4x Serum Visions and your win-cons being 1 drops helps quite a bit. Back when I played RUG Twin I ran 23 lands I think because of 4x Visions, and I didn't have problems hitting 4 lands by turn 4.
It still is a stretch. Back when I played Grixis control I ran a similar configuration and still had occasional mana problems.
Although I am happy to see control at the top tables... it doesn't necessarily mean control is a viable choice for tier 1 deck.
The issue with control has always been drawing the wrong half of your deck. Since alot of the answers in Modern are powerful but one sided - the viability of control often hinges on draws.
From what games I saw of the Grixis player... he drew exceptionally.
4x Serum Visions and your win-cons being 1 drops helps quite a bit. Back when I played RUG Twin I ran 23 lands I think because of 4x Visions, and I didn't have problems hitting 4 lands by turn 4.
It still is a stretch. Back when I played Grixis control I ran a similar configuration and still had occasional mana problems.
Although I am happy to see control at the top tables... it doesn't necessarily mean control is a viable choice for tier 1 deck.
The issue with control has always been drawing the wrong half of your deck. Since alot of the answers in Modern are powerful but one sided - the viability of control often hinges on draws.
From what games I saw of the Grixis player... he drew exceptionally.
Yeah I would not run 22 lands in Grixis either. In UWR I run 24 with 3x Serum Visions and that seems adequate.
What happens if Dredge draws the wrong half of their deck tho? Just a bunch of Dredgers and no way to pitch them? Or Grishoalbrand? Or Twin for that matter? I had plenty of games where I drew every copy of Twin and like two Cryptics and just died. I played against a Scapeshift dude last friday who drew too many Mountains and scooped. Just part of Magic.
4x Serum Visions and your win-cons being 1 drops helps quite a bit. Back when I played RUG Twin I ran 23 lands I think because of 4x Visions, and I didn't have problems hitting 4 lands by turn 4.
It still is a stretch. Back when I played Grixis control I ran a similar configuration and still had occasional mana problems.
Although I am happy to see control at the top tables... it doesn't necessarily mean control is a viable choice for tier 1 deck.
The issue with control has always been drawing the wrong half of your deck. Since alot of the answers in Modern are powerful but one sided - the viability of control often hinges on draws.
From what games I saw of the Grixis player... he drew exceptionally.
Yeah I would not run 22 lands in Grixis either. In UWR I run 24 with 3x Serum Visions and that seems adequate.
What happens if Dredge draws the wrong half of their deck tho? Just a bunch of Dredgers and no way to pitch them? Or Grishoalbrand? Or Twin for that matter? I had plenty of games where I drew every copy of Twin and like two Cryptics and just died. I played against a Scapeshift dude last friday who drew too many Mountains and scooped. Just part of Magic.
It's less likely to happen in other decks because they are proactive.
Even in twin, drawing two Splinter Twin was not terrible when you could put it on snapcaster or Clique.
The problem (from my experience) that variance happens far more when piloting control decks.
There is a reason most control decks have a proactive game-plan now (Nahiri, Jeskai Flash, Even Grixis).
You care about that variance alot less when you can turn 2 a tasigur.
"Dredge is too strong" Only gets 2 decks in top 64 "Everyone got luck and drew their hate cards!"
"Control is Dead" Control takes top 3 at 2000+ GP "Complete Fluke! Literal Lottery Winners!"
"Grixis is awful" Grixis Control goes 14-0-1 in Swiss "Lucky draws! Variance! Still really awful!"
At some point you're going to need to admit to yourself that if you're not winning with a control deck, maybe you aren't as good at playing control as you thought.
"Dredge is too strong" Only gets 2 decks in top 64 "Everyone got luck and drew their hate cards!"
"Control is Dead" Control takes top 3 at 2000+ GP "Complete Fluke! Literal Lottery Winners!"
"Grixis is awful" Grixis Control goes 14-0-1 in Swiss "Lucky draws! Variance! Still really awful!"
At some point you're going to need to admit to yourself that if you're not winning with a control deck, maybe you aren't as good at playing control as you thought.
Lol yep. To be fair Nahiri and Tasigur really helped two control archetypes. But I do love that the UWR list that won just said 'Nope' to win cons and straight up Cryptic'd people to death
"Dredge is too strong" Only gets 2 decks in top 64 "Everyone got luck and drew their hate cards!"
"Control is Dead" Control takes top 3 at 2000+ GP "Complete Fluke! Literal Lottery Winners!"
"Grixis is awful" Grixis Control goes 14-0-1 in Swiss "Lucky draws! Variance! Still really awful!"
At some point you're going to need to admit to yourself that if you're not winning with a control deck, maybe you aren't as good at playing control as you thought.
Those two decks (Jeskai and Grixis) had a fantastic run. An excellent meta call, extremely skillful play, extremely speedy play (to avoid draws), and often on the positive side of matchups and variance. It was a shimmering and amazing performance of two players on really, really great days.
Then you look at the fact that out of more than 2,000 players, these were literally the only 2 decks of their kind that made Day 2 (and about half a dozen others that could be similarly grouped as URx reactive decks), and you have to stop and ask "why did nobody else playing anything like this do well?"
It could be that control decks are perfectly fine and totally viable competitive options, and that would be awesome! It could be that these guys had a super lucky run on a distinct meta call with decks that nobody expected or prepared for and dodged many or all of their worst matchups. Unfortunately, this puts us right back into the "wait and see" mentality to see if this was just a fluke or a positive upward trend for control. Hopefully it IS indicative of a positive trend, but given the top 100 archetypes... I'm not super optimistic.
"Dredge is too strong" Only gets 2 decks in top 64 "Everyone got luck and drew their hate cards!"
"Control is Dead" Control takes top 3 at 2000+ GP "Complete Fluke! Literal Lottery Winners!"
"Grixis is awful" Grixis Control goes 14-0-1 in Swiss "Lucky draws! Variance! Still really awful!"
At some point you're going to need to admit to yourself that if you're not winning with a control deck, maybe you aren't as good at playing control as you thought.
Those two decks (Jeskai and Grixis) had a fantastic run. An excellent meta call, extremely skillful play, extremely speedy play (to avoid draws), and often on the positive side of matchups and variance.
Do you have a list of the matchups they faced? Because if you don't you 'd better not call them lucky. Instead, learn to play control decks better if you want to win. They proved you can win if you are good enough. Apparently, you are not.
I guess that is a completely fair interpretation as to why nobody else out of the 2000+ players did well with a control deck. Nobody else is good enough.
"Dredge is too strong" Only gets 2 decks in top 64 "Everyone got luck and drew their hate cards!"
"Control is Dead" Control takes top 3 at 2000+ GP "Complete Fluke! Literal Lottery Winners!"
"Grixis is awful" Grixis Control goes 14-0-1 in Swiss "Lucky draws! Variance! Still really awful!"
At some point you're going to need to admit to yourself that if you're not winning with a control deck, maybe you aren't as good at playing control as you thought.
Those two decks (Jeskai and Grixis) had a fantastic run. An excellent meta call, extremely skillful play, extremely speedy play (to avoid draws), and often on the positive side of matchups and variance.
Do you have a list of the matchups they faced? Because if you don't you 'd better not call them lucky. Instead, learn to play control decks better if you want to win. They proved you can win if you are good enough. Apparently, you are not.
I guess that is a completely fair interpretation as to why nobody else out of the 2000+ players did well with a control deck. Nobody else is good enough.
I guess that is a completely fair interpretation as to why nobody else out of the 2000+ players did well with a Dredge deck. Nobody else is good enough.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
"Dredge is too strong" Only gets 2 decks in top 64 "Everyone got luck and drew their hate cards!"
"Control is Dead" Control takes top 3 at 2000+ GP "Complete Fluke! Literal Lottery Winners!"
"Grixis is awful" Grixis Control goes 14-0-1 in Swiss "Lucky draws! Variance! Still really awful!"
At some point you're going to need to admit to yourself that if you're not winning with a control deck, maybe you aren't as good at playing control as you thought.
Those two decks (Jeskai and Grixis) had a fantastic run. An excellent meta call, extremely skillful play, extremely speedy play (to avoid draws), and often on the positive side of matchups and variance.
Do you have a list of the matchups they faced? Because if you don't you 'd better not call them lucky. Instead, learn to play control decks better if you want to win. They proved you can win if you are good enough. Apparently, you are not.
I guess that is a completely fair interpretation as to why nobody else out of the 2000+ players did well with a control deck. Nobody else is good enough.
I guess that is a completely fair interpretation as to why nobody else out of the 2000+ players did well with a Dredge deck. Nobody else is good enough.
Greetings,
Kathal
Yeah, that's why BBD was the only one to top 8. He's just better than everyone in the room, and also has a good history of playing Modern decks that get banned shortly after.
"Dredge is too strong" Only gets 2 decks in top 64 "Everyone got luck and drew their hate cards!"
"Control is Dead" Control takes top 3 at 2000+ GP "Complete Fluke! Literal Lottery Winners!"
"Grixis is awful" Grixis Control goes 14-0-1 in Swiss "Lucky draws! Variance! Still really awful!"
At some point you're going to need to admit to yourself that if you're not winning with a control deck, maybe you aren't as good at playing control as you thought.
Those two decks (Jeskai and Grixis) had a fantastic run. An excellent meta call, extremely skillful play, extremely speedy play (to avoid draws), and often on the positive side of matchups and variance.
Do you have a list of the matchups they faced? Because if you don't you 'd better not call them lucky. Instead, learn to play control decks better if you want to win. They proved you can win if you are good enough. Apparently, you are not.
I guess that is a completely fair interpretation as to why nobody else out of the 2000+ players did well with a control deck. Nobody else is good enough.
Not everyone else whines and bashes the format that much, even after a GREAT GP coverage. That's gotta count for something I guess! #UnbanSplinterTwin
If you actually quoted my whole post, you would have gotten the comment about wishing and hoping this is a positive trend for the future and not some fluke. The numbers right now seem to line up as a fluke and the top 100 decks do not inspire confidence, but if this can be sustained and grow, I might actually have hope for this format.
Those two decks (Jeskai and Grixis) had a fantastic run. An excellent meta call, extremely skillful play, extremely speedy play (to avoid draws), and often on the positive side of matchups and variance.
Do you have a list of the matchups they faced? Because if you don't you 'd better not call them lucky. Instead, learn to play control decks better if you want to win. They proved you can win if you are good enough. Apparently, you are not.
I guess that is a completely fair interpretation as to why nobody else out of the 2000+ players did well with a control deck. Nobody else is good enough.
I guess that is a completely fair interpretation as to why nobody else out of the 2000+ players did well with a Dredge deck. Nobody else is good enough.
Greetings,
Kathal
Yeah, that's why BBD was the only one to top 8. He's just better than everyone in the room, and also has a good history of playing Modern decks that get banned shortly after.
BBD is a spike. He knows when something is better than everything else. Just look how long the tournament scene took to show amulets power. Most decks that play game on a different axis take time to pick up in paper than they do on modo. If I really wanted to do better than I am currently I would play dredge or infect but I like playing fair decks too much although if there was an option for combo conttol in modern that was at least competitive I would jump on it in a heartbeat. For the closest thing to an interactive deck with the potential for free wins is blue moon so I will stick with that until something else comes along.
Control players had a very good run at the GP, they played very well and proved that control is far from being dead in Modern but rather just the opposite, you just need to know how to play it.
The statement "control players had a good run" seems to imply that control players as a whole did well. That's not exactly the same thing as two people playing control decks doing well. I'm thrilled that these two guys had such a great run with Jeskai and Grixis, but I would have LOVED to see more than just a couple of people in all of Day 2.
Control players had a very good run at the GP, they played very well and proved that control is far from being dead in Modern but rather just the opposite, you just need to know how to play it.
The statement "control players had a good run" seems to imply that control players as a whole did well. That's not exactly the same thing as two people playing control decks doing well. I'm thrilled that these two guys had such a great run with Jeskai and Grixis, but I would have LOVED to see more than just a couple of people in all of Day 2.
exactly. its about the big picture and this GP showed exactly what we expected overall. Linear is KING. Race and hope to draw your sideboard hate.
Control players had a very good run at the GP, they played very well and proved that control is far from being dead in Modern but rather just the opposite, you just need to know how to play it.
I like top 8 as well although I'm not control player but at the very least it shows that interactive decks can do well in Modern which is nice to see. I'm happy about Jund performance as well which seems to do good although none of the decks top 8ed but overall I think it was good weekend for it as it was for all interactive decks in general.
I'm glad that many people are excited by the results. Skred Red was probably a million to one to win this GP, even after making the finals.
