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July Ban List Speculation Thread
Poll: Which cards would you like to see or think should be unbanned?
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Which cards would you like to see or think should be unbanned? - Multiple Choice
- Ancestral Vision 30.7% of Users - 50 votes
- Ancient Den 3.7% of Users - 6 votes
- Blazing Shoal 2.5% of Users - 4 votes
- Bloodbraid Elf 25.8% of Users - 42 votes
- Chrome Mox 6.7% of Users - 11 votes
- Cloudpost 7.4% of Users - 12 votes
- Dark Depths 5.5% of Users - 9 votes
- Deathrite Shaman 19% of Users - 31 votes
- Dread Return 12.9% of Users - 21 votes
- Glimpse of Nature 6.7% of Users - 11 votes
- Golgari Grave-Troll 47.2% of Users - 77 votes
- Great Furnace 3.1% of Users - 5 votes
- Green Sun's Zenith 14.7% of Users - 24 votes
- Hypergenesis 4.9% of Users - 8 votes
- Jace, the Mind Sculptor 20.9% of Users - 34 votes
- Mental Misstep 3.7% of Users - 6 votes
- Ponder 17.2% of Users - 28 votes
- Preordain 20.2% of Users - 33 votes
- Punishing Fire 8.6% of Users - 14 votes
- Rite of Flame 4.9% of Users - 8 votes
- Seat of the Synod 3.1% of Users - 5 votes
- Second Sunrise 9.8% of Users - 16 votes
- Seething Song 11.7% of Users - 19 votes
- Sensei's Divining Top 11.7% of Users - 19 votes
- Stoneforge Mystic 8% of Users - 13 votes
- Skullclamp 3.1% of Users - 5 votes
- Sword of the Meek 25.8% of Users - 42 votes
- Tree of Tales 6.1% of Users - 10 votes
- Umezawa's Jitte 6.7% of Users - 11 votes
- Vault of Whispers 3.1% of Users - 5 votes
- I believe there shouldn't be any unbans 9.2% of Users - 15 votes
- I believe there should be more bans (name a card or cards) 8% of Users - 13 votes
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Edited for spelling.
Regarding running a 4-color deck without fetchlands:
MostlyLost on Cockatrice.
I expect no changes.
If I had to pick one, it would be Jace. I do not think he is too powerful for Modern.
I have no idea how it would affect the meta. Punishing Fire might make Jund too oppressive once again but on the other hand enable some Loam strategies which haven't done well in a while. Plus I miss some combos that doesn't simply state "I win" which is also why Thopter/Sword would be sweet to have in the format. Unlike Punishing Fire I actually think that Sword would be 100% safe unban.
However, we will most likely get no changes.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
I'm very on board for a Pod Restriction.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
Currently playing:
GCasual 8-post
R Casual Land Destruction
UBRWG Legacy Dredge
WGB Modern Melira Pod
RUG EDH
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
Golgari Grave-Troll
Bloodbraid Elf (DRS was always the problem)
Seriously consider but probably leave banned:
Ancestral Vision
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
GGT is harmless as long as Dread Return remains banhammered, it is the real problem.
BBE is just a powerful 4 mana play, not an overwhelming one, and it might make the more aggressive versions of Jund more viable.
JtMS is also a powerful 4 mana play, is answered well by BBE (so well that JtMS didn't break Standard until BBE rotated). But it is more dangerous, as in general it is a higher power level than BBE (leaving aside that BBE wins when the two cards face off against each other). I say try it, but make a statement that 'WotC is watching this card, and an emergency re-ban is an option'.
AV is riskier still due to its strength in Twin. I'd say don't unban it now, but at least test the format with it unbanned and see if I am wrong.
Obviously the best cantrips need to stay banned, or if they are unbanned, the Twin deck needs to be crushed with the banhammer, hard. AV is much less of a problem than Ponder.
I don't support banning anything that is presently legal, but Twin and Pod should be watched with no action right now.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
An unorthodox unban that I think there's a case for is Tree of Tales. Unbanning any of the other four artifact lands will give a boost to Affinity that I don't believe is warranted (take your pick of what spells you want to cast: Dispatch & Steelshaper's Gift, Galvanic Blast and Shrapnel Blast, Thoughtcast & Master of Etherium, Thoughtseize & Disciple of the Vault).
But I remain skeptical that there's a slot in the Affinity builds for Tree of Tales; of the five colors of magic, I've never seen an Affinity build that would really want to play Tree of Tales, and to play it, they're either cutting Glimmervoid, Citadel, or an artifact manland, all of which seem like better lands than Tree of Tales. But there's of course the possibility that I am missing something critical which makes this a dumb unban. If so, please do let me know.
I don't think it will happen, simply because there's no real decks that would use it but Affinity, and WotC doesn't want to put Affinity over the top by mistake, but I don't necessarily think it is an unsafe unban.
Most likely, there will be no change along with some generic statement patting themselves on the back and congratulating themselves for the "health of the format".
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
It's not without risks but:
- on the price/availability issues: Tarmogoyf, Liliana, Scalding Tarn, Misty Rainforest and some other cards are about as bad on this front. Tarmogoyf is definitely worse, and noone has suggested banning it.
- on the power issues: BBE would really keep it in check, IMO. (I would be opposed to banning JtMS if BBE remained banned). JtMS would indeed be pretty universal in non-combo blue decks and at least marginal as a backup plan in blue combo, but similar things can be said about Tarmogoyf (played in every non-combo green deck and as a plan B in combo decks that sometimes splash green just for it); Thoughtseize (played in every deck that can make B on turn 1) and Bolt (played in every non-combo red deck).
In Legacy, you can cast JtMS and protect it with 4 mana. This is not an option in Modern (at least not using good cards).
I'm not *certain* it's a safe unban, but I feel it's safer than any card other than BBE and GGT.
Edit: Oh and a big 'god no' to any suggestion of unbanning Sword of the Meek. Twin/Exarch is a fair 2 card combo because there's no good cards that tutor for both pieces. There are good cards that tutor for Sword and also tutor for Thopter Foundry. Fabricate Tezzeret the Seeker
liliana is roughly the same though, and you can't really use his price as justification for him to remained banned, with the turn 4 rule in place, blue decks tapping out on turn 4 will be dangerous, so its unlikely he'll come down early, or risk losing the game
Basically the same for me.. I'd like to play with sword of the meek, Visions and Grave troll are perfectly fine in modern but things are working fine atm I expect no changes.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
As for unbans I really feel like ancestral visions and the grave troll can safely come off. Dredgevine gets a minor bump in power (bringing it to what, solidly T2?) with no downside considering there aren't any shells i can think of that would utilize the dredge machine. Visions I think it safe because there aren't too many viable cascade spells outside of dedicated cascade decks (Living End/Restore Balance) and neither of those guys would play it because each respective version can't cast spells less than 3. Adding it might be a boost to the slower RWU decks, but it's inability to interact with snapcaster mage really limits the value of including it in the deck.