Hello fellow sliver enthusiasts. I want to make a sliver deck for modern. And I would really like for it to be a good deck. I am also a dyslectic and English is not my first language.
As far as I can see there are four possible directions to take the deck into. But before that I think it is important to talk about the modern format.
Modern is an insane format filled with a lot of combo decks. Both “Birthing Pod” and “Twin Exarch” can pull a win out from anywhere. Twin Exarch has instant speed, Pod is very consistent with a lot of tutors. Usually disrupt able by killing some of the key creatures. “UR Storm” and “Scapeshift” are combo decks with very little interaction with the opponent. UR Storm are just playing spells until it hits a sweet spot where it wins by playing tons of card draw and mana generation over and over. Scapeshift just want to get to 6 mana and cast Scapeshift, finding Valakut and kill us.
The control decks are “Rock” (good spells, card draw and big creatures, more of a midrange deck then control) “UWR midrange” (some with creatures, some with instant speed spells. Get better the longer the game lasts) “UrzaTron” (perhaps not a “control deck”, it just puts together 7 mana very easily and start casting the biggest badest artefacts and/or blue cards in the format.)
The agro decks are Affinity (kill you with archbound ravager or cranial plating fast) Jund (Kills you very fast and consistently with the best creatures per mana ratio possible) red deck wins (throws creatures at you and then spells, or just resolves 7 burn spells to the face.)
These 3 different decks are horrible to prepare against. Inn between the best agro possible, one and two card combo decks and consistent control decks it will not be possible to make a rogue deck. Instead of finding something that can counter the metagame we should make a deck that focuses on what we want it to do, and just do it better.
The sliver archetypes as far as I can see: “Sliver Poison”, “Agro Lord”, “Control Sliver” and “Big Sliver”.
“Sliver Poison”: We try to find Virulent Sliver, preferably in multiples. Attack and apply poison counters. If you have 2 Virulent Slivers in the table each attack that hits will deal 2 poison counters and it can add up fast. Use Predatory Sliver or other Poison/Infect/Proliferate cards to supplement as plan B. I do think it is very fragile.
Key Cards: Virulent Sliver, Chord of Calling, Summons’s Pact, Galerider Sliver, Phantasmal Image.
“Agro Lord”: Apply pressure by playing fast good slivers and kill your opponent. Hopefully our speed and lords will make us able to compete with the speed of the other agro decks. I think this can be a competitive build but someone needs to play test it. Ancient Ziggurat, Cavern of Souls Sliver Hive and Æther Vial will fix any mana problems. A suggested list follows, the bracket entries might be better but we do not know without a play test.
1cc: Galerider Sliver, Sidewinder Sliver, Æther Vial (Mind Lash Sliver) these are good and you want bodies in the table as early as possible. The mindlash is if you can somehow get rid of your opponents hand in some way and if you need more bodies earlier. It can be worth looking into.
2cc: Sinew Sliver, Predatory Sliver, Frenzy Sliver, Leeching Sliver, Phantasmal Image (Two-Headed Sliver) Sinew and Predatory are good. We want as much of this if we want a sliver deck to be able to compete with the other agro decks. Frenzy and Leeching are just as good as the previous two, if they are not blocked. Sidewinder and Galerider will help in this fashion. Phantasmal Image is good because we want as many lords as possible. Two-Headed is in case 4 gale riders are not enough. Several of the decks in the metagame run blockers.
3cc: Sedge Sliver, Mirror Entity (Fire Wake Sliver) 3cc is very expensive in my opinion as we need to be fast. Sedge is another lord (include some swamps) but the regeneration is not good enough to cost one mana more. Mirror Entity is a very good finisher. Play a vial on turn 1, play some sliver on turn 2 and 3 and turn 4 sneak the entity into play and pay 3 mana for an over run. (Although Ancient Ziggurat might be bad here.)
4cc: (Bone Scythe Sliver, Bone Splitter Sliver) both of these are oh so aggressive but alas I think they cost too much.
A deck like this would probably also try to run some disruption. Preferably Thoughtsieze, Lightning Bolt, Abrupt Decay, Flame Slash and/or Path to Exile as they are the current bread and butter or the format. (Since we will be tapping a lot Slaughter Pact can also function.) If someone can please play test a deck along these lines and give us some information on this then that would be awesome. I think this can really be the way to go!
“Control Sliver” is the sliver deck that did well once upon a time. It was a very tight sliver deck with a few of the best slivers backed up by the best control cards that where available. Back in the day it was known as “Meathooks” I believe, and one of the deck lists can be found by googling meathooks + demonic tutor. (I was not allowed to post a link.)
A problem these days is that we have no Force of Will, Counterspell, Demonic Consultation and no Crystalline Sliver. I do not even know if the old decklist would function in today’s modern environment. I do however think that suck a list can be a very strong contender. We should start to identify cheap good slivers that can make this deck good. After all, they must be good enough to play over snapcast mage and young pyromanser. The new Sliver Hive is good in this form of deck and I would appreciate any good results people can report with decks like this. It worked in the 90’s, why not in the 10’s?
“Big Sliver” is the deck we wish sliver decks where. We make them in casual but it carries over badly in the competitive scene. Agro decks are too fast for us (life gain might mitigate this) Combo Decks assemble their pieces and win while we play goofy slivers and Control Decks kill our key slivers, board wipe and/or outdraws us.
However if a deck that plays all the “good but to expensive slivers” we need to focus on the best slivers that give our deck a controlling edge. The bracket slivers are slivers that might be good, but I do not think they will be the back bone of the deck:
1) Virulent Sliver is an odd form of combo deck. If you have 2 of them on the table you only need to hit 5 times. If you want to do the same with the lords you need to pump them to 4 attack to get the same result. I do however agree that the deck is far to fragile as an archtype (As I discused in the first deck.)
2) I do not think you need to think colours when making the sliver deck. Talking about thinks like "naya" is not requiered. With fetchlands/shock lands, ancient zigurats, cavern of souls and sliver hive you should not have mana problems. If you want to ad manaweft/gemhide sliver then that is because you want to ramp it up the mana. If you want to play agresive (with lords) then you want to tap your creatures for attack, not making mana. In my opinion manaweft/gemhide belongs in the "big mana" type of deck where you try to get to the bigger (and slower) slivers.
3) Out of the four decks the agro lord deck is where Homing Sliver does not belong. Spending 3 mana to find another sliver is bad when you can just spend 3 mana or less to play another lord. Remember we are in aformat where playing a deciever excharch round 3 and splinter twin turn 4 is enough to go infinite and kill you. Be fast or be controll.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
Honestly, I feel like Slivers are going to find themselves competitive, but not just yet some of the many tricks they have can do crazy things, the mana base is more stable than ever and the cards are there to build with. But to be you have to weigh up the advantages of Slivers against a deck like Merfolk and see what you get. Right now, I feel like anything these guys can do, the fish are better at doing. That said, I do see that changing over time as more of these guys are printed.
If I was going to build, I would go an Aggro route with a splash of mana control. Cards like Tec Edge, Fulminator Mage and Ghost Quarter could find themselves on the deck to pressure the mana while you build up and attack with Slivers dropped off of vials and buffed.
At lest, that's what comes to mind. I would just ask what it is you hope to achieve as you build, because the mana is there now, but will it be as good as other decks or just something cool? Going for cool and fine too. Sometimes flavor is more fun than being the best in a room.
I agree with your comparesing between fish, the meerfolk deck, and slivers. They both try to pile on lords until the other person is dead. Unfortunatly fish is currently a tier two or three deck. It is not tier 1.
If we balance the pro's and cons of each the merfolks are bigger then slivers usualy.
Slivers on the other hand reach critical mass quite fast and with the current mana base in modern we can add any singel colour mana spells to the deck to helpus out. Path to Exile, Vendetta, Flame Slash, Lightning Bolt, Thoughtsieze, Inquisition of Kozilek, Remand, Mana Leak, Dismember, Springleaf Drum, Abrupt Decay and Æther Vial can be added as needed depending on what mana base we build on. That is not something fish can do.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
Been running Bant Poison Slivers for a few months locally.
1) Virulent Sliver is a must in a sliver deck. Players are so worried about losing to poison he eats removal, saving your lords.
2) The mana base is the trickiest thing to pull off. Took me a while to get it right for my build.
3) You have to have a way of switching gears in your 75. My main build is aggro/poison with a few touches of control to push through damage. With the side I can transform the deck into a more controlish version.
4) Aether Vial is a must for the aggro build, not so much for the controlish version.
Its a fun deck, possibly can catch the meta off guard now and again. But its more of a T1.5/T2 deck.
My opponion is that unless there is a persist/undying sliver, aggro slivers is worse then merfolk, they lack the bag of tricks merfolk has, and take too many slots to be a full curve. As long as pod lives, anger of the gods is there.
With out a flicker/hexproof/ flash sliver, tempo/control silvers can not be played. Might as well do a control deck with resto angels
Slivers have come further. More lords, better effects, pushed costs, vial, but tey lack something that makes them better than other tribes.
I've been going about trying Slivers with various incarnations of colors, all lords, toolbox, ramp... Crystalline Sliver is what makes the legacy deck tick, and unless the blue uncommon in the M15 cycle is Hexproof or a Kira-like ability I don't think Slivers have the oomph needed. Zoo does weenie better, Merfolk does tribal better... believe me I want it to work. I think the black M15 sliver is great, but not quite enough for the Bolt-Snapcaster-Bolt world we live in.
I agree with your comparesing between fish, the meerfolk deck, and slivers. They both try to pile on lords until the other person is dead. Unfortunatly fish is currently a tier two or three deck. It is not tier 1.
If we balance the pro's and cons of each the merfolks are bigger then slivers usualy.
Slivers on the other hand reach critical mass quite fast and with the current mana base in modern we can add any singel colour mana spells to the deck to helpus out. Path to Exile, Vendetta, Flame Slash, Lightning Bolt, Thoughtsieze, Inquisition of Kozilek, Remand, Mana Leak, Dismember, Springleaf Drum, Abrupt Decay and Æther Vial can be added as needed depending on what mana base we build on. That is not something fish can do.
Why not just start with the Timespiral Block PTQ winning combo slivers shell? Add better lands and improve the weaker spots on the curve. Run Remand instead of Delay. That deck plays out much more like combo elves than a lord-based aggro deck, and I think it fares much better for that very reason. Dormant Sliver is the only reason to play slivers in Modern, and I suppose you could even run beck/call as well for additional glimpse-type effects.
With the recent spoiling of Diffusion Sliver this is a really possibility. I would say Bant Slivers would work the best.
Agreed, especially since it also has the recently spoiled Venom Sliver (though I am really tempted to add the red 1-drop first strike Sliver in there as well).
Welp. Diffusion Sliver is enough for me to say, time to work on tempo slivers.
Called it. Bant Slivers splashing Two-Headed Sliver (which they now made a 3-mana version of) is my bet for a workable list. Aether Vials, all the 2-mana lords, Adaptive Automaton , and this new blue sliver... just go to town folks.
Welp. Diffusion Sliver is enough for me to say, time to work on tempo slivers.
Called it. Bant Slivers splashing Two-Headed Sliver (which they now made a 3-mana version of) is my bet for a workable list. Aether Vials, all the 2-mana lords, Adaptive Automaton , and this new blue sliver... just go to town folks.
I'd probably add in the 1-drop red first strike Sliver from M14 before adding in Two-Headed Sliver.
Why not just start with the Timespiral Block PTQ winning combo slivers shell? Add better lands and improve the weaker spots on the curve. Run Remand instead of Delay. That deck plays out much more like combo elves than a lord-based aggro deck, and I think it fares much better for that very reason. Dormant Sliver is the only reason to play slivers in Modern, and I suppose you could even run beck/call as well for additional glimpse-type effects.
Dormant Sliver gives all of your slivers defender....Isn't that kind of counter-intuitive in a deck like this? Yes the card draw is nice, but then you need a whole new win con and you might as well not run slivers. Unless there is something I am missing...
Why not just start with the Timespiral Block PTQ winning combo slivers shell? Add better lands and improve the weaker spots on the curve. Run Remand instead of Delay. That deck plays out much more like combo elves than a lord-based aggro deck, and I think it fares much better for that very reason. Dormant Sliver is the only reason to play slivers in Modern, and I suppose you could even run beck/call as well for additional glimpse-type effects.
That sliver combo deck from TSP block was bad. It never really caught on in Standard. Where poison slivers hung around till almost the end of their time in Standard with different builds.
With the new slivers from M15, it looks like Wotc wants eternal formats to have another tribe competitive. Should be interesting.
Dormant Sliver gives all of your slivers defender....Isn't that kind of counter-intuitive in a deck like this? Yes the card draw is nice, but then you need a whole new win con and you might as well not run slivers. Unless there is something I am missing...
Why not just start with the Timespiral Block PTQ winning combo slivers shell? Add better lands and improve the weaker spots on the curve. Run Remand instead of Delay. That deck plays out much more like combo elves than a lord-based aggro deck, and I think it fares much better for that very reason. Dormant Sliver is the only reason to play slivers in Modern, and I suppose you could even run beck/call as well for additional glimpse-type effects.
Dormant Sliver gives all of your slivers defender....Isn't that kind of counter-intuitive in a deck like this? Yes the card draw is nice, but then you need a whole new win con and you might as well not run slivers. Unless there is something I am missing...
The plan is to chain dormants into more and more slivers, build a massive board state, and then sac them so the rest of your team can swing in a single lethal attack step. For example, with firewake+gemhide+dormant in play, every 1-drop sliver pays for itself by being a hasty mana producer which drew 1 or more additional cards when it came into play. The card draw from dormants stack too, so with two in play you get to draw 2 cards per sliver, etc. Think of it like elves or storm. Around turn 4 or so, you hopefully have a critical mass of accelerants and slivers to start chaining them together and drawing your deck.
When I heard there was an uncommon cycle of Slivers in M15 I had hoped there would be enough in the set to build a solid Sliver deck in modern. After seeing what was spoiled I'm not sure if we were given enough to make anything competitive. Diffusion Sliver might be just enough though to encourage me to build a trial deck.
Considering what's avalible I believe a tempo based aggro deck may be the best route. Looking at what is avalible I feel black is a color that offers us the least. The new two drop is good, but might not be good enough. Thoughtseize may be too ambitious of an addition considering the problems posed by ensuring turn one black mana that can be used to cast non creature spells. Red may be a good splash color for burn and Boros Charm to help close out games. Venom Sliver could make Striking Sliver a strong addition and Two-headed Sliver could provided pseudo evasion if you wanted to cut blue (which I fees the wrong decision).
To me Bant provides the best core. Here are the cards I feel should be the core:
Boros Charm, Lightning Bolt and Remand also deserve strong consideration. Lightning Helix may also have a place.
As far as lands go Sliver Hive feels like a trap. This deck wants Mutavault and some number of Cavern of Souls which strains your ability to cast spells so more than one or two could make the deck too clunky.
Again this is just where I would start. Like I said Venom Sliver and Striking Sliver may have a place as well. Bonescythe Sliver could be a curve topper as well.
So running Frenetic Sliver alongside your other slivers could make them all even more ludicrously difficult to remove, and gives some fairly cheap boardwipe insurance. If you've got three or four slivers out, at least a few should stick around through a wipe, and if you have Diffusion Sliver at the same time, there's a fifty percent chance that they just played incredibly overcosted removal to do nothing.
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1. Manabase is good enough for any amount of sliver colors.
2. Just jam the critical mass of 2 mana +1/+1 lord slivers and diffusion one. Leeching sliver works as pseudo +1/+1 lord.
t1 1-drop sliver t2 lord t3 lord kills opponent turn 4
If they sweep away everything you hope for mutavaults and hives to carry you there in longer game.
With current cardpool of slivers it won't get better than that.
Against goyf decks your plan is flying and deathtouch slivers.
3-4 cmc slivers like disenchant sliver and vindicate sliver wait in SB for specific matchups.
hi all! im a kiki pod pllayer but slivers allways been a nice deck that i want to become a tier 1 in modern! I'm sure Diffusion Sliver is the card we need, although is not a crystaline in most of cases it will do its job! i took the RancytheRancor core, which i think is something that can't miss in any sliver deck! i put my list here:
Now here it misses 4 cards, and i was thinking at different ones like: gemhide slivers (protection from blood moon, with that mana base, is allways good), path to exile (with evasions guys and leeching sliver i dont think is needed), ghor clan ravager (push the damage!!), boros charm (protection from mass removal, but double specific color is hard to cast), and and and... yea i know its crazy but i like it as a finisher, Sliver Hivelord ! the thing i like the most is 4x Ghor Clan Rampager OR 2x Gemhide Sliver and 2x Sliver Hivelord.
in side i'd put 4x Venom Sliver, against tarmo/aggro decks, 2x/4x Harmonic Sliver (i'd put 2x harmonic and other things like ancient grudge).
what do you think? i think it's a hella nic eboost with the new slivers
PS. other 4x nice cards i think it's Vapor Snag, dmg + tempo + lightning bolt are nice!
Perhaps a little light on the actual lords (side winder helps) but the black leeching and frenzy slivers might help. The springleaf drum and the vial are there to help ease the deck into the right spot. I think springleaf drum is an actual good card as you can play your sliver and them tap it for mana. A good head start, a spring leaf drum and/or an æther vial on 2 can help fight the blood moon. Drum is also more rainbow colour. The thoughtsieze and path to exile are unfortunatly the only 7 spots dedicated to fighting ouer oponent, as I feel some cards should force them to play around us. Thoughtsieze will help stop anger of the gods. Diffusion sliver will also make it harder for them to stop us. It has only 4 gale rider and 1 two-headed to come around blockers. If pod/afinnaty/jund/rock starts playing blockers predatory, sinew and sidewinder will hopefully be enough to function as a plan B. If we do not have enough mana problems it might justefy putting in some mutavaults. I did not dare use them in the original draft as we need coming crashing out of the gates.
The second one is a control version.
4x Sliver Hive
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Tropical Island
4x Breeding Pool
1x Temple Garden
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Mutavault
1x Forrest
1x Island
This might seem like an odd one and it probably is. Try to keep control with your counter spells and the path of exile. Ouer winn condition is Mirror Entety and slivers. Sphinxes Revelation + deprive, path of exile and cryptic command will hopefully be good enough control cards. If you want to improve on the design I really think disrupting shoal can be worth adding. As can Dormant Sliver + Necrotic Sliver. Sliver Hivelord can also fitt into this deck. Return to the Ranks would be good if we had more slivers in the actual deck. If people have other takes on this deck, please post them!
On a final note: Both Curiosety, Keen Sence and Warriors' Lesson are legal in modern and function very well with slivers, but not in the decks I sugested.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
I think RancytheRancor core is a good place to start. However:
- Phantasmal image is not good in Modern, it can be targeted with many thing. (In legacy is different because 90% of the spells that target kills the creature, and even though it only sees play in one deck, and because of TNN which makes it untargeteable)
- Syphon Sliver looks really, really good... An Thoughtseize looks like a necesary as the only way to interact opponent spells.
- If it was a 3 color deck, Tectonic edge could be included as it makes Diffusion Sliver better and it's overall a good card in this greedy meta.
In any case I have in mind a five color deck with a 2-4 City of brass, 4 Mana confluence, and 4 Reflecting pool. And then the Sliver lands (3-4 Hive and 2-4 Cavern)
And 3-4 Manaweft sliver to ramp, fix mana and fight Blood Moon and Tec edges.
With Sliver Hivemind for free wins. (Dominating combat phases in modern is good)
While I agree Phantasmal Image may be a weaker choice I feel the deck desperately needs more lords to function properly. I was originally hopeful for a hexproof Sliver to help bypass Images drawback. Return to the Ranks might make the drawback more palpable, as well as provide a much needed means to replenish the board.
I get Thoughtseize, but I'm worried it will strain the manabase too much to be cast able turn one. Remand, Mana Leak and Vapor Snag can provide tempo and a meaningful way to interact with opponents.
As far as I can see there are four possible directions to take the deck into. But before that I think it is important to talk about the modern format.
Modern is an insane format filled with a lot of combo decks. Both “Birthing Pod” and “Twin Exarch” can pull a win out from anywhere. Twin Exarch has instant speed, Pod is very consistent with a lot of tutors. Usually disrupt able by killing some of the key creatures. “UR Storm” and “Scapeshift” are combo decks with very little interaction with the opponent. UR Storm are just playing spells until it hits a sweet spot where it wins by playing tons of card draw and mana generation over and over. Scapeshift just want to get to 6 mana and cast Scapeshift, finding Valakut and kill us.
The control decks are “Rock” (good spells, card draw and big creatures, more of a midrange deck then control) “UWR midrange” (some with creatures, some with instant speed spells. Get better the longer the game lasts) “UrzaTron” (perhaps not a “control deck”, it just puts together 7 mana very easily and start casting the biggest badest artefacts and/or blue cards in the format.)
The agro decks are Affinity (kill you with archbound ravager or cranial plating fast) Jund (Kills you very fast and consistently with the best creatures per mana ratio possible) red deck wins (throws creatures at you and then spells, or just resolves 7 burn spells to the face.)
These 3 different decks are horrible to prepare against. Inn between the best agro possible, one and two card combo decks and consistent control decks it will not be possible to make a rogue deck. Instead of finding something that can counter the metagame we should make a deck that focuses on what we want it to do, and just do it better.
The sliver archetypes as far as I can see: “Sliver Poison”, “Agro Lord”, “Control Sliver” and “Big Sliver”.
“Sliver Poison”: We try to find Virulent Sliver, preferably in multiples. Attack and apply poison counters. If you have 2 Virulent Slivers in the table each attack that hits will deal 2 poison counters and it can add up fast. Use Predatory Sliver or other Poison/Infect/Proliferate cards to supplement as plan B. I do think it is very fragile.
Key Cards: Virulent Sliver, Chord of Calling, Summons’s Pact, Galerider Sliver, Phantasmal Image.
“Agro Lord”: Apply pressure by playing fast good slivers and kill your opponent. Hopefully our speed and lords will make us able to compete with the speed of the other agro decks. I think this can be a competitive build but someone needs to play test it. Ancient Ziggurat, Cavern of Souls Sliver Hive and Æther Vial will fix any mana problems. A suggested list follows, the bracket entries might be better but we do not know without a play test.
1cc: Galerider Sliver, Sidewinder Sliver, Æther Vial (Mind Lash Sliver) these are good and you want bodies in the table as early as possible. The mindlash is if you can somehow get rid of your opponents hand in some way and if you need more bodies earlier. It can be worth looking into.
2cc: Sinew Sliver, Predatory Sliver, Frenzy Sliver, Leeching Sliver, Phantasmal Image (Two-Headed Sliver) Sinew and Predatory are good. We want as much of this if we want a sliver deck to be able to compete with the other agro decks. Frenzy and Leeching are just as good as the previous two, if they are not blocked. Sidewinder and Galerider will help in this fashion. Phantasmal Image is good because we want as many lords as possible. Two-Headed is in case 4 gale riders are not enough. Several of the decks in the metagame run blockers.
3cc: Sedge Sliver, Mirror Entity (Fire Wake Sliver) 3cc is very expensive in my opinion as we need to be fast. Sedge is another lord (include some swamps) but the regeneration is not good enough to cost one mana more. Mirror Entity is a very good finisher. Play a vial on turn 1, play some sliver on turn 2 and 3 and turn 4 sneak the entity into play and pay 3 mana for an over run. (Although Ancient Ziggurat might be bad here.)
4cc: (Bone Scythe Sliver, Bone Splitter Sliver) both of these are oh so aggressive but alas I think they cost too much.
A deck like this would probably also try to run some disruption. Preferably Thoughtsieze, Lightning Bolt, Abrupt Decay, Flame Slash and/or Path to Exile as they are the current bread and butter or the format. (Since we will be tapping a lot Slaughter Pact can also function.) If someone can please play test a deck along these lines and give us some information on this then that would be awesome. I think this can really be the way to go!
“Control Sliver” is the sliver deck that did well once upon a time. It was a very tight sliver deck with a few of the best slivers backed up by the best control cards that where available. Back in the day it was known as “Meathooks” I believe, and one of the deck lists can be found by googling meathooks + demonic tutor. (I was not allowed to post a link.)
A problem these days is that we have no Force of Will, Counterspell, Demonic Consultation and no Crystalline Sliver. I do not even know if the old decklist would function in today’s modern environment. I do however think that suck a list can be a very strong contender. We should start to identify cheap good slivers that can make this deck good. After all, they must be good enough to play over snapcast mage and young pyromanser. The new Sliver Hive is good in this form of deck and I would appreciate any good results people can report with decks like this. It worked in the 90’s, why not in the 10’s?
“Big Sliver” is the deck we wish sliver decks where. We make them in casual but it carries over badly in the competitive scene. Agro decks are too fast for us (life gain might mitigate this) Combo Decks assemble their pieces and win while we play goofy slivers and Control Decks kill our key slivers, board wipe and/or outdraws us.
However if a deck that plays all the “good but to expensive slivers” we need to focus on the best slivers that give our deck a controlling edge. The bracket slivers are slivers that might be good, but I do not think they will be the back bone of the deck:
Galerider Sliver, Gemhide Sliver, Manaweft Sliver, Necrotic Sliver, Bone Splitter Sliver, Dormant Sliver, Telekinetic Sliver, Constricting Sliver
(Striking Sliver, Predatory Sliver, Sinew Sliver, Frenetic Sliver, Harmonic Sliver, Homing Sliver Sedge Sliver, Bone Scythe Sliver, Psionic Sliver, Might Sliver, Thorncast Sliver, Megantic Sliver, Sliver Hivelord)
This deck would also need to run some of the previous mentioned spells. Return to the ranks can also be good in this type of deck.
Thanks for the patience. I would love to see some Sliver Modern deck, so let us build one!
2) I do not think you need to think colours when making the sliver deck. Talking about thinks like "naya" is not requiered. With fetchlands/shock lands, ancient zigurats, cavern of souls and sliver hive you should not have mana problems. If you want to ad manaweft/gemhide sliver then that is because you want to ramp it up the mana. If you want to play agresive (with lords) then you want to tap your creatures for attack, not making mana. In my opinion manaweft/gemhide belongs in the "big mana" type of deck where you try to get to the bigger (and slower) slivers.
3) Out of the four decks the agro lord deck is where Homing Sliver does not belong. Spending 3 mana to find another sliver is bad when you can just spend 3 mana or less to play another lord. Remember we are in aformat where playing a deciever excharch round 3 and splinter twin turn 4 is enough to go infinite and kill you. Be fast or be controll.
Honestly, I feel like Slivers are going to find themselves competitive, but not just yet some of the many tricks they have can do crazy things, the mana base is more stable than ever and the cards are there to build with. But to be you have to weigh up the advantages of Slivers against a deck like Merfolk and see what you get. Right now, I feel like anything these guys can do, the fish are better at doing. That said, I do see that changing over time as more of these guys are printed.
If I was going to build, I would go an Aggro route with a splash of mana control. Cards like Tec Edge, Fulminator Mage and Ghost Quarter could find themselves on the deck to pressure the mana while you build up and attack with Slivers dropped off of vials and buffed.
