Yeah Blue Moon has put up a bit of results as of lately. I don't know if it's the absence of "Jund/Junk/GB type decks," but it has done decently. I actually would have thought UR Delver to be a poor matchup, but since I only played Blue Moon before the printing of Treasure Cruise, I really don't know.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
How many times do we need to go over this. The issue with Jace isn't his power level. Its that they want modern to be accessible to newer players(see MM 2015 and KTK fetches), and if he is legal he is a 100+ dollar card. If he ever comes back to modern itll be coincided with a return to standard (not likely ever)
Meanwhile Tarmogoyf.
In all seriousness, I do wish there was room for a more Draw/Go style control deck in Modern. Hopefully Wizards is paying attention to its lack of viability in the coming months.
It is funny that a few months ago people were complaining about how Birthing Pod was unplayable thanks to UR Delver. Didn't even Sam Pardee get in on that?
Some did. Others took the approach that it was just a matter of changing the deck. At the time it was built very poorly to deal with Burn, and you're not favored against Delver. Those two decks made up almost 50% of the format so it was a valid criticism. Since then Burn declined and the deck changed in construction enough that it wasn't using it's life total too aggressively. Delver you're only about 45% against but some of the recent builds, especially with the ability to get Siege Rhino give you a line of play that can usually win.
Another GP and no control. Can we get Jace or Counterspell yet?
How many times do we need to go over this. The issue with Jace isn't his power level. Its that they want modern to be accessible to newer players(see MM 2015 and KTK fetches), and if he is legal he is a 100+ dollar card. If he ever comes back to modern itll be coincided with a return to standard (not likely ever)
To be honest, the expense part rings a bit hollow when Tarmogoyf is more than twice as expensive as Jace is. And for that matter, probably sees more play than Jace would.
Though Jace is still a bit of a risky unban. I'd much rather see Ancestral Vision come off first, as that's far more safe and Ancestral Vision should never have been banned to begin with. It's certainly an unban that benefits control more exclusively than a Jace unban would.
Another GP and no control. Can we get Jace or Counterspell yet?
How many times do we need to go over this. The issue with Jace isn't his power level. Its that they want modern to be accessible to newer players(see MM 2015 and KTK fetches), and if he is legal he is a 100+ dollar card. If he ever comes back to modern itll be coincided with a return to standard (not likely ever)
To be honest, the expense part rings a bit hollow when Tarmogoyf is more than twice as expensive as Jace is. And for that matter, probably sees more play than Jace would.
Only because JTMS is not legal in Modern. If it was unbanned Goyf would have a friend in that rarefied air.
Only because JTMS is not legal in Modern. If it was unbanned Goyf would have a friend in that rarefied air.
It is true that Jace would substantially increase in price if unbanned. However, I'd expect he wouldn't be much higher, if at all higher (once the initial rush wore off) than Tarmogoyf currently is.
Only because JTMS is not legal in Modern. If it was unbanned Goyf would have a friend in that rarefied air.
It is true that Jace would substantially increase in price if unbanned. However, I'd expect he wouldn't be much higher, if at all higher (once the initial rush wore off) than Tarmogoyf currently is.
I'm not so sure about that. Price memory is a thing. Just look at Bitterblossom. It has done literally nothing since being unbanned and is still sitting at $30.
I'm not so sure about that. Price memory is a thing. Just look at Bitterblossom. It has done literally nothing since being unbanned and is still sitting at $30.
That is a huge point, but with Goyf sitting at nearly $160 and Jace at $80, it would be hard pressed to go more than double. On second thought, it is entirely possible that the initial demand for Jace is very high and pushes it over. But, if it was reprinted in Modern Masters 2, that may help relieve some of it's price.
I do still think that Jace, the Mind Sculptor is too powerful for Modern and would do more harm than good (with how negatively most people view this card). I think unbanning Jace would make fewer people play Modern as opposed to increasing attendance. Look at what happened his first go around. (Legacy doesn't count because there's ridiculous cards like Show and Tell, BS, and Force of Will.)
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I'm not so sure about that. Price memory is a thing. Just look at Bitterblossom. It has done literally nothing since being unbanned and is still sitting at $30.
That is a huge point, but with Goyf sitting at nearly $160 and Jace at $80, it would be hard pressed to go more than double. On second thought, it is entirely possible that the initial demand for Jace is very high and pushes it over. But, if it was reprinted in Modern Masters 2, that may help relieve some of it's price.
I do still think that Jace, the Mind Sculptor is too powerful for Modern and would do more harm than good (with how negatively most people view this card). I think unbanning Jace would make fewer people play Modern as opposed to increasing attendance. Look at what happened his first go around. (Legacy doesn't count because there's ridiculous cards like Show and Tell, BS, and Force of Will.)
Why does what happened in Standard have any more relevance to Modern than what happens in Legacy?
I do still think that Jace, the Mind Sculptor is too powerful for Modern and would do more harm than good (with how negatively most people view this card). I think unbanning Jace would make fewer people play Modern as opposed to increasing attendance. Look at what happened his first go around. (Legacy doesn't count because there's ridiculous cards like Show and Tell, BS, and Force of Will.)
Standard attendance didn't decrease because of Jace. It decreased because Caw-Blade was a Tier 0 deck. Jace was part of its dominance, but it wasn't Jace so much as the combination of Jace, Stoneforge Mystic, Sword of Feast and Famine Batterskull, Squadron Hawk, and all the rest of Caw-Blade that made that deck so unstoppable. Putting the blame on Jace is unfair when it was him combined with all of those other cards (some of which are, incidentally, banned in Modern) that was so problematic.
It's like pinning all the blame for Affinity on Arcbound Ravager when it was actually Arcbound Ravager combined with a bunch of other cards that made Affinity way too good in Standard (and, like Caw-Blade some of those other cards are banned in Modern).
Jace was a big part of it. Nothing would have been banned if Jace wasn't printed. I didn't mind the deck at all myself, using my own Caw Blade for play testing purposes. If you want a number, I would say that it would be approximately 50% Jace and 50% Stoneforge Mystic. I played Stoneforge Mystic myself in Boros Landfall and that deck was not a problem at all, despite how powerful Stoneforge Mystic was.
Players that just started playing during WW have memories of keeping poor hands, the opponent getting Jace out early and doing +2 and them not finding a 3rd land.
Planeswalkers are in fact underrepresented in Modern, with only Liliana of the Veil seeing play. Jace would immediately see play and even in a turn 4 format where someone can Twin/etc., Jace is very powerful with a shell that could be made to make the best use of him.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Jace's problem is that they made him the face. Yes Stoneforge Mystic contributed, yes Squadron Hawk contributed, yes other cards contributed but for better or worse Jace became the scapegoat. Personally I would like to see Jace unbanned. I think the format could handle him, and I think that making the card legal is a good step towards making it more accessible which is something Legacy needs (and Modern would too if he were to be unbanned). I think the timing is wrong right now though. Maybe a year from now testing can show that Jace is fine and we'll have good datapoints to give Wizards an incentive to pair his unbanning with a reprint in Modern Masters 3.
Unbanning Jace is something that needs to be planned well in advance so that the price issues can be addressed in a timely fashion.
i actually disagree that jace would be too good for modern. 1. the format is full of fetches and cantrips, making his +2 not that strong. yes, fetches and ponder/preordain were around in ZEN/SOM standard, but the variety of decks in that format can't touch what modern has now. 2. brainstorming every turn is very good. i don't disagree with that. 3. his -1 is pretty terrible in a format where a creature pretty much has to do something the turn it comes into play. yes, there are exceptions, but typically most played creatures have an ETB effect, have ridiculous synergy with other parts of the deck, or stupidly efficient. 4. in a format full of bolts, 0-ing his first turn out is average to bad at best. yes, you're up a card (STILL a terrible argument), but 4 mana for a sorcery speed brainstorm is more than acceptable. 5. you'll never hit his ultimate..
however, i have changed my opinion i formulated a long time ago, where i stated that the standard counterparts of modern decks are better than whatever modern has to offer. we've reached the point where cards from other sets have sufficiently powered up decks to become better than what they were in standard. in fact, i would almost bet that cawblade can't beat beat pod, junk, or URx decks. i won't make a definitive claim because this requires testing.
as for GP Milan discussion. people who are still adamant about banning TC are losing more and more face every day.
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I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
so are replays for anything past round 3 of day 2 up? I've got some broken streams and a bit of Amulet of Vigor vs Pod final working, but nothing proper.
Ban islands. Islands to stronk. But seriously. There is no reason for AV to be banned. Let it come off and help control. Although it is not my playstyle of choice, those poor bastards need some help in this format
would delver play Ancestral Visions alongside cruise?
I don't think so. Ancestral Visions is a horrible top deck after turn 3; on the other hand, TC is a wonderful top deck after turn 3. This is a huge difference in delver decks.
blue moon in top 16?
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Meanwhile Tarmogoyf.In all seriousness, I do wish there was room for a more Draw/Go style control deck in Modern. Hopefully Wizards is paying attention to its lack of viability in the coming months.
Some did. Others took the approach that it was just a matter of changing the deck. At the time it was built very poorly to deal with Burn, and you're not favored against Delver. Those two decks made up almost 50% of the format so it was a valid criticism. Since then Burn declined and the deck changed in construction enough that it wasn't using it's life total too aggressively. Delver you're only about 45% against but some of the recent builds, especially with the ability to get Siege Rhino give you a line of play that can usually win.
Though Jace is still a bit of a risky unban. I'd much rather see Ancestral Vision come off first, as that's far more safe and Ancestral Vision should never have been banned to begin with. It's certainly an unban that benefits control more exclusively than a Jace unban would.
Only because JTMS is not legal in Modern. If it was unbanned Goyf would have a friend in that rarefied air.
I'm not so sure about that. Price memory is a thing. Just look at Bitterblossom. It has done literally nothing since being unbanned and is still sitting at $30.
That is a huge point, but with Goyf sitting at nearly $160 and Jace at $80, it would be hard pressed to go more than double. On second thought, it is entirely possible that the initial demand for Jace is very high and pushes it over. But, if it was reprinted in Modern Masters 2, that may help relieve some of it's price.
I do still think that Jace, the Mind Sculptor is too powerful for Modern and would do more harm than good (with how negatively most people view this card). I think unbanning Jace would make fewer people play Modern as opposed to increasing attendance. Look at what happened his first go around. (Legacy doesn't count because there's ridiculous cards like Show and Tell, BS, and Force of Will.)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Why does what happened in Standard have any more relevance to Modern than what happens in Legacy?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It's like pinning all the blame for Affinity on Arcbound Ravager when it was actually Arcbound Ravager combined with a bunch of other cards that made Affinity way too good in Standard (and, like Caw-Blade some of those other cards are banned in Modern).
Players that just started playing during WW have memories of keeping poor hands, the opponent getting Jace out early and doing +2 and them not finding a 3rd land.
Planeswalkers are in fact underrepresented in Modern, with only Liliana of the Veil seeing play. Jace would immediately see play and even in a turn 4 format where someone can Twin/etc., Jace is very powerful with a shell that could be made to make the best use of him.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Unbanning Jace is something that needs to be planned well in advance so that the price issues can be addressed in a timely fashion.
however, i have changed my opinion i formulated a long time ago, where i stated that the standard counterparts of modern decks are better than whatever modern has to offer. we've reached the point where cards from other sets have sufficiently powered up decks to become better than what they were in standard. in fact, i would almost bet that cawblade can't beat beat pod, junk, or URx decks. i won't make a definitive claim because this requires testing.
as for GP Milan discussion. people who are still adamant about banning TC are losing more and more face every day.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Bloom Titan in the top 8 is exciting, though! I love that deck.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
Try mtgcoverage.com
I don't think so. Ancestral Visions is a horrible top deck after turn 3; on the other hand, TC is a wonderful top deck after turn 3. This is a huge difference in delver decks.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
AV is more a durdle deck's card, and Delver decks traditionally don't durdle all that well.