Did you read the 2nd paragraph? What deck does it "stop in its tracks?" Infect, Burn, Twin, Junk Midrange? No, maybe Scapeshift, Bogles, UWR, Grixis Delver?
Like I said, it's a decent card. Backed up by removal, discard, and board control, it can do some work. Just hope that you have Slaughter Pact when you tap out for it on turn 4.
(I guess technically, it may beat Mono Green Aggro or Mono Black Aggro if such decks exist in your meta. I personally have never seen them at my LGS.)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Did you read the 2nd paragraph? What deck does it "stop in its tracks?" Infect, Burn, Twin, Junk Midrange? No, maybe Scapeshift, Bogles, UWR, Grixis Delver?
Like I said, it's a decent card. Backed up by removal, discard, and board control, it can do some work. Just hope that you have Slaughter Pact when you tap out for it on turn 4.
(I guess technically, it may beat Mono Green Aggro or Mono Black Aggro if such decks exist in your meta. I personally have never seen them at my LGS.)
The Obliterator is the only card that can face off an opposing board with Tasigur, Siege Rhinos singularly and stall the board (the moat effect) Furthermore, I feel that people often take the 5-of power of the Obliterator a lot more lightly than they should - it effectively means that the Obliterator will always make a head on battle for other midrange fatties a dead preposition (well, unless you are almost dead), accelerating the race clock (when it beats) and turn the entire context of the battlefield-mathematics on its head.
You can say however you want about how easy it is to remove the obliterator - the fact is, once you cast it, the opponent better have that removal in hand.
Oh and btw, tapping out on the 4th turn depends entirely on the potential deck you are facing - your argument can apply to Siege Rhinos or any 3 or 4 mana spell a deck can play on his or her 4th turn.
The fact that it dodges bolt and decay is definitely relevant. Having no ETB effect is certainly more of a detriment than the casting cost though. I can assure you, if a card with identical casting cost made an immediate board impact, players would find a way to run it.
Phyrexian Obetterator BBBB
Creature - Horror (M)
Trample
When ~ comes into play, each player sacrifices 3 Permanents.
5/5
Now that would certainly make the cut. Even if they path it in response to the trigger, it still had a board impact.
I play with Obliterator all the time, and I feel like there are some poor arguments being made against him. Dies to removal, not damaged based leaving path and dismember, which also kills most 4 drops. Can be countered, as can everything but lands. When playing with Obliterator you are playing with discard, spot removal and Lily. If you can't clear the way for Obliterator then you are doing something wrong.
He is a monster of a threat and gums up the board when he hits. If you have the mana base to cast him with reliability, I would give him a shot. He is one of the grinds-est cards out there for an attrition war, and forces people to try to swing with more than lethal before they really should. People may not like BG devotion, but I have yet to loose after casting him in a 1v1 match with that deck.
I play with Obliterator all the time, and I feel like there are some poor arguments being made against him. Dies to removal, not damaged based leaving path and dismember, which also kills most 4 drops. Can be countered, as can everything but lands. When playing with Obliterator you are playing with discard, spot removal and Lily. If you can't clear the way for Obliterator then you are doing something wrong.
He is a monster of a threat and gums up the board when he hits. If you have the mana base to cast him with reliability, I would give him a shot. He is one of the grinds-est cards out there for an attrition war, and forces people to try to swing with more than lethal before they really should. People may not like BG devotion, but I have yet to loose after casting him in a 1v1 match with that deck.
It's mostly the price issue. You don't need to pay 100 bucks to get a playset of 5/5s that attract removal like poo attracts flies.
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Meh, cost really shouldn't come up when evaluating cards. That's a budget discussion and not an evaluation one. Obliterator's cmc balances him very well, and has to be exiled or discarded to keep him off of the field. He is one of the best blockers in the format, and is game changing when you choose to attack with him. While he isn't good out side of heavy black decks, in those decks he is king.
Honestly if his price tag is an issue it's kinda a bad idea to be playing black. With Thoughtseize, Dark Confidant, and Liliana of the Veil, black is one of the more expensive colors for modern.
People are putting way too much value on Obliterator. Fly over him or use other evasion. If he turns off your damage based removal against your red deck and your opponent tries to get cute and fight you, just aim the removal at your own guy and downgrade their 3 for 1 into a 2 for 1.
Green can't deal with it? I suppose that's true but how often are you playing against mono green? And even if you are I bet someone with the balls to rock mono green also has the balls to mainboard Acidic Slime which trades with Obliterator (you each lose 2 cards), or worse they Hornet Queen and laugh if they can afford for 4 damage to trample through.
Plus, if the curve in your deck is good you get to a point where you can pretty safely sacrifice some lands to the punisher effect. If the game goes to say turn 15, who cares if you have to sacrifice a few land drops and some 2/2's? That's the opposite of a card that grinds out advantage, the advantage he generates gets smaller and smaller the longer the game goes on.
The game ends pretty quickly once he is landed. He is a card that can turn a game around, or put a way an opponent in a close match. If you land an obliterator turns 4-5 there is really no good reason you should have ever gotten to turn 15. Being in black also helps shore up some of Obliterators weakness. Odds are, if you are that deep into black you have a supporting cast of removal and discard to support him, in which case you'll not likely have your flier if I can help it. I'll also try to put you into Hellbent as soon as possible to further limit your choices. This is just how he should be played IMO.
Again, he is great in a mono black, or Bx deck with the x being fairly light. At four mana his only real competition is Abyssal Persecutor and Desecration Demon. The demon is terrible against decks that can keep him tapped, and I feel that Obliterator puts the opponent in a worse situation than a Persecutor does.
The game can end quickly, but if the only value is that he's a 5/5 unblockable, it isn't outstanding; siege rhino can out race him in most scenarios. If he's acting as a moat, his value wanes each turn. You don't have enough generic answers in mono/heavy black to justify playing him over a similar deck with more flexible mana. And while discard is great, you can't stop the top of their deck, so having some value if they draw a kill spell is important.
I'm going to compare an obliterator deck to junk for the reason that it's one of the only decks with as much removal and discard as the average obliterator deck and likely the deck you are forgoing to play obliterator (all GBx shells are basically the same so the difference between junk, jund, etc are negligible)
Let's look at red since that's where he probably shines the most against removal. You're tapping out turn 4 for him, even if they play only basics, junk can still struggle to keep up with burn because of how explosive they can be in the early turns. You play an obliterator and if they have a second creature and/or more burn in hand, they can still just burn you out and their draw steps are usually still better than yours if you try to keep him back to block since you can't really race them very well if they have creatures. You would rather have the padding from siege rhino there than a moat that might not even work.
Against mono green, even discounting the dismembers they probably play, their deck is still built to overwhelm you with permanents, saccing 5 doesn't slow them down a whole lot and if they can attack through it and deal lethal, it doesn't matter what his trigger does after the fact and racing them seems very unlikely.
In both of these scenarios, you probably weren't in a great position to begin with regardless of your 4 drop, but my point is that the difference between obliterator and other 4 drops didn't matter a whole lot. If either deck was in a spot where obliterator stopped them cold, they were probably in a bad spot and would have lost anyways, but the restrictions you put on your colors hurts your other matchups, making the deck weaker as a whole and there will still be times when the immediate impact matters more, where other 4 drops would be better.
Phyrexian Obliterator is the only reason to play a dedicated black deck. In reviewing Tier 1 and 2 decks in MTGSalvation, there isn't a single deck that is more than 50% black. If you want to leap that hurdle, I think you can only do so by holding hands with this monstrosity.
There is a lot of talk about how you have to run him in a mono deck. You don't. If you use complementary colors: Red or Blue, you can do a near painless mana base and have all of your lands produce black (only 1 of my lands doesn't give me black). When you compare him to Siege Rhino (perhaps the most common comparison in this thread), you have to do so against the backdrop of the other 56 cards in the deck. Unanswered, Obliterator wins a game. Thusly, the next question is: how do you make him unanswerable? Easy. Discard. And, lots of it. With a "power discard suite" of (8) 2-for-1 discard spells (wrench mind and blightning) your opponent can be left reeling. That's when you gas up a tank.
FaustJ has it down. Obliterator acting like a moat will stabilize you, and put you into a position that you can win from. If he lands it's only a matter of time. When combined with 6 discard+ 6 removal+ Liliana you have a potent way to control the game. 8 rack often says "Control the hand, control the game", Obliterator gives you the outlet to finish the game you are controlling. He is above the curve, has trample, "can't" be burned out effectively, and has a form of evasion that doubles as land death/creature removal/planeswalker kill/enchantment removal/artifact destruction. He is made for a black based midrange deck.
On an even board you can't attack into him. Stalling out attackers is a great way for a black deck to slowly amass removal, discard spells, and other powerful spells, making a slight disadvantage into a large one. Just about any time you block an Obliterator, or attack into him, it ends in a 2 for 1 or worse. With black already trying to win the card quality war, falling behind in the card advantage war is huge.
Obliterator has his downsides. BBBB is the biggest one. But if your deck can reliably cast him, and you are a midrange deck, it's hard to find a better four drop. RE thinking my previous statement about competition for him, I forgot to add Tasigur. I would say he is the biggest competition for Obliterator, being easier to cast, nearly the same size, and with a decent ability to go along with it. But he comes along with a weakness to gravehate and a deck that wants to dump things in the grave quickly to get max advantage out of him. Like Tas, Obliterator requires several building requirements, though Obliterators are a bit harder to hit. If you can meet them, try him out, in midrange, tempo, and control matchups, he shines, but falls short in combo games. I actually like him against aggro decks like zoo. Creature based aggro just stalls against this guy.
@Faust that's a fair argument. The reason I had been comparing him to rhino is because it's the closest analogue as a 4-drop endgame clock. I'll concede to the counter arguments on the matchup analyses, I had mentioned red because people had been talking about his resilience to removal when he's only really resistant to damage-based removal. My point on his effectiveness as a moat was that they can eventually play enough lands that saccing 5 of them doesn't matter and decks like tron and affinity (which admittedly are fairly bad matchups anyways) can pretty much ignore it.
The main point I will stick with though is that the costs to playing him outweigh the benefits. Having access to hosers is crucial for a midrange deck right now and you give a lot of those up for the ability to cast obliterator. Personally I love the card and if the meta ever shifted to make white-based hosers less necessary (and twilight mires stopped being $35-40 each), I would definitely give him a shot, but for the moment I don't feel like that's the case. He does seem very powerful in midrange and tempo dominated metagames, but I'm honestly having some trouble thinking of decks that are hurt more by him than by other black based decks with more versatility. Company and mono green are the only main ones that come to mind, and I personally haven't seen much in the way of mono green lately.
What hasn't been mentioned already is the synergy with fight cards. In a meta where every deck had creatures out consistently, that could be a very good strategy. It does nothing against creature light decks though, which means it's not competitive.
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Phyrexian Obliterator is the answer to The Riddle of The Walking Wall. So it has been asked:
What If......You could play Ensnaring Bridge, but it cost 4 instead of 3? The advantage: You can keep as many cards in your hand as you want. The disadvantage: You can still be attacked from the air, and from unblockable creatures.
Not good enough.
O.K. What if you can also attack with this new bridge, and it's a 5/5. Interested?
Not there yet.
I'll add trample.
Getting Closer.
Hmmm, how about for every point of damage that this new bridge receives from an opponent, that opponent must sac that number of permanents?
Terrific - Sold!
Just sign here, and you can take home your new Phyrexian Obliterator today!
I'm atleast glad that people are considering this card. Personally I would run him as a 2 of in some kind of sultai control deck if I had the cards/$$$
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I don't have any experience with the card, but can someone tell me why you would need to run him Mono B, and not Bgx or similar?
I mean, I can understand why he wouldn't go into BGx, Abzan or Jund, but I don't see why you couldn't play him in a deck still splashing another color as long as most of your lands produce black (Not even talking about Urborgurg).
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
I don't have any experience with the card, but can someone tell me why you would need to run him Mono B, and not Bgx or similar?
I mean, I can understand why he wouldn't go into BGx, Abzan or Jund, but I don't see why you couldn't play him in a deck still splashing another color as long as most of your lands produce black (Not even talking about Urborgurg).
Who said that would have to be the case?
BG Obliterator Rock is in fact the only shell I know of where it was played with any kind of success.
Even made Top 16 at the last SCG Modern IQ.
Obliterator is a great card but can be easily removed. I can remove him with Typhoid or Rancid Rats. Deals only one damage, kills him and I only lose one permanent. On the other hand if I am playing him and he is sent to the graveyard I can bring him directly back to the battlefield with Obzadat's Aid or if exiled, with Pull From Eternity with my BW deck. I love the look on my opponents face when I return him to the battlefield with Obzadat's Aid.
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Phyrexian Obliterator, Hangarback Walkers, Spellskite, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Bitter Blossom, Phyrexian Obliterator, Read the Bones, one sword of fire and ice and a batterskull and the usual suspecks in hand disruption and creature removal. He did supricingly well. Spellskyte sure makes Obliterator better.
He beat my homebrew UW spirist (stil in a janky state) but also my black red eldrazi (a legit deck) and jeff hooglands kiki chord (also a legit deck). No sideboard game sthough. But he has about 50/50 winnrate.
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Like I said, it's a decent card. Backed up by removal, discard, and board control, it can do some work. Just hope that you have Slaughter Pact when you tap out for it on turn 4.
(I guess technically, it may beat Mono Green Aggro or Mono Black Aggro if such decks exist in your meta. I personally have never seen them at my LGS.)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)25¢ vs. $25. Oh, and Angler is ever so much easier to cast!
OK, yeah, trample and essentially unblockable, but they still die to the same removal.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Rest in Peace, Lightning Bolt + Snapcaster Mage flashing back Lightning Bolt. All random ways off the top of my head in which Phyrexian Obliterator does not "die to the same removal" if that is how you would like to put it.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
The Obliterator is the only card that can face off an opposing board with Tasigur, Siege Rhinos singularly and stall the board (the moat effect) Furthermore, I feel that people often take the 5-of power of the Obliterator a lot more lightly than they should - it effectively means that the Obliterator will always make a head on battle for other midrange fatties a dead preposition (well, unless you are almost dead), accelerating the race clock (when it beats) and turn the entire context of the battlefield-mathematics on its head.
You can say however you want about how easy it is to remove the obliterator - the fact is, once you cast it, the opponent better have that removal in hand.
Oh and btw, tapping out on the 4th turn depends entirely on the potential deck you are facing - your argument can apply to Siege Rhinos or any 3 or 4 mana spell a deck can play on his or her 4th turn.
Phyrexian Obetterator BBBB
Creature - Horror (M)
Trample
When ~ comes into play, each player sacrifices 3 Permanents.
5/5
Now that would certainly make the cut. Even if they path it in response to the trigger, it still had a board impact.
Draft My Cube!
He is a monster of a threat and gums up the board when he hits. If you have the mana base to cast him with reliability, I would give him a shot. He is one of the grinds-est cards out there for an attrition war, and forces people to try to swing with more than lethal before they really should. People may not like BG devotion, but I have yet to loose after casting him in a 1v1 match with that deck.
Cheeri0sXWU
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It's mostly the price issue. You don't need to pay 100 bucks to get a playset of 5/5s that attract removal like poo attracts flies.
BWR THE ARISTAHCRATZ!
Honestly if his price tag is an issue it's kinda a bad idea to be playing black. With Thoughtseize, Dark Confidant, and Liliana of the Veil, black is one of the more expensive colors for modern.
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Green can't deal with it? I suppose that's true but how often are you playing against mono green? And even if you are I bet someone with the balls to rock mono green also has the balls to mainboard Acidic Slime which trades with Obliterator (you each lose 2 cards), or worse they Hornet Queen and laugh if they can afford for 4 damage to trample through.
Plus, if the curve in your deck is good you get to a point where you can pretty safely sacrifice some lands to the punisher effect. If the game goes to say turn 15, who cares if you have to sacrifice a few land drops and some 2/2's? That's the opposite of a card that grinds out advantage, the advantage he generates gets smaller and smaller the longer the game goes on.
Again, he is great in a mono black, or Bx deck with the x being fairly light. At four mana his only real competition is Abyssal Persecutor and Desecration Demon. The demon is terrible against decks that can keep him tapped, and I feel that Obliterator puts the opponent in a worse situation than a Persecutor does.
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I'm going to compare an obliterator deck to junk for the reason that it's one of the only decks with as much removal and discard as the average obliterator deck and likely the deck you are forgoing to play obliterator (all GBx shells are basically the same so the difference between junk, jund, etc are negligible)
Let's look at red since that's where he probably shines the most against removal. You're tapping out turn 4 for him, even if they play only basics, junk can still struggle to keep up with burn because of how explosive they can be in the early turns. You play an obliterator and if they have a second creature and/or more burn in hand, they can still just burn you out and their draw steps are usually still better than yours if you try to keep him back to block since you can't really race them very well if they have creatures. You would rather have the padding from siege rhino there than a moat that might not even work.
Against mono green, even discounting the dismembers they probably play, their deck is still built to overwhelm you with permanents, saccing 5 doesn't slow them down a whole lot and if they can attack through it and deal lethal, it doesn't matter what his trigger does after the fact and racing them seems very unlikely.
In both of these scenarios, you probably weren't in a great position to begin with regardless of your 4 drop, but my point is that the difference between obliterator and other 4 drops didn't matter a whole lot. If either deck was in a spot where obliterator stopped them cold, they were probably in a bad spot and would have lost anyways, but the restrictions you put on your colors hurts your other matchups, making the deck weaker as a whole and there will still be times when the immediate impact matters more, where other 4 drops would be better.
WURMiraclesRWU
UBRCruel ControlRBU
If you're having fun, I'm not.
I host a thread that centers around Obliterator called Blitzkrieg. http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/601240-blitzkrieg-b-r-shock-and-awesome He is my tank. My panzer. And, he does quite well. I've got (4) 1st place paper finishes and a top-16 in Mass States hosted by SCG.
There is a lot of talk about how you have to run him in a mono deck. You don't. If you use complementary colors: Red or Blue, you can do a near painless mana base and have all of your lands produce black (only 1 of my lands doesn't give me black). When you compare him to Siege Rhino (perhaps the most common comparison in this thread), you have to do so against the backdrop of the other 56 cards in the deck. Unanswered, Obliterator wins a game. Thusly, the next question is: how do you make him unanswerable? Easy. Discard. And, lots of it. With a "power discard suite" of (8) 2-for-1 discard spells (wrench mind and blightning) your opponent can be left reeling. That's when you gas up a tank.
Stewie's Sexy Panzer Party
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Batterskull
1 Geralf's Messenger
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Terminate
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Shrieking Affliction
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Blightning
4 Wrench Mind
2 Thoughtseize
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Night's Whisper
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Slaughter Pact
2 Pharika's Cure
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Nyxathid
1 Dreadbore
1 Drown in Sorrow
1 Outpost Siege
1 Damnation
1 Sowing Salt
On an even board you can't attack into him. Stalling out attackers is a great way for a black deck to slowly amass removal, discard spells, and other powerful spells, making a slight disadvantage into a large one. Just about any time you block an Obliterator, or attack into him, it ends in a 2 for 1 or worse. With black already trying to win the card quality war, falling behind in the card advantage war is huge.
Obliterator has his downsides. BBBB is the biggest one. But if your deck can reliably cast him, and you are a midrange deck, it's hard to find a better four drop. RE thinking my previous statement about competition for him, I forgot to add Tasigur. I would say he is the biggest competition for Obliterator, being easier to cast, nearly the same size, and with a decent ability to go along with it. But he comes along with a weakness to gravehate and a deck that wants to dump things in the grave quickly to get max advantage out of him. Like Tas, Obliterator requires several building requirements, though Obliterators are a bit harder to hit. If you can meet them, try him out, in midrange, tempo, and control matchups, he shines, but falls short in combo games. I actually like him against aggro decks like zoo. Creature based aggro just stalls against this guy.
Cheeri0sXWU
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Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
The main point I will stick with though is that the costs to playing him outweigh the benefits. Having access to hosers is crucial for a midrange deck right now and you give a lot of those up for the ability to cast obliterator. Personally I love the card and if the meta ever shifted to make white-based hosers less necessary (and twilight mires stopped being $35-40 each), I would definitely give him a shot, but for the moment I don't feel like that's the case. He does seem very powerful in midrange and tempo dominated metagames, but I'm honestly having some trouble thinking of decks that are hurt more by him than by other black based decks with more versatility. Company and mono green are the only main ones that come to mind, and I personally haven't seen much in the way of mono green lately.
WURMiraclesRWU
UBRCruel ControlRBU
If you're having fun, I'm not.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
So it has been asked:
What If......You could play Ensnaring Bridge, but it cost 4 instead of 3?
The advantage: You can keep as many cards in your hand as you want.
The disadvantage: You can still be attacked from the air, and from unblockable creatures.
Not good enough.
O.K. What if you can also attack with this new bridge, and it's a 5/5. Interested?
Not there yet.
I'll add trample.
Getting Closer.
Hmmm, how about for every point of damage that this new bridge receives from an opponent, that opponent must sac that number of permanents?
Terrific - Sold!
Just sign here, and you can take home your new Phyrexian Obliterator today!
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I mean, I can understand why he wouldn't go into BGx, Abzan or Jund, but I don't see why you couldn't play him in a deck still splashing another color as long as most of your lands produce black (Not even talking about Urborgurg).
Who said that would have to be the case?
BG Obliterator Rock is in fact the only shell I know of where it was played with any kind of success.
Even made Top 16 at the last SCG Modern IQ.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Because Obzedat's Aid and Pull From Eternity are unplayable jank for Modern.
Phyrexian Obliterator, Hangarback Walkers, Spellskite, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Bitter Blossom, Phyrexian Obliterator, Read the Bones, one sword of fire and ice and a batterskull and the usual suspecks in hand disruption and creature removal. He did supricingly well. Spellskyte sure makes Obliterator better.
He beat my homebrew UW spirist (stil in a janky state) but also my black red eldrazi (a legit deck) and jeff hooglands kiki chord (also a legit deck). No sideboard game sthough. But he has about 50/50 winnrate.