At lest, that's what comes to mind. I would just ask what it is you hope to achieve as you build, because the mana is there now, but will it be as good as other decks or just something cool? Going for cool and fine too. Sometimes flavor is more fun than being the best in a room.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
If we balance the pro's and cons of each the merfolks are bigger then slivers usualy.
Slivers on the other hand reach critical mass quite fast and with the current mana base in modern we can add any singel colour mana spells to the deck to helpus out. Path to Exile, Vendetta, Flame Slash, Lightning Bolt, Thoughtsieze, Inquisition of Kozilek, Remand, Mana Leak, Dismember, Springleaf Drum, Abrupt Decay and Æther Vial can be added as needed depending on what mana base we build on. That is not something fish can do.
1) Virulent Sliver is a must in a sliver deck. Players are so worried about losing to poison he eats removal, saving your lords.
2) The mana base is the trickiest thing to pull off. Took me a while to get it right for my build.
3) You have to have a way of switching gears in your 75. My main build is aggro/poison with a few touches of control to push through damage. With the side I can transform the deck into a more controlish version.
4) Aether Vial is a must for the aggro build, not so much for the controlish version.
Its a fun deck, possibly can catch the meta off guard now and again. But its more of a T1.5/T2 deck.
With out a flicker/hexproof/ flash sliver, tempo/control silvers can not be played. Might as well do a control deck with resto angels
Slivers have come further. More lords, better effects, pushed costs, vial, but tey lack something that makes them better than other tribes.
I've been going about trying Slivers with various incarnations of colors, all lords, toolbox, ramp... Crystalline Sliver is what makes the legacy deck tick, and unless the blue uncommon in the M15 cycle is Hexproof or a Kira-like ability I don't think Slivers have the oomph needed. Zoo does weenie better, Merfolk does tribal better... believe me I want it to work. I think the black M15 sliver is great, but not quite enough for the Bolt-Snapcaster-Bolt world we live in.
Merfolk is a tier 1.5 deck.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Agreed, especially since it also has the recently spoiled Venom Sliver (though I am really tempted to add the red 1-drop first strike Sliver in there as well).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Called it. Bant Slivers splashing Two-Headed Sliver (which they now made a 3-mana version of) is my bet for a workable list. Aether Vials, all the 2-mana lords, Adaptive Automaton , and this new blue sliver... just go to town folks.
Blood Moon would be the reason. Aether Vial isn't enough to make that not hurt.
I'd probably add in the 1-drop red first strike Sliver from M14 before adding in Two-Headed Sliver.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
That sliver combo deck from TSP block was bad. It never really caught on in Standard. Where poison slivers hung around till almost the end of their time in Standard with different builds.
With the new slivers from M15, it looks like Wotc wants eternal formats to have another tribe competitive. Should be interesting.
You have Firewake Sliver and Frenetic Sliver to sac Dormant and start attacking.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
The plan is to chain dormants into more and more slivers, build a massive board state, and then sac them so the rest of your team can swing in a single lethal attack step. For example, with firewake+gemhide+dormant in play, every 1-drop sliver pays for itself by being a hasty mana producer which drew 1 or more additional cards when it came into play. The card draw from dormants stack too, so with two in play you get to draw 2 cards per sliver, etc. Think of it like elves or storm. Around turn 4 or so, you hopefully have a critical mass of accelerants and slivers to start chaining them together and drawing your deck.
Considering what's avalible I believe a tempo based aggro deck may be the best route. Looking at what is avalible I feel black is a color that offers us the least. The new two drop is good, but might not be good enough. Thoughtseize may be too ambitious of an addition considering the problems posed by ensuring turn one black mana that can be used to cast non creature spells. Red may be a good splash color for burn and Boros Charm to help close out games. Venom Sliver could make Striking Sliver a strong addition and Two-headed Sliver could provided pseudo evasion if you wanted to cut blue (which I fees the wrong decision).
To me Bant provides the best core. Here are the cards I feel should be the core:
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Phantasmal Sliver
4 Diffusion Sliver
4 Mutavault
Boros Charm, Lightning Bolt and Remand also deserve strong consideration. Lightning Helix may also have a place.
As far as lands go Sliver Hive feels like a trap. This deck wants Mutavault and some number of Cavern of Souls which strains your ability to cast spells so more than one or two could make the deck too clunky.
Again this is just where I would start. Like I said Venom Sliver and Striking Sliver may have a place as well. Bonescythe Sliver could be a curve topper as well.
2. Just jam the critical mass of 2 mana +1/+1 lord slivers and diffusion one. Leeching sliver works as pseudo +1/+1 lord.
t1 1-drop sliver t2 lord t3 lord kills opponent turn 4
If they sweep away everything you hope for mutavaults and hives to carry you there in longer game.
With current cardpool of slivers it won't get better than that.
Against goyf decks your plan is flying and deathtouch slivers.
3-4 cmc slivers like disenchant sliver and vindicate sliver wait in SB for specific matchups.
4x Predatory Sliver
4x Sinew Sliver
4x Galerider Sliver
4x Phantasmal Image
4x Diffusion Sliver
4x Leeching Sliver
4x Aether Vial
4x Lightning Bolt
4/3x Mutavault
2/3x Soul Cavern
2x Sliver Hive
4x Reflecting Pool
4x Mana Confluence
4x Gemstone Mine
2x City of Brass
Now here it misses 4 cards, and i was thinking at different ones like: gemhide slivers (protection from blood moon, with that mana base, is allways good), path to exile (with evasions guys and leeching sliver i dont think is needed), ghor clan ravager (push the damage!!), boros charm (protection from mass removal, but double specific color is hard to cast), and and and... yea i know its crazy but i like it as a finisher, Sliver Hivelord ! the thing i like the most is 4x Ghor Clan Rampager OR 2x Gemhide Sliver and 2x Sliver Hivelord.
in side i'd put 4x Venom Sliver, against tarmo/aggro decks, 2x/4x Harmonic Sliver (i'd put 2x harmonic and other things like ancient grudge).
what do you think? i think it's a hella nic eboost with the new slivers
PS. other 4x nice cards i think it's Vapor Snag, dmg + tempo + lightning bolt are nice!
OK, here are two ideas. The first one is an agro version.
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Sliver Hive
3x Mana Confluence
1x Ancient Zigurat
1x Watery Grave
1x Temple Garden
1x Godles Shrine
4x Mars Flats
1x Swamp
4x Galerider Sliver
4x Sidewinder Sliver
4x Æther Vial
2x Springleaf Drum
4x Thoughtsieze
3x Path to Exile
4x Predator Sliver
4x Sinew Sliver
4x Diffusin Sliver
4x Leeching Sliver
1x Two-Headed Sliver
2x Frenzy Sliver
Perhaps a little light on the actual lords (side winder helps) but the black leeching and frenzy slivers might help. The springleaf drum and the vial are there to help ease the deck into the right spot. I think springleaf drum is an actual good card as you can play your sliver and them tap it for mana. A good head start, a spring leaf drum and/or an æther vial on 2 can help fight the blood moon. Drum is also more rainbow colour. The thoughtsieze and path to exile are unfortunatly the only 7 spots dedicated to fighting ouer oponent, as I feel some cards should force them to play around us. Thoughtsieze will help stop anger of the gods. Diffusion sliver will also make it harder for them to stop us. It has only 4 gale rider and 1 two-headed to come around blockers. If pod/afinnaty/jund/rock starts playing blockers predatory, sinew and sidewinder will hopefully be enough to function as a plan B. If we do not have enough mana problems it might justefy putting in some mutavaults. I did not dare use them in the original draft as we need coming crashing out of the gates.
The second one is a control version.
4x Sliver Hive
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Tropical Island
4x Breeding Pool
1x Temple Garden
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Mutavault
1x Forrest
1x Island
4x Manaweft Sliver
4x Gemhide Sliver
4x Diffusion Sliver
4x Mirror Entety
4x Serum Vision
4x Path of Exile
3x Sphinxes Revelation
4x Deprive
4x Cryptic Command
This might seem like an odd one and it probably is. Try to keep control with your counter spells and the path of exile. Ouer winn condition is Mirror Entety and slivers. Sphinxes Revelation + deprive, path of exile and cryptic command will hopefully be good enough control cards. If you want to improve on the design I really think disrupting shoal can be worth adding. As can Dormant Sliver + Necrotic Sliver. Sliver Hivelord can also fitt into this deck. Return to the Ranks would be good if we had more slivers in the actual deck. If people have other takes on this deck, please post them!
On a final note: Both Curiosety, Keen Sence and Warriors' Lesson are legal in modern and function very well with slivers, but not in the decks I sugested.
While I agree Phantasmal Image may be a weaker choice I feel the deck desperately needs more lords to function properly. I was originally hopeful for a hexproof Sliver to help bypass Images drawback. Return to the Ranks might make the drawback more palpable, as well as provide a much needed means to replenish the board.
I get Thoughtseize, but I'm worried it will strain the manabase too much to be cast able turn one. Remand, Mana Leak and Vapor Snag can provide tempo and a meaningful way to interact with opponents.