I just feel that these two decks are different enough to warrant discussing the merits of both without referring the the default of BGx.
Oh, certainly. There's definitely pros/cons to playing one over the other. I think you'll find a lot of that discussion in the subforums dedicated to the deck(s). In a general discussion of the meta or tournament results though, it just makes more sense to lump them into one category in the same way that people lump Splinter Twin decks into the same category, whether they be RUG Twin, UR, Twin, or UWR Twin.
I did notice the one guy running Voice of Resurgence in Junk. I can only assume that was an attempt to next-level the mirror match since Voice is so strong against Liliana. He may also have been anticipating an uptick in UWR decks that tend to play on their opponents' turns. I doubt it was a budget choice since he had the Goyfs. I also saw a few lists running less than 4 Bobs, which seems wrong. It makes sense to cut Bob when Delver is maindecking multiple Forked Bolts and tons of fast damage, but prior to Treasure Cruise, Bob was an automatic 4-of across the board. Maybe people will make a permanent move away from Bob, but I think they'll be punished for it, especially in the mirror. Plus, we've got Rhino now to ease the life loss. Rhino is so ridiculously good in that deck that if they unbanned BBE right now, I'm not sure that I'd go back to Jund over Junk. He beats BBE in combat and doesn't die to Lightning Bolt. Lingering Souls also dominates the mirror while helping with the Affinity matchup, and white in general offers better sideboard options than the red splash.
The one big drawback to Bob is his terrible interaction with Murderous Cut and Tasigur, both of which are very powerful options.
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Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
If BBE ever got unbanned. Red offers a lot to the b/g/x decks as well. Bonfire is a major trump in the mirror. Also slaughter games is the most effective cranial effect. And finally bolt is still the best removal spell in this format.
We got 160 players for Modern SCG Indy. Standard only had 147. 160 is about average for expected attendance relative to last year's trends, so that's yet another SCG event that doesn't seem to have been affected by the B&R announcement (at least, from an attendance perspective).
If BBE ever got unbanned. Red offers a lot to the b/g/x decks as well. Bonfire is a major trump in the mirror. Also slaughter games is the most effective cranial effect. And finally bolt is still the best removal spell in this format.
Bonfire's anti-synergy with Bloodbraid Elf indicates to me it would be unlikely to see play in a Jund list running BBE.
The one big drawback to Bob is his terrible interaction with Murderous Cut and Tasigur, both of which are very powerful options.
That's actually the main thing that bothers me. That being said though I wouldn't be surprised though if lists will start to incorporate Tasigur along with 4 bobs. You won't run a playset of Tasigur anyway.
We got 160 players for Modern SCG Indy. Standard only had 147. 160 is about average for expected attendance relative to last year's trends, so that's yet another SCG event that doesn't seem to have been affected by the B&R announcement (at least, from an attendance perspective).
That's great.
Hopefully that takes the wind out of the sails of the people who were doomsaying and said that Wizards killed Modern because they banned a "pillar" of the format or anything in that direction.
Most can live with the update and will continue playing
So does anyone know how the Indy Modern tourny went? SCG's "coverage" of the event has literally nothing posted or mentioned.
They cut to top 8 maybe an hour ago. I dropped R8 after going 3-4. There is a pretty sweet BR list that I'm fairly certain made the top 8 though. It was running things like Lavaclaw reach, blightning, IoK/TS, LoTV, the rack, waste not, etc.
From what I saw, the field had a substantial amount of small zoo (a couple large zoo as well), RG Tron, and UWR control. There weren't nearly as many junk lists as I was expecting, but certainly a couple.
We got 160 players for Modern SCG Indy. Standard only had 147. 160 is about average for expected attendance relative to last year's trends, so that's yet another SCG event that doesn't seem to have been affected by the B&R announcement (at least, from an attendance perspective).
Are you sure about that? 147 for Standard doesn't sound right. Did you mean Legacy or did Modern have more of a turn out than Standard?
We got 160 players for Modern SCG Indy. Standard only had 147. 160 is about average for expected attendance relative to last year's trends, so that's yet another SCG event that doesn't seem to have been affected by the B&R announcement (at least, from an attendance perspective).
Are you sure about that? 147 for Standard doesn't sound right. Did you mean Legacy or did Modern have more of a turn out than Standard?
Modern has 160. Standard has 147.
Also, it looks like at least one player is on Amulet in the T8: Stephen Speck. He's back on his deck after missing out at GP Omaha and drew into the T8.
EDIT: Lists to come but Speck takes it. Amulet wins!
This is what I'd expect in the sense that there's a lot of aggro as those decks are always a solid choice during format shake ups. That said, this is a lot more diverse than I ever would have guessed it'd be. Elves? Two Dredgevine decks? Bant?! I wonder if this is going to last, or if Indiana is just in some sort of Magic Bermuda triangle.
None of those top 8 decks surprise me, particularly Amulet winning the whole thing. That 9-16 is surprising though, Bant especially but it's always good to see Lotus Cobra make a showing.
None of those top 8 decks surprise me, particularly Amulet winning the whole thing. That 9-16 is surprising though, Bant especially but it's always good to see Lotus Cobra make a showing.
Zero Junk in the T8 AND T16 is very surprising. 1-2 wouldn't have shocked me. But 0? That's surprising.
None of those top 8 decks surprise me, particularly Amulet winning the whole thing. That 9-16 is surprising though, Bant especially but it's always good to see Lotus Cobra make a showing.
Zero Junk in the T8 AND T16 is very surprising. 1-2 wouldn't have shocked me. But 0? That's surprising.
Maybe people couldn't afford Goyf, Bob, and LotV and gave up on the deck...
None of those top 8 decks surprise me, particularly Amulet winning the whole thing. That 9-16 is surprising though, Bant especially but it's always good to see Lotus Cobra make a showing.
Zero Junk in the T8 AND T16 is very surprising. 1-2 wouldn't have shocked me. But 0? That's surprising.
Maybe people couldn't afford Goyf, Bob, and LotV and gave up on the deck...
That seems like an incredibly improbable explanation, especially given that there were 3 Junk decks and 1 Jund deck in the T8/T16 last week at the previous SCG.
None of those top 8 decks surprise me, particularly Amulet winning the whole thing. That 9-16 is surprising though, Bant especially but it's always good to see Lotus Cobra make a showing.
Zero Junk in the T8 AND T16 is very surprising. 1-2 wouldn't have shocked me. But 0? That's surprising.
Maybe people couldn't afford Goyf, Bob, and LotV and gave up on the deck...
Yeah, 15% of the top decks last week and all of a sudden people cant afford those 3 cards. Not likely. There was plenty of Goyf, Bob and LotV in Legacy which was played on Saturday.
Of course it would be nice to know all the decks played and in what numbers before we discount anything.
Guess this should quiet down the 15% crowd that was already talking of a ban of Junk.
Or, with three burn decks in the top 16, it was effectively hated out. Many people were talking about going back to Bob, and in a field of burn, that is suicide.
None of those top 8 decks surprise me, particularly Amulet winning the whole thing. That 9-16 is surprising though, Bant especially but it's always good to see Lotus Cobra make a showing.
Zero Junk in the T8 AND T16 is very surprising. 1-2 wouldn't have shocked me. But 0? That's surprising.
I noticed that but didn't say anything. None of those top 8 decks seem out of place, but no Junk is out of place, particularly in the top 16. Maybe the deck just hasn't been tuned properly yet. We know the shell is still solid.
Maybe it's a side-effect due to lack of Pod in the meta. Pod had a huge influence on the rest of the meta during its time and now Junk isn't as good because of all the decks around now that Pod used to hate out.
Or, with three burn decks in the top 16, it was effectively hated out. Many people were talking about going back to Bob, and in a field of burn, that is suicide.
Yeah, this is quite plausible. That top sixteen looks anything but friendly for Junk. I suspect a lot of people were expecting BGx to make a big showing and showed up prepared.
Hey guys, I just got home from Indy. I was the guy in 11th with the Bant Conscription deck. In the last round some of the x-1's didn't want to ID, so one 6-2 made Top 8, but unfortunately my pretty good breakers were not quite good enough.
The field at large had a seemingly ENORMOUS amount of Affinity in it. I played against Affinity 4 times out of 8 rounds (3 in the early rounds including against one of the guys who Top 8'd with it, and once in the late rounds). A few other players I talked to remarked about the relative lack of Junk decks, I believe only two Junk decks were spotted near the top tables. Looking around at the top tables, I didn't see any Scapeshift players at all and only saw one Tron deck -- the lack of pyroclasms obviously was nice for me and for the guy who was tearing it up with Elves but came up just short.
The most interesting rogue deck I saw was in Round 8, a guy was playing a Soul Sisters deck with Return to the Ranks and had Viscera Seers and Blood Artists. He told me that Sam Black had written about it and he and his buddy had adjusted it from that list, iirc.
BTW, I was amazed at how many people had to read Sovereigns of Lost Alara. Like I think all day maybe only one guy didn't pick it up and stare at it. I had to fetch the English copy of Conscription all day instead of my foreign one just to avoid a million calls for oracle text. Both these cards were played in what was arguably the best deck in Standard only 4 years ago, so I have to surmise there are a lot of people playing Modern who didn't play in ALA/ZEN standard, which says something about the game's growth during that span.
Hey guys, I just got home from Indy. I was the guy in 11th with the Bant Conscription deck. In the last round some of the x-1's didn't want to ID, so one 6-2 made Top 8, but unfortunately my pretty good breakers were not quite good enough.
The field at large had a seemingly ENORMOUS amount of Affinity in it. I played against Affinity 4 times out of 8 rounds (3 in the early rounds including against one of the guys who Top 8'd with it, and once in the late rounds). A few other players I talked to remarked about the relative lack of Junk decks, I believe only two Junk decks were spotted near the top tables. Looking around at the top tables, I didn't see any Scapeshift players at all and only saw one Tron deck -- the lack of pyroclasms obviously was nice for me and for the guy who was tearing it up with Elves but came up just short.
The most interesting rogue deck I saw was in Round 8, a guy was playing a Soul Sisters deck with Return to the Ranks and had Viscera Seers and Blood Artists. He told me that Sam Black had written about it and he and his buddy had adjusted it from that list, iirc.
BTW, I was amazed at how many people had to read Sovereigns of Lost Alara. Like I think all day maybe only one guy didn't pick it up and stare at it. I had to fetch the English copy of Conscription all day instead of my foreign one just to avoid a million calls for oracle text. Both these cards were played in what was arguably the best deck in Standard only 4 years ago, so I have to surmise there are a lot of people playing Modern who didn't play in ALA/ZEN standard, which says something about the game's growth during that span.
Congratulations on the finish, especially with such a cool rogue deck! Those observations about the metagame are pretty interesting. Do you think there may have been more Junk early on that got weeded out by the large amounts of Affinity, or did it seem like most people showed up to beat it rather than play it?
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Oh, certainly. There's definitely pros/cons to playing one over the other. I think you'll find a lot of that discussion in the subforums dedicated to the deck(s). In a general discussion of the meta or tournament results though, it just makes more sense to lump them into one category in the same way that people lump Splinter Twin decks into the same category, whether they be RUG Twin, UR, Twin, or UWR Twin.
I did notice the one guy running Voice of Resurgence in Junk. I can only assume that was an attempt to next-level the mirror match since Voice is so strong against Liliana. He may also have been anticipating an uptick in UWR decks that tend to play on their opponents' turns. I doubt it was a budget choice since he had the Goyfs. I also saw a few lists running less than 4 Bobs, which seems wrong. It makes sense to cut Bob when Delver is maindecking multiple Forked Bolts and tons of fast damage, but prior to Treasure Cruise, Bob was an automatic 4-of across the board. Maybe people will make a permanent move away from Bob, but I think they'll be punished for it, especially in the mirror. Plus, we've got Rhino now to ease the life loss. Rhino is so ridiculously good in that deck that if they unbanned BBE right now, I'm not sure that I'd go back to Jund over Junk. He beats BBE in combat and doesn't die to Lightning Bolt. Lingering Souls also dominates the mirror while helping with the Affinity matchup, and white in general offers better sideboard options than the red splash.
The one big drawback to Bob is his terrible interaction with Murderous Cut and Tasigur, both of which are very powerful options.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
That's actually the main thing that bothers me. That being said though I wouldn't be surprised though if lists will start to incorporate Tasigur along with 4 bobs. You won't run a playset of Tasigur anyway.
That's great.
Hopefully that takes the wind out of the sails of the people who were doomsaying and said that Wizards killed Modern because they banned a "pillar" of the format or anything in that direction.
Most can live with the update and will continue playing
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
They cut to top 8 maybe an hour ago. I dropped R8 after going 3-4. There is a pretty sweet BR list that I'm fairly certain made the top 8 though. It was running things like Lavaclaw reach, blightning, IoK/TS, LoTV, the rack, waste not, etc.
From what I saw, the field had a substantial amount of small zoo (a couple large zoo as well), RG Tron, and UWR control. There weren't nearly as many junk lists as I was expecting, but certainly a couple.
Are you sure about that? 147 for Standard doesn't sound right. Did you mean Legacy or did Modern have more of a turn out than Standard?
Modern has 160. Standard has 147.
Also, it looks like at least one player is on Amulet in the T8: Stephen Speck. He's back on his deck after missing out at GP Omaha and drew into the T8.
EDIT: Lists to come but Speck takes it. Amulet wins!
1. Amulet
2. UWR Midrange
3. GW Hatebears
4. Burn
5. Affinity
6. Gruul Zoo
7. Affinity
8. Burn
9. Elves
10. Dredgevine
11. Sovereigns Bant
12. Dredgevine/Dredge
13. Mono W Death and Taxes
14. Burn
15. RB Rack
16. Merfolk
declists for reference
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
Bant Conscription doing well is always great. What surprises me is that there is no Junk in the entire top 8. That field just looks amazing.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Zero Junk in the T8 AND T16 is very surprising. 1-2 wouldn't have shocked me. But 0? That's surprising.
Maybe people couldn't afford Goyf, Bob, and LotV and gave up on the deck...
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
That seems like an incredibly improbable explanation, especially given that there were 3 Junk decks and 1 Jund deck in the T8/T16 last week at the previous SCG.
Yeah, 15% of the top decks last week and all of a sudden people cant afford those 3 cards. Not likely. There was plenty of Goyf, Bob and LotV in Legacy which was played on Saturday.
Of course it would be nice to know all the decks played and in what numbers before we discount anything.
Guess this should quiet down the 15% crowd that was already talking of a ban of Junk.
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I noticed that but didn't say anything. None of those top 8 decks seem out of place, but no Junk is out of place, particularly in the top 16. Maybe the deck just hasn't been tuned properly yet. We know the shell is still solid.
Yeah, this is quite plausible. That top sixteen looks anything but friendly for Junk. I suspect a lot of people were expecting BGx to make a big showing and showed up prepared.
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
The field at large had a seemingly ENORMOUS amount of Affinity in it. I played against Affinity 4 times out of 8 rounds (3 in the early rounds including against one of the guys who Top 8'd with it, and once in the late rounds). A few other players I talked to remarked about the relative lack of Junk decks, I believe only two Junk decks were spotted near the top tables. Looking around at the top tables, I didn't see any Scapeshift players at all and only saw one Tron deck -- the lack of pyroclasms obviously was nice for me and for the guy who was tearing it up with Elves but came up just short.
The most interesting rogue deck I saw was in Round 8, a guy was playing a Soul Sisters deck with Return to the Ranks and had Viscera Seers and Blood Artists. He told me that Sam Black had written about it and he and his buddy had adjusted it from that list, iirc.
BTW, I was amazed at how many people had to read Sovereigns of Lost Alara. Like I think all day maybe only one guy didn't pick it up and stare at it. I had to fetch the English copy of Conscription all day instead of my foreign one just to avoid a million calls for oracle text. Both these cards were played in what was arguably the best deck in Standard only 4 years ago, so I have to surmise there are a lot of people playing Modern who didn't play in ALA/ZEN standard, which says something about the game's growth during that span.
Congratulations on the finish, especially with such a cool rogue deck! Those observations about the metagame are pretty interesting. Do you think there may have been more Junk early on that got weeded out by the large amounts of Affinity, or did it seem like most people showed up to beat it rather than play it?
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR