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It looks like the format has regressed a bit, Jund and Jeskai are the only nonlinear tier 1 decks. This is a recurring problem and I don't think there's anything that can be done with the banlist to fix it, unfortunately.
Other than perhaps being too linear, the format seems healthy and I firmly believe anyone calling for an Infect ban is way off-base.
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Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
Forums will get updated before the end of the day (CST) on Sunday.
It looks like the format has regressed a bit, Jund and Jeskai are the only nonlinear tier 1 decks. This is a recurring problem and I don't think there's anything that can be done with the banlist to fix it, unfortunately.
Other than perhaps being too linear, the format seems healthy and I firmly believe anyone calling for an Infect ban is way off-base.
This is also not the banlist thread, so don't discuss it here.
Metagame-wise, it remains to be seen if Dredge, Eldrazi, and Death's Shadow Zoo can maintain Tier 1 status. That's just where they have fallen in the lead-up to the big August GP weekend at the end of the month.
I don't think format is too linear I actually like it. At least this metagame turns off decks like GR Tron which I'm very fine with. The only think I'm not sure about is that we have 9 decks in tier 1 section at the moment which (at least to me) seems like a lot.
It reflects an open formaf leading up to a major triple GP weekend. The alternative is five decks in Tier 1, which does no justice whatsoever to MTGO results or to the open nature of the format.
It's actually not Snapcaster that overshadows Jace, but Goblin Dark-Dwellers. The main deck that played Jace was Grixis Control, and two things have happened recently:
1) Goblin Dark-Dwellers was printed
2) Ancestral Vision was unbanned
Of course the Grixis decks want to play AV, and while Jace kinda combos with AV by letting you discard late AVs to it, it's not as good as having GDD become super Mulldrifter by casting an AV in your graveyard.
Blue Moon is another deck that uses the GDD + AV combo instead of Jace.
Jace still has a place in the Grixis Goryo's Vengeance decks, since he can be reanimated with Vengeance (and dodge the EOT exile by transforming).
Does anyone feel Jace, Vryn's Prodigy will ever have a place in Modern, or does the prescense of Snapcaster nuke his playability?
What hurts his playability is being a tap-out 2 drop in decks that want to hold up mana for Remand or Mana Leak while also failing the Bolt test. He does not provide value the turn he comes down, nor does he take over a game without several turns of setup. As noted, he has a place in decks that want to draw/discard, like Goryo's Vengeance. But not much else wants him.
So does anyone know what would work better as a sideboard option between Rest in peace and Grafdigger's cage? I'm aiming towards the later right now, but the first does have a more immediate impact and would likely hose someone regardless if they kill the cage or not. Also, against dredge isn't it just as viable to let them dredge and then use Hallowed Moonlight when they try to recur their stuff?
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Unless you want to count the fact that the eldrazi menace shook up the format and made a lot of tier two decks relevant, but that doesnt directly explain it even. I dont think anything truly justifies its loss un the meta.
I think in GPLA i saw two tron decks (the blue versions) beat afinity. Chalice of the void maybe? Its just losing meta for some currently unexplainable reason.
So does anyone know what would work better as a sideboard option between Rest in peace and Grafdigger's cage? I'm aiming towards the later right now, but the first does have a more immediate impact and would likely hose someone regardless if they kill the cage or not. Also, against dredge isn't it just as viable to let them dredge and then use Hallowed Moonlight when they try to recur their stuff?
If your deck doesn`t need the GY, definately play Rest in peace! many decks (including dredge) play artifact removal, and they can just build up their GY, then destroy the cage and kill you. cage on the other hand has great applications against Coco/Chord/evolution decks, so it depends on your meta.
Against dredge, Hallowed Moonlight is to slow and only a one time effect. To shut this deck down you need something permanent and you need it fast, like a turn 0 leyline or a turn 2 rest in peace. otherwise they will just refuel and kill you!
Being a dredge player myself I think I see your point. Even a Relic of Progenitus is probably not going to be enough since they can literally race the cheapo effect and they can react to the activation for the sacrifice.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So far, the best card vs Dredge I found is either Yixlid Jailer (it just says nope to everything the Dredge player can do but hardcast stuff) and Surgical Extraction on the enablers.
Both Cage and Leylines have different problems, Relic is garbage vs them (or in general all one time nukes), as long as they know, how to play around it (if have yet to lose a game to a Relic/Crypt when I was playing Dredge). Leyline has the problem, that you HAVE TO have it in your opening seven, otherwise it helps exactly 0.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
So does anyone know what would work better as a sideboard option between Rest in peace and Grafdigger's cage? I'm aiming towards the later right now, but the first does have a more immediate impact and would likely hose someone regardless if they kill the cage or not. Also, against dredge isn't it just as viable to let them dredge and then use Hallowed Moonlight when they try to recur their stuff?
If your deck doesn`t need the GY, definately play Rest in peace! many decks (including dredge) play artifact removal, and they can just build up their GY, then destroy the cage and kill you. cage on the other hand has great applications against Coco/Chord/evolution decks, so it depends on your meta.
Against dredge, Hallowed Moonlight is to slow and only a one time effect. To shut this deck down you need something permanent and you need it fast, like a turn 0 leyline or a turn 2 rest in peace. otherwise they will just refuel and kill you!
Anger nukes every creature they could play save for sufficiently large Golgari Grave-Trolls, and Greater Gargadons in Gargadon-Bridge variants.
I don't think it's as hot against the Gargadon-Bridge build since you could just end up sweeping Bridge tokens when the Dredge pilot decides to throw all their creatures into the grave in response (assuming Gargadon is suspended), and if any of your creatures die to Anger they'll be exiled instead which means they get to keep their Bridge(s).
But still it whacks the meat of the deck. Flaying Tendrils almost gets there but whiffing on Amalgam surely blows.
Mind you I'm just theorycrafting here. Some mix of AotG and gravehate pieces seems an ok start in Red-inclusive decks, Anger's upside is that it can push Dredge around but still has game against decks that actually play Magic.
As a Jund player I'm looking at some kind of mix of md Ooze and Kalitas and Grafdigger's Cage along with Anger of the Gods from sb. There are enough hate to fight it but you need to draw multiple pieces most of the time since they can still win through it or have removal for it.
I don't know who again, but a Jund player was quoted to have played Ooze on turn 2 for two games in a row and still lost against dredge. I think Kalitas 2x Main and multiple Angers must do it.
As a Jund player I'm looking at some kind of mix of md Ooze and Kalitas and Grafdigger's Cage along with Anger of the Gods from sb. There are enough hate to fight it but you need to draw multiple pieces most of the time since they can still win through it or have removal for it.
I don't know who again, but a Jund player was quoted to have played Ooze on turn 2 for two games in a row and still lost against dredge. I think Kalitas 2x Main and multiple Angers must do it.
Ooze can be too slow and it also will most of the time nut if they have slower start it can do a lot. Kalitas on his own also won't be enough by being too slow but with the help of other cards you can do it.
Btw: I watched a game of Jund against Dredge at the SCG Open this weekend and even turn 0 Leyline of the Void wasn't enough. That's why I'm saying you need (and that doesn't matter which deck you play unless you can race it) more pieces of hate.
in other words it only encourages sideboard lottery in a game with enough of that already.
I don't know who again, but a Jund player was quoted to have played Ooze on turn 2 for two games in a row and still lost against dredge. I think Kalitas 2x Main and multiple Angers must do it.
Played this matchup tonight against a Gargadon/Bridge variant. I was on the draw with pain free mana and Anger was too slow. I hit something like 3 Amalgam's 3 Bloodghasts, and 2 Narcomeaba's with my Anger and just died to Conflagarate when they untapped. T2 Ooze can work, but it depends on their draw.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
It looks like the format has regressed a bit, Jund and Jeskai are the only nonlinear tier 1 decks. This is a recurring problem and I don't think there's anything that can be done with the banlist to fix it, unfortunately.