Although some of the same culprits were seen, some Controllish and Midrange strategies did pretty well. This is especially comforting to people who probably saw droves of noninteractive decks come through, but only a certain percentage make the top 8 (like BBD, who honestly could make the top 8 with a Ham Sandwich right now).
*I would like to put this out there for GBx lovers and lovers of a spicy brew - Vidianto Wijaya got 11-4 with basically Flayer Jund (only 2 copies), splashing 4 Madcap Experiment and 3 Platinum Emperion. The SB had also 3 Anger of the Gods, 2 Lost Legacy, 2 Blood Moon , Golgari Charm, Painful Truths, etc. Some spicy, spicy choices! I have a facebook link, but I think you would have to befriend my friend. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154925573597345&set=gm.1891249271104715&type=3&theater
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I am still working with gkouro on the idea of testing Preordain and I wanna encourage you all:
1. If you have a pet Tier 1 or Rier 2 Deck which ends up in our gauntlet - lend us your hand by playing it with us.
2. We need to decide a gauntlet. I had a few ideas based on the article that David made for modernnexus. The contenders for the gauntlet are:
Burn
Merfolk
Infect
Ad Nauseam
UW Control or Jeskai Control
Jund
Storm
Delver in some iteration
So the thinking is: There ist the argument that Preordain would help combo getting more consistent to get aggro in check while boosting combo just this little bit to help combo not take over. To prove this right or wrong we need to test combo decks (Storm/Ad Nauseam would most likely play Preordain over Sleight of Hand), but we also need to look into Jeskai Control and UW Control if it can boost their strength. Also there is an argument talking about Delver strategies wanting Preordain, but looking into this is optional.
I will look into searching stock lists for the decks and searching for more pilots than only gkouro and me and then I will make a schedule. To keep this transparent and maybe get people to help us (and since I have no blog whatsoever) I though I would start posting it here and maybe start making a thread sooner or later.
Greetings
King
post scriptum: Shoot me a message if you want to help us.
Public Mod Note
(ktkenshinx):
Warning for Modern banlist discussion outside of the official thread -ktkenshinx-
The testing is pointless in my opinion if you don't include Dredge. One of the biggest arguments for unbanning Preordain is being able to find answers in time and with Dredge finding your sideboard hate is very pivotal.
Public Mod Note
(ktkenshinx):
Warning for Modern banlist discussion outside of the official thread -ktkenshinx-
The testing is pointless in my opinion if you don't include Dredge. One of the biggest arguments for unbanning Preordain is being able to find answers in time and with Dredge finding your sideboard hate is very pivotal.
I want to test deck types rather than actual decks, but I am thinking about including Dredge anyways.
So the thinking is: There ist the argument that Preordain would help combo getting more consistent to get aggro in check while boosting combo just this little bit to help combo not take over. To prove this right or wrong we need to test combo decks (Storm/Ad Nauseam would most likely play Preordain over Sleight of Hand), but we also need to look into Jeskai Control and UW Control if it can boost their strength. Also there is an argument talking about Delver strategies wanting Preordain, but looking into this is optional.
I honestly don't know what I would cut from Delver to make room. Serum Visions works better for setting up Delver flips and Thought Scour does a better job accelerating out Tasigur/Angler. Most lists run the full 4 of each and are not looking to cut either. Gitaxian Probe is usually run as a 3 or 4-of in lists also running Young Pyromancer, but I don't know if YP lists would want to cut Probe for Preordain, because the upside for Probe (free casting cost, see if the coast is clear) outweighs a minor upgrade in selection. Lists not running YP may include Preordain, but those lists are usually more aligned with "grixis control" that runs a lower curve and 4 Delvers. Short answer: it probably won't affect Delver much.
Also, in addition to adding Dredge, Bant Eldrazi needs to be on that list. Both those decks are nightmare matchups for almost any URx Uxx deck. I do not feel Preordain does anything to make the matchup better in a statistically relevant way.
Public Mod Note
(ktkenshinx):
Warning for Modern banlist discussion outside of the official thread -ktkenshinx-
So the thinking is: There ist the argument that Preordain would help combo getting more consistent to get aggro in check while boosting combo just this little bit to help combo not take over. To prove this right or wrong we need to test combo decks (Storm/Ad Nauseam would most likely play Preordain over Sleight of Hand), but we also need to look into Jeskai Control and UW Control if it can boost their strength. Also there is an argument talking about Delver strategies wanting Preordain, but looking into this is optional.
