Thanks for your suggestions darksteel88 I've been playing UW tron for a couple of years and actually I did like it, but with the banning of eye of ugin i just disassmbled it (no emrakul wincon, and the gift package emrakul + sphinx's rev + gifts + X seemed just too slow and cluncky). I should probably try the mindslaver + crucible version again. I'll return to the thread to have a look to the recents developments of the deck
I will also give a try to UB Living End, that just passed under my radar.
Thank you again
Would something like aristocrats interest you?
You ca on tweak it wimp the skmething like solemnity and geralf's messenger as the win condition.
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What would you suggest? Thanks for any advice you may have!
You might like UW Control or UWR Queller or UWR Control. I would look into those. There are threads here on mtgs as well.
Thanks! Unfortunately those are a little bit out of my budget now. I'm considering going Dredge, even though I can put together a 4C Gifts (which doesn't seem to bee too competitive).
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
Hello, everyone! I've been looking for a new Modern deck for a while, and after playtesting a lot of decks, I really feel like I can't find one that really sticks with me. I used to play Ad Nauseam right before Death's Shadow took off for about two years, but the deck seems to be unable to win against that and a few other popular decks like Humans.
A lot of this stems from my Legacy experience — after picking up Death and Taxes about a year ago, I've found I don't enjoy any other deck nearly as much, which sort of turned me off to Modern for the last six months or so. I've tried both Modern DnT in all forms and Humans, but neither really fits with my enjoyment of Legacy humans (the DnT mainly because it isn't a great deck). Help me out! I'm open to all sorts of suggestions, and will list important information below.
Cards you already own
I can flex hard enough into a different deck that I don't mind acquiring cards. The only caveat there is I would rather not have to deal with getting Mox Opals or Chalice of the Voids, as I feel they are crazy expensive right now and won't keep their value if we get a legitimate reprint in something like Masters 25.
Cards you like to play
Man, Stoneforge Mystic is rad. That card alone and the various lines of play afforded to me in Legacy feels both rewarding and satisfying, mostly as though I've been able to set up a good gameplan. I can also analyze well where a line went wrong, which I also love to do. Other cards that can slow down fast combo are nice as well, because it feels good to have my opponent be thrown off their game plan.
Style you like to play
Well, Legacy Death and Taxes, that style of deck. Mainly a deck that prefers to get to the midgame, because 50-minute rounds really suck (I've played some slow decks in the past and hoo boy do GPs suck without bathroom breaks). I played Ad Nauseam as well, and I've owned Living End for about five years now and play it off and on, although I prefer it being a backup deck. The first Modern deck that really got me into the format was Amulet Bloom back in the day, even though I've had Living End for longer.
Not sure what else to say — let me know and I can try to provide more information! It seems like a combo-midrange deck would be good (pls Twin unban). I would have to say I do not like playing Blue decks as much, but prefer White/Black strategies.
I'm back asking you some advices about more investment in our beloved card game. I'm back on the low side with Ad Nauseam as my maindeck, but I've had an history with several decks:
- I had Burn twice, in 2014 and 2017. Played 3 months with it, got bored.
- I had Living End twice between 2013-2015 and 2017 again. Love it, it's just redundant when my pet deck is Ad Nauseam.
- I played Storm but I'm just bad at it...
- I had Grixis Control and Jeskai control in the Summer of 2017, loved to play it, but wasn't winning much with it. However, it felt great to play.
So I'm thinking about buying into control again because I want to invest in some staples (Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, Flooded Strand, etc.). I'm leaning between Grixis Control, Jeskai Control and Esper Control. I'll have around 800$ to spend, so money is not an issue (aside maybe Scalding Tarn, so that's why Esper Control or U/W Control even could be more afforfable price-wise).
1. I'm playing mostly against Storm, U-Tron and Affinity. Some Bloo, some Ad Nauseam too. But mostly, I want my control deck to be the best against Storm, Tron and Affinity : what would you advice?
Hello, everyone! I've been looking for a new Modern deck for a while, and after playtesting a lot of decks, I really feel like I can't find one that really sticks with me. I used to play Ad Nauseam right before Death's Shadow took off for about two years, but the deck seems to be unable to win against that and a few other popular decks like Humans.
A lot of this stems from my Legacy experience — after picking up Death and Taxes about a year ago, I've found I don't enjoy any other deck nearly as much, which sort of turned me off to Modern for the last six months or so. I've tried both Modern DnT in all forms and Humans, but neither really fits with my enjoyment of Legacy humans (the DnT mainly because it isn't a great deck). Help me out! I'm open to all sorts of suggestions, and will list important information below.
Cards you already own
I can flex hard enough into a different deck that I don't mind acquiring cards. The only caveat there is I would rather not have to deal with getting Mox Opals or Chalice of the Voids, as I feel they are crazy expensive right now and won't keep their value if we get a legitimate reprint in something like Masters 25.
Cards you like to play
Man, Stoneforge Mystic is rad. That card alone and the various lines of play afforded to me in Legacy feels both rewarding and satisfying, mostly as though I've been able to set up a good gameplan. I can also analyze well where a line went wrong, which I also love to do. Other cards that can slow down fast combo are nice as well, because it feels good to have my opponent be thrown off their game plan.
Style you like to play
Well, Legacy Death and Taxes, that style of deck. Mainly a deck that prefers to get to the midgame, because 50-minute rounds really suck (I've played some slow decks in the past and hoo boy do GPs suck without bathroom breaks). I played Ad Nauseam as well, and I've owned Living End for about five years now and play it off and on, although I prefer it being a backup deck. The first Modern deck that really got me into the format was Amulet Bloom back in the day, even though I've had Living End for longer.
