Why not add Dark Confidant so you can take 7 from a Karn Liberated? Also, good luck with that deck vs. Affinity or heaven forbid, RDW.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Actually, while all "good," there isn't really the synergy going on. Flashback remand with snap? Great! Flashback Lightning bolt with Snap? Great! Flashback back Thoughtsieze with snap? Meh.
I wrote this half in jest, but the more I look at it the more it actually looks viable lol.
If you're going to take the best cards in each color, then you should at least actually play the best cards in each color. Why are you playing garruk and thundermaw hellkite? 4 maindeck spellskite? 2 maindeck Karn? Restoration angels with only 2 blink targets? This isn't even a goodstuff deck, it's just random cards thrown into a pile with no synergy or strategy.
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If you're going to take the best cards in each color, then you should at least actually play the best cards in each color. Why are you playing garruk and thundermaw hellkite? 4 maindeck spellskite? 2 maindeck Karn? Restoration angels with only 2 blink targets? This isn't even a goodstuff deck, it's just random cards thrown into a pile with no synergy or strategy.
Correct.
Not really.
That's sorta what a good stuff deck is.
Agreed Resto doesn't have enough blink targets, although Thundermaw makes 4 targets, albeit off curve. Nonetheless Resto is a big butt flyer with flash. She surprise blocks and saves goyf from targeted removal. You don't need to abuse her for her to be great. Probably should be Lingering Souls though.
Disagree that you question Spellskite though. Turn 2 blocker that also protects PWs and Thundermaw, (aka your wincons) seems better than good.
If you're going to take the best cards in each color, then you should at least actually play the best cards in each color. Why are you playing garruk and thundermaw hellkite? 4 maindeck spellskite? 2 maindeck Karn? Restoration angels with only 2 blink targets? This isn't even a goodstuff deck, it's just random cards thrown into a pile with no synergy or strategy.
Correct.
Not really.
That's sorta what a good stuff deck is.
Agreed Resto doesn't have enough blink targets, although Thundermaw makes 4 targets, albeit off curve. Nonetheless Resto is a big butt flyer with flash. Seems good. Probably should be Lingering Souls though.
Disagree that you question Spellskite though. Turn 2 blocker that also protects PWs and Thundermaw, (aka your wincons) seems better than good.
Thundermaw and garruk seem very out of place there
You mean the spells that can actually win the game? I suppose they could be Birds of Paradise and Anger of the Gods, but then what's the win condition?
You're still not able to cast the dragons, Lilis, and Garruks without actually casting a Garruk which is ironic. I would suggest cutting 1 or 2 of each fetch and replace them with basics (or shocks ).
If you're really going to try pulling this stunt, you might wanna dig around for an old Standard archetype, 5 Color Control (5CC).
Also clench your buttocks when Blood Moon comes down.
I'll see your Blood Moon and raise you an Inquisition (plus the couple Thoughtseize and Mana Leak I board in game 2 when my opponent telegraphs that he's siding it in.)
I haven't even poked around the Modern forums to see if this has been attempted yet. The thread is experimental. If there is enough interest, I'll actually research it more..
If you're really going to try pulling this stunt, you might wanna dig around for an old Standard archetype, 5 Color Control (5CC).
Also clench your buttocks when Blood Moon comes down.
I'll see your Blood Moon and raise you an Inquisition (plus the couple Thoughtseize and Mana Leak I board in game 2 when my opponent telegraphs that he's siding it in.)
What does this even mean? Sure you have ways to answer it but you still auto lose a resolved blood moon, and enjoy your dead cards when they don't draw it. Finally how do you know when they're telegraphing it? Any player worth his salt will side in all cards and then take 15 out of their deck.
I initially thought you were joking around and were just trying to figure out the strongest cards of each colour, of which garruk is not but Thundermaw may be. I'm assuming you're from a standard background from having to put in garruk and hellkite to 'win the game'. No any deck with bolts, goyfs, restoration angels and snappies does not need either to win. In fact even tho it is good stuff, having a terrible manabase is a handicap you can have a better one with similar cards easily there is no real point to go 5 colour.
For one, angel is not strong without strong interactions, if you're relying on a 3/4 for 4 being good enough modern is not for you, and if you're relying on your opponents misplaying to gain value or alternatively, if they are forced to kill a creature you are winning anyway on having any other creature in teh angels slot. For two path's job should be done by the bolts/helixes/discard/lil, if you still need more kill go to terminate or other black kill. There you don't need white (I would argue souls would be the best 'good stuff' white card to put in).
For another Garruk does not fit your deck, at all, either go to 4 green cards or if you're desperate for 6 of each colour *rolls eyes* scooze or e wit are probably your choices in a good stuff deck.
What is spellskite doing, you appear to try to grind down your opponents and spellskite does not help accomplish this, in fact it isn't even a good stuff card. It is a sideboard bomb, for a goodstuff in colourless you'd be looking more at batterskull or wurmcoil engine. Karn... 7 mana... That is all.
