I'm quite curious to see what the meta will be now with Infect and Death Shadow Zoo on the fall (Infect should still be tier 2 at least, probably low tier 1). More BG/x for sure, but also more Tron, so we'll have the battle of midrange vs. linear strategy there. Tron will prey upon Jund/Junk, but the later will slash most of the field. I'm curious about how control and combo will fare.
I guess Ad Nauseam, RG Breach, Grishoalbrand and all the combo decks will have more room now that Infect and Zoo will be on the decline, but sideboard slots will be needed for Leyline of Sanctity and Thoughtseize as well as Celestial Purge in Ad Nauseam.
I think control will have also more room, so it's good news for Grixis Control, Jeskai draw-go and Esper Control. Even Mono-Blue Tron and Scapeshift should move up in the ranks.
Don't forget Bant Eldrazi which will prey on the Midrange decks and have a better Tron match-up (but worse aggro match-up).
I think, that nothing big will change compared to now. Infect is still rock solid, just the GB version got better than the UG one (better interaction and "better" creatures (Crusader)). Dredge will be kicked down too Tier 2, which is fine.
Rest will stay the same.
Basically, these are by far the lowest impact ban we had seen so far (but BBE), which results into mine opinion, that nothing big will change.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I can try to ask Corey more when I see him, since he is fairly local. The problem is that whereas people hear my "I'm doing okay" at FNM at 4-1, Corey will say "I'm doing okay" at a Grand Prix at 9-0 or 8-1. He can be overly critical of himself, while he has made fine decisions and amazing plays.
I've seen a downtick in Titanshift to nearly 1%, while Breach has stayed somewhat strong at 3.5%. Tron can be dodged. Dredge and Bant won't be dodged, but the matchups are not unwinnable. Grixis Control has some tools to win (Surgical Extraction and ScM), so it's possible that his outplaying his opponents and a bit of luck got him
Strong decks historically see lots of play. Grixis is not a strong deck in today's meta at all. The people who play it are people who are passionately (or stubbornly) tied to those colors and that kind of gameplay. Nobody is playing and expecting to win events (which Cory has said himself in interviews).
And yet the results based on recent success with the deck says otherwise. The deck is atleast tier 2 powerlevel wise before fatal push's printing.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
I can try to ask Corey more when I see him, since he is fairly local. The problem is that whereas people hear my "I'm doing okay" at FNM at 4-1, Corey will say "I'm doing okay" at a Grand Prix at 9-0 or 8-1. He can be overly critical of himself, while he has made fine decisions and amazing plays.
I've seen a downtick in Titanshift to nearly 1%, while Breach has stayed somewhat strong at 3.5%. Tron can be dodged. Dredge and Bant won't be dodged, but the matchups are not unwinnable. Grixis Control has some tools to win (Surgical Extraction and ScM), so it's possible that his outplaying his opponents and a bit of luck got him
Strong decks historically see lots of play. Grixis is not a strong deck in today's meta at all. The people who play it are people who are passionately (or stubbornly) tied to those colors and that kind of gameplay. Nobody is playing and expecting to win events (which Cory has said himself in interviews).
And yet the results based on recent success with the deck says otherwise. The deck is atleast tier 2 powerlevel wise before fatal push's printing.
I firmly hope that Grixis can get better. But we'll definitely have to see how the meta shakes out with seeing the downgrade of several fast creature decks that served as positive matchups for Grixis Control. And while I love Fatal Push, the problem with the card is that it really doesn't do anything against the deck's worst matchups (Eldrazi/Tron/Valakut); it only really makes the good/borderline matchups slightly better. And although I've been playing Delver most of the time the past year, losing Gitaxian Probe hurts the aggressive Pyromancer builds a lot. I've got everything played in Grixis Control ready to be sleeved and played, but nothing tells me it's a smart decision to play if my goal is winning. I play the deck because it's fun, not because it's good. Closing speed and win conditions are still a huge hurdle the deck has to overcome, and that's assuming your answers line up enough to get to the mid and late game. It will be especially difficult against the predicted influx of big mana decks (Eldrazi/Tron/Valakut).
Last time I checked Infect was still around and is a good deck versus Tron, Valakut and Eldrazi. People will still play Infect, so naturally Grixis
will be favoured.
At my LGS, I saw 2 decks that I was considering make a push - Bant Eldrazi and various Tron versions. They should be good against decks that want to play Fatal Push - people trying Control variants and Midrange strategies.
I personally played Elves and dodged those, but I do think that Elves is in a terrible place. Tron is pretty darn bad for Elves. Jund dodged Tron and put 2 in the top 3.
I do think that Grishoalbrand should do well in this meta - sort of crushes Tron.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I figured by now most Jund/Midrange players would be accustomed to facing Tron. Honestly, Eldrazi is a bigger headache but everyone has their arch-nemesis I suppose.
Last time I checked Infect was still around and is a good deck versus Tron, Valakut and Eldrazi. People will still play Infect, so naturally Grixis
will be favoured.
What makes Grixis difficult (and really any Uxx Control/Midrange currently around) is that the good matchups are like 55/45 and the bad matchups are 30/70. We just saw a ban that would likely reduce the fast creature decks (the 55/45 matchups) and increase the big mana decks (30/70 matchups). Even if things remain as they are, there's really no slam dunk matchup for these kinds of decks. Combine that with several horrible Tier 1 matchups and you've got a deck destined for mediocrity until it gets better answers for the bad matchups or faster, more reliable win conditions.
I can try to ask Corey more when I see him, since he is fairly local. The problem is that whereas people hear my "I'm doing okay" at FNM at 4-1, Corey will say "I'm doing okay" at a Grand Prix at 9-0 or 8-1. He can be overly critical of himself, while he has made fine decisions and amazing plays.
I've seen a downtick in Titanshift to nearly 1%, while Breach has stayed somewhat strong at 3.5%. Tron can be dodged. Dredge and Bant won't be dodged, but the matchups are not unwinnable. Grixis Control has some tools to win (Surgical Extraction and ScM), so it's possible that his outplaying his opponents and a bit of luck got him
Strong decks historically see lots of play. Grixis is not a strong deck in today's meta at all. The people who play it are people who are passionately (or stubbornly) tied to those colors and that kind of gameplay. Nobody is playing and expecting to win events (which Cory has said himself in interviews).
And yet the results based on recent success with the deck says otherwise. The deck is atleast tier 2 powerlevel wise before fatal push's printing.
I firmly hope that Grixis can get better. But we'll definitely have to see how the meta shakes out with seeing the downgrade of several fast creature decks that served as positive matchups for Grixis Control. And while I love Fatal Push, the problem with the card is that it really doesn't do anything against the deck's worst matchups (Eldrazi/Tron/Valakut); it only really makes the good/borderline matchups slightly better. And although I've been playing Delver most of the time the past year, losing Gitaxian Probe hurts the aggressive Pyromancer builds a lot. I've got everything played in Grixis Control ready to be sleeved and played, but nothing tells me it's a smart decision to play if my goal is winning. I play the deck because it's fun, not because it's good. Closing speed and win conditions are still a huge hurdle the deck has to overcome, and that's assuming your answers line up enough to get to the mid and late game. It will be especially difficult against the predicted influx of big mana decks (Eldrazi/Tron/Valakut).
Many of us Gruxis Delvers are at 2 YP max, and had taken out the Probes anyway. Many of us were at 3-4 Terminate and a cut or dismember. Most of us will do a 2-2 Terminate/Push split with Cryptic coming back in. We may have time now for the 3U/4CMC. But, I'm probably going back to Boros Burn or Abzan Company for a while.
In other news, SaffronOlive reported earlier today that a Modern event/league/something (trying to find the source) has just been won by Jeskai Saheeli, featuring both Felidar Guardian and Sun Titan versions of the combo, in the same deck.
Is it a sign?
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Vorthos-y Johnny. All will be One
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
In other news, SaffronOlive reported earlier today that a Modern event/league/something (trying to find the source) has just been won by Jeskai Saheeli, featuring both Felidar Guardian and Sun Titan versions of the combo, in the same deck.
Is it a sign?
Weird random decks win small events all the time. With enough luck, weird random decks can win GPs. Its true test is consistent success in a meta that adapts to deal with it.
In other news, SaffronOlive reported earlier today that a Modern event/league/something (trying to find the source) has just been won by Jeskai Saheeli, featuring both Felidar Guardian and Sun Titan versions of the combo, in the same deck.
Last time I checked Infect was still around and is a good deck versus Tron, Valakut and Eldrazi. People will still play Infect, so naturally Grixis
will be favoured.
What makes Grixis difficult (and really any Uxx Control/Midrange currently around) is that the good matchups are like 55/45 and the bad matchups are 30/70. We just saw a ban that would likely reduce the fast creature decks (the 55/45 matchups) and increase the big mana decks (30/70 matchups). Even if things remain as they are, there's really no slam dunk matchup for these kinds of decks. Combine that with several horrible Tier 1 matchups and you've got a deck destined for mediocrity until it gets better answers for the bad matchups or faster, more reliable win conditions.
im facing alot of tron valakut and Eldrazi online, out of 50 games 25 where those decks..... . Looks like I'm sitting this one out. Would be nice if we could get a snappy deck in tier 1. wizards you f'ed us on that Twin ban it was our only way to beat big mana decks, then you added eldrazi.....thnx
Talk to you fellow blue mage players later!I'm taking another couple months off until the next b and r announcement!
Do you all play Competitive Leagues or what? I'm playing almost exclusively Comp Leagues and consistently face 2 highly interactive decks per 5 matches (Jund, Abzan, Grixis, Jeskai, D&T, etc.). The remaining 3 are split between minimally interactive decks like Abzan Company, Burn, Affinity, BG Tron, Bant Eldrazi, and much less interactive decks like Valakut, Infect, Dredge, Grishoalbrand, etc. All that is to say my MTGO experience is highly diverse at the Comp League level, with the most consistent decks I'm facing all in the interactive camp.
It's possible this doesn't apply to people here, but I get the feeling that many people complaining about the Modern metagame aren't actually playing it and are just looking at stats exclusively. This might not be the case with either users in this thread or more generally those complaining about balance on this forum, but if it is, I encourage you to play first before criticizing. If you have a different experience than mine I'd love to hear about it and compare meta notes.
MTGO feels pretty interactive to me as well, there are a lot of Jund, Grixis, and Esper decks floating in with the UR Prowess and Affinity. Only a few Infects so far...
you've been getting lucky then cuz ive been facing exactly what mtg goldfish states: top 14= 2 bg/x, affiity, tron, burn, bant eldrazi, titanshift, death shadow ,ad nauseum, rg breach, amulet titan, eldra tron and 2 urx decks.
thats 4 non linear decks vs 10 linear decks in the top 14...... modern meta is currently not looking good for non linear decks imo.
Btw, quick question. Did they stop publishing Day 2 "Metagame"? I cannot find anything on the official wizard page, which sucks big time if they stop to publish them
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I guess Ad Nauseam, RG Breach, Grishoalbrand and all the combo decks will have more room now that Infect and Zoo will be on the decline, but sideboard slots will be needed for Leyline of Sanctity and Thoughtseize as well as Celestial Purge in Ad Nauseam.
I think control will have also more room, so it's good news for Grixis Control, Jeskai draw-go and Esper Control. Even Mono-Blue Tron and Scapeshift should move up in the ranks.
Overall good news I guess.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I think, that nothing big will change compared to now. Infect is still rock solid, just the GB version got better than the UG one (better interaction and "better" creatures (Crusader)). Dredge will be kicked down too Tier 2, which is fine.
Rest will stay the same.
Basically, these are by far the lowest impact ban we had seen so far (but BBE), which results into mine opinion, that nothing big will change.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
And yet the results based on recent success with the deck says otherwise. The deck is atleast tier 2 powerlevel wise before fatal push's printing.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I firmly hope that Grixis can get better. But we'll definitely have to see how the meta shakes out with seeing the downgrade of several fast creature decks that served as positive matchups for Grixis Control. And while I love Fatal Push, the problem with the card is that it really doesn't do anything against the deck's worst matchups (Eldrazi/Tron/Valakut); it only really makes the good/borderline matchups slightly better. And although I've been playing Delver most of the time the past year, losing Gitaxian Probe hurts the aggressive Pyromancer builds a lot. I've got everything played in Grixis Control ready to be sleeved and played, but nothing tells me it's a smart decision to play if my goal is winning. I play the deck because it's fun, not because it's good. Closing speed and win conditions are still a huge hurdle the deck has to overcome, and that's assuming your answers line up enough to get to the mid and late game. It will be especially difficult against the predicted influx of big mana decks (Eldrazi/Tron/Valakut).
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
will be favoured.
I personally played Elves and dodged those, but I do think that Elves is in a terrible place. Tron is pretty darn bad for Elves. Jund dodged Tron and put 2 in the top 3.
I do think that Grishoalbrand should do well in this meta - sort of crushes Tron.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)What makes Grixis difficult (and really any Uxx Control/Midrange currently around) is that the good matchups are like 55/45 and the bad matchups are 30/70. We just saw a ban that would likely reduce the fast creature decks (the 55/45 matchups) and increase the big mana decks (30/70 matchups). Even if things remain as they are, there's really no slam dunk matchup for these kinds of decks. Combine that with several horrible Tier 1 matchups and you've got a deck destined for mediocrity until it gets better answers for the bad matchups or faster, more reliable win conditions.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Many of us Gruxis Delvers are at 2 YP max, and had taken out the Probes anyway. Many of us were at 3-4 Terminate and a cut or dismember. Most of us will do a 2-2 Terminate/Push split with Cryptic coming back in. We may have time now for the 3U/4CMC. But, I'm probably going back to Boros Burn or Abzan Company for a while.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
Is it a sign?
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
Weird random decks win small events all the time. With enough luck, weird random decks can win GPs. Its true test is consistent success in a meta that adapts to deal with it.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
You mean this thing - http://www.magic-league.com/deck/93813/modern.html#Jeskai ?
After skimming through this list it looks like a random pile and not good at all which makes me question how competitve this event actually was.
Talk to you fellow blue mage players later!I'm taking another couple months off until the next b and r announcement!
decks playing:
none
It's possible this doesn't apply to people here, but I get the feeling that many people complaining about the Modern metagame aren't actually playing it and are just looking at stats exclusively. This might not be the case with either users in this thread or more generally those complaining about balance on this forum, but if it is, I encourage you to play first before criticizing. If you have a different experience than mine I'd love to hear about it and compare meta notes.
Spirits
thats 4 non linear decks vs 10 linear decks in the top 14...... modern meta is currently not looking good for non linear decks imo.
decks playing:
none
Collective Brutality
Collective brutality is a great card, I guess black still does provide some great sideboard options too
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
TCG has all the T8 decks on their site though their listing is pretty awful.
Thanks, the listing is in fact awful!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R