Not sure what else to say — let me know and I can try to provide more information! It seems like a combo-midrange deck would be good (pls Twin unban). I would have to say I do not like playing Blue decks as much, but prefer White/Black strategies.
Some decks that might interest you
Blitzkreig - blood moon control
Company combo
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pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
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4 goyfs received
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3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
I thought I was done with this thread, I really did. Had Eldrazi Tron, Elves, and half of Lands built, with Grixis Shadow being slowly assembled in the background.
Then my collection went missing.
While I really liked those decks when I played them, I'm still holding out hope that I might recover my collection, so I'd rather not build them again, but I still want to play Modern at a competitive level. My preferred style of play varies, but I've mostly enjoyed control variants and combo decks. Currently, the only expensive cards I have are some Flooded Strands, Hallowed Fountains, a Misty Rainforest, a Bloodstained Mire, a Wooded Foothills, and one of each shock in Temur colors.
What's a reasonably well-positioned deck that I can build for my playstyle?
I'm back asking you some advices about more investment in our beloved card game. I'm back on the low side with Ad Nauseam as my maindeck, but I've had an history with several decks:
- I had Burn twice, in 2014 and 2017. Played 3 months with it, got bored.
- I had Living End twice between 2013-2015 and 2017 again. Love it, it's just redundant when my pet deck is Ad Nauseam.
- I played Storm but I'm just bad at it...
- I had Grixis Control and Jeskai control in the Summer of 2017, loved to play it, but wasn't winning much with it. However, it felt great to play.
So I'm thinking about buying into control again because I want to invest in some staples (Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, Flooded Strand, etc.). I'm leaning between Grixis Control, Jeskai Control and Esper Control. I'll have around 800$ to spend, so money is not an issue (aside maybe Scalding Tarn, so that's why Esper Control or U/W Control even could be more afforfable price-wise).
1. I'm playing mostly against Storm, U-Tron and Affinity. Some Bloo, some Ad Nauseam too. But mostly, I want my control deck to be the best against Storm, Tron and Affinity : what would you advice?
Probably any of the hyper aggro decks. If you're not going over Jace, then you're going under him. Playing a value-oriented game against him seems like a poor choice, you're going to 50-50 those matchups. Like BGx vs UWx has always been a 50-50 matchup, or something close. Combo decks don't seem well oriented against counters. UW Control with Jace seems like a problem for Tron, since Field of Ruins is a big problem for Tron. I think going as fast as you can under him is the best idea.
As a G/x Tron player, I have no idea why I should care about decks durdling with Field of Ruin and JTMS. Sure, if they curve directly into that and a couple of negates/ceremonious rejections I'm going to have a hard time, but most of the time what I'm doing is just way more powerful than what they're doing. And Pithing Needle cleanly and efficiently answers just about everything they're trying to do. I'm honestly looking forward to a meta with Jace and BBE in it, except to face all the combo decks that will appear to wreck them.
Any suggestions for a good deck that goes underneath? Preferably a synergistic one.
I'd say 5c humans fits that bill nicely.
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Modern: -UBG Lantern Control-GW or RG or R Tron - G Stompy - C KCI Combo-
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
Cards you already own: A ton, and im always buying and selling so this isnt an issue.
Colors you like to play: Any, the best part about modern is that every color does a lot of cool things sometimes outside its normal wheelhouse.
Style I like to play:
Somewhat aggro oriented that is able to get under/fight through late game grindy decks.
Has some extent of unique, fun, thoughtful lines that reward knowledge and practice with the deck.
Resilient enough that it doesnt die to any specific hate cards.
Interacts just enough to be able to avoid auto losses to the faster goldfishing decks in the format.
Level you want to play at: I want to be able to have high levels of success at FNM while tailoring my SB to my meta but also want to maintain high expectations for Opens and such.
I feel like you should try out Affinity. It's an aggro deck that's fast and has very interesting lines. It's easy to play on the surface, but extremely rewarding for people who play it continuously and master the deck. It's actually one of the more difficult decks in the format simply because you have a staggering number of options at all points of the game. Another thing that makes it interesting is it has so many different ways to win the game, such as Infect, Cranial Plating, Arcbound Ravager, Etched Champion, or Steel Overseer. It's definitely as interesting as an aggressive deck as you will find.
Because it's a fast aggro deck, you never auto lose to the fast goldfish decks. Goldfish decks tend to be aiming at turn 4 vacuously, which is the same turn you're trying to win. For example, a deck like Storm tries to win on turn 3 when it can, but it needs things to align perfectly, including you not having a Galvanic Blast. They're more so aiming for 4, which means you have chances to get under them. The general thing in Modern with aggro decks is that if you're a turn 4 goldfish aggro deck, you don't need to interact with combo decks because you can race them.
Despite it having very obvious weaknesses (artifact hate), it has always been a tier 1 deck. Literally the past 5 years it's always been a good deck. So even though sometimes you'll lose games from some hate cards, overall the hate isn't strong enough to push it out of the format. It top 8'd GP Toronto last weekend with basically a stock mainboard. At the PT, it had an 8-2 finish.
I feel like you should try out Affinity. It's an aggro deck that's fast and has very interesting lines. It's easy to play on the surface, but extremely rewarding for people who play it continuously and master the deck. It's actually one of the more difficult decks in the format simply because you have a staggering number of options at all points of the game. Another thing that makes it interesting is it has so many different ways to win the game, such as Infect, Cranial Plating, Arcbound Ravager, Etched Champion, or Steel Overseer. It's definitely as interesting as an aggressive deck as you will find.
Because it's a fast aggro deck, you never auto lose to the fast goldfish decks. Goldfish decks tend to be aiming at turn 4 vacuously, which is the same turn you're trying to win. For example, a deck like Storm tries to win on turn 3 when it can, but it needs things to align perfectly, including you not having a Galvanic Blast. They're more so aiming for 4, which means you have chances to get under them. The general thing in Modern with aggro decks is that if you're a turn 4 goldfish aggro deck, you don't need to interact with combo decks because you can race them.
Despite it having very obvious weaknesses (artifact hate), it has always been a tier 1 deck. Literally the past 5 years it's always been a good deck. So even though sometimes you'll lose games from some hate cards, overall the hate isn't strong enough to push it out of the format. It top 8'd GP Toronto last weekend with basically a stock mainboard. At the PT, it had an 8-2 finish.
Thanks for the suggestion, the reason I have yet to try this one is basically because it feels like a glass cannon to me, it doesnt feel very resilient and especially at a FNM level if im doing good with it ill see stony silence pop up left and right. Other than that it would be a perfect fit i think.... The same kind of goes for dredge... A lot of fun lines, good aggro, but just folds to RIP a lot of the time.
Ideally I think I would want something fun like affinity or dredge but maybe sacrificing some speed or explosiveness for resilience and interaction without going full midrange. Any ideas?
Well, if you have a small FNM then maybe Stony Silence would become a problem, typically it's not a huge problem. Dredge folds a lot harder to RIP than Affinity does to Stoney Silence. But if it's a real concern for you, then I can see not wanting to play the deck.
The problem I see is that you're asking for too many things, you can't get them all at once. Most aggro decks avoid losing to goldfish decks by being as fast as them. Sure, you can add interaction, that usually comes at the cost of sacrificing in other areas. What you originally wanted was:
1. Aggro oriented (i.e. not control, not combo, not midrange)
2. Fun/interesting gameplay that's rewarding for playing the deck extensively.
3. Resilient in a way that specific narrow hate cards aren't a problem.
4. Interactive enough to not outright lose to goldfish decks.
5. Competitive.
So let's trim 1 and 5 and just say we're picking a competitive aggro deck, and leaving that as our entire realm of possible decks. The list of decks then becomes: Humans, Burn, Affinity, Dredge, Hollow One, Bogles, Merfolk. Now let's consider which of criteria 2-4 each of them meets:
Burn (3, 4) - It's fast enough to race everything, so it inherently fills 4. It's also resilient enough not to lose to hate cards, the primary one is Leyline of Sanctity and you board in Destructive Revelry, so 3 isn't a problem. However, it's extremely linear, every game is just you playing cheap creatures and pointing burn spells at their face. You don't get to have interesting lines, your choices are whether to kill things on board to get creatures through, or point at their face.
Humans (3, 4) - It's a good deck and it's got a lot of interaction in cards like Kitesail Freebooter, Thalia, and Meddling Mage. That also tends to make it interactive enough, because you're essentially playing Thoughtseize in an aggressive deck. It apparently has a really good Storm matchup as a result, so it's definitely hitting 4. The fact you can outright stop answers means you don't lose to narrow hate cards, and realistically you're only concerned about sweepers. That being said, it doesn't fit 2. The deck is extremely linear, about as linear as Burn. It's not a rewarding deck either, you can learn the lines relatively quickly and then it'll get boring for you.
Affinity (2, 4) - Like Burn, you're fast enough to race everything. You're one of the most fun/interesting decks in the format, BUT you aren't super resilient. There are definitely pointed hate cards.
Dredge (2) - Unfortunately, it only fills condition 2 that the gameplay is interesting. Dredge is a cool mechanic and there are some cool things the deck can do. It's really not resilient to graveyard hate at all, RIP and Leyline of the Void kill you outright. It's also typically far from interactive, hoping to play against fair decks that can't keep up with their endless supply of threats.
Hollow One (2ish, 3) - It's kind of like Dredge except it cuts out the heavy Dredge stuff in order to be more resilient. It's fairly aggressive, not quite a turn 4 aggro deck in most cases, but not a midrange deck. The gameplay ranges from somewhat interesting to dull depending on who you ask. Your turns are usually not that exciting, it's pretty obvious a lot of the time to just play your Burning Inquiry/Goblin Lore and then cast Hollow One or Gurmag. It's definitely not interactive enough to beat goldfish decks, in fact the mainboard has basically only Bolts and Collective Brutality for interaction. It's a deck hoping to set the pace of the game.
Bogles (2ish, 3ish) - It can range from interesting to dull depending on who you're talking to. There usually isn't a lot of variety in the gameplay, just summon a dude and lay on the beef. It's largely resilient because enchantment hate is hard to find (i.e. nobody's packing Fracturing Gust), and hexproof creatures are just naturally resilient. It, however, opts not to interact. Dan Ward's list (top 8'd GP Toronto last weekend) had 2 Path and 3 Leyline as the interaction in his deck. It's a proactive deck that's trying to just put enough pressure on an opponent, but it's going to fold pretty hard to decks like Storm or Ad Nauseam most of the time.
Merfolk (3, 4ish) - It's definitely not losing to specific hate cards, it just plays creatures and more creatures and makes them big. Mass removal is a problem, though that's typically always an aggro deck's demise. It's somewhat interactive by virtue of being blue and playing cards like Vapor Snag/Dismember and Spreading Seas. The problem is that it literally plays out identically every game. Just play a critical mass of lords that your team is impossible to handle, and make them all unblockable. You're not getting rewarded much for learning the deck, you're learning how much to commit before you've over-committed but you're really not spending ages finding interesting lines.
So of the 7 competitive aggro decks I listed out, none of them met every criteria. You can pick up to 4 of the 5 you wanted, but not all 5. Sacrifice on aggro, we'll find you another deck that's interesting and has general game. Sacrifice on interactiveness and we'll find you an aggro deck that ignores the opponent. It's just that when you're trying to get all of them, such a deck sometimes does not exist.
