Does troll include anyone who disagrees with you? Because I honestly don't think shocking yourself is as big of a drawback as people make it out to be, when you can fix your manabase however you want.
If it was so big of a drawback, you'd see a lot more simplistic manabases which simply don't exist in modern.
If it wouldn't be a drawback, Burn wouldn't be a Tier 1 deck
You don't give Burn enough credit. It has a lot of powerful tools and lots of anti-hate. Don't act like the deck can't easily crush a mono colored deck.
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Does troll include anyone who disagrees with you? Because I honestly don't think shocking yourself is as big of a drawback as people make it out to be, when you can fix your manabase however you want.
If it was so big of a drawback, you'd see a lot more simplistic manabases which simply don't exist in modern.
Sorry, I happen to think that twin, RG tron, infect, boggles, and a number of other 2 color decks with possibly a minor splash or very minimal color requirements--are not casual magic as you say. I also like how you claim there is no drawback to 5 color. Others mention uncounterable lands that tap to destroy ALL non-basics for 1 or zero mana...all statements which can only be a joke.
Hukos, there are a lot of people who spend more time in this forum than actually playing modern and mistake it for knowledge and experience. When you've been playing longer you'll also know when to spot it.
Do you know what I think would be fair? Encroaching Wastes for two mana less. Right now we have Tectonic Edge and Ghost Quarter. The problem with Ghost Quarter is that in fair matchups, using it functionally tempos you out of the game. Unless you're already playing a tempo deck(like delver or infect) or you're playing a deck that just doesn't care about tempo as long as they can get a land of the table(like tron or martyr proc) this is a bad card because it sets you way too far behind. Tectonic Edge on the other hand has a restriction where you can't use it until your opponent has 4 or more lands which makes it functionally useless against decks that can do everything important with only 3 lands such as burn, delver, fish, infect and tron. I can't tell you how many times I wished I could tec edge an inkmoth on turn 3, or how many times i have a tec edge in my opening hand against tron but knew i couldn't actually stop them from assembling it because tec edge is only active the turn after tron is assembled at the earliest. I would just like the ability to deal with these problem lands as early as my third turn rather than my opponents 4th without getting myself blown out by my own lands.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
I'll see your argument and raise you one: If burn was such a deterrent then why are there so many greedy mana bases?
Because that's the only way you can play a "fair" game of magic in modern and there's a lot of people that enjoy playing fair magic? If you're not playing at least three colors with utility lands, Junk WILL crush you. That's not even up for debate. I mean, Junk will probably crush you anyway since you're trying to play a fair game of magic and you're not in BGW colors (which is kind of a mistake, if you ask me).
Sorry, I happen to think that twin, RG tron, infect, boggles, and a number of other 2 color decks with possibly a minor splash or very minimal color requirements--are not casual magic as you say. I also like how you claim there is no drawback to 5 color. Others mention uncounterable lands that tap to destroy ALL non-basics for 1 or zero mana...all statements which can only be a joke.
You honestly can't act like Twin is like every other deck in modern. Here's a thought experiment. Take Twin, remove the combo pre-board, and replace the combo creatures with noncombo creatures. That deck gets crushed by most of the field. Like, its not even close. The combo is what allows Twin to leverage its insane tempo advantage on the field. Yes, I'm aware Twin normally boards out the combo but the issue with that is that if you aggressively play twin in postboarded games as if they don't have the combo, you run the risk of getting blown out assuming they do have it.
Tron, Infect and Boggles are also playing very linear, noninteractive magic. Its not really comparable to what I'm talking about.
If you make a two color "fair" deck, you're going to get a ton of people telling you its going to be terrible until you start running a ton of utility lands, a third color and a bunch of other greedy stuff. And they're correct. But the problem is that even with that, you're trying to play the fair game better than Junk and that's just not possible by any objective measure. And I've made two color fair decks before in modern. They're all pretty awful, without exception.
Hukos, there are a lot of people who spend more time in this forum than actually playing modern and mistake it for knowledge and experience. When you've been playing longer you'll also know when to spot it.
I interpret this as "Anyone who disagrees with me is automatically wrong and can't ever be playing modern because they disagree with me and I'm never ever wrong under any circumstances." Which to that effect, tantamount to nothing more than an echo chamber and that accomplishes nothing useful.
Because that's the only way you can play a "fair" game of magic in modern and there's a lot of people that enjoy playing fair magic? If you're not playing at least three colors with utility lands, Junk WILL crush you. That's not even up for debate. I mean, Junk will probably crush you anyway since you're trying to play a fair game of magic and you're not in BGW colors (which is kind of a mistake, if you ask me).
I don't feel like this is the case. It's been my experience with Mono Black Devotion, a 24swamps.dec, that i'm MORE likely to win than my junk opponents. My match up against unfair or linear decks like burn, storm and affinity aren't as good as I would like them to be.
Again, the comment was that shock land mana bases weren't very good because burn was Tier 1, and I was asserting that if it was a strong enough deterrent to greedy mana bases, then why are there still greedy mana bases?
Faster Tec Edge V1.0 Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool. 1, T, Sacrifice Faster Tec Edge V1.0: Destroy target nonbasic land. Activate this ability only if an opponent controls three or more lands.
Now you can actually fight turn 4 Twin combos. And you can fight greedy 3+ color mana bases.
However, the problem with this card is that you can get 2 of these out and drop your opponent down to 1 land, now we're in non interactive kill you with stupid Delver/Tarmogoyf territory. This card would also push modern to play more 1,2,3 drops, and less 4+ drops which I personally think is lame. But I think the real problem is the fast linear decks making the format fast, not potentially faster Tec edges.
We could also try adding a minor benefit to your opponent. Faster Tec Edge V2.0 Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool. 1, T, Sacrifice Faster Tec Edge V2.0: Destroy target nonbasic land. Activate this ability only if an opponent controls three or more lands. Your opponent may scry 1.
What would a Rishadan Port variant that could only tap nonbasic lands do?
Probably not enough. Port also does not stop the player from using instant speed affects, and fetches. Port would probably find it's home in a death & taxes variant. A normal port would probably be fine, but it's not the kind of effect I suspect wizards wants in standard.
What would a Rishadan Port variant that could only tap nonbasic lands do?
"Very little" is my guess. The only decks that play Port in Legacy are Lands, Goblins and D&T. Lands and Goblins are missing too many cards to be ported (no pun intended) to Modern. D&T in Modern relies on Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor to combo with Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile. If you want to play Port in D&T, then you have to cut either Tectonic Edge (in the mono-white version) or Gavony Township (in GW).
To be honest I don't think even the actual Rishadan Port will have much of an impact in Modern.
As much as I would love to play wasteland in modern it's not a good idea for the format.
What are you talking about one and two color decks can't make it?
U/R twin, 8 Rack, U/R Storm, Hate Bears, G/W Aggro, Boggles, Mono U Tron, G/R Tron, RDW, Merfolk, all are competitive. As a matter of fact a two color deck has won the majority of high level modern competitions. U/R Twin.
The current meta just needs to be shook up a bit and one or more of these strategies will become prevalent again.
Edit*** by the way against those overly greedy mana bases we do basically have Strip Mine , in ghost quarter. Particularly when used in hate bears with path.
As much as I would love to play wasteland in modern it's not a good idea for the format.
What are you talking about one and two color decks can't make it?
U/R twin, 8 Rack, U/R Storm, Hate Bears, G/W Aggro, Boggles, Mono U Tron, G/R Tron, RDW, Merfolk, all are competitive. As a matter of fact a two color deck has won the majority of high level modern competitions. U/R Twin.
The current meta just needs to be shook up a bit and one or more of these strategies will become prevalent again.
Edit*** by the way against those overly greedy mana bases we do basically have Strip Mine , in ghost quarter. Particularly when used in hate bears with path.
When you see a three color deck splash a 4th you know manabases are greedy. Heck even burn is pretty much three color these days they splash green for Destructive Revelry, and Atarka's Command.
Wasteland is probably too good with the current power of modern. As modern grows stronger as a format, I could see the card being fine. Honestly
I think this would be what I would go for
Modern Wasteland
Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool. 2, T Sacrifice Modern Wasteland: Destroy Target non-basic Land.
What would you accomplish? Other than bringing land destruction back to competitive play?
And does anyone actually want that?
Seriously ghost quarter, tectonic edge, encroaching waste, beast within, blood moon, Leonin arbiter, shadow of doubt, Aven mindcensor, spreading seas, all do a pretty good job of messing up a greedy mana base. You even have something in pretty well every color plus utility lands that are colorless.
Edit*** let's not forget that life from the loam is in modern, so any land that is more effective at destroying lands will be broken very quickly by a loam deck.
Modern Wasteland
Land
: Add 1 to your mana pool. G, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land. R, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land. W, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land. B, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land. U, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land.
What is the point of all the other colors its pretty much 1, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land. Colorless mana can't be used to active this ability. Honestly, that draw back doesn't matter 99% of the time. It's probably a a little too aggressive currently. I think 2 mana no stipulations on requiring colored mana are fine.
Modern Wasteland
Land T: Add 1 to your mana pool. 2, T Sacrifice Modern Wasteland: Destroy Target non-basic Land.
What would you accomplish? Other than bringing land destruction back to competitive play?
And does anyone actually want that?
Seriously ghost quarter, tectonic edge, encroaching waste, beast within, blood moon, Leonin arbiter, shadow of doubt, Aven mindcensor, spreading seas, all do a pretty good job of messing up a greedy mana base. You even have something in pretty well every color plus utility lands that are colorless.
Edit*** let's not forget that life from the loam is in modern, so any land that is more effective at destroying lands will be broken very quickly by a loam deck.
I would like a competitive LD deck. Unfortunately, land destruction is one of those taboo effects because it's "unfun". However, when talking about a competitive deck I could careless what people consider "fun". I consider Land Destruction fun. A competitive land destruction deck would make people avoid greedy color combinations. I think a red sinkhole, and plus blood moon is what need to put LD on the map, an other cheap smallpox like card. A red sinkhole also can't be recurred with engines like crucible of worlds or life from the loam. Also how do you call a three color deck running cryptic command not greedy? There are UWR decks running cryptic quite often.
I'd argue a 2 color deck running a playset of Cryptic is even greedy. That's like GB rock running Phyrexian Obliterator. Its still greedy, even at two colors.
Honestly patriot is U/W splash red.
The reason why land destruction would be a problem for competitive is because it would warp the format, every deck would have to be built to beat it. It's a very linear deck with few answers, then Once it gets going then there are no answers.
Burn is about the only deck that could compete.
Modern Wasteland
Land
: Add 1 to your mana pool. G, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land. R, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land. W, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land. B, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land. U, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land.
What is the point of all the other colors its pretty much 1, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land. Colorless mana can't be used to active this ability. Honestly, that draw back doesn't matter 99% of the time. It's probably a a little too aggressive currently. I think 2 mana no stipulations on requiring colored mana are fine.
The reason I wanted coloured only is to make it not work cleanly alongside tectonic edge and ghost quarter. I didn't want it paid for with one of those two cards, which is the goal that design feature served. It might be more cleanly executed simply by adding the suggested phrase "Colorless mana can't be used to active this ability".
Essentially the idea is to make a card slightly more powerful than tec edge, with a downside to playing both.
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Honestly patriot is U/W splash red.
The reason why land destruction would be a problem for competitive is because it would warp the format, every deck would have to be built to beat it. It's a very linear deck with few answers, then Once it gets going then there are no answers.
Burn is about the only deck that could compete.
A dedicated LD deck tends to not have much room for removal unless we talking about a pox variant which LD and creature removal are bundled into one spell. A landed threat is enough to make the deck crumple, and the fact there are one and two drops likes goyf that can win the game the by themselves. Especially goyf since red can't bolt it. I don't think it would warp the format like you think. Fetches are also a great defense against targeted land removal. Also green has plenty of mana dorks other ramp effects that are good against LD. Blue has counter magic like spell pierce and mana leak that can be quiet decent answers. Affinity doesn't need much land to get going. Honestly, it would be a good deck, but not oppressive. That's just thinking about cards that see play quickly that's excluding hate cards like Sacred Ground. Heck at the worst it would make playing 3+ colors, and higher cmc spells more risky? What's wrong with that?
Soul sisters says hi.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Sorry, I happen to think that twin, RG tron, infect, boggles, and a number of other 2 color decks with possibly a minor splash or very minimal color requirements--are not casual magic as you say. I also like how you claim there is no drawback to 5 color. Others mention uncounterable lands that tap to destroy ALL non-basics for 1 or zero mana...all statements which can only be a joke.
Hukos, there are a lot of people who spend more time in this forum than actually playing modern and mistake it for knowledge and experience. When you've been playing longer you'll also know when to spot it.
I think Rishadan Port would be safe.
My evil broken side says strip mine (Don't take this too seriously)
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
Because that's the only way you can play a "fair" game of magic in modern and there's a lot of people that enjoy playing fair magic? If you're not playing at least three colors with utility lands, Junk WILL crush you. That's not even up for debate. I mean, Junk will probably crush you anyway since you're trying to play a fair game of magic and you're not in BGW colors (which is kind of a mistake, if you ask me).
You honestly can't act like Twin is like every other deck in modern. Here's a thought experiment. Take Twin, remove the combo pre-board, and replace the combo creatures with noncombo creatures. That deck gets crushed by most of the field. Like, its not even close. The combo is what allows Twin to leverage its insane tempo advantage on the field. Yes, I'm aware Twin normally boards out the combo but the issue with that is that if you aggressively play twin in postboarded games as if they don't have the combo, you run the risk of getting blown out assuming they do have it.
Tron, Infect and Boggles are also playing very linear, noninteractive magic. Its not really comparable to what I'm talking about.
If you make a two color "fair" deck, you're going to get a ton of people telling you its going to be terrible until you start running a ton of utility lands, a third color and a bunch of other greedy stuff. And they're correct. But the problem is that even with that, you're trying to play the fair game better than Junk and that's just not possible by any objective measure. And I've made two color fair decks before in modern. They're all pretty awful, without exception.
I interpret this as "Anyone who disagrees with me is automatically wrong and can't ever be playing modern because they disagree with me and I'm never ever wrong under any circumstances." Which to that effect, tantamount to nothing more than an echo chamber and that accomplishes nothing useful.
2 colorless
Trample
Neo Goyf gets +1/+1 for each color of mana
Opponents lands can produce.
0/1
Not a land but whatevs
I don't feel like this is the case. It's been my experience with Mono Black Devotion, a 24swamps.dec, that i'm MORE likely to win than my junk opponents. My match up against unfair or linear decks like burn, storm and affinity aren't as good as I would like them to be.
Again, the comment was that shock land mana bases weren't very good because burn was Tier 1, and I was asserting that if it was a strong enough deterrent to greedy mana bases, then why are there still greedy mana bases?
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
1, T, Sacrifice Faster Tec Edge V1.0: Destroy target nonbasic land. Activate this ability only if an opponent controls three or more lands.
Now you can actually fight turn 4 Twin combos. And you can fight greedy 3+ color mana bases.
However, the problem with this card is that you can get 2 of these out and drop your opponent down to 1 land, now we're in non interactive kill you with stupid Delver/Tarmogoyf territory. This card would also push modern to play more 1,2,3 drops, and less 4+ drops which I personally think is lame. But I think the real problem is the fast linear decks making the format fast, not potentially faster Tec edges.
We could also try adding a minor benefit to your opponent.
Faster Tec Edge V2.0
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
1, T, Sacrifice Faster Tec Edge V2.0: Destroy target nonbasic land. Activate this ability only if an opponent controls three or more lands. Your opponent may scry 1.
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Probably not enough. Port also does not stop the player from using instant speed affects, and fetches. Port would probably find it's home in a death & taxes variant. A normal port would probably be fine, but it's not the kind of effect I suspect wizards wants in standard.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
To be honest I don't think even the actual Rishadan Port will have much of an impact in Modern.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
What are you talking about one and two color decks can't make it?
U/R twin, 8 Rack, U/R Storm, Hate Bears, G/W Aggro, Boggles, Mono U Tron, G/R Tron, RDW, Merfolk, all are competitive. As a matter of fact a two color deck has won the majority of high level modern competitions. U/R Twin.
The current meta just needs to be shook up a bit and one or more of these strategies will become prevalent again.
Edit*** by the way against those overly greedy mana bases we do basically have Strip Mine , in ghost quarter. Particularly when used in hate bears with path.
When you see a three color deck splash a 4th you know manabases are greedy. Heck even burn is pretty much three color these days they splash green for Destructive Revelry, and Atarka's Command.
Wasteland is probably too good with the current power of modern. As modern grows stronger as a format, I could see the card being fine. Honestly
I think this would be what I would go for
Modern Wasteland
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
2, T Sacrifice Modern Wasteland: Destroy Target non-basic Land.
or a red Sinkhole, but unlikely happening.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
Modern Wasteland
Land
: Add 1 to your mana pool.
G, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land.
R, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land.
W, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land.
B, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land.
U, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
And does anyone actually want that?
Seriously ghost quarter, tectonic edge, encroaching waste, beast within, blood moon, Leonin arbiter, shadow of doubt, Aven mindcensor, spreading seas, all do a pretty good job of messing up a greedy mana base. You even have something in pretty well every color plus utility lands that are colorless.
Edit*** let's not forget that life from the loam is in modern, so any land that is more effective at destroying lands will be broken very quickly by a loam deck.
What is the point of all the other colors its pretty much 1, , Sacrifice Modern Wasteland, Pay 2 life: Destroy Target non-basic Land. Colorless mana can't be used to active this ability. Honestly, that draw back doesn't matter 99% of the time. It's probably a a little too aggressive currently. I think 2 mana no stipulations on requiring colored mana are fine.
Modern Wasteland
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
2, T Sacrifice Modern Wasteland: Destroy Target non-basic Land.
I would like a competitive LD deck. Unfortunately, land destruction is one of those taboo effects because it's "unfun". However, when talking about a competitive deck I could careless what people consider "fun". I consider Land Destruction fun. A competitive land destruction deck would make people avoid greedy color combinations. I think a red sinkhole, and plus blood moon is what need to put LD on the map, an other cheap smallpox like card. A red sinkhole also can't be recurred with engines like crucible of worlds or life from the loam. Also how do you call a three color deck running cryptic command not greedy? There are UWR decks running cryptic quite often.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
The reason why land destruction would be a problem for competitive is because it would warp the format, every deck would have to be built to beat it. It's a very linear deck with few answers, then Once it gets going then there are no answers.
Burn is about the only deck that could compete.
The reason I wanted coloured only is to make it not work cleanly alongside tectonic edge and ghost quarter. I didn't want it paid for with one of those two cards, which is the goal that design feature served. It might be more cleanly executed simply by adding the suggested phrase "Colorless mana can't be used to active this ability".
Essentially the idea is to make a card slightly more powerful than tec edge, with a downside to playing both.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
A dedicated LD deck tends to not have much room for removal unless we talking about a pox variant which LD and creature removal are bundled into one spell. A landed threat is enough to make the deck crumple, and the fact there are one and two drops likes goyf that can win the game the by themselves. Especially goyf since red can't bolt it. I don't think it would warp the format like you think. Fetches are also a great defense against targeted land removal. Also green has plenty of mana dorks other ramp effects that are good against LD. Blue has counter magic like spell pierce and mana leak that can be quiet decent answers. Affinity doesn't need much land to get going. Honestly, it would be a good deck, but not oppressive. That's just thinking about cards that see play quickly that's excluding hate cards like Sacred Ground. Heck at the worst it would make playing 3+ colors, and higher cmc spells more risky? What's wrong with that?
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
: Add R to your mana pool
R, , Sacrifice Goblin Mines: You may reveal a goblin card from your hand. If you do, destroy target non-basic land.
UWR Midrange
BRG Jund
BG Rock
UR Storm
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