UW/R aggro decks switch to treasure cruise.
UW/R control decks switch to dig through time.
Is Sphinx's Revelation already obsolete in Modern?
Also, is it not optimal to play the full 4x snapcaster mage, because it's anti-synergistic to the Delve draw spells?
I still play 1 revelation in my control deck. It is generally worse than dig through time but in the long games where you find yourself sitting on 9 mana it's functionally a game ender.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Sphinx's Revelation was always a fringe 1-2 of card before KTK came, and it's just too slow for the Modern format.
With that being said, it's typically a game ender against grindy GBx decks that have no permission. I can still get behind playing 1 in the main (or perhaps moving one to the board...)
I like it as a one of in dig based decks just so you can dump a bunch of mana into it lategame and you can reliably find 1 ofs with multiple dig through times. As a card in comparison to dig through time? Dig is light years ahead. It's like comparing fact or fiction to ancestral recall or fact or fiction to revelation for that matter. One is quite mana intensive the other quite cheap and as a result way more powerful.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
How ironic. Only a few months ago, I had been in at least a dozen arguments with people who insisted that Sphinx's Revelation was the most powerful card ever printed, ever, ever, EVAR! So powerful that merely setting the card on the table caused your opponent's deck and head to explode into spontaneous flames on the spot.
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What does being a 6-7 drop have to do with it? This card wins the game as soon as you park your car at the match, before you sign up, haven't you heard? Just ask any of the 10,000 belligerent screaming morons I've been fighting with since RTR was spoiled. Oh, no, 4x in every Legacy deck, might as well sell those Goyfs right now.
If you want to risk the wrath of Jehovah's lightning by blaspheming the name of Holy Sphinx's Revelation, be my guest.
Besides, I'm too busy hiding from the lynch mobs that are after me for opining that Waste Not does not, in fact, cure Ebola, AIDS, and cancer. And no matter what anybody tells you, including me, my white-bread BW Tokens deck definitely did not Top-8 against a gauntlet of Delver decks running Treasure Cruise. Because everybody knows that is impossible.
**EDIT** Relax, guys, I'm exaggerating for the sillies. Also remember that MTGSalvation isn't the only forum I talk about Magic in. Removed a potentially offensive line. 'Kay, we friends?
**EDIT2** Mods are on me on this post, so let me make amends: My point is that cards that let you draw more cards, especially in blue/X colors, just tend to get people more riled up than any other kind of card. I don't know why there's so much passion about this topic. Above all, I really, truly have seen players go off the deep end and just insist that card advantage all by itself wins games - full stop! Not just occasional trolls, not just on here.
I think it's hilarious. I think that along with a decklist of 4x Ponder, 4x Brainstorm, 4x Treasure Cruise, 4x Think Twice, 4x Ancestral Recall, 4x Dig through Time, 4x Opportunity, 4x Serum Visions, 4x Jace's Ingenuity, and 4x Divination, you might just maybe need a wincon, even just one Storm Crow, to make a deck an actual threat. People just really seem to lose their wig about this.
Modern: UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy: UWBMiracles
Edh: UUUThassa Control WWWHokori Stax GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy BBBGriselbrand French List RBGShattergang(Super Villians) RWGHazezon Flicker UBRMarchesa Aggro URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
What respectable player was hyping sphinx's revelation that much? Legacy play? C'mon.
Also historically BW tokens has an excellent delver matchup so that is not that surprising.
More on topic, yes Rev's time in the sun is waning. When and if there is a tick back to a grindier format with slower decks, it will find itself more slots in the main deck of UW players. BGx basically can't beat a resolved one.
I think people miss the 2 play together very well. Rev was never a draw card, it was a stablizer and game ender. It fits digging for one, then using it. Plus you never wanted to play 3-4 copies in modern, youd rather play 1-2... With dig, it being a one of, its gotten better as a card, not worse.
I think no one is respecting the control mirror in these comments, rev totally puts the game away excepting things like digging for a scapeshift and straight winning.
It only gets run as a 1 or 2 of, but its still fairly irreplaceable in UWx control decks, even if an occasional slot for one has been given over to DTT.
I guess I missed something, but I can't recall ever seeing a Sphinx's Revelation played against me at a major tournament. Like others said, I have to think it's way too slow for the format, even before Khans. Unless my local tournaments are skewed, I see a ton of Affinity, Burn, Storm, Pod, Twin, and Scapeshift, all of which have great games against any deck playing Rev. And post-Khans, I can't see any decks making a new splash (UR Delver) choosing Rev over Dig Through Time or Treasure Cruise.
tl;dr: I don't think Rev ever was a factor in modern.
I think these people who say they never saw a Sphinx Rev in Modern, don't play Modern.
This. I ignore user everyone who lets on that they don't actually play formats/decks/magic that they talk about or have excessive opinions over (like 50% of the participants in the banned thread).
Rev was/still is played as at least a singleton in every single UWx control deck in the format with rare rare rare exeption. If you haven't played against it you're new to modern/magically dodged this tier 1 deck, or don't play modern.
I think these people who say they never saw a Sphinx Rev in Modern, don't play Modern.
Ok, then let's go straight to the source of modern tournament reporting. According to MtgTop8.com, over the last 2 months, a cursory review of the top control decks reveal exactly two decks that run Sphinx's Revelation mainboard, both of which are UWx control, representing approximately 1% of the decks reported. Between both those decks, there are a total of 3 copies of the card (1 in one deck, 2 in another). Given any major tournament, the chances that I see a Sphinx's Revelation, JUST going off of mtgtop8, is very, very low. Tell me, Lord Hazanko, what tournaments are you going to where the card is so popular?
If you just started playing modern two months ago, and haven't played UWx control, then that makes a lot of sense. It'd take playing for more than a few months to know that the 1% stat off of mtgtop8 is garbage, along with most of the stats on that site.
UWx control previously has been a lot more popular as a share of the meta, and those that still run/have the deck play sphinx. As recently as GP Boston this summer it was expected to place in the top 8 of a major tournament--it got quite its share of qualifier wins in that event.
Modern isn't Standard where games ending before turn 6 is an anomaly. In Standard Rev could get a 2-3 point life swing on turns 5 or 6, draw into another rev, and keep chaining since they didn't have much pressure. In Modern you need much more impactful cards and drawing 2 cards and gaining 2 life for 5 mana just doesn't cut it. That's why it's more of a 1-of (sometimes 2 I suppose). The Control deck wants to see it late game, after stabilization, to secure the win, as opposed to using it as stabilization.
I play 2 revs in Esper and I don't run dig through time. I'm in the minority of esper players, most have switched to a split of Rev/Dig, but I personally prefer to have logic knots and snapcasters over dig.
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The people who compare DTT with Rev dont understand what the two cards do..... DTT is drawing 2 cards (so it nets you 1 card) Ya you can look through 7 to get those two, which is why it is a great card, but it is nowhere close to what Rev does....
Rev is often a one-sided start the game w 25-27 life and 12-14 cards.... you do not have to Rev for 10+ to make it effective.... doing it for 4+ can often change the game dramatically for that player.
Amalek is right, DTT is powerful but it costs you other cards (like Snap/Knot etc) to play it. The DTT is so much better than Rev is just narrow minded
Digging for a Rev is a lovely feeling, by the by. It gets you a bunch of cards and a bunch of life, enough to break parity.
Also I've never had an issue running Dig and Snaps in the same deck. If anything, I like it a lot, because it improves the decision trees- "do I Dig for UU, or do I leave a few cards that could be useful in the future in the yard?"
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
i hear this alot and just kinda go with it. but, and im sorry if this isnt the appropriate place to ask, why exactly is mtgtop8 garbage? and is there any point to using it at all or is it like, completely out there never use it never ever? also, if its the latter case, IS there a place for even semi-reliable statistics about the meta, the official thread on the meta here seems to insist that player-to-player speculation is more reliable than anything else.
i guess i might as well include something of relevance to the thread while im here
i've not seen nearly as many of the decks that used to run rev. and of teh ones i do see, they tend not to run rev (or, at least, i just dont see it). frankly im okay with dig replacing/pushing rev to a 1 of. it feels fair when it's resolved because it takes a metric *****-load longer for control decks to fill their yards. plus the minimum cost is 2 mana. its cruise, which shows up more often in delver and other tempo decks taht doesnt feel fair. but dw im not calling op or nothin. its not been out long enough.
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UW/R control decks switch to dig through time.
Is Sphinx's Revelation already obsolete in Modern?
Also, is it not optimal to play the full 4x snapcaster mage, because it's anti-synergistic to the Delve draw spells?
UB Fae
TES
Pox
With that being said, it's typically a game ender against grindy GBx decks that have no permission. I can still get behind playing 1 in the main (or perhaps moving one to the board...)
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If you want to risk the wrath of Jehovah's lightning by blaspheming the name of Holy Sphinx's Revelation, be my guest.
Besides, I'm too busy hiding from the lynch mobs that are after me for opining that Waste Not does not, in fact, cure Ebola, AIDS, and cancer. And no matter what anybody tells you, including me, my white-bread BW Tokens deck definitely did not Top-8 against a gauntlet of Delver decks running Treasure Cruise. Because everybody knows that is impossible.
**EDIT** Relax, guys, I'm exaggerating for the sillies. Also remember that MTGSalvation isn't the only forum I talk about Magic in. Removed a potentially offensive line. 'Kay, we friends?
**EDIT2** Mods are on me on this post, so let me make amends: My point is that cards that let you draw more cards, especially in blue/X colors, just tend to get people more riled up than any other kind of card. I don't know why there's so much passion about this topic. Above all, I really, truly have seen players go off the deep end and just insist that card advantage all by itself wins games - full stop! Not just occasional trolls, not just on here.
I think it's hilarious. I think that along with a decklist of 4x Ponder, 4x Brainstorm, 4x Treasure Cruise, 4x Think Twice, 4x Ancestral Recall, 4x Dig through Time, 4x Opportunity, 4x Serum Visions, 4x Jace's Ingenuity, and 4x Divination, you might just maybe need a wincon, even just one Storm Crow, to make a deck an actual threat. People just really seem to lose their wig about this.
Draft it Here!
UUUBlue Man Group
Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
Also historically BW tokens has an excellent delver matchup so that is not that surprising.
More on topic, yes Rev's time in the sun is waning. When and if there is a tick back to a grindier format with slower decks, it will find itself more slots in the main deck of UW players. BGx basically can't beat a resolved one.
"Draw-wise", Dig gives the better value.
Lifewise, it's better to play cards that actually gain life at a better rate.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
It only gets run as a 1 or 2 of, but its still fairly irreplaceable in UWx control decks, even if an occasional slot for one has been given over to DTT.
tl;dr: I don't think Rev ever was a factor in modern.
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Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsThis. I ignore user everyone who lets on that they don't actually play formats/decks/magic that they talk about or have excessive opinions over (like 50% of the participants in the banned thread).
Rev was/still is played as at least a singleton in every single UWx control deck in the format with rare rare rare exeption. If you haven't played against it you're new to modern/magically dodged this tier 1 deck, or don't play modern.
Ok, then let's go straight to the source of modern tournament reporting. According to MtgTop8.com, over the last 2 months, a cursory review of the top control decks reveal exactly two decks that run Sphinx's Revelation mainboard, both of which are UWx control, representing approximately 1% of the decks reported. Between both those decks, there are a total of 3 copies of the card (1 in one deck, 2 in another). Given any major tournament, the chances that I see a Sphinx's Revelation, JUST going off of mtgtop8, is very, very low. Tell me, Lord Hazanko, what tournaments are you going to where the card is so popular?
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsUWx control previously has been a lot more popular as a share of the meta, and those that still run/have the deck play sphinx. As recently as GP Boston this summer it was expected to place in the top 8 of a major tournament--it got quite its share of qualifier wins in that event.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
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Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Rev is often a one-sided start the game w 25-27 life and 12-14 cards.... you do not have to Rev for 10+ to make it effective.... doing it for 4+ can often change the game dramatically for that player.
Amalek is right, DTT is powerful but it costs you other cards (like Snap/Knot etc) to play it. The DTT is so much better than Rev is just narrow minded
Also I've never had an issue running Dig and Snaps in the same deck. If anything, I like it a lot, because it improves the decision trees- "do I Dig for UU, or do I leave a few cards that could be useful in the future in the yard?"
i guess i might as well include something of relevance to the thread while im here
i've not seen nearly as many of the decks that used to run rev. and of teh ones i do see, they tend not to run rev (or, at least, i just dont see it). frankly im okay with dig replacing/pushing rev to a 1 of. it feels fair when it's resolved because it takes a metric *****-load longer for control decks to fill their yards. plus the minimum cost is 2 mana. its cruise, which shows up more often in delver and other tempo decks taht doesnt feel fair. but dw im not calling op or nothin. its not been out long enough.