Rending Volley is SO close to being awesome. I still think the extra mana and the prevention clause is relevant. Plus that 5 toughness barrier is still there. Great card against Twin though, should see some sideboards.
"If fetch lands are reprinted I really believe they will be in allied colors (aka Onslaught fetches). If the fetch lands are reprinted you better believe that we'll all be fetching up basics. This would lead me to believe that the set after THS may have a reprint as the temples can't be fetched but it's pure speculation." - posted 03/22/2014 proved correct during Khans spoiler season.
"The set releases for fall 2015 (Blood, Sweat and Tears) and fall 2016 (Lock, Stock and Barrel). One or both of those 2 blocks (I'm betting) are going to contain either Fetch reprints or (more likely) Filter reprints. Filter lands still need a reprint. They are getting pretty high up there and it's been longer than ZEN so it makes a little more sense that Filter lands would see print earlier that fetches." - posted 03/22/2014 proved incorrect about filters coming earlier than fetches, still pending on filters in Origins block.
I'm honestly hoping the red hoser is terrible. Burn has been a legitimate top tier deck for at least half a year now, and has occasionally even threatened to be dominant. Despite that it continues to get improvements nearly every set, and the latest Command has given it even more resilience to hate in a package that's versatile enough to go in the maindeck. At this rate it feels like it's just a matter of time before half of all my sideboards will be dedicated life gain, and that's not a day I'm looking forward to.
Burn's success has had very little to do with the burn spells, though - even Stoke the Flames is only as effective as it is because of Rabblemaster and sometimes Hordeling tokens. Red has needed more efficient burn spells for years, not to rely on overefficient creatures like Rabblemaster and Stormbreath (hardly a red trademark). The support more traditional styles of red cards (weenies and cheap burn) are getting in this set and to a lesser extent Reforged (Wild Slash) is welcome, whatever its temporary impact on Standard (and I hate Rabblemaster-dominated Standard as much as anyone).
Has Sidisi been ruled out as being Modern-relevant?
I agree with a previous poster that seeing more exploit would be welcome; right now black seems to be lagging behind the other colours for playability in every format.
You'll wanna catter to it a bit. Stuff like Stangleroot giest would be goot to run with it as well. I wouldnt go overboard, but theres no reason not to run that card (maybe even young wolf) as well.
The 3/2 for GG is strictly better than Garruk's Companion. It can definitely grow huge, but as a 2-drop, you'd want a 1-drop that ETBs with +1/+1 counters on it for those explosive starts. Sadly the selection of 1-drops with +1/+1 counters is crap - Bond Beetle, Simic Initiate, Clockwork Beetle, Arcbound Worker. Not to mention, mono-green means you have terrible combo matchups.
It does work well with Anafenza or Allies, but those cards cost WW.
And E1. I'm aware that it wouldnt trigger him turn 2, but thats not the point. The deck that wants him is mono green stompy. Theres no doubt thats his home. And with the lens of that deck on, I see him as more of a turn 2 3/2 reach trample (not bad) if you cast him there. If the game has gone on, you have an ooze that ate something, a 3/3 E1 and a undead stangle root. Well you got a 2 mana 6/5.
Basically, as a stompy player I dont see him as a combo peice that needs to be powered up. I see him as a good 2 cmc beater, who scales if you draw him later on.
That seems his best home to me too, although the Shamans suggestion is interesting. I can't see a home for him in Standard, which was what I evaluated him against when considering his impact in another thread, but if there's a deck that wants it as a straight 3/2 and ideally has enough support for +1/+1 counters that it's also a relevant late-game play it will have a home.
I think Rending Volley is a lot better than Combust.
The only relevant card that Combust deals with, that Rending Volley does not, is Siege Rhino.. And I do not see anyone siding Combusts against Siege Rhino. Against every other relevant target, Volley is cheaper and kills them just as well.
I agree. People side in Slaughter Pact so that they can tap out/curve out beyond T3 against Twin. Leaving up 1 mana at all times is a lot less than leaving up 2 mana.
Rending Volley is SO close to being awesome. I still think the extra mana and the prevention clause is relevant. Plus that 5 toughness barrier is still there. Great card against Twin though, should see some sideboards.
Agree, really wish this had been Combust instead, then it could deal with Rhino.
I think Rending Volley is a lot better than Combust.
The only relevant card that Combust deals with, that Rending Volley does not, is Siege Rhino.. And I do not see anyone siding Combusts against Siege Rhino. Against every other relevant target, Volley is cheaper and kills them just as well.
I often bring in Combust for Rhino. In my UWR I have a Flashfreeze, Celestial Purge, and Combust in the board. Oddly enough all 3 answer Rhino.
Rending Volley is SO close to being awesome. I still think the extra mana and the prevention clause is relevant. Plus that 5 toughness barrier is still there. Great card against Twin though, should see some sideboards.
Agree, really wish this had been Combust instead, then it could deal with Rhino.
Why would you board this in against a Rhino deck? Rhino is the only thing in the deck it can hit except for Lingering Souls tokens, but that's a horrible rate if you're using Combust to kill a quarter of a card. What are you going to do if they beat you down with 'Goyfs and Tasigurs and LS Tokens and you don't see a Rhino? Combust is NOT a card you board in against Abzan. Plus if you really want Combust just run it, it exists in Modern already and is cheap.
Why would you board this in against a Rhino deck? Rhino is the only thing in the deck it can hit except for Lingering Souls tokens, but that's a horrible rate if you're using Combust to kill a quarter of a card. What are you going to do if they beat you down with 'Goyfs and Tasigurs and LS Tokens and you don't see a Rhino? Combust is NOT a card you board in against Abzan. Plus if you really want Combust just run it, it exists in Modern already and is cheap.
Amen.
No one who runs Combust in the board does so to also hit Rhino. Can you imagine boarding this in against Junk? What on earth are you supposed to do about that turn 2 Goyf and turn 3 Tas with that card sitting in your hand? Now, this might be the start of a case for Roast, but that's separate and has nothing to do with either Combust or Rending Volley.
Volley is a great card against Twin because it gets around Spellskite like Combust but costs that critical 1 less mana. You still have to worry about stuff like Mizzium Skin, but that card sees much less play than do things like Dispel, Negate, and Spell Pierce. It's a bit more narrow than I would want sideboard cards to be in this format, but it's still a very strong effect.
I thinkkkk Volley is better than combust... like in a vacuum. I'm not saying its better in terms of meta.
And before everyone jumps on my butt, I'm not saying combust is better in the meta either. I'm just talking about paper craft theory here.
Combust kills 5 power and also has a cant be prevented clause. That means on the off case someone magically has out Mark of Asylum (literally the only prevention spell I know that sees play. And only sometimes in g/w), volley aint doing it. Again, super corner case, but I still want to have it out there on the off chance that it helps the devils argument.
The 5 to 4 damage is more realistic as a problem. When it comes to blue the creatures you wanna kill with combust are merfolk lords, kira glass spinner, delver, deceiver exarch, V clique, mistbind clique, creeping tarpit, pestermite, Master of Etherium, Blighted Agent, and thats about all the blue creatures that ever see play ever.
Shouting out the white creatures, we got colonnade, baneslayer, angel tokens, smiter, rhino, finks, liege, Voice of Resurgence, Voice of Resurgence token, Restoration Angel, wall of omens, Aven Mindcensor, linger souls, Qasali Pridemage, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Ajani's Pridemate, hero of blade hold.
Now we slice out the ones that they both kill, and our list shrinks to:
Master of Etherium
Blighted Agent
Siege Rhino
baneslayer
Voice of Resurgence token
Iona, Shield of Emeria and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Shrink that list more without the conditional stuff (aka could be bigger than 4, but also could be bigger than 5) and stuff that can still be killed via 4 damage plus Bolt, but the extra damage would have mattered (meaning the extra point of damage 7 vs 8 is irrelivent, but 5 off combust woulda been enough) and heres what we got.
Siege Rhino
baneslayer
Now... take off the one that sees play once... a year maybe, and we only got rhino left. We can all agree that the prevention clause doesnt really do much in this current meta game, or in modern in general. So we can pretty confidently say Other than Rhino, volley is a better card in modern than combust.
The question is how much do you, the red player, value combusting rhino? I know that as a zoo player with combust in my side, I don't side it in vs junk if its rock junk. Only if its little kid, because I have 12+ targets for it. and even then, volley probably does the same job, just hits. 4 less creatures.
In summery: If you're using volley for anti twin, you have a great great card. If you wanted to also use it for anti little kid junk? You're still fine, just a little worse then combust. Overall, I think volley is better in modern.
Why would you board this in against a Rhino deck? Rhino is the only thing in the deck it can hit except for Lingering Souls tokens, but that's a horrible rate if you're using Combust to kill a quarter of a card. What are you going to do if they beat you down with 'Goyfs and Tasigurs and LS Tokens and you don't see a Rhino? Combust is NOT a card you board in against Abzan. Plus if you really want Combust just run it, it exists in Modern already and is cheap.
It depends on the deck. Against Junk, sure Rhino is the only target. But against decks that have more white like Wilt Leaf Liege, Loxodon Smiter, and so on there are plenty of targets.
So here's the list after today's spoilers, keep in mind that this is a pretty large list of cards from one set and some of these cards are NOT gonna make the cut so don't go blow all your money on these things. That being said these have the most "potential" from my perspective to see play in an eternal format. Also we can't catch everything (Tasigur is a good example) so there may be surprises.
Rending Volley -- (as people have noted, Combust isn't sided in solely for the 5 toughness creatures. This card is 1 less mana and hits Deceiver Exarch, Restoration Angel, Celestial Colonnade etc... so for now it seems like there's competition for the UW hate. But we'll likely see either this take over, or some sort of split)
Avatar of the Resolute -- (Shaman's could bust this wide open, anything with counters honestly. A 6/5 for GG is nutty)
Atarka's Command -- (Cheap, effective, awesome for any proactive RG deck. Get's around Leyline of Sanctity, Skullcrack with ramp and pump+reach can never be a bad thing, especially for 2 mana)
Narset Transcendent -- (maybe, still think this won't have a home and is overhyped. But paying 4mana to draw 0.33 of a card and effectively gain 7 life isn't all bad)
Sarkhan Unbroken -- (still not sold on this guy yet either, Keranos seems better because of the indestructible clause to me, but others have pointed out good reasons for Sarkhan over Keranos. Like dragons and having another target to hit instead of your life total)
Anticipate -- (maybe, people have stated it's better than Telling Time but even if it is I'm still convinced)
It seems like they are trying to give U/W some love in this set though
So far Green is getting some luvin'
As always this is an open and ongoing discussion, cards that are in the format should always be considered when brewing with new spoiled cards. If you disagree or have another card suggestion let us know! We all want to try and stay... (in my best announcer voice) "Ahead of the Curve"
"If fetch lands are reprinted I really believe they will be in allied colors (aka Onslaught fetches). If the fetch lands are reprinted you better believe that we'll all be fetching up basics. This would lead me to believe that the set after THS may have a reprint as the temples can't be fetched but it's pure speculation." - posted 03/22/2014 proved correct during Khans spoiler season.
"The set releases for fall 2015 (Blood, Sweat and Tears) and fall 2016 (Lock, Stock and Barrel). One or both of those 2 blocks (I'm betting) are going to contain either Fetch reprints or (more likely) Filter reprints. Filter lands still need a reprint. They are getting pretty high up there and it's been longer than ZEN so it makes a little more sense that Filter lands would see print earlier that fetches." - posted 03/22/2014 proved incorrect about filters coming earlier than fetches, still pending on filters in Origins block.
I believe Anticipate is better than Telling time, from a statistical modeling perspective it makes sense.
Conditional on not having selected a card, that means that the conditional expected value of that card to you is less than that of a random card.
This is also a reason for collected company actually having a secondary "value" effect: on average the cards it puts to the bottom are cards that worth less to you than an average card, given that you didn't select these cards.
Basically the way I say it is Anti. is better the TT because you play Anti. to dig for cards you want, you play TT for the extremely small chance you get 2 cards you want. Anti. gets its job done correctly and efficiently while TT presumably wiffs a lot. Of course the Fetch argument is a valid one imo but in return I say that I would rather run a card fine by itself then run a card that relies on me running other cards that will not always be there.
Why would you board this in against a Rhino deck? Rhino is the only thing in the deck it can hit except for Lingering Souls tokens, but that's a horrible rate if you're using Combust to kill a quarter of a card. What are you going to do if they beat you down with 'Goyfs and Tasigurs and LS Tokens and you don't see a Rhino? Combust is NOT a card you board in against Abzan. Plus if you really want Combust just run it, it exists in Modern already and is cheap.
It depends on the deck. Against Junk, sure Rhino is the only target. But against decks that have more white like Wilt Leaf Liege, Loxodon Smiter, and so on there are plenty of targets.
Do people actually play that deck in your meta? It's non-existent here. All the Pod and Delver players quit and sold out of the format and everybody else just assumes the Wilt Leaf deck was a PT inbred deck.
I believe Anticipate is better than Telling time, from a statistical modeling perspective it makes sense.
Conditional on not having selected a card, that means that the conditional expected value of that card to you is less than that of a random card.
This is also a reason for collected company actually having a secondary "value" effect: on average the cards it puts to the bottom are cards that worth less to you than an average card, given that you didn't select these cards.
Keep in mind the power of fetchlands. Fetchlands allow Telling Time to be a keep 1 or keep 2. Anticipate can only ever keep 1.
Do people actually play that deck in your meta? It's non-existent here. All the Pod and Delver players quit and sold out of the format and everybody else just assumes the Wilt Leaf deck was a PT inbred deck.
There's a little bit of it. Locally people are more likely to create 4 color midrange concoctions using Rhino (there's no BG/x in the local meta), but speaking of only the competitive decks there's some. One of my spare decks I loan out happens to be that deck actually, so someone almost always has it.
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Instant
~ can't be countered
~ deals 4 to target blue or white creature
Looks pretty strong. Combust kills Rhino though but Volley puts less restrain on your mana so you can develop your board more easily
"The set releases for fall 2015 (Blood, Sweat and Tears) and fall 2016 (Lock, Stock and Barrel). One or both of those 2 blocks (I'm betting) are going to contain either Fetch reprints or (more likely) Filter reprints. Filter lands still need a reprint. They are getting pretty high up there and it's been longer than ZEN so it makes a little more sense that Filter lands would see print earlier that fetches." - posted 03/22/2014 proved incorrect about filters coming earlier than fetches, still pending on filters in Origins block.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Burn's success has had very little to do with the burn spells, though - even Stoke the Flames is only as effective as it is because of Rabblemaster and sometimes Hordeling tokens. Red has needed more efficient burn spells for years, not to rely on overefficient creatures like Rabblemaster and Stormbreath (hardly a red trademark). The support more traditional styles of red cards (weenies and cheap burn) are getting in this set and to a lesser extent Reforged (Wild Slash) is welcome, whatever its temporary impact on Standard (and I hate Rabblemaster-dominated Standard as much as anyone).
Has Sidisi been ruled out as being Modern-relevant?
I agree with a previous poster that seeing more exploit would be welcome; right now black seems to be lagging behind the other colours for playability in every format.
That seems his best home to me too, although the Shamans suggestion is interesting. I can't see a home for him in Standard, which was what I evaluated him against when considering his impact in another thread, but if there's a deck that wants it as a straight 3/2 and ideally has enough support for +1/+1 counters that it's also a relevant late-game play it will have a home.
I agree. People side in Slaughter Pact so that they can tap out/curve out beyond T3 against Twin. Leaving up 1 mana at all times is a lot less than leaving up 2 mana.
Turn 1: Land, Experiment One
Turn 2: Land, Hardened Scales, Rakdos Cackler (Experiment One and Cackler Both now 3/3)
Turn 3: Land, Avatar of the Resolute (Comes into play as a 6/5 trampler, evolves Experiment one to a 5/5). Still one open mana for Rancor/lightning bolt/mutant's prey.
I went 2-2 last time with the deck at FNM, this card might push it into winning a FNM Modern tournament.
One question. Why would you run Mutant's Prey over prey upon? Just tryin' to figure that one out.
Spirits
Agree, really wish this had been Combust instead, then it could deal with Rhino.
I often bring in Combust for Rhino. In my UWR I have a Flashfreeze, Celestial Purge, and Combust in the board. Oddly enough all 3 answer Rhino.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Amen.
No one who runs Combust in the board does so to also hit Rhino. Can you imagine boarding this in against Junk? What on earth are you supposed to do about that turn 2 Goyf and turn 3 Tas with that card sitting in your hand? Now, this might be the start of a case for Roast, but that's separate and has nothing to do with either Combust or Rending Volley.
Volley is a great card against Twin because it gets around Spellskite like Combust but costs that critical 1 less mana. You still have to worry about stuff like Mizzium Skin, but that card sees much less play than do things like Dispel, Negate, and Spell Pierce. It's a bit more narrow than I would want sideboard cards to be in this format, but it's still a very strong effect.
And before everyone jumps on my butt, I'm not saying combust is better in the meta either. I'm just talking about paper craft theory here.
Combust kills 5 power and also has a cant be prevented clause. That means on the off case someone magically has out Mark of Asylum (literally the only prevention spell I know that sees play. And only sometimes in g/w), volley aint doing it. Again, super corner case, but I still want to have it out there on the off chance that it helps the devils argument.
The 5 to 4 damage is more realistic as a problem. When it comes to blue the creatures you wanna kill with combust are merfolk lords, kira glass spinner, delver, deceiver exarch, V clique, mistbind clique, creeping tarpit, pestermite, Master of Etherium, Blighted Agent, and thats about all the blue creatures that ever see play ever.
Shouting out the white creatures, we got colonnade, baneslayer, angel tokens, smiter, rhino, finks, liege, Voice of Resurgence, Voice of Resurgence token, Restoration Angel, wall of omens, Aven Mindcensor, linger souls, Qasali Pridemage, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Ajani's Pridemate, hero of blade hold.
Now we slice out the ones that they both kill, and our list shrinks to:
Master of Etherium
Blighted Agent
Siege Rhino
baneslayer
Voice of Resurgence token
Iona, Shield of Emeria and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Shrink that list more without the conditional stuff (aka could be bigger than 4, but also could be bigger than 5) and stuff that can still be killed via 4 damage plus Bolt, but the extra damage would have mattered (meaning the extra point of damage 7 vs 8 is irrelivent, but 5 off combust woulda been enough) and heres what we got.
Siege Rhino
baneslayer
Now... take off the one that sees play once... a year maybe, and we only got rhino left. We can all agree that the prevention clause doesnt really do much in this current meta game, or in modern in general. So we can pretty confidently say Other than Rhino, volley is a better card in modern than combust.
The question is how much do you, the red player, value combusting rhino? I know that as a zoo player with combust in my side, I don't side it in vs junk if its rock junk. Only if its little kid, because I have 12+ targets for it. and even then, volley probably does the same job, just hits. 4 less creatures.
In summery: If you're using volley for anti twin, you have a great great card. If you wanted to also use it for anti little kid junk? You're still fine, just a little worse then combust. Overall, I think volley is better in modern.
It depends on the deck. Against Junk, sure Rhino is the only target. But against decks that have more white like Wilt Leaf Liege, Loxodon Smiter, and so on there are plenty of targets.
Rending Volley -- (as people have noted, Combust isn't sided in solely for the 5 toughness creatures. This card is 1 less mana and hits Deceiver Exarch, Restoration Angel, Celestial Colonnade etc... so for now it seems like there's competition for the UW hate. But we'll likely see either this take over, or some sort of split)
Display of Dominance -- (Liliana of the Veil and Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse protection)
Avatar of the Resolute -- (Shaman's could bust this wide open, anything with counters honestly. A 6/5 for GG is nutty)
Atarka's Command -- (Cheap, effective, awesome for any proactive RG deck. Get's around Leyline of Sanctity, Skullcrack with ramp and pump+reach can never be a bad thing, especially for 2 mana)
Collected Company -- (my favorite card spoiled so far, obviously needs a creature deck so dust off your Domri Rade's and Wild Nacatl's)
Kolaghan's Command -- (shock, reanimate, artifact hate and discard in an efficiently costed spell = very nice)
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit -- (Spirit Soldier with the bolster beats, plays well with Avatar of the Resolute)
Narset Transcendent -- (maybe, still think this won't have a home and is overhyped. But paying 4mana to draw 0.33 of a card and effectively gain 7 life isn't all bad)
Sarkhan Unbroken -- (still not sold on this guy yet either, Keranos seems better because of the indestructible clause to me, but others have pointed out good reasons for Sarkhan over Keranos. Like dragons and having another target to hit instead of your life total)
Anticipate -- (maybe, people have stated it's better than Telling Time but even if it is I'm still convinced)
It seems like they are trying to give U/W some love in this set though
So far Green is getting some luvin'
As always this is an open and ongoing discussion, cards that are in the format should always be considered when brewing with new spoiled cards. If you disagree or have another card suggestion let us know! We all want to try and stay... (in my best announcer voice) "Ahead of the Curve"
"The set releases for fall 2015 (Blood, Sweat and Tears) and fall 2016 (Lock, Stock and Barrel). One or both of those 2 blocks (I'm betting) are going to contain either Fetch reprints or (more likely) Filter reprints. Filter lands still need a reprint. They are getting pretty high up there and it's been longer than ZEN so it makes a little more sense that Filter lands would see print earlier that fetches." - posted 03/22/2014 proved incorrect about filters coming earlier than fetches, still pending on filters in Origins block.
Conditional on not having selected a card, that means that the conditional expected value of that card to you is less than that of a random card.
This is also a reason for collected company actually having a secondary "value" effect: on average the cards it puts to the bottom are cards that worth less to you than an average card, given that you didn't select these cards.
Legacy: Maverick
Basically the way I say it is Anti. is better the TT because you play Anti. to dig for cards you want, you play TT for the extremely small chance you get 2 cards you want. Anti. gets its job done correctly and efficiently while TT presumably wiffs a lot. Of course the Fetch argument is a valid one imo but in return I say that I would rather run a card fine by itself then run a card that relies on me running other cards that will not always be there.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Keep in mind the power of fetchlands. Fetchlands allow Telling Time to be a keep 1 or keep 2. Anticipate can only ever keep 1.
There's a little bit of it. Locally people are more likely to create 4 color midrange concoctions using Rhino (there's no BG/x in the local meta), but speaking of only the competitive decks there's some. One of my spare decks I loan out happens to be that deck actually, so someone almost always has it.