Despite generating tons of hype on its pre-release,Monastery Siege is a card that has not seen much play in general. I find this kinda odd because Monastery Siege seems like it can be good on sideboards in multiples because it:
Beware--Monastery Siege does not do a thing to counterspells. It doesn't put taxes on spells your opponents cast that target SPELLS on the stack that you control.
On Khans mode, all Monastery Siege does is loot. I suppose Looting 1 every turn is better than Thassa, God of the Sea's Scry 1 every turn, but M. Siege will never cantrip.
Add in the fact that all it does against Burn is slow it down (and not inflict virtual card disadvantage on them by gaining life), and that might explain why the only deck that I've seen maindeck it is Merfolk. (M. Siege doesn't make Burn's creatures, Grim Lavamancer pings, or Atarka's Commands cost more.)
I suppose Twin gets better mileage out of Spellskite, midrange breakers, cantrips, counterspells, other threats, or removal, even though it looks like a pretty good deck for M. Siege on paper.
Monastery Siege is actually a good 1 of in Grixis delver as of today, for all the reasons you suggest. I personally bring it in against twin, burn, control, and every now and then junk/jund decks since it is very good for 3 mana, plus people are awestruck by it not seeing it coming and also people always love how it activates during draw step for the ability rather than upkeep for the loot. While it doesn't net extra cards drawn after discard, it does feed the delve cards Grixis is using, Tasigur, Angler, and Cut. I find it an all star plus landing it against burn's bulk of the deck cost 2 more, which slows them down amazingly so you can stabilize.
Sadly on turn 3 I don't want to spend my entire turn casting 1 spell that may not net anything worth while.
Turn 3 I want to either cast a 2 drop and keep - pte / bolt / spell snare mana up - or i want to drop a 3 drop that will have some impact - brimaz / mentor / geist of saint traft
when other people are casting bobs and lillis and goyfs it seems very underwhelming
-slows down burn pretty hard. Kor firewalker is better
-Makes counter spells almost useless unless you are playing Tron - no it doesnt
-can be ran in multiples due to having two relevant modes - not an actual plus
-Hard to destroy it via abrupt decay, Disenchant or Destructive Revelry - casting a enchantment on turn 3 that has little impact just because its hard to remove doesnt do much
-feeds delve cards like Tasigur, the golden fang and Murderous cut - we have better things to feed delve - like all the other cheap spells in mtg
Sadly on turn 3 I don't want to spend my entire turn casting 1 spell that may not net anything worth while.
Turn 3 I want to either cast a 2 drop and keep - pte / bolt / spell snare mana up - or i want to drop a 3 drop that will have some impact - brimaz / mentor / geist of saint traft
when other people are casting bobs and lillis and goyfs it seems very underwhelming
-slows down burn pretty hard. Kor firewalker is better
-Makes counter spells almost useless unless you are playing Tron - no it doesnt
-can be ran in multiples due to having two relevant modes - not an actual plus
-Hard to destroy it via abrupt decay, Disenchant or Destructive Revelry - casting a enchantment on turn 3 that has little impact just because its hard to remove doesnt do much
-feeds delve cards like Tasigur, the golden fang and Murderous cut - we have better things to feed delve - like all the other cheap spells in mtg
I don't understand your response whatsoever lol.
"Kor firewalker is better" Of course it is but everyone isn't running W
-Makes counter spells almost useless unless you are playing Tron - no it doesnt
-can be ran in multiples due to having two relevant modes - "not an actual plus" How is it not an actual plus?? Cards like leyline of the sanctity sit in your hand if you have one on the field. This doesn't because you can cast it and use the other mode.
-Hard to destroy it via abrupt decay, Disenchant or Destructive Revelry - "casting a enchantment on turn 3 that has little impact just because its hard to remove doesnt do much." What are you talking about? A burn player will want to kill that thing quickly or they will lose fast.
-feeds delve cards like Tasigur, the golden fang and Murderous cut - "we have better things to feed delve - like all the other cheap spells in mtg" Well yeah we do but this card is a swiss army knife.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
swiss army knives aren't necessarily always the answer. izzet charm is a swiss army knife of good to awesome effects, but most decks that *could* play it currently don't, because the efficiency "premium" to the mana cost on swiss army knives is prohibitive to their actually being good. Also, siege doesn't make burn lose--it slows down the rate at which you are losing the game, and that's a three mana investment you've made that isn't progressing you towards WINNING the game against burn, all it's done is slow down how quickly they're pointing spells at your face. It's an option for decks that don't have white (for kor firewalker or timely reinforcements etc) or green + fatties (for feed the clan). The decks in modern that don't play white or green, are not trying to race burn, and don't reasonably want to mulligan for leyline of sanctity or run batterskull for other reasons: Merfolk, Grixis (control or delver), UB control (not really a thing, but I've seen it tried) and that's it. As was stated above, grixis delver likes one in the board because it's flexible matchup-wise, Merfolk can play them because it's useful against other strategies that want to slot-removal the lords, and UB control (as mentioned) doesn't actually exist in a serious fashion. That's the how and why on monastery siege in modern.
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Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
turn 3 cast monastery siege (you take 2 damage from the Eidolon of the Great Revel) in response they lightning bolt and lightning helix you.
their turn they cast a 3 mana lava spike triggering prowess on the swiftspear and attack you for 6 with the goblin guide + swiftspear + eotgr you take 9 this turn and are dead
Leyline of Sanctity is good because you can play it when it matters before the burn deck has mana and can cast stuff
turn 3 cast monastery siege (you take 2 damage from the Eidolon of the Great Revel) in response they lightning bolt and lightning helix you.
their turn they cast a 3 mana lava spike triggering prowess on the swiftspear and attack you for 6 with the goblin guide + swiftspear + eotgr you take 9 this turn and are dead
Leyline of Sanctity is good because you can play it when it matters before the burn deck has mana and can cast stuff
turn 3 cast monastery siege (you take 2 damage from the Eidolon of the Great Revel) in response they lightning bolt and lightning helix you.
their turn they cast a 3 mana lava spike triggering prowess on the swiftspear and attack you for 6 with the goblin guide + swiftspear + eotgr you take 9 this turn and are dead
Leyline of Sanctity is good because you can play it when it matters before the burn deck has mana and can cast stuff
turn 3 cast monastery siege (you take 2 damage from the Eidolon of the Great Revel) in response they lightning bolt and lightning helix you.
their turn they cast a 3 mana lava spike triggering prowess on the swiftspear and attack you for 6 with the goblin guide + swiftspear + eotgr you take 9 this turn and are dead
Leyline of Sanctity is good because you can play it when it matters before the burn deck has mana and can cast stuff
Wait what? My opponent has swiftspear, goblin guide, and eidolon all in play on turn 3 with 3 open mana up? Was there a Simian Spirit Guide in there somewhere? Most likely this card would actually be a significant speed bump for burn that would allow a control player to survive into the long game where they are just better.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Siege is far more brutal than leyline against burn. I play both merfolk and burn and I can tell you I groan when siege hits as a burn player. The problem for merfolk is all their dorks die and I peck them to death with a guide and swiftspear. When I am stuck casting one spell a turn and remand on a lightning bolt is a time walk I am beyond screwed. Cursecatcher on turn 4 reads counter target spell if siege is out. Then they just play all their lords out and clock me. Does it turn the match up in merfolks favor, no, but it certainly improves the odds. The card is chill against me. One the merfolk side it lets me slow burn and easily out grind abzan decks. The loot effect is extremely powerful when backed up by 8 cantrips(adept and spreading seas).
turn 3 cast monastery siege (you take 2 damage from the Eidolon of the Great Revel) in response they lightning bolt and lightning helix you.
their turn they cast a 3 mana lava spike triggering prowess on the swiftspear and attack you for 6 with the goblin guide + swiftspear + eotgr you take 9 this turn and are dead
Leyline of Sanctity is good because you can play it when it matters before the burn deck has mana and can cast stuff
turn 3 cast monastery siege (you take 2 damage from the Eidolon of the Great Revel) in response they lightning bolt and lightning helix you.
their turn they cast a 3 mana lava spike triggering prowess on the swiftspear and attack you for 6 with the goblin guide + swiftspear + eotgr you take 9 this turn and are dead
Leyline of Sanctity is good because you can play it when it matters before the burn deck has mana and can cast stuff
turn 3 cast monastery siege (you take 2 damage from the Eidolon of the Great Revel) in response they lightning bolt and lightning helix you.
their turn they cast a 3 mana lava spike triggering prowess on the swiftspear and attack you for 6 with the goblin guide + swiftspear + eotgr you take 9 this turn and are dead
Leyline of Sanctity is good because you can play it when it matters before the burn deck has mana and can cast stuff
Wait what? My opponent has swiftspear, goblin guide, and eidolon all in play on turn 3 with 3 open mana up? Was there a Simian Spirit Guide in there somewhere? Most likely this card would actually be a significant speed bump for burn that would allow a control player to survive into the long game where they are just better.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Monastery Siege is a good alternative for Leyline of Sanctity in blue decks. It's become kind of common as a sideboard for Merfolk. The fact that it always trades for equal or more mana makes it alright for a null rod, but it's still a completely reactive card if you put it on dragons.
Siege is far more brutal than leyline against burn. I play both merfolk and burn and I can tell you I groan when siege hits as a burn player. The problem for merfolk is all their dorks die and I peck them to death with a guide and swiftspear. When I am stuck casting one spell a turn and remand on a lightning bolt is a time walk I am beyond screwed. Cursecatcher on turn 4 reads counter target spell if siege is out. Then they just play all their lords out and clock me. Does it turn the match up in merfolks favor, no, but it certainly improves the odds. The card is chill against me. One the merfolk side it lets me slow burn and easily out grind abzan decks. The loot effect is extremely powerful when backed up by 8 cantrips(adept and spreading seas).
Wouldn't destructive revelry (even at 4 mana) make Siege essentially worthless against burn?
If a burn player gets to 4+ lands, (and this isn't always true but in my hundreds of games across my magic career against modern burn it's a trend) usually their hand is slow enough anyway that they are most likely going to lose.
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If a burn player gets to 4+ lands, (and this isn't always true but in my hundreds of games across my magic career against modern burn it's a trend) usually their hand is slow enough anyway that they are most likely going to lose.
This true if they go one land every turn for the first 4 the hand is fairly weak. They are going to have a hard time beating an aggressive deck like merfolk with this. Also one destructive revelry that has to be main phased if you have any cards in hand is extremely poor. It also is 5 mana if I have a single cursecatcher. This means I need to be killing cursecatcher instead of nice targets early.
Even if they went first they still played played 7 mana worth of spells when they would have had at most 6 mana.
To be fair they could have 7 mana is they used an atarka's command, but then that sequence of cards is not what would be cast. So I am agreement with you.
I played the card in cruel control specifically for the burn matchup. It's a strong card but it isn't game over for them. I imagine merfolk gets better mileage because they keep a board presence and I imagine delver might benefit from that as well. In my experience it's a solid speed bump but it's really easy to just cast it on turn 3 and die anyways because they used the window to cast an eidolon and they almost always have 1-2 spells to cast in response to it. 1 spell per turn does a lot to keep them in check, but leyline is usually better so it really comes down to what your burn matchup is like (if you can afford to use 2-3 sideboard slots to fight it) and if you can run leyline instead. Mitigating the diminishing returns is nice, but I would never run it as a draw engine just because I don't think it's worth 3 mana to get that effect.
Siege is far more brutal than leyline against burn. I play both merfolk and burn and I can tell you I groan when siege hits as a burn player. The problem for merfolk is all their dorks die and I peck them to death with a guide and swiftspear. When I am stuck casting one spell a turn and remand on a lightning bolt is a time walk I am beyond screwed. Cursecatcher on turn 4 reads counter target spell if siege is out. Then they just play all their lords out and clock me. Does it turn the match up in merfolks favor, no, but it certainly improves the odds. The card is chill against me. One the merfolk side it lets me slow burn and easily out grind abzan decks. The loot effect is extremely powerful when backed up by 8 cantrips(adept and spreading seas).
Wouldn't destructive revelry (even at 4 mana) make Siege essentially worthless against burn?
You could say that about leyline
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
turn 3 cast monastery siege (you take 2 damage from the Eidolon of the Great Revel) in response they lightning bolt and lightning helix you.
their turn they cast a 3 mana lava spike triggering prowess on the swiftspear and attack you for 6 with the goblin guide + swiftspear + eotgr you take 9 this turn and are dead
Leyline of Sanctity is good because you can play it when it matters before the burn deck has mana and can cast stuff
Wait what? My opponent has swiftspear, goblin guide, and eidolon all in play on turn 3 with 3 open mana up? Was there a Simian Spirit Guide in there somewhere? Most likely this card would actually be a significant speed bump for burn that would allow a control player to survive into the long game where they are just better.
Im assuming the red deck went first
You're assuming a lot of things.
1. burn went first
2. burn has a perfect start
3. burn makes all 4 land drops, really?
4. blue player does nothing the first 2 turns...
the reality is that monastery siege is one of the best blue cards against burn, it's irrelevant that there are better white options.
This is what I'm saying, not everyone has white in their blue decks.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
turn 3 cast monastery siege (you take 2 damage from the Eidolon of the Great Revel) in response they lightning bolt and lightning helix you.
their turn they cast a 3 mana lava spike triggering prowess on the swiftspear and attack you for 6 with the goblin guide + swiftspear + eotgr you take 9 this turn and are dead
Leyline of Sanctity is good because you can play it when it matters before the burn deck has mana and can cast stuff
Wait what? My opponent has swiftspear, goblin guide, and eidolon all in play on turn 3 with 3 open mana up? Was there a Simian Spirit Guide in there somewhere? Most likely this card would actually be a significant speed bump for burn that would allow a control player to survive into the long game where they are just better.
Im assuming the red deck went first
You're assuming a lot of things.
1. burn went first
2. burn has a perfect start
3. burn makes all 4 land drops, really?
4. blue player does nothing the first 2 turns...
the reality is that monastery siege is one of the best blue cards against burn, it's irrelevant that there are better white options.
This is what I'm saying, not everyone has white in their blue decks.
Leyline of Sanctity can be cheated out of your opening hand on Turns 0-1 (depending on when you define the start of the game), so even if you're on BUG, you can use Leyline of Sanctity.
It's not a question of whether you have white in your blue deck--it's a question about whether you're willing to spend 3-4 sideboard slots on a card you NEED in your opening hand.
Wait what? My opponent has swiftspear, goblin guide, and eidolon all in play on turn 3 with 3 open mana up? Was there a Simian Spirit Guide in there somewhere? Most likely this card would actually be a significant speed bump for burn that would allow a control player to survive into the long game where they are just better.
Im assuming the red deck went first
You're assuming a lot of things.
1. burn went first
2. burn has a perfect start
3. burn makes all 4 land drops, really?
4. blue player does nothing the first 2 turns...
the reality is that monastery siege is one of the best blue cards against burn, it's irrelevant that there are better white options.
This is what I'm saying, not everyone has white in their blue decks.
Leyline of Sanctity can be cheated out of your opening hand on Turns 0-1 (depending on when you define the start of the game), so even if you're on BUG, you can use Leyline of Sanctity.
It's not a question of whether you have white in your blue deck--it's a question about whether you're willing to spend 3-4 sideboard slots on a card you NEED in your opening hand.
And when you are on decks like merfolk or grixis delver, you need those extra spaces for other matchups and don't want to draw those dead, where siege is overall better for those decks. I play grixis delver and siege has saved me multiple times thanks to dragons. the khans side also was helpful against the mirror so i can cast tasigur and grumag angler easier. Siege is much more versatile than the leyline in blue decks
-slows down decks with removal in them
-Hard to destroy it via abrupt decay, Disenchant or Destructive Revelry
-slows down burn pretty hard.
-Makes counter spells almost useless unless you are playing Tron
-can be ran in multiples due to having two relevant modes
-feeds delve cards like Tasigur, the golden fang and Murderous cut
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
On Khans mode, all Monastery Siege does is loot. I suppose Looting 1 every turn is better than Thassa, God of the Sea's Scry 1 every turn, but M. Siege will never cantrip.
Add in the fact that all it does against Burn is slow it down (and not inflict virtual card disadvantage on them by gaining life), and that might explain why the only deck that I've seen maindeck it is Merfolk. (M. Siege doesn't make Burn's creatures, Grim Lavamancer pings, or Atarka's Commands cost more.)
I suppose Twin gets better mileage out of Spellskite, midrange breakers, cantrips, counterspells, other threats, or removal, even though it looks like a pretty good deck for M. Siege on paper.
On my tombstone, please write "Now his body fuels the Treasure Cruise"
Or you could Kommand him back...
Check out my Youtube Page for online Magic Content!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcq-a5rTSNclFCS2o4_lVFw
Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
Turn 3 I want to either cast a 2 drop and keep - pte / bolt / spell snare mana up - or i want to drop a 3 drop that will have some impact - brimaz / mentor / geist of saint traft
when other people are casting bobs and lillis and goyfs it seems very underwhelming
-slows down burn pretty hard. Kor firewalker is better
-Makes counter spells almost useless unless you are playing Tron - no it doesnt
-can be ran in multiples due to having two relevant modes - not an actual plus
-Hard to destroy it via abrupt decay, Disenchant or Destructive Revelry - casting a enchantment on turn 3 that has little impact just because its hard to remove doesnt do much
-feeds delve cards like Tasigur, the golden fang and Murderous cut - we have better things to feed delve - like all the other cheap spells in mtg
I don't understand your response whatsoever lol.
"Kor firewalker is better" Of course it is but everyone isn't running W
-Makes counter spells almost useless unless you are playing Tron - no it doesnt
-can be ran in multiples due to having two relevant modes - "not an actual plus" How is it not an actual plus?? Cards like leyline of the sanctity sit in your hand if you have one on the field. This doesn't because you can cast it and use the other mode.
-Hard to destroy it via abrupt decay, Disenchant or Destructive Revelry - "casting a enchantment on turn 3 that has little impact just because its hard to remove doesnt do much." What are you talking about? A burn player will want to kill that thing quickly or they will lose fast.
-feeds delve cards like Tasigur, the golden fang and Murderous cut - "we have better things to feed delve - like all the other cheap spells in mtg" Well yeah we do but this card is a swiss army knife.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
turn 3 cast monastery siege (you take 2 damage from the Eidolon of the Great Revel) in response they lightning bolt and lightning helix you.
their turn they cast a 3 mana lava spike triggering prowess on the swiftspear and attack you for 6 with the goblin guide + swiftspear + eotgr you take 9 this turn and are dead
Leyline of Sanctity is good because you can play it when it matters before the burn deck has mana and can cast stuff
Wait what? My opponent has swiftspear, goblin guide, and eidolon all in play on turn 3 with 3 open mana up? Was there a Simian Spirit Guide in there somewhere? Most likely this card would actually be a significant speed bump for burn that would allow a control player to survive into the long game where they are just better.
Im assuming the red deck went first
Wouldn't destructive revelry (even at 4 mana) make Siege essentially worthless against burn?
This true if they go one land every turn for the first 4 the hand is fairly weak. They are going to have a hard time beating an aggressive deck like merfolk with this. Also one destructive revelry that has to be main phased if you have any cards in hand is extremely poor. It also is 5 mana if I have a single cursecatcher. This means I need to be killing cursecatcher instead of nice targets early.
To be fair they could have 7 mana is they used an atarka's command, but then that sequence of cards is not what would be cast. So I am agreement with you.
WURMiraclesRWU
UBRCruel ControlRBU
If you're having fun, I'm not.
You could say that about leyline
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
This is what I'm saying, not everyone has white in their blue decks.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Leyline of Sanctity can be cheated out of your opening hand on Turns 0-1 (depending on when you define the start of the game), so even if you're on BUG, you can use Leyline of Sanctity.
It's not a question of whether you have white in your blue deck--it's a question about whether you're willing to spend 3-4 sideboard slots on a card you NEED in your opening hand.
And when you are on decks like merfolk or grixis delver, you need those extra spaces for other matchups and don't want to draw those dead, where siege is overall better for those decks. I play grixis delver and siege has saved me multiple times thanks to dragons. the khans side also was helpful against the mirror so i can cast tasigur and grumag angler easier. Siege is much more versatile than the leyline in blue decks
On my tombstone, please write "Now his body fuels the Treasure Cruise"
Or you could Kommand him back...
Check out my Youtube Page for online Magic Content!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcq-a5rTSNclFCS2o4_lVFw
Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.