Taking a cue from those EDH folks hanging around the site, the staff have decided to start our own Modern-specific Random Card of the Day discussion. Cards might be sleeper bombs, old Modern veterans, comically bad beyond belief, or personally interesting to users. So whether you want brewing ideas or random entertainment, this is a thread for you.
Here's how card selection will work for now.
RCD SELECTION METHOD
I will go to Gatherer and click the "Random Card" button until the first Modern legal card appears.
Basic lands, vanilla creatures (at staff discretion), banned cards, and duplicates will get thrown away and a new card will be selected
Cards that are obviously unplayable in Modern (e.g. Thraben Valiant) will also be thrown out at staff discretion.
The thread will update between 9:00 AM and 11:00 AM Central Time on non-holiday weekdays (M,T,W,Th,F).
Just to make sure things stay on track, here are some basic ground rules for the discussion.
RCD GROUNDRULES
Only discuss the current card. If you get super pumped about a card one day and think it needs more discussion, feel free to start an SCD thread in Modern General (be sure to search and make sure one doesn't already exist).
Keep discussion on Modern only. It's okay to talk about how the card is a Commander allstar for you, as long as you also try to translate that into Modern applicability
If a card sucks don't spam. Explain why. Don't post anything. Or tell a funny story. We are going to be more lenient with spam here than in other threads, but don't just respond to a Chimney Imp with an "lol" or something similar.
All other forum rules and Modern rules also apply.
Below you can find a list of all previous cards and their showcase date. This is updated daily.
I could see it being used in a Green Weenie/Dork strategy, but other than a deck specifically built around it it would never be too big for the cost. Though if I were to look at something like this, I would probably play Nemesis of Mortals first, as it has the base P/T to stay alive after GY hate, and if it doesn't get Hated out you can Monstrous it cheap for double the creature double the fun.
A 10/10 for 4 is much better than a 2/2.... 1/1.... 5/5.... 4/4 for 2, in my humble opinion.
(I was wondering why we didn't have one of these over here just last night, to be completely honest.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
If there was a way to protect your graveyard, maybe. Without that he dies to grave hate, and you need a good way to get creatures in the grave. Maybe a pairing of Bitterblossom, Lotleth Troll, along with self mill like mulch. Would Witchbane Orb stop grave hate by chance?
If you have hexproof doesnt that extend to your graveyard (for Sooze's ability)? While it doesnt stop relic or RiP, a deck running Boneyard Wurm doesnt want its creatures to come back out of the grave, they need to stay there and be good corpses (unlike those pesky zombies) so the Cage doesnt do much. Now if you wanted to run a late game reanimator packafe with unburial rites then I would agree with the cage shutting you down, but thats a different subjct.
Back when I played stanard me and my buddy mewing loki used him. We were running a dredge vine list (standard, so not really) but we took advantage of the bad removal at the time by running it along side Ambush Viper removal, flashback cards with eternal alchemy, Ghoultree, but Splinterfright was our main man.
I don't have too much to add. The fact that it dies to graveyard hate is a major strike against it, and it is probably worse than Tarmogoyf in almost all situations. I think if Golgari Grave-Troll got unbanned, maybe Dredgevine or something like it would be able to use this.
I played against a deck with this, splinterfreight and a a couple of other things, that constellation card from theros. It was good. I didn't HAVE grave hate game 1, just like anyone elses deck and the damn things were coming into play as 17/17s. Totally overloaded my removal.
I think the deck was a little casual, or in the somewhat early stages of experimental, but nothing unfixable.
One of the ways I can tell that a card is not worth playing is the "I would play this if it was a _____" test.
Boneyard Wurm is a vanilla beater. How big does he have to be for you to play him? A 3/3 for 2 mana is par for the course, so Wurm has to be 4/4 or bigger.
How likely is it that you have 4 or more creatures in your graveyard? (Even if you build your entire deck around it?) Well, even the zaniest build-around-it deck won't drop below 20 lands. If we assume the rest are creatures and you're using mill to pump him up, you need to mill an average of 6 cards to get him to 4/4.
Now consider Wurm's spot on the curve: it's a 2, so ideally you would want to lead T1 mill spell into T2 Wurm. Unfortunately, even the best mill spell can't mill 6 reliably. Thought Scour mills 5, one shy. Faithless Looting pitching creature + Stinkweed Imp and Dredging on the next draw is close (the other creature counts as 1, then Imp mills 5 and only needs to hit 3 creatures), but unreliable. And remember, we assumed 20 lands and 40 creatures, and those Scours/Lootings are neither, so you're actually less likely to mill a creature for Wurm with those cards in your deck.
Lotleth Troll is just better most of the time, discarding is the only way you're going to get the wurm big enough before turn 4 usually and having regeneration plus not dying to grave hate is important.
I always liked Boneyard Wurm for being a simple 2cmc dude who could get out of control real fast in the absence of grave hate.
Of course, "absence" is wishing for too much, and Goyf does the important gist of that routine in a more degenerate fashion (counting variety of card types across all yards as opposed to number of a specific type in your yard alone). But hey, theoretically he can outgrow a Goyf.
I think im in agreence with alot said here. He isnt unplayable, but i think he needs to be spinterfright. He wants yo be in a dredge deck but doesnt dredge himself.
do remember everyone, point of the thread is to question cards, how it could be made good, and what the meta would have to look like for it to succeed. Thought exersizes.
Boneyard Wurm can feed itself with that * toughness, which is amusing, but that's about it. If it had trample and/or cared about every card in your graveyard, it would be significantly better, maybe even playable.
It is such a disappointment that Archive Trap cannot self-target.
It really is. It would easily make up for the loss of GGT.
There just isn't any good way to flip your deck into your graveyard in one turn in modern. :/
It is such a disappointment that Archive Trap cannot self-target.
It really is. It would easily make up for the loss of GGT.
There just isn't any good way to flip your deck into your graveyard in one turn in modern. :/
Enough for shenanigans
However, if you can pull this off, then I prefer the Vengevines over a 7/7 or something.
But that's a deck set up to abuse the only remotely good self-mill available. It's not that dissimilar from how aggro dredge works, with Vines instead of Ichorids, but I want to be able to play an Immortal Servitude deck, or combo dredge. :/
It is such a disappointment that Archive Trap cannot self-target.
It really is. It would easily make up for the loss of GGT.
There just isn't any good way to flip your deck into your graveyard in one turn in modern. :/
Enough for shenanigans
However, if you can pull this off, then I prefer the Vengevines over a 7/7 or something.
Bahahahaha I love it. It's people like you who keep the grave hate in my board. Respect.
LOL. That's great. I was just thinking yesterday while viewing this thread, "Nemesis of Mortals would be a much better card to talk about..."
I think if he had a casting cost of 1 less and maybe a single green, there would be more to him. You'd have to toss a ton of dudes in the grave to make him worth a Goyf spot. But at least he's still a body even if the graveyard gets emptied. Something like a Dredgevine list with the Satyr who digs for cards might make him almost worthwhile.
I feel like the biggest problem with cards like this is the whole "build-around-me" thing that can just get neutered by a Relic. A Tier 1 deck with Goyf keeps going even if the graveyard gets removed, since Goyf isn't the whole plan. This guy is just baiting a blow-out. But that's not to say that a deck with these mechanics wouldn't be powerful if they aren't disrupted.
Anyway, I'm really curious how this card would do in an actual Dredge since the faux-Standard one is actually capable of powering this out for GG reasonably early. If there ever becomes a way to somewhat reliably power this out on turn 2, I think this could do work. It's not susceptible to grave hate once it's on the field, which is a huge plus over Boneyard Wurm. I'm sure with Hedron Crab it would be fairly easy to get this out on turn 3 (assuming you haven't been graveyard hated by then).
But, then again, maybe Tarmogoyf is just better anyway. Who knows.
Well, again, we can ask "how big does this have to be for you to want to play it?"
A 5/5 for 4 is dime-a-dozen (Deadbridge Goliath, Polukranos), while 5/5s for 3 have big drawbacks (like restrictive mana costs - Doran, Woolly Thoctar, Leatherback Baloth, and the last two aren't even 5/5). So if you get to cast this for 3 mana, you'd be getting quite a good deal. That means you need 3 creatures in your graveyard. That's easier to achieve than Boneyard Wurm (both in terms of number of turns and creatures in graveyard needed).
In theory, it sounds like it wouldn't be too hard to build a deck that can get him out as a 3-mana 5/5 regularly. I guess it just doesn't work because it's neither A) a way to dump cards in your graveyard nor B) something that can be activated from the graveyard. Lands aside, Dredge(vine) is practically entirely composed of those two kinds of cards, and anything that isn't A or B eats into your consistency.
One option that hasn't been explored is to play a self-mill deck. I don't mean Dredge; Dredge needs both Dredgers and discard outlets to get going, while when I say self-mill, I mean just stuff like Tome Scour. The idea is to play Nemesis of Mortals and Ghoultree as your wincons, and every other card in your deck is devoted to milling yourself in order to reduce those two cards to 3 mana by turn 3. Think of it as something like Soul Sisters, but instead of gaining life, you're milling yourself.
Of course I can already point out the reasons why it won't work (dies to GY hate, removal and combo), but if you want to try it out, go ahead.
Hibernation!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Taking a cue from those EDH folks hanging around the site, the staff have decided to start our own Modern-specific Random Card of the Day discussion. Cards might be sleeper bombs, old Modern veterans, comically bad beyond belief, or personally interesting to users. So whether you want brewing ideas or random entertainment, this is a thread for you.
Here's how card selection will work for now.
RCD SELECTION METHOD
RCD GROUNDRULES
Thursday, 12/18/2014: Hibernation
Wednesday, 12/17/2014: Angelsong
Tuesday, 12/16/2014: Mind Stone
Monday, 12/15/2014: Soltari Priest
Friday, 12/12/2014: Skill Borrower
Thursday, 12/11/2014: Psychogenic Probe
Wednesday, 12/10/2014: Tezzeret the Seeker
Tuesday, 12/9/2014: Giantbaiting
Monday, 12/8/2014: Treefolk Harbinger
Friday, 12/5/2014: War's Toll
Thursday, 12/4/2014: Battle Hymn
Wednesday, 12/3/2014: Story Circle
Tuesday, 12/2/2014: Skred
Monday, 12/1/2014: Silence
Tuesday, 11/25/2014: Creeping Mold
Monday, 11/24/2014: Pyroclasm
Friday, 11/21/2014: Sword of Fire and Ice
Thursday, 11/20/2014: Razormane Masticore
Wednesday, 11/19/2014: Ornithopter
Tuesday, 11/18/2014: Zealous Persecution
Monday, 11/17/2014: Boomerang
Friday, 11/14/2014: Birds of Paradise
Thursday, 11/13/2014: Trade Routes
Wednesday, 11/12/2014: Simian Spirit Guide
Tuesday, 11/11/2014: Lifebane Zombie
Monday, 11/10/2014: Boom // Bust
Friday, 11/7/2014: Chandra, Pyromaster
Thursday, 11/6/2014: Elvish Piper
Wednesday, 11/5/2014: Tumble Magnet
Tuesday, 11/4/2014: Paladin en-Vec
Monday, 11/3/2014: Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician
Friday, 10/31/2014: Form of the Dragon
Thursday, 10/30/2014: Isolated Chapel
Wednesday, 10/29/2014: Dredgescape Zombie
Tuesday, 10/28/2014: Stone Rain
Monday, 10/27/2014: Baneslayer Angel
Friday, 10/24/2014: Knight Exemplar
Thursday, 10/23/2014: Halimar Depths
Wednesday, 10/22/2014: Solemn Simulacrum
Tuesday, 10/21/2014: Pale Recluse
Monday, 10/20/2014: Remove Soul
Friday, 10/17/2014: Tombstalker
Thursday, 10/16/2014: Progenitus
Wednesday, 10/15/2014: Sliver Hive
Tuesday, 10/14/2014: Feast of Blood
Monday, 10/13/2014: Stingscourger
Friday, 10/10/2014: Scrapyard Salvo
Thursday, 10/9/2014: Silver Myr
Wednesday, 10/8/2014: Mycoid Shepherd
Tuesday, 10/7/2014: Loxodon Hierarch
Monday, 10/6/2014: Aura of Dominion
Friday, 10/3/2014: Dispatch
Thursday, 10/2/2014: Silhana Ledgewalker
Wednesday, 10/1/2014: Pyrohemia
Tuesday, 9/30/2014: Cauldron of Souls
Monday, 9/29/2014: Elsewhere Flask
Friday, 9/26/2014: Martial Coup
Thursday, 9/25/2014: Night's Whisper
Wednesday, 9/24/2014: Lightning Bolt
Tuesday, 9/23/2014: Feral Lightning
Monday, 9/22/2014: Thraben Valiant
Friday, 9/19/2014: Horde Ambusher
Thursday, 9/18/2014: Negate
Wednesday, 9/17/2014: Mnemonic Wall
Tuesday, 9/16/2014: Spine of Ish Sah
Monday, 9/15/2014: Rubblehulk
Friday, 9/12/2014: Earthquake
Wednesday, 9/10/2014: Gideon Jura
Tuesday, 9/9/2014: Dimir Cutpurse
Monday, 9/8/2014: Soul Warden
Friday, 9/5/2014: Elgaud Shieldmate
Thursday, 9/4/2014: Evolution Charm
Wednesday, 9/3/2014: Paragon of New Dawns
Tuesday, 9/2/2014: Guttersnipe
Monday, 9/1/2014: Relic of Progenitus
Friday, 8/29/2014: Coat of Arms
Thursday, 8/28/2014: Taste of Blood
Wednesday, 8/27/2014: Fencing Ace
Tuesday, 8/26/2014: Ixidron
Monday, 8/25/2014: Sunblast Angel
Friday, 8/22/2014: Jalira, Master Polymorphist
Thursday, 8/21/2014: Seedcradle Witch
Wednesday, 8/20/2014: Smelt
Tuesday, 8/19/2014: Nemesis of Mortals
Monday, 8/18/2014: Boneyard Wurm
Boneyard Wurm!
A 10/10 for 4 is much better than a 2/2.... 1/1.... 5/5.... 4/4 for 2, in my humble opinion.
(I was wondering why we didn't have one of these over here just last night, to be completely honest.)
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
I don't have too much to add. The fact that it dies to graveyard hate is a major strike against it, and it is probably worse than Tarmogoyf in almost all situations. I think if Golgari Grave-Troll got unbanned, maybe Dredgevine or something like it would be able to use this.
I think the deck was a little casual, or in the somewhat early stages of experimental, but nothing unfixable.
Boneyard Wurm is a vanilla beater. How big does he have to be for you to play him? A 3/3 for 2 mana is par for the course, so Wurm has to be 4/4 or bigger.
How likely is it that you have 4 or more creatures in your graveyard? (Even if you build your entire deck around it?) Well, even the zaniest build-around-it deck won't drop below 20 lands. If we assume the rest are creatures and you're using mill to pump him up, you need to mill an average of 6 cards to get him to 4/4.
Now consider Wurm's spot on the curve: it's a 2, so ideally you would want to lead T1 mill spell into T2 Wurm. Unfortunately, even the best mill spell can't mill 6 reliably. Thought Scour mills 5, one shy. Faithless Looting pitching creature + Stinkweed Imp and Dredging on the next draw is close (the other creature counts as 1, then Imp mills 5 and only needs to hit 3 creatures), but unreliable. And remember, we assumed 20 lands and 40 creatures, and those Scours/Lootings are neither, so you're actually less likely to mill a creature for Wurm with those cards in your deck.
In short? Too much effort, too little reward.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Of course, "absence" is wishing for too much, and Goyf does the important gist of that routine in a more degenerate fashion (counting variety of card types across all yards as opposed to number of a specific type in your yard alone). But hey, theoretically he can outgrow a Goyf.
Theoretically.
Great thread though.
do remember everyone, point of the thread is to question cards, how it could be made good, and what the meta would have to look like for it to succeed. Thought exersizes.
4 Island
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Simic Guildgate
4 Galvanic Alchemist
4 Arbor Elf
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Civilized Scholar
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Laboratory Maniac
4 Zameck Guildmage
4 Boneyard Wurm
4 Tracker's Instincts
4 Illusionist's Bracers
I could win by milling myself and Civilized Scholar + Illusionist's Bracers to death and then win with laboratory maniac.
[center][color=Blue]
Edric Spy and die
Azami the lady of the draw
Naya Zoo
Past decks
Orloro
sharuum the hegemond
Mono black control
splinter twin
Give Zaliki a CardI must have all the cats!
It really is. It would easily make up for the loss of GGT.
There just isn't any good way to flip your deck into your graveyard in one turn in modern. :/
But that's a deck set up to abuse the only remotely good self-mill available. It's not that dissimilar from how aggro dredge works, with Vines instead of Ichorids, but I want to be able to play an Immortal Servitude deck, or combo dredge. :/
Bahahahaha I love it. It's people like you who keep the grave hate in my board. Respect.
Nemesis of Mortals!
....GATHERER IS TRYING TO TELL US SOMETHING
I think if he had a casting cost of 1 less and maybe a single green, there would be more to him. You'd have to toss a ton of dudes in the grave to make him worth a Goyf spot. But at least he's still a body even if the graveyard gets emptied. Something like a Dredgevine list with the Satyr who digs for cards might make him almost worthwhile.
I feel like the biggest problem with cards like this is the whole "build-around-me" thing that can just get neutered by a Relic. A Tier 1 deck with Goyf keeps going even if the graveyard gets removed, since Goyf isn't the whole plan. This guy is just baiting a blow-out. But that's not to say that a deck with these mechanics wouldn't be powerful if they aren't disrupted.
Anyway, I'm really curious how this card would do in an actual Dredge since the faux-Standard one is actually capable of powering this out for GG reasonably early. If there ever becomes a way to somewhat reliably power this out on turn 2, I think this could do work. It's not susceptible to grave hate once it's on the field, which is a huge plus over Boneyard Wurm. I'm sure with Hedron Crab it would be fairly easy to get this out on turn 3 (assuming you haven't been graveyard hated by then).
But, then again, maybe Tarmogoyf is just better anyway. Who knows.
A 5/5 for 4 is dime-a-dozen (Deadbridge Goliath, Polukranos), while 5/5s for 3 have big drawbacks (like restrictive mana costs - Doran, Woolly Thoctar, Leatherback Baloth, and the last two aren't even 5/5). So if you get to cast this for 3 mana, you'd be getting quite a good deal. That means you need 3 creatures in your graveyard. That's easier to achieve than Boneyard Wurm (both in terms of number of turns and creatures in graveyard needed).
In theory, it sounds like it wouldn't be too hard to build a deck that can get him out as a 3-mana 5/5 regularly. I guess it just doesn't work because it's neither A) a way to dump cards in your graveyard nor B) something that can be activated from the graveyard. Lands aside, Dredge(vine) is practically entirely composed of those two kinds of cards, and anything that isn't A or B eats into your consistency.
One option that hasn't been explored is to play a self-mill deck. I don't mean Dredge; Dredge needs both Dredgers and discard outlets to get going, while when I say self-mill, I mean just stuff like Tome Scour. The idea is to play Nemesis of Mortals and Ghoultree as your wincons, and every other card in your deck is devoted to milling yourself in order to reduce those two cards to 3 mana by turn 3. Think of it as something like Soul Sisters, but instead of gaining life, you're milling yourself.
Of course I can already point out the reasons why it won't work (dies to GY hate, removal and combo), but if you want to try it out, go ahead.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.