I apologize, im new here, but can someone tell me how this card is good? it's a 2/2 for 4 CMC, for a one-time return to hand effect, thank you, am i missing something?
It's very flexible. It's not the best answer to many situations, but it's a not bad answer against a lot of things. Can answer troublesome permanents (even lands) for a time and beat key spells on the stack.
Venser, Shaper Savant can bounce uncounterable spells, much like Mindbreak Trap can exile them. Sure, they can play them again, but it can at least stall if the opponent doesn't have mana to cast them again that turn.
Venser, Shaper Savant can bounce uncounterable spells, much like Mindbreak Trap can exile them. Sure, they can play them again, but it can at least stall if the opponent doesn't have mana to cast them again that turn.
Venser, Shaper Savant can bounce uncounterable spells, much like Mindbreak Trap can exile them. Sure, they can play them again, but it can at least stall if the opponent doesn't have mana to cast them again that turn.
Honestly, Venser is very versatile, but as Modern stands it's just too slow. In Legacy, with Karakas, you can replay him and he'll be played alongside something like ACTUAL COUNTERSPELLS and Vendillion Clique to get rid of it permanently.
Currently, I'd consider Modern to be too fast, with too many cheap spells, for him to be considered playable. Like if Remand cost double.
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As phone said, vensor actually sees some legacy play in miracles as he is an answer all tool that synergizes well with karakas in the slow game that miracles wants to play out. Vendillion clique is still a much better tool than he is for the fact that clique can lock out the draw step. In modern he could really only see play in a blue moon deck to some effect and maybe a deck such as eternal ruse that is looking to drag the game on until you are fairly well locked out and it can establish it's win conditions. Otherwise he is pretty much horrible in modern without having a karakas like effect. You could maybe argue that he could earn a slot in twin to help against cards like ghostly prison and other effects yo that nature, but echoing truth and remand are still better cards for that slot.
In Legacy, Venser, Shaper Savant can bounce close to anything your opponent cheats in with Show and Tell and forces him/her to feed more mana to Sneak Attack (which they occasionally can't pay this turn). ...Yeah, there's no SnT or Sneak Attack in Modern, and Through the Breach isn't anywhere near as common around these parts.
Venser, Shaper Savant can bounce uncounterable spells, much like Mindbreak Trap can exile them. Sure, they can play them again, but it can at least stall if the opponent doesn't have mana to cast them again that turn.
But then they just cast Emrakul again next turn (as they still get the extra turn) and get another extra turn from doing so.
Oh, missed that part... at least since I've never had a Venser I never did that before makes that a good thing I didn't cheat that way by accident.
To be fair, at least you're up a guy after you bounce an Emrakul on the stack and they re-cast her! (They're also up a card and a Karn/Ugin activation, though...)
Thank you for the replies, I was just a little confused. My friend told me that I needed venser in my turbo fog deck as a win condition, but I don't think this guy is a win condition by any means. Also what's up with the $12.99 price tag? I don't see him run in many decks
Thank you for the replies, I was just a little confused. My friend told me that I needed venser in my turbo fog deck as a win condition, but I don't think this guy is a win condition by any means. Also what's up with the $12.99 price tag? I don't see him run in many decks
As mentioned, he does see some play outside of Modern, and on top of that, he's an older card, and older sets were printed far less than newer sets, so for in-demand cards from older sets, their price often gets inflated beyond how much they are used compared to newer sets, like Damnation, when they don't get much in the way of reprints in newer sets. That is just a natural component of Magic's growth as a game.
He is an excellent tempo play because he can often stall your opponent for a whole turn if they play a big spell while also giving you a 2/2 body. He also bounces any permanent and that can be very versatile. He can even bounce back a land at the end of your opponent's turn! He becomes very good with Restoration Angel. I run him in my Bant deck. Sending back uncounterable spells is very good.
Venser is a solid card that suffers from the classic 4 cmc problem in modern: it needs to be siege rhino tier to see top level play. Note he also doesn't line up particularly well against that rhino (does anything?).
Even returning abrupt decay to an opponent's hand doesn't do much: at 4cmc returning a 2 cmc card often results in that card being played again. So you just taxed an extra 2 mana with 4 mana and a bear - not the most stellar employment of the card. Therefore you will usually use him to rescue creatures against abrupt decay, making restoration angel better for the saved tempo (or replaying a bounced creature) and much better body.
Venser has a lot of upside in some narrow situations. I run him in my Bant Hatebears deck and he can be a pretty hilarious blowout at times. Some draws the deck can just tempo out bouncing lands or spells (example sequence: t1 noble, t2 smiter/geist, t3 venser, t4 angel).
Venser also take adavantage of certainlands if you are running other legends like thalia
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
In the right build Venser is a real problem for the opponent, often because it's unexpected. I have him in the sideboard in a ninja bear delver deck and he's the answer for all sorts of stuff. He remands spells (including stuff like abrupt decay and supreme verdict, he bounces big dudes, he can shut down scapeshift by bouncing a mountain, he can flash in to bounce then block, he can flash in to save one of my permanents, at the worst he's an ambush viper. The perfect card? No, but in the right deck very solid. You sort of have to think of it as cryptic command junior with a body. I do like Venser better than Ojutai's Command at this point (not that anyone is comparing them).
On the price: price isn't tied to a card's playability, but to it's demand. When people stop wanting to buy a card it's price goes down.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
This is the Modern subforum. If you would like to talk about this then I suggest you go to the EDH subforum, or if the discussion wants to be brought back then start a new topic.
Venser can even bounce on the stack stuff like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
Oh, missed that part... at least since I've never had a Venser I never did that before makes that a good thing I didn't cheat that way by accident.
Currently, I'd consider Modern to be too fast, with too many cheap spells, for him to be considered playable. Like if Remand cost double.
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
To be fair, at least you're up a guy after you bounce an Emrakul on the stack and they re-cast her! (They're also up a card and a Karn/Ugin activation, though...)
As mentioned, he does see some play outside of Modern, and on top of that, he's an older card, and older sets were printed far less than newer sets, so for in-demand cards from older sets, their price often gets inflated beyond how much they are used compared to newer sets, like Damnation, when they don't get much in the way of reprints in newer sets. That is just a natural component of Magic's growth as a game.
Even returning abrupt decay to an opponent's hand doesn't do much: at 4cmc returning a 2 cmc card often results in that card being played again. So you just taxed an extra 2 mana with 4 mana and a bear - not the most stellar employment of the card. Therefore you will usually use him to rescue creatures against abrupt decay, making restoration angel better for the saved tempo (or replaying a bounced creature) and much better body.
Venser has a lot of upside in some narrow situations. I run him in my Bant Hatebears deck and he can be a pretty hilarious blowout at times. Some draws the deck can just tempo out bouncing lands or spells (example sequence: t1 noble, t2 smiter/geist, t3 venser, t4 angel).
Venser also take adavantage of certain lands if you are running other legends like thalia
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
On the price: price isn't tied to a card's playability, but to it's demand. When people stop wanting to buy a card it's price goes down.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Pay 8 cast comander oh look Venser, Shaper Savant
put comander in hand? K CASCADE 2 leggo.
Or Mael is in play cast Venser put Mael in hand? K.
Or put on Deadeye Navigator 2 mana *bounce everything* gg
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MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge