Sorry. It's just I can imagine the impending Ban Announcement if the archetype, Combo took up 6 of the top 8 spots. The next ban announcement would be a sad day for Magic (or a happy day for those who want Combo eliminated completely from Magic).
Fair enough. I quite like the current modern metagame as it stands. More bannings would be quite sad.
What do you like in particular about this meta?
It's sad that people likes to lose from a dumb infect deck with almost none interaction instead to a real deck like pod or to a infinite combo like twin instead of a well played storm deck or to a all in burn deck instead to a tempo deck like delver.
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
Splinter Twin just happens to wreck all non-interactive deck who just want to do their own thing. And that also includes decks like GR Tron who would like play against Junk all day.
That's why Twin is always a thing when BG/x is a thing. Despite the matchup between both decks being in BG/x favor.
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
I agree with Lord Seth. Infect is combo-aggro because it's looking to put together a specific hand that one-shots someone along with some protection for it, but it still uses the combat phase and turning creatures sideways. A lot of times it turns into a beat-down deck when Plan A is disrupted.
That being said, I enjoy watching Modern more than Legacy, and my rather-large playgroup feels the same way. We all wish SCG would stream some Modern matches weekly--even if it's just a turbo-speed version of the final matches of their Sunday Premiere IQs. Legacy is painful to watch (and play).
All this talk about the meta is a bit off topic (since it belongs in the meta thread), but the only thing I see wrong with this healthy meta is the weakness/absence of control decks. Even UWR is having a tough time keeping up with the speed of the format. Control needs a few more toys, but I don't banning more cards is the answer. Unbannings might work, but the best friend of this format will be the new two-block, two-set release schedule. They said they might be able to push power level a bit (both in reprints and new cards).
Sorry. It's just I can imagine the impending Ban Announcement if the archetype, Combo took up 6 of the top 8 spots. The next ban announcement would be a sad day for Magic (or a happy day for those who want Combo eliminated completely from Magic).
Fair enough. I quite like the current modern metagame as it stands. More bannings would be quite sad.
What do you like in particular about this meta?
It's sad that people likes to lose from a dumb infect deck with almost none interaction instead to a real deck like pod or to a infinite combo like twin instead of a well played storm deck or to a all in burn deck instead to a tempo deck like delver.
- L
This meta is not perfect, but its better then the Delver/Pod one previous to the announcement. The Delver/Pod meta was just boring. I am not a fan of playing the same deck(s) all day at an event. At least in this meta you will see more decks in a day. That being said, its starting to look like its going to devolve into Junk/Burn if it keeps going this way.
Sweet new metagame! Aggro, Aggro, Aggro, Twin, Twin, Aggro, Aggro, did I miss something?
Yeah, infect isn't aggro.
I guess Wizards calls it Combo. As a Combo player, I should be enthused. Burn can also be Combo where 7 spells X 3 damage does lethal.
Infect is a tough one to classify. I call it aggro-combo myself.
I can get behind that. I have to admit that some Combo players do in fact like playing Infect. I myself don't really like it too much, but I like the "combo" feel of Bogles. I guess Infect is more of a "protect the queen" strategy, but can end up killing someone as early as turn 2 or 3.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Sweet new metagame! Aggro, Aggro, Aggro, Twin, Twin, Aggro, Aggro, did I miss something?
Yeah, infect isn't aggro.
I guess Wizards calls it Combo. As a Combo player, I should be enthused. Burn can also be Combo where 7 spells X 3 damage does lethal.
Infect is a tough one to classify. I call it aggro-combo myself.
I can get behind that. I have to admit that some Combo players do in fact like playing Infect. I myself don't really like it too much, but I like the "combo" feel of Bogles. I guess Infect is more of a "protect the queen" strategy, but can end up killing someone as early as turn 2 or 3.
Sweet new metagame! Aggro, Aggro, Aggro, Twin, Twin, Aggro, Aggro, did I miss something?
I think hyper aggro decks should not be grouped into the same category as non-hyper aggro.
Sorry, I still think of the original 3 archetypes, Combo, Control, and Aggro. Somewhere along the road, Midrange, Tempo, and hybrids of each of the original archetypes happened. I just hope that while Combo is getting phased out, along with Control, that the "new archetypes" don't become hyper-Aggro, mid-Aggro, slow-Aggro, and 5 different flavors of Midrange that honestly are all the same to me. I could honestly care less about Midrange since I actually dislike it with a passion. I care only slightly more about Aggro, but it gets old quickly.
People talk about playing Delver and Pod all day long. I would rather metagame for that than 6 different flavors of Aggro. Sure, it has more "variety," but to me, it's all really just decks that hope their opponent stumbles or they draw the nut and get the kill before the opponent stabilizes.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Sweet new metagame! Aggro, Aggro, Aggro, Twin, Twin, Aggro, Aggro, did I miss something?
Yeah, infect isn't aggro.
Yeah it is. It is aggro as much as Burn is, and Burn is solidly aggro. Unless if it has a specific combo, it is just synergy, not a Combo deck.
It's nothing like Burn. Please name me an aggro deck that's soft to common combo haters like Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and etc. or has to aggressively mull unless it opens up with one of about 12 specific pieces. I agree that it's not as clear cut as something like Ad Nauseam but it's much closer to the that than it is to Affinity, Burn, Zoo and etc. People are under the impression that you're looking to clock your opponent asap with infect, and although it's very possible to kill quickly it also doesn't have much of a problem being patient, waiting for a critical mass of pieces to accumulate before going in for the kill.
Sorry. It's just I can imagine the impending Ban Announcement if the archetype, Combo took up 6 of the top 8 spots. The next ban announcement would be a sad day for Magic (or a happy day for those who want Combo eliminated completely from Magic).
Fair enough. I quite like the current modern metagame as it stands. More bannings would be quite sad.
What do you like in particular about this meta?
It's sad that people likes to lose from a dumb infect deck with almost none interaction instead to a real deck like pod or to a infinite combo like twin instead of a well played storm deck or to a all in burn deck instead to a tempo deck like delver.
Sweet new metagame! Aggro, Aggro, Aggro, Twin, Twin, Aggro, Aggro, did I miss something?
Yeah, infect isn't aggro.
Yeah it is. It is aggro as much as Burn is, and Burn is solidly aggro. Unless if it has a specific combo, it is just synergy, not a Combo deck.
It's nothing like Burn. Please name me an aggro deck that's soft to common combo haters like Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and etc. or has to aggressively mull unless it opens up with one of about 12 specific pieces. I agree that it's not as clear cut as something like Ad Nauseam but it's much closer to the that than it is to Affinity, Burn, Zoo and etc. People are under the impression that you're looking to clock your opponent asap with infect, and although it's very possible to kill quickly it also doesn't have much of a problem being patient, waiting for a critical mass of pieces to accumulate before going in for the kill.
Bogles folds to a single discard spell and that is also aggro. In my opinion, if it doesn't have a specific combo, it is just an easily disrupted synergy. Combos by definition have to have a combo in them. That is the entire point.
Sweet new metagame! Aggro, Aggro, Aggro, Twin, Twin, Aggro, Aggro, did I miss something?
Yeah, infect isn't aggro.
Yeah it is. It is aggro as much as Burn is, and Burn is solidly aggro. Unless if it has a specific combo, it is just synergy, not a Combo deck.
It's nothing like Burn. Please name me an aggro deck that's soft to common combo haters like Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and etc. or has to aggressively mull unless it opens up with one of about 12 specific pieces. I agree that it's not as clear cut as something like Ad Nauseam but it's much closer to the that than it is to Affinity, Burn, Zoo and etc. People are under the impression that you're looking to clock your opponent asap with infect, and although it's very possible to kill quickly it also doesn't have much of a problem being patient, waiting for a critical mass of pieces to accumulate before going in for the kill.
Bogles folds to a single discard spell and that is also aggro. In my opinion, if it doesn't have a specific combo, it is just an easily disrupted synergy. Combos by definition have to have a combo in them. That is the entire point.
This. Combo is not determined by being vulnerable to thoughtseize or not (so is control!) it is more about the type of interactions in a deck.
Both infect and bogles are aggro, perhaps call it all-in aggro if you desire. A critical mass of pieces is also a fallacy, since burn needs a critical mass of pieces to breach a control player too.
the problem is with the definition of combo, depending on the writer/speaker it can be:
- sinergy like infect or UW Heroic or 8rack with discards and waste not
- infinite combo/win on the spot combo like scapeshift or twin
- every linear strategy that doesn't want/need to interact with the opponent like Burn
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
It's nothing like Burn. Please name me an aggro deck that's soft to common combo haters like Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and etc. or has to aggressively mull unless it opens up with one of about 12 specific pieces. I agree that it's not as clear cut as something like Ad Nauseam but it's much closer to the that than it is to Affinity, Burn, Zoo and etc. People are under the impression that you're looking to clock your opponent asap with infect, and although it's very possible to kill quickly it also doesn't have much of a problem being patient, waiting for a critical mass of pieces to accumulate before going in for the kill.
I don't know if you play Standard, but UW Heroic is very much the Infect deck of that format - get a cheap creature, pump it up (in this case with +1/+1 counters), then beat face. It can win very quickly if left unchecked, but can also be patient and grind games out if given the chance. It's pretty much the exact same gameplan, and has the exact same problems (soft to discard, has to aggresively mulligan to get the perfect balance of creatures, pumps and land). It's no surprise Tom Ross plays UW Heroic in Standard!
The point of this is, UW Heroic is very much an aggro deck. Yes, it's one that relies on a specific synergy much more than something like RDW or even Abzan Aggro, but it's still an aggro deck.
I think UW Heroic is more comparable to Bogles/Auras than Infect, honestly.
I know many of the players from my LGS, including many that were knocked out in the final win-and-in round.
1st place - UR Delver - Calvin Kim
Ad Nauseum - Chad Derk
Burn - Seung Han
Junk Midrange - Chang Han
Tokens -
Abzan -
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
it is listed as the storm deck as my friend put ad storn on the decklist. They also made a mistake on the gifts decklist listing polluted delta as polluted dead
What do you like in particular about this meta?
It's sad that people likes to lose from a dumb infect deck with almost none interaction instead to a real deck like pod or to a infinite combo like twin instead of a well played storm deck or to a all in burn deck instead to a tempo deck like delver.
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
That's why Twin is always a thing when BG/x is a thing. Despite the matchup between both decks being in BG/x favor.
Yeah it is. It is aggro as much as Burn is, and Burn is solidly aggro. Unless if it has a specific combo, it is just synergy, not a Combo deck.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
That being said, I enjoy watching Modern more than Legacy, and my rather-large playgroup feels the same way. We all wish SCG would stream some Modern matches weekly--even if it's just a turbo-speed version of the final matches of their Sunday Premiere IQs. Legacy is painful to watch (and play).
All this talk about the meta is a bit off topic (since it belongs in the meta thread), but the only thing I see wrong with this healthy meta is the weakness/absence of control decks. Even UWR is having a tough time keeping up with the speed of the format. Control needs a few more toys, but I don't banning more cards is the answer. Unbannings might work, but the best friend of this format will be the new two-block, two-set release schedule. They said they might be able to push power level a bit (both in reprints and new cards).
This meta is not perfect, but its better then the Delver/Pod one previous to the announcement. The Delver/Pod meta was just boring. I am not a fan of playing the same deck(s) all day at an event. At least in this meta you will see more decks in a day. That being said, its starting to look like its going to devolve into Junk/Burn if it keeps going this way.
I can get behind that. I have to admit that some Combo players do in fact like playing Infect. I myself don't really like it too much, but I like the "combo" feel of Bogles. I guess Infect is more of a "protect the queen" strategy, but can end up killing someone as early as turn 2 or 3.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I can get behind that. I have to admit that some Combo players do in fact like playing Infect. I myself don't really like it too much, but I like the "combo" feel of Bogles. I guess Infect is more of a "protect the queen" strategy, but can end up killing someone as early as turn 2 or 3.
Sorry, I still think of the original 3 archetypes, Combo, Control, and Aggro. Somewhere along the road, Midrange, Tempo, and hybrids of each of the original archetypes happened. I just hope that while Combo is getting phased out, along with Control, that the "new archetypes" don't become hyper-Aggro, mid-Aggro, slow-Aggro, and 5 different flavors of Midrange that honestly are all the same to me. I could honestly care less about Midrange since I actually dislike it with a passion. I care only slightly more about Aggro, but it gets old quickly.
People talk about playing Delver and Pod all day long. I would rather metagame for that than 6 different flavors of Aggro. Sure, it has more "variety," but to me, it's all really just decks that hope their opponent stumbles or they draw the nut and get the kill before the opponent stabilizes.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)It's nothing like Burn. Please name me an aggro deck that's soft to common combo haters like Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and etc. or has to aggressively mull unless it opens up with one of about 12 specific pieces. I agree that it's not as clear cut as something like Ad Nauseam but it's much closer to the that than it is to Affinity, Burn, Zoo and etc. People are under the impression that you're looking to clock your opponent asap with infect, and although it's very possible to kill quickly it also doesn't have much of a problem being patient, waiting for a critical mass of pieces to accumulate before going in for the kill.
I just enjoy the format with optimism in general.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Bogles folds to a single discard spell and that is also aggro. In my opinion, if it doesn't have a specific combo, it is just an easily disrupted synergy. Combos by definition have to have a combo in them. That is the entire point.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
This. Combo is not determined by being vulnerable to thoughtseize or not (so is control!) it is more about the type of interactions in a deck.
Both infect and bogles are aggro, perhaps call it all-in aggro if you desire. A critical mass of pieces is also a fallacy, since burn needs a critical mass of pieces to breach a control player too.
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678"The deck’s primary goal is to play as a combo deck that assembles a 1/1, two +4/+4 effects between Groundswell and Might of Old Krosa, and something that gives it another +1 power boost, which is either Ranger's Guile, Noble Hierarch, Pendelhaven, or sometimes Mutagenic Growth for an “overkill.”"
" Infect plays like a combo deck oftentimes, and Pact of Negation is a free counterspell when you're killing them that turn."
- sinergy like infect or UW Heroic or 8rack with discards and waste not
- infinite combo/win on the spot combo like scapeshift or twin
- every linear strategy that doesn't want/need to interact with the opponent like Burn
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
On my tombstone, please write "Now his body fuels the Treasure Cruise"
Or you could Kommand him back...
Check out my Youtube Page for online Magic Content!
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Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
ad nausium
2x abzan
burn
tokens
ur delver
Two of the top 8 matches did not play it out so not sure what the missing decks are
1st place - UR Delver - Calvin Kim
Ad Nauseum - Chad Derk
Burn - Seung Han
Junk Midrange - Chang Han
Tokens -
Abzan -
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t[C1]=28&start_date=2015-02-22&end_date=2015-02-22&event_ID=45&city=Los Angeles&state=CA&t_num=1&limit=8&start_num=8&start_num=0&limit=8
"Storm" is "Ad Nauseam". SCG messed up the classification.