Well, if you have a small FNM then maybe Stony Silence would become a problem, typically it's not a huge problem. Dredge folds a lot harder to RIP than Affinity does to Stoney Silence. But if it's a real concern for you, then I can see not wanting to play the deck.
The problem I see is that you're asking for too many things, you can't get them all at once. Most aggro decks avoid losing to goldfish decks by being as fast as them. Sure, you can add interaction, that usually comes at the cost of sacrificing in other areas. What you originally wanted was:
1. Aggro oriented (i.e. not control, not combo, not midrange)
2. Fun/interesting gameplay that's rewarding for playing the deck extensively.
3. Resilient in a way that specific narrow hate cards aren't a problem.
4. Interactive enough to not outright lose to goldfish decks.
5. Competitive.
So let's trim 1 and 5 and just say we're picking a competitive aggro deck, and leaving that as our entire realm of possible decks. The list of decks then becomes: Humans, Burn, Affinity, Dredge, Hollow One, Bogles, Merfolk. Now let's consider which of criteria 2-4 each of them meets:
Burn (3, 4) - It's fast enough to race everything, so it inherently fills 4. It's also resilient enough not to lose to hate cards, the primary one is Leyline of Sanctity and you board in Destructive Revelry, so 3 isn't a problem. However, it's extremely linear, every game is just you playing cheap creatures and pointing burn spells at their face. You don't get to have interesting lines, your choices are whether to kill things on board to get creatures through, or point at their face.
Humans (3, 4) - It's a good deck and it's got a lot of interaction in cards like Kitesail Freebooter, Thalia, and Meddling Mage. That also tends to make it interactive enough, because you're essentially playing Thoughtseize in an aggressive deck. It apparently has a really good Storm matchup as a result, so it's definitely hitting 4. The fact you can outright stop answers means you don't lose to narrow hate cards, and realistically you're only concerned about sweepers. That being said, it doesn't fit 2. The deck is extremely linear, about as linear as Burn. It's not a rewarding deck either, you can learn the lines relatively quickly and then it'll get boring for you.
Affinity (2, 4) - Like Burn, you're fast enough to race everything. You're one of the most fun/interesting decks in the format, BUT you aren't super resilient. There are definitely pointed hate cards.
Dredge (2) - Unfortunately, it only fills condition 2 that the gameplay is interesting. Dredge is a cool mechanic and there are some cool things the deck can do. It's really not resilient to graveyard hate at all, RIP and Leyline of the Void kill you outright. It's also typically far from interactive, hoping to play against fair decks that can't keep up with their endless supply of threats.
Hollow One (2ish, 3) - It's kind of like Dredge except it cuts out the heavy Dredge stuff in order to be more resilient. It's fairly aggressive, not quite a turn 4 aggro deck in most cases, but not a midrange deck. The gameplay ranges from somewhat interesting to dull depending on who you ask. Your turns are usually not that exciting, it's pretty obvious a lot of the time to just play your Burning Inquiry/Goblin Lore and then cast Hollow One or Gurmag. It's definitely not interactive enough to beat goldfish decks, in fact the mainboard has basically only Bolts and Collective Brutality for interaction. It's a deck hoping to set the pace of the game.
Bogles (2ish, 3ish) - It can range from interesting to dull depending on who you're talking to. There usually isn't a lot of variety in the gameplay, just summon a dude and lay on the beef. It's largely resilient because enchantment hate is hard to find (i.e. nobody's packing Fracturing Gust), and hexproof creatures are just naturally resilient. It, however, opts not to interact. Dan Ward's list (top 8'd GP Toronto last weekend) had 2 Path and 3 Leyline as the interaction in his deck. It's a proactive deck that's trying to just put enough pressure on an opponent, but it's going to fold pretty hard to decks like Storm or Ad Nauseam most of the time.
Merfolk (3, 4ish) - It's definitely not losing to specific hate cards, it just plays creatures and more creatures and makes them big. Mass removal is a problem, though that's typically always an aggro deck's demise. It's somewhat interactive by virtue of being blue and playing cards like Vapor Snag/Dismember and Spreading Seas. The problem is that it literally plays out identically every game. Just play a critical mass of lords that your team is impossible to handle, and make them all unblockable. You're not getting rewarded much for learning the deck, you're learning how much to commit before you've over-committed but you're really not spending ages finding interesting lines.
So of the 7 competitive aggro decks I listed out, none of them met every criteria. You can pick up to 4 of the 5 you wanted, but not all 5. Sacrifice on aggro, we'll find you another deck that's interesting and has general game. Sacrifice on interactiveness and we'll find you an aggro deck that ignores the opponent. It's just that when you're trying to get all of them, such a deck sometimes does not exist.
Wow that was an amazing response. I greatly appreciate that. If I wanted to say remove the requirement of being an aggro deck would that open options and potentially open up #2-5 on my list? I would potentially change #4 slightly:
1. Aggro oriented (i.e. not control, not combo, not midrange)
2. Fun/interesting gameplay that's rewarding for playing the deck extensively.
3. Resilient in a way that specific narrow hate cards aren't a problem.
4. Interactive enough to not outright lose to goldfish decks. Has game vs BBE/Jace Decks(FOTM for sure here)
5. Competitive.
Yeah, if you want to remove constraints the amount of decks available to you open up. We can find you the best thing given any set of constraints, it's just that sometimes there are too many constraints such that nothing fits all of them simultaneously (it's called a constraint satisfaction problem if you're wondering, learned that in university). Anyway, we can go back and adjust:
We're now looking for competitive decks that are interesting and can't be hated out easily. I'll exclude all aggro decks to keep this list short again, and pick a few that seem like they may fit.
BGx (2ish, 3, 4) - It's really resilient since it's just goodstuff.deck, and it has play against all decks by virtue of powerful creatures, answers, and interaction like Thoughtseize. It's actually quite good against goldfish decks like Storm because of targeted discard. The gameplay is interesting enough just because you have a variety of cards in your deck, and wins tend to be cobbled together from however you end up drawing as opposed to a specific win condition. Note that BGx is a BBE deck if you play Jund, you could play Abzan instead or just straight BG (not sure which variant is the best).
UWx Control (2ish, 3, 4) - This actually nicely fits all the categories. It's resilient because it plays lots of counterspells and answers, so you tend not to have a lot of hate cards against you just in general. The fact it's playing all answers is why it's interactive enough not to lose to goldfish decks. It has rewarding gameplay for playing it longer, since you'll learn the format and learn what things are and aren't problems, and typically Ux tempo/control decks tend to fall into this category of rewarding you for practice. It's also a Jace deck, so there's that. It's gonna most likely end up either UW and just slot in Jace, or some UWR midrange/control shell with Jace.
Grixis Shadow (2, 3, 4) - Definitely interesting gameplay, the idea of killing yourself to win is different and unique. Because you have to pain yourself, you get into situations where you need to figure out how much life is safe in the current game, making games feel different. It's resilient because even if they bring in graveyard hate, you can board into cards like Young Pyromancer or Liliana to diversify. The fact it plays removal and counters plus targeted discard makes goldfish decks not losses, and I think because your good cases are powerful, you'll be able to compete with BBE and Jace. Hard to say how good, but it won't be abysmal.
Traverse Shadow (2, 3, 4) - Basically the same as Grixis Shadow, except your threats are more diverse because of Tarmogoyf instead of needing dredge. It's effectively a mash of BGx and Grixis Shadow.
Lantern Control (2, 3ish, 4) - Lantern has interesting gameplay (not fun to a lot of people though), it's certainly a lot different than other things. It's somewhat resilient in that you keep answers to their answers in your deck, and you have lots of redundancy. Certain hate cards aren't even that bad as well. It, however, might end up the way of Affinity if it becomes a problem, especially since it's a deck people love to hate. By virtue of interacting with the top card then it has enough interaction.
Eldrazi and Taxes (2ish, 3, 4) - The idea of a deck always playing hate makes it good and interactive against goldfish strategies. It's resilient because it makes it hard to interact with it. It's somewhat interesting because each deck requires a different way to interact, but it's always generally approaching games the same (hate out your opponent with what hate cards you draw until you are up enough resources).
Maybe something there catches your eye, maybe not. Again, we can always iterate on what constraints you want to apply to find the deck.
I sold a lot of my collection last year, but want to buy into a single modern deck over the next month for a summer GP's side events nearby. I still have a few pieces of burn and merfolk (along with a desire to not spend a month's rent on a deck). In fact, I'm considering trading in the remainder of my cards to my LGS in order to buy the rest of either deck.
My meta is very competitive, very diverse, so there's no specific matchup that requires my focus. Just wondering whether to drop about $350 on either, maybe half of which I can get via trade in.
Burn is very good right now, and it will still be good post BBE/Jace. Stick with that deck. Burn has been good for ages and I don't see that changing unless Wizards prints W: gain 20 life.
Burn is very good right now, and it will still be good post BBE/Jace. Stick with that deck. Burn has been good for ages and I don't see that changing unless Wizards prints W: gain 20 life.
Well knowing WOTC that card would be printed in green, but thank you.
Hello! I own Grixis Delver (just miss a few recent inclusions with the most notable one being Collected Brutality). I also own 1x cryptic Command and 1xAncestral Vision for EDH purposes. The Delver deck got bad, overshadowed by Grixis Death Shadow and Grixis Control, so I switched to storm, which now I own, but I don't really like to play it as I am not a fan of uninteractive combo decks.
If I wanted to build a new modern deck without spending a lot of money (let's say I can justify spending 50-60€), what should I buy into?
I admit most of the choices I was considering are now almost surely out of budget because they'll want to include Jace
Please, don't factor Shocklands and KTK-fetches in the budget as I'm going to eventually buy them anyway so consider them "free" for the purpose of discussion
Probably only Grixis Death's Shadow is viable for you. Every deck not base blue is too expensive, and any blue deck requiring Cryptic Command is going to be too expensive (two Cryptics will break your budget). UW decks are likely going to want Colonnade, which also breaks your budget. So you have to be base UR and not playing white, while also not being a control deck.
For GDS, you probably only need to grab Tasigur and Death's Shadow. The rest of it you should hopefully have, or be able to substitute (i.e. no Liliana isn't the worst).
I second darksteel88's thoughts. GDS is different than Delver to be sure, but the overlap in cards enough where you probably don't need to pick up a lot of cards. I would add Gurmag Angler to the list of cards you want (though it is a common so won't break the bank). I have GDS put together for my brother-in-law and we don't play Liliana of the Veil at all and it still seems to perform fairly well. It is also very interactive and can be skill intensive to play. If you dislike Storm due to the lack of interactivity, GDS might be right up your alley.
The problem was your budget constraint. With only 50 Euros to spend, you're basically working with what you already have. Even DS is going to break your budget looking at what you don't have. Your other options are to move things or increase the budget. There just aren't decks that are competitive that can be built for 50 using what you already have.
Just getting into modern as a whole. I have played standard and draft on and off for the past few years. I definitely think modern is the best option for me moving forward. I attempted Naya Zoo roughly a week ago and I really didn't enjoy it as much as I though I would. If it wasn't winning fast, it was a bad feeling knowing there weren't many outs. I have that deck practically built and I have some trade fodder. I am looking to be able to have a deck to both show good results regularly on FNM's and potential larger tournaments if i get the chance to make it out to any and to be interactive with a chance of killing and/ or locking it down by turn 4 due to the recent changes. The Temur moon/mid/control decks interests me but buying goyfs, snapcasters, tarns and mistys all at once isn't practical for me right now and i am looking to have this deck built in the next week and a half. I do not want to play a pure aggro/burn or full control and the midrange decks seem hit or miss from what I've seen. I could definitely be wrong but it seems like I want to play somewhat of a mid-control deck that has a shot any given day. Humans seems fun but loses to blood moon. I like to play different decks that you don't see everyday and am guilty of paying too close attention to any new brews that take down tourneys. Any input would be greatly appreciated as I am reaching out for advice over anything, the colors will fall into place. Thanks
Wew that was a lot of text with no spaces. Anyway, I've heard Big Zoo with Bloodbraid Elf is good. Hard to say, but in a week's time, BBE is a relatively cheap option that will let you play something that's hopefully a bit better.
If you want some better advice, maybe trying to organize your thoughts a little better and posting the things we're looking for (budget, strategies, etc.) will help. It's hard to tell what you're looking for, you seem to just be asking for a better deck but I have no idea how much you're willing to spend.
It's also unclear exactly what you even want to play. You seem to want a deck that: a) wins by turn 4, b) people aren't playing, c) is not only FNM competitive but also good enough to place at GPs or SCGs, d) is not an aggro deck but also still wins by turn 4, e) doesn't lose to key hate cards like Blood Moon (and I assume similar decks). You're basically asking for something impossible here, and I can't recommend something that doesn't exist. If you spend the time to collect yourself and figure out what you want, maybe then I can help a little more.
Would something like aristocrats interest you?
You ca on tweak it wimp the skmething like solemnity and geralf's messenger as the win condition.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Thanks! Unfortunately those are a little bit out of my budget now. I'm considering going Dredge, even though I can put together a 4C Gifts (which doesn't seem to bee too competitive).
A lot of this stems from my Legacy experience — after picking up Death and Taxes about a year ago, I've found I don't enjoy any other deck nearly as much, which sort of turned me off to Modern for the last six months or so. I've tried both Modern DnT in all forms and Humans, but neither really fits with my enjoyment of Legacy humans (the DnT mainly because it isn't a great deck). Help me out! I'm open to all sorts of suggestions, and will list important information below.
Cards you already own
I can flex hard enough into a different deck that I don't mind acquiring cards. The only caveat there is I would rather not have to deal with getting Mox Opals or Chalice of the Voids, as I feel they are crazy expensive right now and won't keep their value if we get a legitimate reprint in something like Masters 25.
Cards you like to play
Man, Stoneforge Mystic is rad. That card alone and the various lines of play afforded to me in Legacy feels both rewarding and satisfying, mostly as though I've been able to set up a good gameplan. I can also analyze well where a line went wrong, which I also love to do. Other cards that can slow down fast combo are nice as well, because it feels good to have my opponent be thrown off their game plan.
Style you like to play
Well, Legacy Death and Taxes, that style of deck. Mainly a deck that prefers to get to the midgame, because 50-minute rounds really suck (I've played some slow decks in the past and hoo boy do GPs suck without bathroom breaks). I played Ad Nauseam as well, and I've owned Living End for about five years now and play it off and on, although I prefer it being a backup deck. The first Modern deck that really got me into the format was Amulet Bloom back in the day, even though I've had Living End for longer.
Not sure what else to say — let me know and I can try to provide more information! It seems like a combo-midrange deck would be good (pls Twin unban). I would have to say I do not like playing Blue decks as much, but prefer White/Black strategies.
I'm back asking you some advices about more investment in our beloved card game. I'm back on the low side with Ad Nauseam as my maindeck, but I've had an history with several decks:
- I had Burn twice, in 2014 and 2017. Played 3 months with it, got bored.
- I had Living End twice between 2013-2015 and 2017 again. Love it, it's just redundant when my pet deck is Ad Nauseam.
- I played Storm but I'm just bad at it...
- I had Grixis Control and Jeskai control in the Summer of 2017, loved to play it, but wasn't winning much with it. However, it felt great to play.
So I'm thinking about buying into control again because I want to invest in some staples (Snapcaster Mage, Cryptic Command, Flooded Strand, etc.). I'm leaning between Grixis Control, Jeskai Control and Esper Control. I'll have around 800$ to spend, so money is not an issue (aside maybe Scalding Tarn, so that's why Esper Control or U/W Control even could be more afforfable price-wise).
1. I'm playing mostly against Storm, U-Tron and Affinity. Some Bloo, some Ad Nauseam too. But mostly, I want my control deck to be the best against Storm, Tron and Affinity : what would you advice?
Cheers and thanks!
Tom
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Some decks that might interest you
Blitzkreig - blood moon control
Company combo
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Then my collection went missing.
While I really liked those decks when I played them, I'm still holding out hope that I might recover my collection, so I'd rather not build them again, but I still want to play Modern at a competitive level. My preferred style of play varies, but I've mostly enjoyed control variants and combo decks. Currently, the only expensive cards I have are some Flooded Strands, Hallowed Fountains, a Misty Rainforest, a Bloodstained Mire, a Wooded Foothills, and one of each shock in Temur colors.
What's a reasonably well-positioned deck that I can build for my playstyle?
Just want to repost it to have some advices!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Consistent meta is comprised of a bunch of jank but also 2 affinity, 2 burn, 2 merfolk, 2 storm, 2 Tron.
Is there anything decent vs 5 decks or at least a majority of them? I know it's a tall order.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
I'd say 5c humans fits that bill nicely.
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
Colors you like to play: Any, the best part about modern is that every color does a lot of cool things sometimes outside its normal wheelhouse.
