I've been working on a BUG Delver deck for a while now and out of curiosity I've been scouring databases to see if there's any worthwhile creatures besides the usual suspects: Tarmogoyf, Delver of Secrets, Snapcaster Mage, Vendillion Clique and Scavenging Ooze. While I'm not going to say any of the creatures listed below are as good or better than any of those, it does seem like some of them are decent and could possibly see play if they found the right home. Here's what I found:
Scythe Tiger: This thing is a shroud 3/2 for G which should be totally nuts.. except you have to Stone Rain yourself when it comes into play. Still, it seems like this is exactly the kind of card a Delver deck running green would want. They don't need the land nearly as badly as they need a early, aggressive, Bolt-proof body. This thing fits the bill with the added bonus? (let's be optimistic) of filling your graveyard for Treasure Cruise.
Plaxmanta: Plaxmanta is essentially a Grizzly Bear with flash for UG that just happens to blank a removal spell when you cast it. The body is decidedly unimpressive and it's probably not as good as just running Spell Pierce, but it seems like the right deck could have some fun with this guy. As for Delver, I suspect it's a little too slow as your turn one/two drop will likely die before you can save it with this.
Quickling: Basically the same idea as Plaxmanta, this lets you save a creature and provides an evasive body to boot. It's not bad, but suffers the same problem as ol' Plaxy.
Skinshifter: The problem with this guy is he's likely going to die to Gut Shot/Forked Bolt/Lightning Bolt/3000 other things in response to his activation, but on the off chance you can attack with him a 4/4 Trample on turn three for a total investment of three mana is pretty good. Using G each turn isn't as big a deal in Delver compared to a deck that's trying to play creatures on curve; if you have a threat out you're probably holding up the mana to protect it anyway. Anyway, this one I feel is a little weak but I wanted to mention it.
Trygon Predator: This thing fails the Bolt test spectacularly in that he is expensive, dies to bolt, and does nothing when he comes into play. That said though, on the off chance something like Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek control popped up this guy might see the light of day.
Skylasher: This guy really has me thinking. On the one hand he can be a total blowout against opposing Delver decks, flashing in at instant speed on turn two to block their 3/2 flyer and hanging around for more. On the other hand he's probably just going to die to a burn spell immediately. Still, the lure of a Delver blowout is strong. If something like U/W Delver popular instead of U/R I think this guy would be very strong, but the amount of burn in the deck really takes him down a notch, and he's pretty much just a Grizzly Bears in every other matchup. Overall I'd say he's not playable right now, but has the potential to be.
The last couple may be a bit of a reach but Scythe Tiger at least could have some potential as a tempo monster. Have you guys ever played/considered playing any of these, or know of anything that may be even better?
edit: For fun I just thought up a list that could attempt to abuse the Tiger in a dedicated tempo deck. WARNING: COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL AND PROBABLY REALLY BAD DECKLIST BELOW
Is there any merit to running this over UR Delver? Probably not, but this is an example of the kind of deck Scythe Tiger could see play in. Explore kind of makes up for Stone Raining yourself and cantrips to boot, it's a match made in heaven for a tier three Delver deck!
The bad thing about Scythe Tiger is that it costs 1 mana, but you really don't want to play him on turn 1.
Explore isn't going to be of much help since either the Tiger or Explore will be dead in hand: if you lead with Tiger, you have to wait two more turns to cast Explore, at which point it's irrelevant. If you lead with Explore, then you have a 3/2 with shroud on turn 3. Which is passable, I guess, but not super broken, considering Troll Ascetic has similar stats, a strictly better ability, and comes out on turn 3 without any support.
A Scythe Tiger deck would need to function on just 1-2 mana, and I can see that you kept that in mind when constructing your deck (you even dodged the trap of Snapcaster Mage). Explore is really bad in your deck though, I'd cut it for more 1-mana disruption.
Quickling sounds like a bad idea. You're playing Delvers and Tigers, and you never want to return those to your hand.
You should probably play Treasure Cruise too, since other than Remand, your disruption spells don't cantrip.
The bad thing about Scythe Tiger is that it costs 1 mana, but you really don't want to play him on turn 1.
Explore isn't going to be of much help since either the Tiger or Explore will be dead in hand: if you lead with Tiger, you have to wait two more turns to cast Explore, at which point it's irrelevant. If you lead with Explore, then you have a 3/2 with shroud on turn 3. Which is passable, I guess, but not super broken, considering Troll Ascetic has similar stats, a strictly better ability, and comes out on turn 3 without any support.
A Scythe Tiger deck would need to function on just 1-2 mana, and I can see that you kept that in mind when constructing your deck (you even dodged the trap of Snapcaster Mage). Explore is really bad in your deck though, I'd cut it for more 1-mana disruption.
Quickling sounds like a bad idea. You're playing Delvers and Tigers, and you never want to return those to your hand.
You should probably play Treasure Cruise too, since other than Remand, your disruption spells don't cantrip.
Yeah I actually built the deck with Treasure Cruise in mind then apparently forgot to include it in the deck list. Oops. I agree though, Explore is probably getting too cute. Quickling can be replaced with Plaxmanta for the same effect but substituting evasion for not having to recast the creature which is probably a worthwhile trade. Tiger isn't really a concern however as it has shroud to protect itself (or yourself from bouncing him).
The deck should be built to drop the Tiger on turn one. This means Explore is pretty bad, and one mana spells are pretty good. In practice, that probably means the deck should have a lot of Spell Pierces, Spell Snares, and Vapor Snags to bounce blockers. From there you ride him out to victory.
Here's a list a threw together for the Scythe Tiger. Running 12 3 Power one drops leads to some pretty nice starts. Burn/Counter/Path Backup help cleanup threats. The 4 Helix help a little bit with the 4 colors plus give you some game against other aggro decks. The deck has 5 additional cantrips for Treasure Cruises which I didn't max out because I felt that the deck had a couple too many 2 mana spells.
Scythe Tiger would be fine in a one-drop Zoo list where you will not screw yourself by blowing up your first-turn land. Being unable to pump him with Ghor-Clans/Giant Growths does hurt a bit.
Any creature that has a combat-damage-activated ability doesn't suffer from Bolt so much as requiring you to be on the offensive. Sometimes I wish we could get a six-month holiday from Bolt, just to see if any of the X/3's sitting in binders can pull their weight, but then I remember I run Bolts whenever I run red so I'm part of the problem.
To add to the list, I'm convinced Blood Scrivener could be very useful in a deck that consistently drops its opening hand quickly. At least as useful as Confidant, which sees a lot of play even though it dies to everything.
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GW Hatebears more like HateBROS BWR THE ARISTAHCRATZ!
I'm eternally saddened to this day that this glorious beast is mostly unplayable in modern. I love him so much. Value incarnate.
this card deserved to burn in hell for the misery it caused me during delver standard.. i quit standard completely after that and laughed at the standard it created with resto angel + swagtusk.
scythe tiger could be run in some GW hate deck with flagstones. it could happen.
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I've always wanted Boros Reckoner and Falkenrath Aristocrat to work in modern. I think Reckoner is actually a pretty good creature that just doesn't have a home, but Falkenrath is just plain unplayable. Remember that standard season where we would play those together with Lingering Souls, play Blasphemous Act after attack in the air, sacrifice a token to Falkenrath in response to act, redirect 13 from Boros Reckoner to the opponent while Falkenrath sat through the board wipe? That's the most fun I've ever had in standard.
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
I've always wanted Boros Reckoner and Falkenrath Aristocrat to work in modern. I think Reckoner is actually a pretty good creature that just doesn't have a home, but Falkenrath is just plain unplayable. Remember that standard season where we would play those together with Lingering Souls, play Blasphemous Act after attack in the air, sacrifice a token to Falkenrath in response to act, redirect 13 from Boros Reckoner to the opponent while Falkenrath sat through the board wipe? That's the most fun I've ever had in standard.
Reckoner fails the Abrupt Decay test (although it's not a blowout, just a 1 mana tempo swing). It's probably usable if you are in exactly WR colours.
Falkenrath is actually playable and good if you are in BR aggro, it's just not good enough to push you into BR aggro. The old Standard decks built around him don't gain enough from the Modern cardpool to survive in the Modern format. (They gain Bob, Bolt, Thoughtseize, better mana from the BR fastland and fetches, maybe Ulcerate, and not really much else). Mostly, I don't think they have any legitimately great 2 drops, or ways to get tempo blowouts beyond those provided by Bolt.
I've always wanted Boros Reckoner and Falkenrath Aristocrat to work in modern. I think Reckoner is actually a pretty good creature that just doesn't have a home, but Falkenrath is just plain unplayable. Remember that standard season where we would play those together with Lingering Souls, play Blasphemous Act after attack in the air, sacrifice a token to Falkenrath in response to act, redirect 13 from Boros Reckoner to the opponent while Falkenrath sat through the board wipe? That's the most fun I've ever had in standard.
Reckoner fails the Abrupt Decay test (although it's not a blowout, just a 1 mana tempo swing). It's probably usable if you are in exactly WR colours.
Falkenrath is actually playable and good if you are in BR aggro, it's just not good enough to push you into BR aggro. The old Standard decks built around him don't gain enough from the Modern cardpool to survive in the Modern format. (They gain Bob, Bolt, Thoughtseize, better mana from the BR fastland and fetches, maybe Ulcerate, and not really much else). Mostly, I don't think they have any legitimately great 2 drops, or ways to get tempo blowouts beyond those provided by Bolt.
You can run Reckoner in any RWX deck as long as you have next to none lands that don't produce either R or W. He blocks out utility lands almost completely in both WR and WRX. WRX would play maybe one X-colored basic to fetch in a pinch and that's it. It's a very tall order in a format where you want to answer Tron and manlands.
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well augur of bolas is playable as he is a role player that did at least half of his work when entering the battlefield. i wish the dimir cutpurse were 2 mana though. that would make him playable even in a bolt meta.
I totally think Augur of Bolas is playable. If it dies to a bolt I gladly take the 2-for-1.
With UR delver now focusing on enabling treasure cruise and monastery swiftspear through cantripping I really want to make a RUG delver deck that runs quirion dryad. I'm planning to run it in an otherwise stock UR delver list in snapcaster's slot. Granted, tarmogoyf is more consistent and better mid-late game and therefore better, but quirion dryad is $2 for a playset and non-terrible.
I actually really like quirion dryad. If you take it as a given that Goyf is generally a 3/4 for 2, then quirion only needs you to cast 3 spells to make it there on its own. It plays the "protect the queen" role much better as the more you protect it the stronger it gets, and it has the added bonus of being invulnerable to the graveyard hate that is inevitably going to rise in prevalence with the quantity of treasure cruises people are playing. It also has the distinct advantage of not relying on your graveyard, meaning it could enable a rug-delver style shell with treasure cruise that makes any incidental gravehate nearly useless.
It hurts a bit more than UR in terms of mana base, but I think in general that a single larger threat is probably a better investment for a two-drop threat than a young pyromancer that can't profitably attack in on the third turn as frequently as would be preferred. More importantly, it opens up a host of new sideboard options: Ancient Grudge, Destructive Revelry, Choke (obviously would require some mana retooling, but it's reasonable to consider), corrosive gale, maybe raging ravine in the mainboard, etc etc. There's options.
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Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Notion Thief may not be amazing in modern, but he's one of the most fun creatures to come out in years.
Pair him with Mikokoro, Center of the sea and it's amazing. I use it in Legacy Nic Fit and I have quite a few friends who do it in vintage. I wish it was viable in modern because its some of the most fun I've had in magic.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Notion Thief may not be amazing in modern, but he's one of the most fun creatures to come out in years.
Pair him with Mikokoro, Center of the sea and it's amazing. I use it in Legacy Nic Fit and I have quite a few friends who do it in vintage. I wish it was viable in modern because its some of the most fun I've had in magic.
I actually really like quirion dryad. If you take it as a given that Goyf is generally a 3/4 for 2, then quirion only needs you to cast 3 spells to make it there on its own. It plays the "protect the queen" role much better as the more you protect it the stronger it gets, and it has the added bonus of being invulnerable to the graveyard hate that is inevitably going to rise in prevalence with the quantity of treasure cruises people are playing. It also has the distinct advantage of not relying on your graveyard, meaning it could enable a rug-delver style shell with treasure cruise that makes any incidental gravehate nearly useless.
It hurts a bit more than UR in terms of mana base, but I think in general that a single larger threat is probably a better investment for a two-drop threat than a young pyromancer that can't profitably attack in on the third turn as frequently as would be preferred. More importantly, it opens up a host of new sideboard options: Ancient Grudge, Destructive Revelry, Choke (obviously would require some mana retooling, but it's reasonable to consider), corrosive gale, maybe raging ravine in the mainboard, etc etc. There's options.
You bring up a good point that dryad is a lot better if you can protect her. My intention was to run her alongside pyromancer rather than instead of pyromancer. With that in mind, I might want to drop swiftspear in favor of goblin guide so I can run more counters & other instant speed burn/draw/disruption. Dryad, pyromancer, and treasure cruise don't care if you're casting spells on the opponent's turn. Both izzet charm and simic charm are pretty good toolboxes. I don't see a reason to run stomping grounds... I think you'd rather have a 2nd basic island, and run a 3rd blue fetch over wooded foothills. Anyway, I truly think dryad is viable in a competitive list, and arguably better than goyf since it's actually synergistic with treasure cruise rather than dysynergistic.
Am I missing something with Skinshifter? Drop him turn 2+ or when you have ramp, you can tap G to make him a 0/8 in response to Lightning Bolt, can't you? He doesn't have to tap to activate, so he can do this the turn he comes out?
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Am I missing something with Skinshifter? Drop him turn 2+ or when you have ramp, you can tap G to make him a 0/8 in response to Lightning Bolt, can't you? He doesn't have to tap to activate, so he can do this the turn he comes out?
The issue with Skinshifter isn't being able to turn into a 0/8 to survive bolt. The issue is that your opponent will hold onto the bolt until you activate the ability for combat. You'll have a 1/1 waiting to be a 4/4 and you can't activate the ability again in response to the bolt.
Skinshifter suffers from having that awful "activate this ability only once each turn" text on him.
That text can make any card worse.
Example: Figure of Destiny. Decent card, really deserves more love, scales across the game at a pretty acceptable rate. Would be utter crap if it had that once each turn limiter on it. But it doesn't, so its only problem is how to evade Bolt when trying to transition from 2/2 to 4/4.
Well, let's assume we want to play "protect the queen" in modern. Then, to start with, generally we're looking at having 17-19 lands. Our threat base is certainly 4 delver, 4 quirion dryad, 1 clique, and 4-5 other threats. If we want to go slightly bigger, I can reasonably see that being 4 young pyromancers and a single snapcaster mage or a sword of fire and ice. Regardless, the 8 2-drop threats means we definitely want the 19th land. So, with that in mind, we're looking at 19 lands, 13 threats +1 flex slot, and 27 free slots. serum visions, gitaxian probe, sleight of hand, treasure cruise, lightning bolt eat up 20 of those slots. Reasonably, since we're playing protect the queen, we want pretty much all of our remaining slots to be countermagic, my gut says 2 leaks 2 remands 2 spell snare 1 spell pierce/dispel (pierce has more utility, dispel hard answers most removal). Possibly we dump the 4th treasure cruise and the flex slot for additional countermagic, but that would be testing-based decisions to make.
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Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Well, let's assume we want to play "protect the queen" in modern. Then, to start with, generally we're looking at having 17-19 lands. Our threat base is certainly 4 delver, 4 quirion dryad, 1 clique, and 4-5 other threats. If we want to go slightly bigger, I can reasonably see that being 4 young pyromancers and a single snapcaster mage or a sword of fire and ice. Regardless, the 8 2-drop threats means we definitely want the 19th land. So, with that in mind, we're looking at 19 lands, 13 threats +1 flex slot, and 27 free slots. serum visions, gitaxian probe, sleight of hand, treasure cruise, lightning bolt eat up 20 of those slots. Reasonably, since we're playing protect the queen, we want pretty much all of our remaining slots to be countermagic, my gut says 2 leaks 2 remands 2 spell snare 1 spell pierce/dispel (pierce has more utility, dispel hard answers most removal). Possibly we dump the 4th treasure cruise and the flex slot for additional countermagic, but that would be testing-based decisions to make.
My preliminary list isn't wildly far off from yours. This is a rough draft:
I feel like visions + probe + sleight of hand + cruise is overkill, and most lists I've seen aren't running the 4th cruise. With swiftspear out, dryad delver doesn't necessarily need to go out of it's way to draw a billion cards every turn because it's triggers are permanent. It would also be hard to cast so many sorcery-speed cantrips and still have mana left to leave up for counters & EOT bolts. 1 clique should probably be there, but I don't have them and I'm not planning to acquire any... it's the only reason I've left it out. I stuck to the 1CC counters because I feel like remand and leak are slow in this deck, but it's really just personal preference. I could see my 2x charms come out for 2x leak. I really like your idea of running a singleton dispel. Searing blaze might be better as forked bolt or something else at 1CC, but I want to try it. I think 18 lands is enough (legacy lists get by with 18 including 4x wasteland and are themselves facing wasteland) but I could be wrong there... legacy lists also have brainstorm and ponder instead of serum visions and gitaxian probe.
I guess I'm really trying to make a list that plays like legacy RUG delver (minus the mana disruption and free counterspells, obviously), and that might be a mistake. The good news is, it would be very cheap and easy for me to swap goblin guides for swiftspears and counters for more burn & cantrips.
Well, let's assume we want to play "protect the queen" in modern. Then, to start with, generally we're looking at having 17-19 lands. Our threat base is certainly 4 delver, 4 quirion dryad, 1 clique, and 4-5 other threats. If we want to go slightly bigger, I can reasonably see that being 4 young pyromancers and a single snapcaster mage or a sword of fire and ice. Regardless, the 8 2-drop threats means we definitely want the 19th land. So, with that in mind, we're looking at 19 lands, 13 threats +1 flex slot, and 27 free slots. serum visions, gitaxian probe, sleight of hand, treasure cruise, lightning bolt eat up 20 of those slots. Reasonably, since we're playing protect the queen, we want pretty much all of our remaining slots to be countermagic, my gut says 2 leaks 2 remands 2 spell snare 1 spell pierce/dispel (pierce has more utility, dispel hard answers most removal). Possibly we dump the 4th treasure cruise and the flex slot for additional countermagic, but that would be testing-based decisions to make.
My preliminary list isn't wildly far off from yours. This is a rough draft:
I feel like visions + probe + sleight of hand + cruise is overkill, and most lists I've seen aren't running the 4th cruise. With swiftspear out, dryad delver doesn't necessarily need to go out of it's way to draw a billion cards every turn because it's triggers are permanent. It would also be hard to cast so many sorcery-speed cantrips and still have mana left to leave up for counters & EOT bolts. 1 clique should probably be there, but I don't have them and I'm not planning to acquire any... it's the only reason I've left it out. I stuck to the 1CC counters because I feel like remand and leak are slow in this deck, but it's really just personal preference. I could see my 2x charms come out for 2x leak. I really like your idea of running a singleton dispel. Searing blaze might be better as forked bolt or something else at 1CC, but I want to try it. I think 18 lands is enough (legacy lists get by with 18 including 4x wasteland and are themselves facing wasteland) but I could be wrong there... legacy lists also have brainstorm and ponder instead of serum visions and gitaxian probe.
I guess I'm really trying to make a list that plays like legacy RUG delver (minus the mana disruption and free counterspells, obviously), and that might be a mistake. The good news is, it would be very cheap and easy for me to swap goblin guides for swiftspears and counters for more burn & cantrips.
I agree with some of the changes--for certain countermagic versus all the additional cantrips (sleight, 4th cruise) is definitely something that would warrant testing, but I do feel very strongly that your threat base is both too large and too unwieldy. The stock delver list is 12 threats--delver, goyf, mongoose. Bug delver tends to push it up to 14, but usually no more. UWR is usually 13-14 threats. I feel like the 16 you're running is far too many--you'll definitely draw hands with just threats and no way to protect them or push through damage. Goblin Guide is pretty terrible in this style of deck, because even though he applies a ton of pressure early, he isn't evasive and doesn't have the ability to fight through something like a goyf or even a wild nacatl in the early game, whereas pyromancer can at least go wide. I would cut the guides for a 13th (and maybe 14th) threat, in my case I'd go for a clique and a sword of fire and ice, though one of the two is probably fine. The other guide slots can and should be additional countermagic, as only 6 pieces of countermagic (some of it seriously conditional) is definitely not enough to support the protect the queen strategy--you certainly want at least 9-10 pieces of countermagic, Even if they only buy time and don't actually deal with threats (remand). I like the izzet charm, but simic charm seems a bit deep--sure, all the modes are reasonable, but generally a more powerful spell fulfilling one of those modes will be more generally applicable. What is encouraging is the rapidity with which lists converge--what remains to be seen is if it has anywhere near the power level to compete with burn and UR delver straight up.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Notion Thief may not be amazing in modern, but he's one of the most fun creatures to come out in years.
Pair him with Mikokoro, Center of the sea and it's amazing. I use it in Legacy Nic Fit and I have quite a few friends who do it in vintage. I wish it was viable in modern because its some of the most fun I've had in magic.
Lately I've been thinking about splashing a single black mana just to play this in my sideboard in Kiki pod. Can you imagine chording this out in response to a treasure cruise?:D
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Scythe Tiger: This thing is a shroud 3/2 for G which should be totally nuts.. except you have to Stone Rain yourself when it comes into play. Still, it seems like this is exactly the kind of card a Delver deck running green would want. They don't need the land nearly as badly as they need a early, aggressive, Bolt-proof body. This thing fits the bill with the added bonus? (let's be optimistic) of filling your graveyard for Treasure Cruise.
Plaxmanta: Plaxmanta is essentially a Grizzly Bear with flash for UG that just happens to blank a removal spell when you cast it. The body is decidedly unimpressive and it's probably not as good as just running Spell Pierce, but it seems like the right deck could have some fun with this guy. As for Delver, I suspect it's a little too slow as your turn one/two drop will likely die before you can save it with this.
Quickling: Basically the same idea as Plaxmanta, this lets you save a creature and provides an evasive body to boot. It's not bad, but suffers the same problem as ol' Plaxy.
Skinshifter: The problem with this guy is he's likely going to die to Gut Shot/Forked Bolt/Lightning Bolt/3000 other things in response to his activation, but on the off chance you can attack with him a 4/4 Trample on turn three for a total investment of three mana is pretty good. Using G each turn isn't as big a deal in Delver compared to a deck that's trying to play creatures on curve; if you have a threat out you're probably holding up the mana to protect it anyway. Anyway, this one I feel is a little weak but I wanted to mention it.
Trygon Predator: This thing fails the Bolt test spectacularly in that he is expensive, dies to bolt, and does nothing when he comes into play. That said though, on the off chance something like Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek control popped up this guy might see the light of day.
Skylasher: This guy really has me thinking. On the one hand he can be a total blowout against opposing Delver decks, flashing in at instant speed on turn two to block their 3/2 flyer and hanging around for more. On the other hand he's probably just going to die to a burn spell immediately. Still, the lure of a Delver blowout is strong. If something like U/W Delver popular instead of U/R I think this guy would be very strong, but the amount of burn in the deck really takes him down a notch, and he's pretty much just a Grizzly Bears in every other matchup. Overall I'd say he's not playable right now, but has the potential to be.
The last couple may be a bit of a reach but Scythe Tiger at least could have some potential as a tempo monster. Have you guys ever played/considered playing any of these, or know of anything that may be even better?
edit: For fun I just thought up a list that could attempt to abuse the Tiger in a dedicated tempo deck. WARNING: COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL AND PROBABLY REALLY BAD DECKLIST BELOW
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Quickling
4 Scythe Tiger
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendillion Clique
Spells (25)
4x Explore
4x Remand
4x Serum Visions
2x Simic Charm
2x Spell Pierce
2x Spell Snare
3x Vapor Snag
4x Breeding Pool
3x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
3x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Polluted Delta
Is there any merit to running this over UR Delver? Probably not, but this is an example of the kind of deck Scythe Tiger could see play in. Explore kind of makes up for Stone Raining yourself and cantrips to boot, it's a match made in heaven for a tier three Delver deck!
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Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Explore isn't going to be of much help since either the Tiger or Explore will be dead in hand: if you lead with Tiger, you have to wait two more turns to cast Explore, at which point it's irrelevant. If you lead with Explore, then you have a 3/2 with shroud on turn 3. Which is passable, I guess, but not super broken, considering Troll Ascetic has similar stats, a strictly better ability, and comes out on turn 3 without any support.
A Scythe Tiger deck would need to function on just 1-2 mana, and I can see that you kept that in mind when constructing your deck (you even dodged the trap of Snapcaster Mage). Explore is really bad in your deck though, I'd cut it for more 1-mana disruption.
Quickling sounds like a bad idea. You're playing Delvers and Tigers, and you never want to return those to your hand.
You should probably play Treasure Cruise too, since other than Remand, your disruption spells don't cantrip.
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Yeah I actually built the deck with Treasure Cruise in mind then apparently forgot to include it in the deck list. Oops. I agree though, Explore is probably getting too cute. Quickling can be replaced with Plaxmanta for the same effect but substituting evasion for not having to recast the creature which is probably a worthwhile trade. Tiger isn't really a concern however as it has shroud to protect itself (or yourself from bouncing him).
The deck should be built to drop the Tiger on turn one. This means Explore is pretty bad, and one mana spells are pretty good. In practice, that probably means the deck should have a lot of Spell Pierces, Spell Snares, and Vapor Snags to bounce blockers. From there you ride him out to victory.
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4 Wild Nacatl
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Scythe Tiger
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Boros Charm
3 Path to Exile
3 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Leak
1 Spell Snare
3 Treasure Cruise
2 Serum Visions
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
1 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Breeding Pool
Scythe Tiger would be fine in a one-drop Zoo list where you will not screw yourself by blowing up your first-turn land. Being unable to pump him with Ghor-Clans/Giant Growths does hurt a bit.
Any creature that has a combat-damage-activated ability doesn't suffer from Bolt so much as requiring you to be on the offensive. Sometimes I wish we could get a six-month holiday from Bolt, just to see if any of the X/3's sitting in binders can pull their weight, but then I remember I run Bolts whenever I run red so I'm part of the problem.
To add to the list, I'm convinced Blood Scrivener could be very useful in a deck that consistently drops its opening hand quickly. At least as useful as Confidant, which sees a lot of play even though it dies to everything.
BWR THE ARISTAHCRATZ!
this card deserved to burn in hell for the misery it caused me during delver standard.. i quit standard completely after that and laughed at the standard it created with resto angel + swagtusk.
scythe tiger could be run in some GW hate deck with flagstones. it could happen.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Reckoner fails the Abrupt Decay test (although it's not a blowout, just a 1 mana tempo swing). It's probably usable if you are in exactly WR colours.
Falkenrath is actually playable and good if you are in BR aggro, it's just not good enough to push you into BR aggro. The old Standard decks built around him don't gain enough from the Modern cardpool to survive in the Modern format. (They gain Bob, Bolt, Thoughtseize, better mana from the BR fastland and fetches, maybe Ulcerate, and not really much else). Mostly, I don't think they have any legitimately great 2 drops, or ways to get tempo blowouts beyond those provided by Bolt.
Also Thragtusk has a secure home in 4c gifts, and oddly enough is great in legacy via Nic-fit.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
I totally think Augur of Bolas is playable. If it dies to a bolt I gladly take the 2-for-1.
WURUWr Stoneblade
Modern
WRGNaya Zoo Company
Something along the lines of:
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Breeding Pool
2 Steam Vents
1 stomping grounds
1 island
1 mountain
4 Quirion Dryad
4 Monastary Swiftspear
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Treasure Cruise
It hurts a bit more than UR in terms of mana base, but I think in general that a single larger threat is probably a better investment for a two-drop threat than a young pyromancer that can't profitably attack in on the third turn as frequently as would be preferred. More importantly, it opens up a host of new sideboard options: Ancient Grudge, Destructive Revelry, Choke (obviously would require some mana retooling, but it's reasonable to consider), corrosive gale, maybe raging ravine in the mainboard, etc etc. There's options.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Pair him with Mikokoro, Center of the sea and it's amazing. I use it in Legacy Nic Fit and I have quite a few friends who do it in vintage. I wish it was viable in modern because its some of the most fun I've had in magic.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
That actually sounds awesome in Commander.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
You bring up a good point that dryad is a lot better if you can protect her. My intention was to run her alongside pyromancer rather than instead of pyromancer. With that in mind, I might want to drop swiftspear in favor of goblin guide so I can run more counters & other instant speed burn/draw/disruption. Dryad, pyromancer, and treasure cruise don't care if you're casting spells on the opponent's turn. Both izzet charm and simic charm are pretty good toolboxes. I don't see a reason to run stomping grounds... I think you'd rather have a 2nd basic island, and run a 3rd blue fetch over wooded foothills. Anyway, I truly think dryad is viable in a competitive list, and arguably better than goyf since it's actually synergistic with treasure cruise rather than dysynergistic.
That text can make any card worse.
Example: Figure of Destiny. Decent card, really deserves more love, scales across the game at a pretty acceptable rate. Would be utter crap if it had that once each turn limiter on it. But it doesn't, so its only problem is how to evade Bolt when trying to transition from 2/2 to 4/4.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
My preliminary list isn't wildly far off from yours. This is a rough draft:
4 goblin guide
4 young pyromancer
4 quirion dryad
4 lightning bolt
2 searing blaze
4 gitaxian probe
4 serum visions
3 treasure cruise
1 izzet charm
1 simic charm
2 spell pierce
1 dispel
2 spell snare
4 misty rainforest
4 scalding tarn
3 polluted delta
2 breeding pool
2 steam vents
2 island
1 mountain
I feel like visions + probe + sleight of hand + cruise is overkill, and most lists I've seen aren't running the 4th cruise. With swiftspear out, dryad delver doesn't necessarily need to go out of it's way to draw a billion cards every turn because it's triggers are permanent. It would also be hard to cast so many sorcery-speed cantrips and still have mana left to leave up for counters & EOT bolts. 1 clique should probably be there, but I don't have them and I'm not planning to acquire any... it's the only reason I've left it out. I stuck to the 1CC counters because I feel like remand and leak are slow in this deck, but it's really just personal preference. I could see my 2x charms come out for 2x leak. I really like your idea of running a singleton dispel. Searing blaze might be better as forked bolt or something else at 1CC, but I want to try it. I think 18 lands is enough (legacy lists get by with 18 including 4x wasteland and are themselves facing wasteland) but I could be wrong there... legacy lists also have brainstorm and ponder instead of serum visions and gitaxian probe.
I guess I'm really trying to make a list that plays like legacy RUG delver (minus the mana disruption and free counterspells, obviously), and that might be a mistake. The good news is, it would be very cheap and easy for me to swap goblin guides for swiftspears and counters for more burn & cantrips.
I agree with some of the changes--for certain countermagic versus all the additional cantrips (sleight, 4th cruise) is definitely something that would warrant testing, but I do feel very strongly that your threat base is both too large and too unwieldy. The stock delver list is 12 threats--delver, goyf, mongoose. Bug delver tends to push it up to 14, but usually no more. UWR is usually 13-14 threats. I feel like the 16 you're running is far too many--you'll definitely draw hands with just threats and no way to protect them or push through damage. Goblin Guide is pretty terrible in this style of deck, because even though he applies a ton of pressure early, he isn't evasive and doesn't have the ability to fight through something like a goyf or even a wild nacatl in the early game, whereas pyromancer can at least go wide. I would cut the guides for a 13th (and maybe 14th) threat, in my case I'd go for a clique and a sword of fire and ice, though one of the two is probably fine. The other guide slots can and should be additional countermagic, as only 6 pieces of countermagic (some of it seriously conditional) is definitely not enough to support the protect the queen strategy--you certainly want at least 9-10 pieces of countermagic, Even if they only buy time and don't actually deal with threats (remand). I like the izzet charm, but simic charm seems a bit deep--sure, all the modes are reasonable, but generally a more powerful spell fulfilling one of those modes will be more generally applicable. What is encouraging is the rapidity with which lists converge--what remains to be seen is if it has anywhere near the power level to compete with burn and UR delver straight up.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Stormscape Familiar Evasive and makes spells cheaper, seems like it should be good in the right deck.
Lately I've been thinking about splashing a single black mana just to play this in my sideboard in Kiki pod. Can you imagine chording this out in response to a treasure cruise?:D