Moral of the story is, just because a deck is a 'good stuff deck' does not mean it does not have a cohesive game plan. Think of one and come back to making this. If its just a thought experiment over if the 6 best cards of each colour could work, then go right ahead.
What does this even mean? Sure you have ways to answer it but you still auto lose a resolved blood moon, and enjoy your dead cards when they don't draw it. Finally how do you know when they're telegraphing it? Any player worth his salt will side in all cards and then take 15 out of their deck.
Some decks fold to Thrun. Some decks fold to Ensnaring Bridge. I guess I don't see your point. Opponents side in cards that foil your plan, and likewise we side in cards to foil the cards they intend to use to foil our plan. It's Magic.
I initially thought you were joking around and were just trying to figure out the strongest cards of each colour, of which garruk is not but Thundermaw may be. I'm assuming you're from a standard background from having to put in garruk and hellkite to 'win the game'. No any deck with bolts, goyfs, restoration angels and snappies does not need either to win. In fact even tho it is good stuff, having a terrible manabase is a handicap you can have a better one with similar cards easily there is no real point to go 5 colour.
I'd ask you to provide more analysis than just outright dismissing the viability of a 5 color, or at least do better than "no real point". You are probably right that the risk of a "greedy" manabase outweighs the perks of running the "best" spells from each color, but do tell, which color has redundant or lackluster qualities and thus justifies dismissing?
For two path's job should be done by the bolts/helixes/discard/lil, if you still need more kill go to terminate or other black kill. There you don't need white (I would argue souls would be the best 'good stuff' white card to put in).
While 4 Lingering Souls might ultimately be the only reason to play white, relying soley on Inquisition, Bolt, and Helix for removal seems bad. Liliana is great, but too slow to be primary. Terminate and the ilk are 2 mana compared to 1, so I can't really see comparing them. Completely different tempo. There's a reason Path is ranked the 5th or 6th best spell in the format by player polls and data compiling studies.
For another Garruk does not fit your deck, at all, either go to 4 green cards or if you're desperate for 6 of each colour *rolls eyes* scooze or e wit are probably your choices in a good stuff deck.
What is spellskite doing, you appear to try to grind down your opponents and spellskite does not help accomplish this, in fact it isn't even a good stuff card. It is a sideboard bomb, for a goodstuff in colourless you'd be looking more at batterskull or wurmcoil engine. Karn... 7 mana... That is all.
I think a discussion on the maindeck-ability of skite is for another thread. Otherwise we get into meta debates, at which point I start pointing out how it's effective against Twin, Infect, Bogles, Scapeshift, Abrupt Decay, etc..
I do like the lifelink of Batterskull to help offset the hurt of playing so many fetches and potentially shocks.
Moral of the story is, just because a deck is a 'good stuff deck' does not mean it does not have a cohesive game plan. Think of one and come back to making this. If its just a thought experiment over if the 6 best cards of each colour could work, then go right ahead.
Disrupt opponent, resolve powerful permanents, protect said permanents, win the game.
Seems pretty cohesive to me.
Play jund, it does this far better than your deck, bob > angel, manlands > painful manabase, more hand disruption lets you enter top deck mode and the more powerful permanents win in a top deck war.
As I said white is pretty redundant in this game plan, and path is not so much better than terminate that having to weaken your manabase is worth it.
But sure it seems more like a thought experiment so go ahead.
new players as they show up maybe twice with some budget deck they've spent the week designing and testing only to be beaten into oblivion by expensive decks they cannot hope to obtain and I think this is a tragedy.
(revised)
3 Lingering Souls
2 Path to Exile
Black (5)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
Red (5)
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Remand
2 Snapcaster Mage
Colorless (5)
3 Spellskite
2 Batterskull
3 Lightning Helix
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Fetid Heath
1 Fire-lit Thicket
1 Flooded Grove
1 Graven Cairns
1 Mystic Gate
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Twilight Mire
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Blood Crypt
1 Breeding Pool
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marshflats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
I wrote this half in jest, but the more I look at it the more it actually looks viable lol.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I'll go burn these cards now.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marshflats
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Verdant Catacombs
Viola!
Actually, while all "good," there isn't really the synergy going on. Flashback remand with snap? Great! Flashback Lightning bolt with Snap? Great! Flashback back Thoughtsieze with snap? Meh.
If you're going to take the best cards in each color, then you should at least actually play the best cards in each color. Why are you playing garruk and thundermaw hellkite? 4 maindeck spellskite? 2 maindeck Karn? Restoration angels with only 2 blink targets? This isn't even a goodstuff deck, it's just random cards thrown into a pile with no synergy or strategy.
Correct.
Not really.
That's sorta what a good stuff deck is.
Agreed Resto doesn't have enough blink targets, although Thundermaw makes 4 targets, albeit off curve. Nonetheless Resto is a big butt flyer with flash. She surprise blocks and saves goyf from targeted removal. You don't need to abuse her for her to be great. Probably should be Lingering Souls though.
Disagree that you question Spellskite though. Turn 2 blocker that also protects PWs and Thundermaw, (aka your wincons) seems better than good.
You mean the spells that can actually win the game? I suppose they could be Birds of Paradise and Anger of the Gods (or) Pyroclasm, but then what's the win condition?
Ok, let's try this again.
4 Path to Exile
2 Lingering Souls
Black (6)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Liliana of the Veil
Green (6)
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
Red (6)
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Remand
2 Snapcaster Mage
Colorless (3)
3 Spellskite
Gold (3)
3 Lightning Helix
Lands (25)
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Arid Mesa
3 Marsh Flats
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Verdant Catacombs
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
You're still not able to cast the dragons, Lilis, and Garruks without actually casting a Garruk which is ironic. I would suggest cutting 1 or 2 of each fetch and replace them with basics (or shocks ).
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Also clench your buttocks when Blood Moon comes down.
I'll see your Blood Moon and raise you an Inquisition (plus the couple Thoughtseize and Mana Leak I board in game 2 when my opponent telegraphs that he's siding it in.)
I haven't even poked around the Modern forums to see if this has been attempted yet. The thread is experimental. If there is enough interest, I'll actually research it more..
Suggestions?
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
1 Fetid Heath
1 Fire-lit Thicket
1 Flooded Grove
1 Graven Cairns
1 Mystic Gate
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Twilight Mire
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Blood Crypt
1 Breeding Pool
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marshflats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
I think you just fold to Blood Moon.
What does this even mean? Sure you have ways to answer it but you still auto lose a resolved blood moon, and enjoy your dead cards when they don't draw it. Finally how do you know when they're telegraphing it? Any player worth his salt will side in all cards and then take 15 out of their deck.
I initially thought you were joking around and were just trying to figure out the strongest cards of each colour, of which garruk is not but Thundermaw may be. I'm assuming you're from a standard background from having to put in garruk and hellkite to 'win the game'. No any deck with bolts, goyfs, restoration angels and snappies does not need either to win. In fact even tho it is good stuff, having a terrible manabase is a handicap you can have a better one with similar cards easily there is no real point to go 5 colour.
For one, angel is not strong without strong interactions, if you're relying on a 3/4 for 4 being good enough modern is not for you, and if you're relying on your opponents misplaying to gain value or alternatively, if they are forced to kill a creature you are winning anyway on having any other creature in teh angels slot. For two path's job should be done by the bolts/helixes/discard/lil, if you still need more kill go to terminate or other black kill. There you don't need white (I would argue souls would be the best 'good stuff' white card to put in).
For another Garruk does not fit your deck, at all, either go to 4 green cards or if you're desperate for 6 of each colour *rolls eyes* scooze or e wit are probably your choices in a good stuff deck.
What is spellskite doing, you appear to try to grind down your opponents and spellskite does not help accomplish this, in fact it isn't even a good stuff card. It is a sideboard bomb, for a goodstuff in colourless you'd be looking more at batterskull or wurmcoil engine. Karn... 7 mana... That is all.
Moral of the story is, just because a deck is a 'good stuff deck' does not mean it does not have a cohesive game plan. Think of one and come back to making this. If its just a thought experiment over if the 6 best cards of each colour could work, then go right ahead.
Some decks fold to Thrun. Some decks fold to Ensnaring Bridge. I guess I don't see your point. Opponents side in cards that foil your plan, and likewise we side in cards to foil the cards they intend to use to foil our plan. It's Magic.
I'd ask you to provide more analysis than just outright dismissing the viability of a 5 color, or at least do better than "no real point". You are probably right that the risk of a "greedy" manabase outweighs the perks of running the "best" spells from each color, but do tell, which color has redundant or lackluster qualities and thus justifies dismissing?
While 4 Lingering Souls might ultimately be the only reason to play white, relying soley on Inquisition, Bolt, and Helix for removal seems bad. Liliana is great, but too slow to be primary. Terminate and the ilk are 2 mana compared to 1, so I can't really see comparing them. Completely different tempo. There's a reason Path is ranked the 5th or 6th best spell in the format by player polls and data compiling studies.
Agreed.
I think a discussion on the maindeck-ability of skite is for another thread. Otherwise we get into meta debates, at which point I start pointing out how it's effective against Twin, Infect, Bogles, Scapeshift, Abrupt Decay, etc..
I do like the lifelink of Batterskull to help offset the hurt of playing so many fetches and potentially shocks.
Disrupt opponent, resolve powerful permanents, protect said permanents, win the game.
Seems pretty cohesive to me.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
As I said white is pretty redundant in this game plan, and path is not so much better than terminate that having to weaken your manabase is worth it.
But sure it seems more like a thought experiment so go ahead.
:symu::symw: Control
:symr::symb: Aggro
Life Gain
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB