Well, again, we can ask "how big does this have to be for you to want to play it?"
A 5/5 for 4 is dime-a-dozen (Deadbridge Goliath, Polukranos), while 5/5s for 3 have big drawbacks (like restrictive mana costs - Doran, Woolly Thoctar, Leatherback Baloth, and the last two aren't even 5/5). So if you get to cast this for 3 mana, you'd be getting quite a good deal. That means you need 3 creatures in your graveyard. That's easier to achieve than Boneyard Wurm (both in terms of number of turns and creatures in graveyard needed).
In theory, it sounds like it wouldn't be too hard to build a deck that can get him out as a 3-mana 5/5 regularly. I guess it just doesn't work because it's neither A) a way to dump cards in your graveyard nor B) something that can be activated from the graveyard. Lands aside, Dredge(vine) is practically entirely composed of those two kinds of cards, and anything that isn't A or B eats into your consistency.
One option that hasn't been explored is to play a self-mill deck. I don't mean Dredge; Dredge needs both Dredgers and discard outlets to get going, while when I say self-mill, I mean just stuff like Tome Scour. The idea is to play Nemesis of Mortals and Ghoultree as your wincons, and every other card in your deck is devoted to milling yourself in order to reduce those two cards to 3 mana by turn 3. Think of it as something like Soul Sisters, but instead of gaining life, you're milling yourself.
Of course I can already point out the reasons why it won't work (dies to GY hate, removal and combo), but if you want to try it out, go ahead.
The big problem beyond removal (GY hate & combo can be worked around, see Living End) is evasion. Neither of these beat sticks can actually hit the player behind a wall of Goys or Souls. Where's mah trample? :/
I feel like a non-Vine Dredge deck is pretty close to being possible, but it's just missing a certain something.
Well, again, we can ask "how big does this have to be for you to want to play it?"
A 5/5 for 4 is dime-a-dozen (Deadbridge Goliath, Polukranos), while 5/5s for 3 have big drawbacks (like restrictive mana costs - Doran, Woolly Thoctar, Leatherback Baloth, and the last two aren't even 5/5). So if you get to cast this for 3 mana, you'd be getting quite a good deal. That means you need 3 creatures in your graveyard. That's easier to achieve than Boneyard Wurm (both in terms of number of turns and creatures in graveyard needed).
In theory, it sounds like it wouldn't be too hard to build a deck that can get him out as a 3-mana 5/5 regularly. I guess it just doesn't work because it's neither A) a way to dump cards in your graveyard nor B) something that can be activated from the graveyard. Lands aside, Dredge(vine) is practically entirely composed of those two kinds of cards, and anything that isn't A or B eats into your consistency.
One option that hasn't been explored is to play a self-mill deck. I don't mean Dredge; Dredge needs both Dredgers and discard outlets to get going, while when I say self-mill, I mean just stuff like Tome Scour. The idea is to play Nemesis of Mortals and Ghoultree as your wincons, and every other card in your deck is devoted to milling yourself in order to reduce those two cards to 3 mana by turn 3. Think of it as something like Soul Sisters, but instead of gaining life, you're milling yourself.
Of course I can already point out the reasons why it won't work (dies to GY hate, removal and combo), but if you want to try it out, go ahead.
The big problem beyond removal (GY hate & combo can be worked around, see Living End) is evasion. Neither of these beat sticks can actually hit the player behind a wall of Goys or Souls. Where's mah trample? :/
I feel like a non-Vine Dredge deck is pretty close to being possible, but it's just missing a certain something.
Would this theoretical self-mill deck take off with Brawn and/or Wonder in the format? That might actually be an incentive to drop your library in the graveyard.
Is there any good way to pull this guy outta the yard? like a snapcaster for the yard? That might be good. Dump everything, than cast him from the yard yawmoth style for his reduced price.
It doesn't get much more efficient than Smelt when it comes to blowing up artifacts, but in almost all cases, you are going to be better off with Wear//Tear, Ancient Grudge, or Vandalblast.
I think it all depends, honestly; I would rather use Vandalblast or Shattering Spree against Affinity, but Smelt is a ton better against any sort of Sword deck; they attack with a pumped up creature, you smelt the sword and leave the attacking creature dead.
Meta defendant pick, if you ask me.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Interesting to note that there are no cards in MTG that are strictly better than Smelt - it's the only red 1-drop instant artifact destruction spell. That's not to say I wouldn't play something else over it in almost every situation (Ancient Grudge, Shattering Spree, Ingot Chewer, Wear // Tear, and Vandalblast all come to mind), but there's really nothing that's a universally better choice, so it probably has a niche.
i play it in my goblin deck side only because i don't own any Vandalblast. however it is an istant so it may be good in some corner cases against affinity
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Modern: Red Brigades (Goblin) - Cruel Control
EDH: Varolz, the Scar-Striped
I actually really like the card. I remember when it was played in standard with Nettle Sentinel and that card is a finisher in draft. Its actually not as bad that first glance would make you believe.
Elves generates a lot of mana when it gets going and it's nice to have a mana sink. Bonus points if it costs 1 mana and can tap for Heritage Druid.
However, my ranking for 1CMC mana sinks is Sunblade Elf > Twinblade Slasher > Seedcradle Witch. Sunblade Elf is the best because it's a 2/2 - you could just attack to victory with a bunch of SBEs and Sentinels. Slasher has wither and a lower activation cost. Witch is unquestionably weaker in combat than the other two, and the ability can be fizzled by killing the target (also true for Slasher, but if you tried to pump Slasher you'd only be out 2 mana as opposed to 4. In 2 colors to boot).
Elves generates a lot of mana when it gets going and it's nice to have a mana sink. Bonus points if it costs 1 mana and can tap for Heritage Druid.
However, my ranking for 1CMC mana sinks is Sunblade Elf > Twinblade Slasher > Seedcradle Witch. Sunblade Elf is the best because it's a 2/2 - you could just attack to victory with a bunch of SBEs and Sentinels. Slasher has wither and a lower activation cost. Witch is unquestionably weaker in combat than the other two, and the ability can be fizzled by killing the target (also true for Slasher, but if you tried to pump Slasher you'd only be out 2 mana as opposed to 4. In 2 colors to boot).
Twinblade Slasher is not a good mana sink because its ability can only be activated once each turn.
Polymorph itself is actually more playable than most people give credit. Bitterblossom/Polymorph decks have appeared in Dailies before, which suggests that a redundant effect might be strong. Does Polymorphist carry the torch too? She has some obvious issues; low toughness, high casting cost (although Decay-proof is nice), can't realistically be activated before turn 5 or 4 with acceleration, and can't find Emrakul. That said, she also doesn't target the creature to be sacrificed and can be re-used. But that ignores the biggest issue with the card, which is that it's not good with Polymorph itself; you don't want to flip into this when you could flip into Emrakul. So secretly, she's not even the redundancy you want in that deck, even though she looks like it at first glance.
Actually what kills it is that it's counterproductive to textbook polymorph plays.
I mean, if I wanted a permanent that did this, I'm pretty sure Proteus Staff is the way to go, not a card that can be Polymorphed into, that then tells you your best Polymorph target shall now be Blightsteel Colossus (whom I love, but cannot figure out how to work outside of Vintage)
Actually what kills it is that it's counterproductive to textbook polymorph plays.
I mean, if I wanted a permanent that did this, I'm pretty sure Proteus Staff is the way to go, not a card that can be Polymorphed into, that then tells you your best Polymorph target shall now be Blightsteel Colossus (whom I love, but cannot figure out how to work outside of Vintage)
Agreed. The thing that makes her unplayable is that you can't run her in a Polymorph shell without running the risk of flipping her when you wanted to flip something better. Proteus Staff, despite its Decay vulnerability, is way less fragile than Jalira, and that card sees zero play in this format.
If you could relably control the state of your library, she could work. Then you could use her as a tutor, rather than a combo engine. Shed be a blue, fuanaish shaman.
If you could relably control the state of your library, she could work. Then you could use her as a tutor, rather than a combo engine. Shed be a blue, fuanaish shaman.
The big problem beyond removal (GY hate & combo can be worked around, see Living End) is evasion. Neither of these beat sticks can actually hit the player behind a wall of Goys or Souls. Where's mah trample? :/
I feel like a non-Vine Dredge deck is pretty close to being possible, but it's just missing a certain something.
Would this theoretical self-mill deck take off with Brawn and/or Wonder in the format? That might actually be an incentive to drop your library in the graveyard.
Erebos B | Ghost Council WB | Grimgrin UB | Jhoira UR
Jor Kadeen RW | Melek UR | Mimeoplasm GUB | Rasputin WU
Savra BG | Sisay GW | Teneb BGW | Thada Adel U | Wort BR
I draft and play EDH. If a Standard player can't understand who a card is for, it's probably for me.
I also write things about good films.
Smelt!
I swear I didn't random Ghoultree and repick!
It doesn't get much more efficient than Smelt when it comes to blowing up artifacts, but in almost all cases, you are going to be better off with Wear//Tear, Ancient Grudge, or Vandalblast.
Meta defendant pick, if you ask me.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Regarding running a 4-color deck without fetchlands:
MostlyLost on Cockatrice.
EDH: Varolz, the Scar-Striped
Seedcradle Witch!
I was always a huge fan of this card with Viridian Joiner, but that was more of a kitchen table combo than a competitive one.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
However, my ranking for 1CMC mana sinks is Sunblade Elf > Twinblade Slasher > Seedcradle Witch. Sunblade Elf is the best because it's a 2/2 - you could just attack to victory with a bunch of SBEs and Sentinels. Slasher has wither and a lower activation cost. Witch is unquestionably weaker in combat than the other two, and the ability can be fizzled by killing the target (also true for Slasher, but if you tried to pump Slasher you'd only be out 2 mana as opposed to 4. In 2 colors to boot).
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Twinblade Slasher is not a good mana sink because its ability can only be activated once each turn.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Really wish the activated ability didn't have Green in it.
I for one like Ranger of Eos targets that happen to be mana sinks.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Jalira, Master Polymorphist!
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Polymorph itself is actually more playable than most people give credit. Bitterblossom/Polymorph decks have appeared in Dailies before, which suggests that a redundant effect might be strong. Does Polymorphist carry the torch too? She has some obvious issues; low toughness, high casting cost (although Decay-proof is nice), can't realistically be activated before turn 5 or 4 with acceleration, and can't find Emrakul. That said, she also doesn't target the creature to be sacrificed and can be re-used. But that ignores the biggest issue with the card, which is that it's not good with Polymorph itself; you don't want to flip into this when you could flip into Emrakul. So secretly, she's not even the redundancy you want in that deck, even though she looks like it at first glance.
I mean, if I wanted a permanent that did this, I'm pretty sure Proteus Staff is the way to go, not a card that can be Polymorphed into, that then tells you your best Polymorph target shall now be Blightsteel Colossus (whom I love, but cannot figure out how to work outside of Vintage)
Agreed. The thing that makes her unplayable is that you can't run her in a Polymorph shell without running the risk of flipping her when you wanted to flip something better. Proteus Staff, despite its Decay vulnerability, is way less fragile than Jalira, and that card sees zero play in this format.
Edit: Helps if I can spell.....
Maybe a strange Charbelcher build?
If it didn't say nonlegendary, it would often just hit another Jalira off of the ability.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.