I honestly don't know what I would cut from Delver to make room. Serum Visions works better for setting up Delver flips and Thought Scour does a better job accelerating out Tasigur/Angler. Most lists run the full 4 of each and are not looking to cut either. Gitaxian Probe is usually run as a 3 or 4-of in lists also running Young Pyromancer, but I don't know if YP lists would want to cut Probe for Preordain, because the upside for Probe (free casting cost, see if the coast is clear) outweighs a minor upgrade in selection. Lists not running YP may include Preordain, but those lists are usually more aligned with "grixis control" that runs a lower curve and 4 Delvers. Short answer: it probably won't affect Delver much.
Also, in addition to adding Dredge, Bant Eldrazi needs to be on that list. Both those decks are nightmare matchups for almost any URx Uxx deck. I do not feel Preordain does anything to make the matchup better in a statistically relevant way.
Since my main Delver deck is Counter-Cat I can only talk about that deck.
My current Cantrip set-up is: 4 Serum Visions, 1 Faithless Looting, 2 Sleight of Hands
I would basically change the set-up to the following: 4 Preordain, 3 Serum Visions, 1 Faithless Looting (making a cut else where).
The Looting my look odd, but it is basically a BS for the deck in the Mid to Lategame with Flashback.
Yes, Visions is better with Delver, but when your other creatures are Nacatl, Goyf and Mandrills and you want to find your MD silverbullets (like Simic/Boros Charm, Send to Sleep,...) Preordain is just way better at doing so.
So yeah, a Preordain would affect Counter Cat in a big way, since it would be especially the manabase more stable while being better at finding what you need.
I just want to add something: I had a ~55-45 match-up with Counter Cat vs Eldrazi in the Eldrazi Winter (played roughly 40 games vs them) since I was executing the tempo plan way better. Of course, it helps, when you have access to stuff like Send to Sleep and Deflecting Palm + Isochron Szepter ^^
I played a little bit with UR Midrange Delver and UR Prowess Delver (with Abbot back when he was spoilered). Both decks would like Preordain more than Visions and would probably run the full 8 cantrips (up to 12 if you run Probe). This way, you can go down to 16-17 lands without a real problem (especially since the UR Fastland exists now).
Greetings,
Kathal
Public Mod Note
(ktkenshinx):
Warning for Modern banlist discussion outside of the official thread -ktkenshinx-
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
We could add my new love as well, Suicide Bloo(of some iteration)!
I mean, this deck is real. It put up 3 copies in the GP Top 64! Preordain could literally help it. Plus I don't mind playing that at all.
Can't support U at all as simple as it is.
Yes, it might look great in that deck (finding relevant stuff) but both the colour restrictions (you cannot run a 5c Aggro deck without Dorks, trust me, I tried and failed horrible) and the anti deck synergy (Preordain is a tempo card which enables it's value usually the turn after it got played, while the deck is an aggro deck, which wants to have business all the time and not cantrip into cantrip into nothing (especially when you have to pay mana for it)).
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
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It still is a stretch. Back when I played Grixis control I ran a similar configuration and still had occasional mana problems.
Although I am happy to see control at the top tables... it doesn't necessarily mean control is a viable choice for tier 1 deck.
The issue with control has always been drawing the wrong half of your deck. Since alot of the answers in Modern are powerful but one sided - the viability of control often hinges on draws.
From what games I saw of the Grixis player... he drew exceptionally.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Yeah I would not run 22 lands in Grixis either. In UWR I run 24 with 3x Serum Visions and that seems adequate.
What happens if Dredge draws the wrong half of their deck tho? Just a bunch of Dredgers and no way to pitch them? Or Grishoalbrand? Or Twin for that matter? I had plenty of games where I drew every copy of Twin and like two Cryptics and just died. I played against a Scapeshift dude last friday who drew too many Mountains and scooped. Just part of Magic.
It's less likely to happen in other decks because they are proactive.
Even in twin, drawing two Splinter Twin was not terrible when you could put it on snapcaster or Clique.
The problem (from my experience) that variance happens far more when piloting control decks.
There is a reason most control decks have a proactive game-plan now (Nahiri, Jeskai Flash, Even Grixis).
You care about that variance alot less when you can turn 2 a tasigur.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
"Dredge is too strong" Only gets 2 decks in top 64 "Everyone got luck and drew their hate cards!"
"Control is Dead" Control takes top 3 at 2000+ GP "Complete Fluke! Literal Lottery Winners!"
"Grixis is awful" Grixis Control goes 14-0-1 in Swiss "Lucky draws! Variance! Still really awful!"
At some point you're going to need to admit to yourself that if you're not winning with a control deck, maybe you aren't as good at playing control as you thought.
My H/W list
Lol yep. To be fair Nahiri and Tasigur really helped two control archetypes. But I do love that the UWR list that won just said 'Nope' to win cons and straight up Cryptic'd people to death
Those two decks (Jeskai and Grixis) had a fantastic run. An excellent meta call, extremely skillful play, extremely speedy play (to avoid draws), and often on the positive side of matchups and variance. It was a shimmering and amazing performance of two players on really, really great days.
Then you look at the fact that out of more than 2,000 players, these were literally the only 2 decks of their kind that made Day 2 (and about half a dozen others that could be similarly grouped as URx reactive decks), and you have to stop and ask "why did nobody else playing anything like this do well?"
It could be that control decks are perfectly fine and totally viable competitive options, and that would be awesome! It could be that these guys had a super lucky run on a distinct meta call with decks that nobody expected or prepared for and dodged many or all of their worst matchups. Unfortunately, this puts us right back into the "wait and see" mentality to see if this was just a fluke or a positive upward trend for control. Hopefully it IS indicative of a positive trend, but given the top 100 archetypes... I'm not super optimistic.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I guess that is a completely fair interpretation as to why nobody else out of the 2000+ players did well with a control deck. Nobody else is good enough.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I guess that is a completely fair interpretation as to why nobody else out of the 2000+ players did well with a Dredge deck. Nobody else is good enough.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Yeah, that's why BBD was the only one to top 8. He's just better than everyone in the room, and also has a good history of playing Modern decks that get banned shortly after.
For more infos, read that post: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/762092-gp-dallas?comment=224
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
If you actually quoted my whole post, you would have gotten the comment about wishing and hoping this is a positive trend for the future and not some fluke. The numbers right now seem to line up as a fluke and the top 100 decks do not inspire confidence, but if this can be sustained and grow, I might actually have hope for this format.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
BBD is a spike. He knows when something is better than everything else. Just look how long the tournament scene took to show amulets power. Most decks that play game on a different axis take time to pick up in paper than they do on modo. If I really wanted to do better than I am currently I would play dredge or infect but I like playing fair decks too much although if there was an option for combo conttol in modern that was at least competitive I would jump on it in a heartbeat. For the closest thing to an interactive deck with the potential for free wins is blue moon so I will stick with that until something else comes along.
The statement "control players had a good run" seems to imply that control players as a whole did well. That's not exactly the same thing as two people playing control decks doing well. I'm thrilled that these two guys had such a great run with Jeskai and Grixis, but I would have LOVED to see more than just a couple of people in all of Day 2.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
decks playing:
none
I'm glad that many people are excited by the results. Skred Red was probably a million to one to win this GP, even after making the finals.
Although some of the same culprits were seen, some Controllish and Midrange strategies did pretty well. This is especially comforting to people who probably saw droves of noninteractive decks come through, but only a certain percentage make the top 8 (like BBD, who honestly could make the top 8 with a Ham Sandwich right now).
*I would like to put this out there for GBx lovers and lovers of a spicy brew - Vidianto Wijaya got 11-4 with basically Flayer Jund (only 2 copies), splashing 4 Madcap Experiment and 3 Platinum Emperion. The SB had also 3 Anger of the Gods, 2 Lost Legacy, 2 Blood Moon , Golgari Charm, Painful Truths, etc. Some spicy, spicy choices! I have a facebook link, but I think you would have to befriend my friend.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154925573597345&set=gm.1891249271104715&type=3&theater
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I plan on going to the Face to Face Open on Saturday but have no clue what the meta is like, so I just thought I'd see
It's boring and stupid as hell.
95% of the decks I face are s aggro deck who just throw everything in the face and win in 3 turns.
The meta is so toxic atm, I'm thinking more and more to leave modern and go standard...
The meta is like
- death shadow
- burn
- infect
- affinity
- dredge
- bant eldrazi
and you have sometimes, one or two control decks and some midrange, mainly abzan and jund.
And that's all.
You want to have consistent win and have a chance against the meta? go aggro or GTFO.
That's stupid, boring, I mean, non interactive decks are stronger than ever, they are everywhere and it makes other decks look likes piles of crap.
Sure you, can win with other "stategies", but if you want a strong, consistent, competitive deck, go aggro or get screwed.
The recent GP result showed some control deck in top 8.
I have watched most of matches at this gp, if control decks have won, it's only because they had huge topdecks.
Like the grixis dude with AV turn 1 in each games.
The rest of the pool is infect, affinity, and other linear aggro decks that win in 3 turns.
1. If you have a pet Tier 1 or Rier 2 Deck which ends up in our gauntlet - lend us your hand by playing it with us.
2. We need to decide a gauntlet. I had a few ideas based on the article that David made for modernnexus. The contenders for the gauntlet are:
So the thinking is: There ist the argument that Preordain would help combo getting more consistent to get aggro in check while boosting combo just this little bit to help combo not take over. To prove this right or wrong we need to test combo decks (Storm/Ad Nauseam would most likely play Preordain over Sleight of Hand), but we also need to look into Jeskai Control and UW Control if it can boost their strength. Also there is an argument talking about Delver strategies wanting Preordain, but looking into this is optional.
I will look into searching stock lists for the decks and searching for more pilots than only gkouro and me and then I will make a schedule. To keep this transparent and maybe get people to help us (and since I have no blog whatsoever) I though I would start posting it here and maybe start making a thread sooner or later.
Greetings
King
post scriptum: Shoot me a message if you want to help us.
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
I want to test deck types rather than actual decks, but I am thinking about including Dredge anyways.
Thanks for the call, pal.
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
I honestly don't know what I would cut from Delver to make room. Serum Visions works better for setting up Delver flips and Thought Scour does a better job accelerating out Tasigur/Angler. Most lists run the full 4 of each and are not looking to cut either. Gitaxian Probe is usually run as a 3 or 4-of in lists also running Young Pyromancer, but I don't know if YP lists would want to cut Probe for Preordain, because the upside for Probe (free casting cost, see if the coast is clear) outweighs a minor upgrade in selection. Lists not running YP may include Preordain, but those lists are usually more aligned with "grixis control" that runs a lower curve and 4 Delvers. Short answer: it probably won't affect Delver much.
Also, in addition to adding Dredge, Bant Eldrazi needs to be on that list. Both those decks are nightmare matchups for almost any URx Uxx deck. I do not feel Preordain does anything to make the matchup better in a statistically relevant way.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Since my main Delver deck is Counter-Cat I can only talk about that deck.
My current Cantrip set-up is: 4 Serum Visions, 1 Faithless Looting, 2 Sleight of Hands
I would basically change the set-up to the following: 4 Preordain, 3 Serum Visions, 1 Faithless Looting (making a cut else where).
The Looting my look odd, but it is basically a BS for the deck in the Mid to Lategame with Flashback.
Yes, Visions is better with Delver, but when your other creatures are Nacatl, Goyf and Mandrills and you want to find your MD silverbullets (like Simic/Boros Charm, Send to Sleep,...) Preordain is just way better at doing so.
So yeah, a Preordain would affect Counter Cat in a big way, since it would be especially the manabase more stable while being better at finding what you need.
I just want to add something: I had a ~55-45 match-up with Counter Cat vs Eldrazi in the Eldrazi Winter (played roughly 40 games vs them) since I was executing the tempo plan way better. Of course, it helps, when you have access to stuff like Send to Sleep and Deflecting Palm + Isochron Szepter ^^
I played a little bit with UR Midrange Delver and UR Prowess Delver (with Abbot back when he was spoilered). Both decks would like Preordain more than Visions and would probably run the full 8 cantrips (up to 12 if you run Probe). This way, you can go down to 16-17 lands without a real problem (especially since the UR Fastland exists now).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Greetings
King
UWRWorking on: Pyromancer AscensionUR
Can't support U at all as simple as it is.
Yes, it might look great in that deck (finding relevant stuff) but both the colour restrictions (you cannot run a 5c Aggro deck without Dorks, trust me, I tried and failed horrible) and the anti deck synergy (Preordain is a tempo card which enables it's value usually the turn after it got played, while the deck is an aggro deck, which wants to have business all the time and not cantrip into cantrip into nothing (especially when you have to pay mana for it)).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)