There's also the option of turn one Fetch, Thought Scour yourself. That puts four cards in the yard to set up turn two, and if you fetch again you can cast him for just G.
There's also the option of turn one Fetch, Thought Scour yourself. That puts four cards in the yard to set up turn two, and if you fetch again you can cast him for just G.
Exactly what I was thinking. Trample is big. Can't be bolted/Abrupt Decay'd is big. Weakening opposing Goyfs or Scavenging Oozes is great.
If Goyf ever gets banned ... then maybe we can start looking for Goyf's replacement. But the ease of casting cost, the fact that his butt is bigger than his head means he can chump block opponent's Goyfs, and he's good at every stage of the game.
There's also the option of turn one Fetch, Thought Scour yourself. That puts four cards in the yard to set up turn two, and if you fetch again you can cast him for just G.
You could also use darkblast, with 2 fetch lands your playing Hootie for G
I think the real question we have to ask is
Is this card consistantly fast enough for modern?
For example if your deck is faster than everything else in the meta 1/3 of the time but far slower 2/3 of the time. You will only really win 1/3 games. If that happens you will not make it far. (Simplified example but hey)
Cards normally go to the yard as a result of playing the game. I can see this being a 1 or 2 of just because a 4/4 trampler for G is good. It can clog hands unless you try to jump through hoops, but as the game goes on the better and better it gets.
If dredge becomes a thing it will most likely see a lot of play. This the new removal, goyf all can possibly see play because of treasure cruse. This also makes loth troll a good card for that deck.
I've tested it in a temur delver deck. No goyf but just mandrills. Due to the fetches and cheap spells this comes down as a 4/4 for 1 very often. It hurts cruise a bit but it isnt a reason to not run it.
Hooting mandrils as it stands is becoming a mainstay card in dredgevine lists, faithless looting makes the card as well as the deck in general extremely powerful, grisly salvage of course does serious work as well. As for BUG vine lists, I think its safe to say those are kinda iffy, they rely a little TOO much on their graveyard if you ask me, the jund variants are simply stronger and have better tools, some people run extra utility with the red such as lavamancers or tymaret's, I myself like running ghor clan rampagers as it helps vine to break through.
Hooting mandrels is not goyf. It will never be goyf. We could go on all day about how it can be better as time goes on, matchups, ect ect, but the simple fact is goyf is 3/4 gernerally on turn 2. Mandrils will never do that. With work, hes turn a turn 3 play.
When you put it like that hes more like serra avenger. Lower price, but a timing restriction. The goyf comparison is completely wrong because of that fundamental difference, but comparing it to a 3 drop (as it can be played on turn 3) or a tuming restricted card is the best way to evaluate it.
Things like loxodon smiter, courser, and fanatic of xenagos is really more of what should be brought up.
I've seen mandrils used mostly in zoo. Zoo doesn't use the graveyard for anything outside of reliquary. But they do put plent of fetch and bolts into the yard to be able to cast mandrils on the field turn 3 reliably, turn 2 occasionally. That's some solid fat for a deck that already rushes out at you.
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Hooting mandrels is not goyf. It will never be goyf. We could go on all day about how it can be better as time goes on, matchups, ect ect, but the simple fact is goyf is 3/4 gernerally on turn 2. Mandrils will never do that. With work, hes turn a turn 3 play.
Turn one fetchland, Thought Scour or Faithless Looting puts four cards into your graveyard. That sets up an easy turn two Mandrils, and with a second fetchland you can even play him for just G and keep a mana up. I'm not trying to suggest that he's as good as Goyf, but he can be a legitimate budget substitution.
Again, mandrils as it stands is a dredgevine creature, hes already seeing plenty of play in lots of lists, theres no point comparing him to smiter or courser because he only truly fits into the dredge style decks that also want to be aggressive.
Hooting mandrels is not goyf. It will never be goyf. We could go on all day about how it can be better as time goes on, matchups, ect ect, but the simple fact is goyf is 3/4 gernerally on turn 2. Mandrils will never do that. With work, hes turn a turn 3 play.
When you put it like that hes more like serra avenger. Lower price, but a timing restriction. The goyf comparison is completely wrong because of that fundamental difference, but comparing it to a 3 drop (as it can be played on turn 3) or a tuming restricted card is the best way to evaluate it.
Things like loxodon smiter, courser, and fanatic of xenagos is really more of what should be brought up.
I've been casually brainstorming ideas for a modern delve-powered deck. Thought Scour is excellent but I think the deck needs a second 1-mana cantrip that dumps a card(s) into the grave. Something like Sleight of Hand that drops the second card into the grave would get there. I believe people really underestimate Mandrills. Trample, immune to Abrupt Decay, immune to Spell Snare, immune to a single bolt, and able to favorably trade with most playable creatures in the format along with the ability to come down T2 is serious biz. He just needs consistent enablers.
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Exactly what I was thinking. Trample is big. Can't be bolted/Abrupt Decay'd is big. Weakening opposing Goyfs or Scavenging Oozes is great.
If Goyf ever gets banned ... then maybe we can start looking for Goyf's replacement. But the ease of casting cost, the fact that his butt is bigger than his head means he can chump block opponent's Goyfs, and he's good at every stage of the game.
Or, y'know, if we want to play Magic without spending $720 on a playset of Goofy...
You could also use darkblast, with 2 fetch lands your playing Hootie for G
Is this card consistantly fast enough for modern?
For example if your deck is faster than everything else in the meta 1/3 of the time but far slower 2/3 of the time. You will only really win 1/3 games. If that happens you will not make it far. (Simplified example but hey)
If dredge becomes a thing it will most likely see a lot of play. This the new removal, goyf all can possibly see play because of treasure cruse. This also makes loth troll a good card for that deck.
When you put it like that hes more like serra avenger. Lower price, but a timing restriction. The goyf comparison is completely wrong because of that fundamental difference, but comparing it to a 3 drop (as it can be played on turn 3) or a tuming restricted card is the best way to evaluate it.
Things like loxodon smiter, courser, and fanatic of xenagos is really more of what should be brought up.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Turn one fetchland, Thought Scour or Faithless Looting puts four cards into your graveyard. That sets up an easy turn two Mandrils, and with a second fetchland you can even play him for just G and keep a mana up. I'm not trying to suggest that he's as good as Goyf, but he can be a legitimate budget substitution.
As far as playing him outside a deck thats either dredging, using salvage/warfinder and such hes just not good enough for that.
You got it mistaken.
Mandrills is Tombstalker.
Hooting Mandrils is the NUTZ. a 1 mana 4/4 with Trample most of the time, plus with thought scour easily comes T2.
A) Play goyf instead
B) Have blue mana and play cruise instead
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