Style I like to play:
Somewhat aggro oriented that is able to get under/fight through late game grindy decks.
Has some extent of unique, fun, thoughtful lines that reward knowledge and practice with the deck.
Resilient enough that it doesnt die to any specific hate cards.
Interacts just enough to be able to avoid auto losses to the faster goldfishing decks in the format.
Level you want to play at: I want to be able to have high levels of success at FNM while tailoring my SB to my meta but also want to maintain high expectations for Opens and such.
Because it's a fast aggro deck, you never auto lose to the fast goldfish decks. Goldfish decks tend to be aiming at turn 4 vacuously, which is the same turn you're trying to win. For example, a deck like Storm tries to win on turn 3 when it can, but it needs things to align perfectly, including you not having a Galvanic Blast. They're more so aiming for 4, which means you have chances to get under them. The general thing in Modern with aggro decks is that if you're a turn 4 goldfish aggro deck, you don't need to interact with combo decks because you can race them.
Despite it having very obvious weaknesses (artifact hate), it has always been a tier 1 deck. Literally the past 5 years it's always been a good deck. So even though sometimes you'll lose games from some hate cards, overall the hate isn't strong enough to push it out of the format. It top 8'd GP Toronto last weekend with basically a stock mainboard. At the PT, it had an 8-2 finish.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
If I wanted to beat Jace decks, and Tron decks, specifically (so Control and Tron) would I play Burn?
Spirits
Thanks for the suggestion, the reason I have yet to try this one is basically because it feels like a glass cannon to me, it doesnt feel very resilient and especially at a FNM level if im doing good with it ill see stony silence pop up left and right. Other than that it would be a perfect fit i think.... The same kind of goes for dredge... A lot of fun lines, good aggro, but just folds to RIP a lot of the time.
Ideally I think I would want something fun like affinity or dredge but maybe sacrificing some speed or explosiveness for resilience and interaction without going full midrange. Any ideas?
The problem I see is that you're asking for too many things, you can't get them all at once. Most aggro decks avoid losing to goldfish decks by being as fast as them. Sure, you can add interaction, that usually comes at the cost of sacrificing in other areas. What you originally wanted was:
1. Aggro oriented (i.e. not control, not combo, not midrange)
2. Fun/interesting gameplay that's rewarding for playing the deck extensively.
3. Resilient in a way that specific narrow hate cards aren't a problem.
4. Interactive enough to not outright lose to goldfish decks.
5. Competitive.
So let's trim 1 and 5 and just say we're picking a competitive aggro deck, and leaving that as our entire realm of possible decks. The list of decks then becomes: Humans, Burn, Affinity, Dredge, Hollow One, Bogles, Merfolk. Now let's consider which of criteria 2-4 each of them meets:
Burn (3, 4) - It's fast enough to race everything, so it inherently fills 4. It's also resilient enough not to lose to hate cards, the primary one is Leyline of Sanctity and you board in Destructive Revelry, so 3 isn't a problem. However, it's extremely linear, every game is just you playing cheap creatures and pointing burn spells at their face. You don't get to have interesting lines, your choices are whether to kill things on board to get creatures through, or point at their face.
Humans (3, 4) - It's a good deck and it's got a lot of interaction in cards like Kitesail Freebooter, Thalia, and Meddling Mage. That also tends to make it interactive enough, because you're essentially playing Thoughtseize in an aggressive deck. It apparently has a really good Storm matchup as a result, so it's definitely hitting 4. The fact you can outright stop answers means you don't lose to narrow hate cards, and realistically you're only concerned about sweepers. That being said, it doesn't fit 2. The deck is extremely linear, about as linear as Burn. It's not a rewarding deck either, you can learn the lines relatively quickly and then it'll get boring for you.
Affinity (2, 4) - Like Burn, you're fast enough to race everything. You're one of the most fun/interesting decks in the format, BUT you aren't super resilient. There are definitely pointed hate cards.
Dredge (2) - Unfortunately, it only fills condition 2 that the gameplay is interesting. Dredge is a cool mechanic and there are some cool things the deck can do. It's really not resilient to graveyard hate at all, RIP and Leyline of the Void kill you outright. It's also typically far from interactive, hoping to play against fair decks that can't keep up with their endless supply of threats.
Hollow One (2ish, 3) - It's kind of like Dredge except it cuts out the heavy Dredge stuff in order to be more resilient. It's fairly aggressive, not quite a turn 4 aggro deck in most cases, but not a midrange deck. The gameplay ranges from somewhat interesting to dull depending on who you ask. Your turns are usually not that exciting, it's pretty obvious a lot of the time to just play your Burning Inquiry/Goblin Lore and then cast Hollow One or Gurmag. It's definitely not interactive enough to beat goldfish decks, in fact the mainboard has basically only Bolts and Collective Brutality for interaction. It's a deck hoping to set the pace of the game.
Bogles (2ish, 3ish) - It can range from interesting to dull depending on who you're talking to. There usually isn't a lot of variety in the gameplay, just summon a dude and lay on the beef. It's largely resilient because enchantment hate is hard to find (i.e. nobody's packing Fracturing Gust), and hexproof creatures are just naturally resilient. It, however, opts not to interact. Dan Ward's list (top 8'd GP Toronto last weekend) had 2 Path and 3 Leyline as the interaction in his deck. It's a proactive deck that's trying to just put enough pressure on an opponent, but it's going to fold pretty hard to decks like Storm or Ad Nauseam most of the time.
Merfolk (3, 4ish) - It's definitely not losing to specific hate cards, it just plays creatures and more creatures and makes them big. Mass removal is a problem, though that's typically always an aggro deck's demise. It's somewhat interactive by virtue of being blue and playing cards like Vapor Snag/Dismember and Spreading Seas. The problem is that it literally plays out identically every game. Just play a critical mass of lords that your team is impossible to handle, and make them all unblockable. You're not getting rewarded much for learning the deck, you're learning how much to commit before you've over-committed but you're really not spending ages finding interesting lines.
So of the 7 competitive aggro decks I listed out, none of them met every criteria. You can pick up to 4 of the 5 you wanted, but not all 5. Sacrifice on aggro, we'll find you another deck that's interesting and has general game. Sacrifice on interactiveness and we'll find you an aggro deck that ignores the opponent. It's just that when you're trying to get all of them, such a deck sometimes does not exist.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Wow that was an amazing response. I greatly appreciate that. If I wanted to say remove the requirement of being an aggro deck would that open options and potentially open up #2-5 on my list? I would potentially change #4 slightly:
1. Aggro oriented (i.e. not control, not combo, not midrange)
2. Fun/interesting gameplay that's rewarding for playing the deck extensively.
3. Resilient in a way that specific narrow hate cards aren't a problem.
4. Interactive enough to not outright lose to goldfish decks. Has game vs BBE/Jace Decks(FOTM for sure here)
5. Competitive.
We're now looking for competitive decks that are interesting and can't be hated out easily. I'll exclude all aggro decks to keep this list short again, and pick a few that seem like they may fit.
BGx (2ish, 3, 4) - It's really resilient since it's just goodstuff.deck, and it has play against all decks by virtue of powerful creatures, answers, and interaction like Thoughtseize. It's actually quite good against goldfish decks like Storm because of targeted discard. The gameplay is interesting enough just because you have a variety of cards in your deck, and wins tend to be cobbled together from however you end up drawing as opposed to a specific win condition. Note that BGx is a BBE deck if you play Jund, you could play Abzan instead or just straight BG (not sure which variant is the best).
UWx Control (2ish, 3, 4) - This actually nicely fits all the categories. It's resilient because it plays lots of counterspells and answers, so you tend not to have a lot of hate cards against you just in general. The fact it's playing all answers is why it's interactive enough not to lose to goldfish decks. It has rewarding gameplay for playing it longer, since you'll learn the format and learn what things are and aren't problems, and typically Ux tempo/control decks tend to fall into this category of rewarding you for practice. It's also a Jace deck, so there's that. It's gonna most likely end up either UW and just slot in Jace, or some UWR midrange/control shell with Jace.
Grixis Shadow (2, 3, 4) - Definitely interesting gameplay, the idea of killing yourself to win is different and unique. Because you have to pain yourself, you get into situations where you need to figure out how much life is safe in the current game, making games feel different. It's resilient because even if they bring in graveyard hate, you can board into cards like Young Pyromancer or Liliana to diversify. The fact it plays removal and counters plus targeted discard makes goldfish decks not losses, and I think because your good cases are powerful, you'll be able to compete with BBE and Jace. Hard to say how good, but it won't be abysmal.
Traverse Shadow (2, 3, 4) - Basically the same as Grixis Shadow, except your threats are more diverse because of Tarmogoyf instead of needing dredge. It's effectively a mash of BGx and Grixis Shadow.
Lantern Control (2, 3ish, 4) - Lantern has interesting gameplay (not fun to a lot of people though), it's certainly a lot different than other things. It's somewhat resilient in that you keep answers to their answers in your deck, and you have lots of redundancy. Certain hate cards aren't even that bad as well. It, however, might end up the way of Affinity if it becomes a problem, especially since it's a deck people love to hate. By virtue of interacting with the top card then it has enough interaction.
Eldrazi and Taxes (2ish, 3, 4) - The idea of a deck always playing hate makes it good and interactive against goldfish strategies. It's resilient because it makes it hard to interact with it. It's somewhat interesting because each deck requires a different way to interact, but it's always generally approaching games the same (hate out your opponent with what hate cards you draw until you are up enough resources).
Maybe something there catches your eye, maybe not. Again, we can always iterate on what constraints you want to apply to find the deck.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
I sold a lot of my collection last year, but want to buy into a single modern deck over the next month for a summer GP's side events nearby. I still have a few pieces of burn and merfolk (along with a desire to not spend a month's rent on a deck). In fact, I'm considering trading in the remainder of my cards to my LGS in order to buy the rest of either deck.
My meta is very competitive, very diverse, so there's no specific matchup that requires my focus. Just wondering whether to drop about $350 on either, maybe half of which I can get via trade in.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Well knowing WOTC that card would be printed in green, but thank you.
Probably only Grixis Death's Shadow is viable for you. Every deck not base blue is too expensive, and any blue deck requiring Cryptic Command is going to be too expensive (two Cryptics will break your budget). UW decks are likely going to want Colonnade, which also breaks your budget. So you have to be base UR and not playing white, while also not being a control deck.
For GDS, you probably only need to grab Tasigur and Death's Shadow. The rest of it you should hopefully have, or be able to substitute (i.e. no Liliana isn't the worst).
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
If you want some better advice, maybe trying to organize your thoughts a little better and posting the things we're looking for (budget, strategies, etc.) will help. It's hard to tell what you're looking for, you seem to just be asking for a better deck but I have no idea how much you're willing to spend.
It's also unclear exactly what you even want to play. You seem to want a deck that: a) wins by turn 4, b) people aren't playing, c) is not only FNM competitive but also good enough to place at GPs or SCGs, d) is not an aggro deck but also still wins by turn 4, e) doesn't lose to key hate cards like Blood Moon (and I assume similar decks). You're basically asking for something impossible here, and I can't recommend something that doesn't exist. If you spend the time to collect yourself and figure out what you want, maybe then I can help a little more.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer