I'm using rhino in zoo, and until the meta shifts to be land hatey, or I get something better on COLOR. Hes sooooo good... and when I can go nacatl, goyf, giest, rhino, flames... Thats over 30 points of damage by turn 5. Stupid good.
as far as price goes? Its probably going to stay the same. Why? Its a rare, in a set that will be super drafted. It might go up towards the end of standard, then drop again.
I must admit that Siege Rhino helps some of Junk Pod's worst match-ups such as RG Tron, Breach Trap, and Scapeshift. The 3 points of life drain when it ETB is mean enough. Effectively dealing 7 damage after it swings just once is meaner. Blinking it with Restoration Angel is brutal. Get enough Rhinos together and you can win games by Turn 5 against decks that you have no right to having good match-ups against.
Opponents playing around Siege Rhino Bolt to the head when you don't play red is funny.
Yeah this card sucks. I hate playing against it. A 4/5 trample that casts Lightning Helix as it comes into play? really? Oh well I guess. That's Magic these days...
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Siege rhino is making the pod-matchup very boring. It has become so predictable that I can easily add Combust from the side against pod and I can use it everytime I do.
Siege rhino is making the pod-matchup very boring. It has become so predictable that I can easily add Combust from the side against pod and I can use it everytime I do.
There's nothing wrong with that. I do the same thing, but even with that, Rhino has "done its job" with the drain and gain. I think more importantly is the fact that Rhino has given Pod a lot more reach than what just Murderous Redcap can give. It singlehandedly has made Pod the deck it is now. People even play Rhino Pod without the combo occasionally. After all, it is an "answers" deck that can drain you out with Rhinos.
*I'm not saying that Pod was not good already. I'm just saying that Rhino put it on another level.
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At least Bloodbraid Elf wasn't a 4/5 trample. Also sometimes Elf would just cascade into something not so great. Cascading into a mana dork isn't so good.. Rhino is always casting Lightning Helix, and is always a huge trampling beater.
IMO the card is way over powered. Can you think of any other legal 4 drops that have that much power?
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At least Bloodbraid Elf wasn't a 4/5 trample. Also sometimes Elf would just cascade into something not so great. Cascading into a mana dork isn't so good.. Rhino is always casting Lightning Helix, and is always a huge trampling beater.
IMO the card is way over powered. Can you think of any other legal 4 drops that have that much power?
The power of Bloodbraid Elf is that it tends to Cascade into something more valuable than a Lava Spike attached to a Healing Salve. Sometimes, it Cascades into Thoughtseize when opponents are Hellbent or sandbagging lands, but often, the threat/answer it Cascaded into lured the counterspell/removal away from it. Rhino either eats one removal spell or eats one counterspell (although I must admit that some removal, such as Bolt, can't kill Rhino).
Sometimes, BBE Cascades into the precise answer you need to save your butt (such as Abrupt Decay for Pyromancer Ascension). That's something Rhino can't do.
Rhino is brutally powerful on the offence and solid on the defence, but you need more luck on your side for Rhino to do things fast enough against combo than for BBE to do things fast enough against combo.
Siege rhino is making the pod-matchup very boring. It has become so predictable that I can easily add Combust from the side against pod and I can use it everytime I do.
Combust has been good against pod for awhile. Linvala, Resto, Rhino, Baneslayer, Archangel of Thune.
Blood Braidelf has always been better in aggro decks (like zoo) than midrange decks. Everything it does there is good, cast critters or bolt. The haste matters too. If I could choose between rhino and elf in zoo, Id pick elf. Elf was also just the best 4 drop in magic at the time, so jund, a pile of good stuff as always its been, used it.
I disagree about Elf being better. I have had plenty of experiences where Elf cascaded into something useless and then got Bolted away. Every single time Rhino hits the field he ****s me up. And he's way harder to deal with(Out of range of almost all red, and some black removal). I guess the point i'm trying to make is that Elf isn't always good(although sometimes it can be amazing), but Rhino is almost always amazing.
You say Haste is relevant, well so is trample, and a 4/5 body, and gaining life, and draining your opponent.
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I disagree about Elf being better. I have had plenty of experiences where Elf cascaded into something useless and then got Bolted away. Every single time Rhino hits the field he ****s me up. And he's way harder to deal with(Out of range of almost all red, and some black removal). I guess the point i'm trying to make is that Elf isn't always good(although sometimes it can be amazing), but Rhino is almost always amazing.
You say Haste is relevant, well so is trample, and a 4/5 body, and gaining life, and draining your opponent.
The point I was trying to make is that BBE's worst-case scenario may be somewhat worse than Siege Rhino's, but BBE's best-case scenario is so much better than Rhino's best-case scenario against a lot of decks (mainly combo) than BBE is better overall. If Cruise/Dig were banned, I think Rhino would stay unbanned; I'd have a hunch they'd ban BBE again if Cruise/Dig were banned and BBE were unbanned at the same time (yes, even if UR Delver broke Temporal Trespass in the Cruise/Dig-banned meta, which I have a hunch they will from my testing).
Given that you seem to be mainly a combo(-control) fan and player, though, your comments about Rhino roughing you up despite never coming with anti combo-hate carry quite a bit more weight than Delver players' claims, though...
The point I was trying to make is that BBE's worst-case scenario may be somewhat worse than Siege Rhino's, but BBE's best-case scenario is so much better than Rhino's best-case scenario against a lot of decks (mainly combo) than BBE is better overall.
It is true that, on average, what Bloodbraid Elf cascades into will be better than Siege Rhino's enter the battlefield ability. The problem is that a 4/5 trampler is generally a lot more impressive than a 3/2 haste. Both of these factors must be considered when comparing them, and I think it evens out and puts them on about the same level of power... at least in decks that are going to always be casting them. In Birthing Pod, Siege Rhino is leagues better than Bloodbraid Elf.
There's really no comparison in card advantage potential. Bloodbraid Elf into Liliana is often a 3-for-1 on board. Rhino is a 1-for-1 on board. A bolt/helix to the face instead of killing a creature is very often a wasted card for midrange decks. Rhino is more comparable to Obstinate Baloth, a sideboard card against burn and fast aggro.
If you think those cards are even close to same power level you are insane...
Sure Elf into Lili can be a great play, but what if you don't have anything in hand you can discard? What if you cascade into Bolt and your opponent has no creatures? Now you paid 4 for A 3/2 haste, deal 3 dmg, which compared to 4 to cast a 4/5 trample, deal 3, gain 3.. is considerably weaker from all angles. What if you just cascade into a mana dork and proceed to get hit with Volcanic Fallout.
For every example where Elf does something great, there another example of it being equally as bad. Rhino is always good, all the time. He's a crazy clock for combo to deal with, he's super hard to remove(can't get hit with any red removal{except Combust}, can't be Abrupt Decay'd, can't get hit with a lot of blackremoval either), and does an INSANE job at stabilizing the opponent. I can't count how many games i've had the opponent at 10 life, looking like i was doing great, then comes the wall that is Siege Rhino, and instantly the game slipped away from me. For just 4 mana, Rhino stabilizes more than anything else i can think of.
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How can you not love this card? BBD is playing four of them in his Pod deck and it wouldn't surprise if this becomes the standard. Junk already plays four of them.
And the best thing about it is that the card is not ridiculously expensive compared to it's power and popularity.
I'd venture to say that most competitive pod decks don't run the melira combo at all, and I bet less than half run the angel/feeder combo. It's all tutoring for ETB dudes and the best midrange creature in the format.
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as far as price goes? Its probably going to stay the same. Why? Its a rare, in a set that will be super drafted. It might go up towards the end of standard, then drop again.
Opponents playing around Siege Rhino Bolt to the head when you don't play red is funny.
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5678There's nothing wrong with that. I do the same thing, but even with that, Rhino has "done its job" with the drain and gain. I think more importantly is the fact that Rhino has given Pod a lot more reach than what just Murderous Redcap can give. It singlehandedly has made Pod the deck it is now. People even play Rhino Pod without the combo occasionally. After all, it is an "answers" deck that can drain you out with Rhinos.
*I'm not saying that Pod was not good already. I'm just saying that Rhino put it on another level.
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At least Bloodbraid Elf wasn't a 4/5 trample. Also sometimes Elf would just cascade into something not so great. Cascading into a mana dork isn't so good.. Rhino is always casting Lightning Helix, and is always a huge trampling beater.
IMO the card is way over powered. Can you think of any other legal 4 drops that have that much power?
The power of Bloodbraid Elf is that it tends to Cascade into something more valuable than a Lava Spike attached to a Healing Salve. Sometimes, it Cascades into Thoughtseize when opponents are Hellbent or sandbagging lands, but often, the threat/answer it Cascaded into lured the counterspell/removal away from it. Rhino either eats one removal spell or eats one counterspell (although I must admit that some removal, such as Bolt, can't kill Rhino).
Sometimes, BBE Cascades into the precise answer you need to save your butt (such as Abrupt Decay for Pyromancer Ascension). That's something Rhino can't do.
Rhino is brutally powerful on the offence and solid on the defence, but you need more luck on your side for Rhino to do things fast enough against combo than for BBE to do things fast enough against combo.
Combust has been good against pod for awhile. Linvala, Resto, Rhino, Baneslayer, Archangel of Thune.
Hypothetically, if BBE was legal and Rhino didn't cost black mana, I think Rhino would get the nod over BBE in Zoo.
*opponent only
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Big Johnny.
You say Haste is relevant, well so is trample, and a 4/5 body, and gaining life, and draining your opponent.
The point I was trying to make is that BBE's worst-case scenario may be somewhat worse than Siege Rhino's, but BBE's best-case scenario is so much better than Rhino's best-case scenario against a lot of decks (mainly combo) than BBE is better overall. If Cruise/Dig were banned, I think Rhino would stay unbanned; I'd have a hunch they'd ban BBE again if Cruise/Dig were banned and BBE were unbanned at the same time (yes, even if UR Delver broke Temporal Trespass in the Cruise/Dig-banned meta, which I have a hunch they will from my testing).
Given that you seem to be mainly a combo(-control) fan and player, though, your comments about Rhino roughing you up despite never coming with anti combo-hate carry quite a bit more weight than Delver players' claims, though...
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
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If you think those cards are even close to same power level you are insane...
Sure Elf into Lili can be a great play, but what if you don't have anything in hand you can discard? What if you cascade into Bolt and your opponent has no creatures? Now you paid 4 for A 3/2 haste, deal 3 dmg, which compared to 4 to cast a 4/5 trample, deal 3, gain 3.. is considerably weaker from all angles. What if you just cascade into a mana dork and proceed to get hit with Volcanic Fallout.
For every example where Elf does something great, there another example of it being equally as bad. Rhino is always good, all the time. He's a crazy clock for combo to deal with, he's super hard to remove(can't get hit with any red removal{except Combust}, can't be Abrupt Decay'd, can't get hit with a lot of black removal either), and does an INSANE job at stabilizing the opponent. I can't count how many games i've had the opponent at 10 life, looking like i was doing great, then comes the wall that is Siege Rhino, and instantly the game slipped away from me. For just 4 mana, Rhino stabilizes more than anything else i can think of.
And the best thing about it is that the card is not ridiculously expensive compared to it's power and popularity.
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