Other than perhaps being too linear, the format seems healthy and I firmly believe anyone calling for an Infect ban is way off-base.
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
This is also not the banlist thread, so don't discuss it here.
Metagame-wise, it remains to be seen if Dredge, Eldrazi, and Death's Shadow Zoo can maintain Tier 1 status. That's just where they have fallen in the lead-up to the big August GP weekend at the end of the month.
Btw, does "Through the Breach" refer to RG Valakut?
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
It's the Breach/Titan/Nahiri/Valakut deck that does not run any Shifts.
It reflects an open formaf leading up to a major triple GP weekend. The alternative is five decks in Tier 1, which does no justice whatsoever to MTGO results or to the open nature of the format.
1) Goblin Dark-Dwellers was printed
2) Ancestral Vision was unbanned
Of course the Grixis decks want to play AV, and while Jace kinda combos with AV by letting you discard late AVs to it, it's not as good as having GDD become super Mulldrifter by casting an AV in your graveyard.
Blue Moon is another deck that uses the GDD + AV combo instead of Jace.
Jace still has a place in the Grixis Goryo's Vengeance decks, since he can be reanimated with Vengeance (and dodge the EOT exile by transforming).
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
What hurts his playability is being a tap-out 2 drop in decks that want to hold up mana for Remand or Mana Leak while also failing the Bolt test. He does not provide value the turn he comes down, nor does he take over a game without several turns of setup. As noted, he has a place in decks that want to draw/discard, like Goryo's Vengeance. But not much else wants him.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think in GPLA i saw two tron decks (the blue versions) beat afinity. Chalice of the void maybe? Its just losing meta for some currently unexplainable reason.
Being a dredge player myself I think I see your point. Even a Relic of Progenitus is probably not going to be enough since they can literally race the cheapo effect and they can react to the activation for the sacrifice.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Both Cage and Leylines have different problems, Relic is garbage vs them (or in general all one time nukes), as long as they know, how to play around it (if have yet to lose a game to a Relic/Crypt when I was playing Dredge). Leyline has the problem, that you HAVE TO have it in your opening seven, otherwise it helps exactly 0.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Is multiple angers also good vs dredge?
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I don't think it's as hot against the Gargadon-Bridge build since you could just end up sweeping Bridge tokens when the Dredge pilot decides to throw all their creatures into the grave in response (assuming Gargadon is suspended), and if any of your creatures die to Anger they'll be exiled instead which means they get to keep their Bridge(s).
But still it whacks the meat of the deck. Flaying Tendrils almost gets there but whiffing on Amalgam surely blows.
Mind you I'm just theorycrafting here. Some mix of AotG and gravehate pieces seems an ok start in Red-inclusive decks, Anger's upside is that it can push Dredge around but still has game against decks that actually play Magic.
I don't know who again, but a Jund player was quoted to have played Ooze on turn 2 for two games in a row and still lost against dredge. I think Kalitas 2x Main and multiple Angers must do it.
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678I used to hear about it a lot but now I never hear about it doing well
Deck falls hard to artifact hate and fast linear strategies, both of which are everywhere.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
does lantern control just suffer when people prepare for affinity then, since it can be affected by a lot of the same hate?
decks playing:
none
Played this matchup tonight against a Gargadon/Bridge variant. I was on the draw with pain free mana and Anger was too slow. I hit something like 3 Amalgam's 3 Bloodghasts, and 2 Narcomeaba's with my Anger and just died to Conflagarate when they untapped. T2 Ooze can work, but it depends on their draw.
11 linear aggro decks and 1 each of RG Valakut, GR Tron, Bant Eldrazi, and Naya CoCo.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Not representative of anything important, especially given the Open meta from last week. GP are all that matter this month.
Snapshot of a bunch of people who have been practicing more standard than they have modern for the last month.
oh god
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy