It is slap-in-the-face obvious for standard players that Wizards printed convoke after inspired so someone can build a deck around it.
Does it have a role in modern as well? I'm asking because modern has older convoke cards to play with. Not sure which ones other than Chord of Calling are viable, so I'm asking.
It's clunky so it seems to be no-go, but I can't work out all the possible interactions so I can't write it off yet.
Not really in modern. The problem is there really aren't all that many inspired guys worth trying to build around. King Macar, the Gold-Cursed is pretty much the only one I would really care about and the format is just too fast for him to really do anything if you have to use convoke to get him to work.
I'm having a hard time thinking of Inspired creatures that are worth building around. None of the Inspired creatures really screams "if I untap, my controller is in an amazing position".
Other than that, the Inspired cards all occupy an awkward spot on the curve. Ideally you'd want them to be 1CMC so you can get triggers ASAP (similar to Bogles, just replace "get triggers" with "throw auras and beatdown"), but NONE OF THE INSPIRED CREATURES ARE 1CMC. That's the worst part about it; you're only getting triggers on turn 3, fastest.
Could it get any worse? Actually, yes. Turn 3 assumes that whatever you're using to tap the Inspired guy is free. How many Convoke spells can be casted for free, assuming, realistically, that you only have one or two creatures? Gather Courage? Sprout Swarm? The fact that those cards are already legal in Modern should be a hint: Inspired + Convoke is unplayable.
The way things work in modern is "is it a good card on its own? Cool. Is it broken with another good card on its own? Cool, can I do that 8 more times and make a deck outta it? Cool."
Look at pod. Finks. Great on its own, swings for 3 at cmc , life gain right away, resists removal, and gives more value after death.
Look at pod. Upgrades creatures for very little investment I to any bullet that's relevant right now. Perfect.
Put it together. Life gain, keep a creature, get another you choice for more or less free? And you can combo with it. Gross.
That's the formula for successful interaction in modern. Otherwise it's only "cute"
Creatures with inspire ability have not been around that long. I can't see any broken interactions worthy of building around but, just because I don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there. And now M15 convoke cards just came out.
However, it is good that Lantern came early and make sure everyone knows that the bar for modern is higher than in standard.
Here's a little thought experiment. Suppose all the Inspired creatures triggered at upkeep instead of whenever they untapped; you don't need to jump through any hoops to trigger them. This is about as good as it gets. Which creatures do you think are playable under these conditions?
Looking through the entire list of Inspired creatures, I'd say:
Of course, we already have a Pain Seer that doesn't require you to jump through hoops for its effect, aka Bob. And to be honest, Siren and Thief are pushing it.
Sad, isn't it? Even in fantasy land only four Inspired creatures are worth using. It gets even worse in reality, where you actually have to go through the trouble of tapping/untapping them.
I think disciple of deceit is going to show up in winning deck lists in the future, I just don't think the reason to build the deck yet is obvious/printed.
That particular effect is incredibly powerful when nearly 'free', and I think being stapled to a body might actually be great for the type of deck that will end up wanting it. I also feel the same way about ashiok, like its one card away...
Not wanting to derail this thread but I figured it worth mentioning that I have a friend who used ashiok in cruel control, and claimed it made the agro matchup much better but I have not looked at it.
As for disciple of deceit I don't know of a way to tap it reliably in a control deck and it seems lack luster in an agro deck.
I dabbled with an esper Disciple of Deceit deck which was built around Running standard control elements at the 4 of spot, but offered singletons of betters options in the same cmc slot. I.e:
4 Thoughtseize 2 Path to Exile, 1 Spellsnare
4 Liliana of the Veil 1 Phyrexian Arena 1 Sword of X and Y
The effect is very powerful, and in a deck with plenty of disruption/removal/counters swinging in safely with a 1/3 isn't very hard to do. It does centralize your deck around specific cmc's, which the nature of modern tends to gravitate towards the lower end of the spectrum, meaning dark confidant ended up playing very well together with the Disciple. Unfortunately I found that triggering on untap was actually more difficult to work with and often times I found that I just didn't have enough cards in hand, or the ones I had were lands, or the trigger came too early to utilize bob/arena to it's fullest. Not to mention the mana base was difficult to work with. I would recommend going BUG colors in the future.
What, we're talking about inspired creatures and nobody's bringing up Pain Artist?
On the whole though, I wouldn't use Convoke as the mechanic for enabling Inspired. I'd go more with stuff that taps anything, like Pestermite or Hidden Strings. At least those have the added utility of tapping down an opponent permanent or untapping your own land or whatnot.
Does it have a role in modern as well? I'm asking because modern has older convoke cards to play with. Not sure which ones other than Chord of Calling are viable, so I'm asking.
It's clunky so it seems to be no-go, but I can't work out all the possible interactions so I can't write it off yet.
chief engineer + Disciple of deceit + pili-pala + grand arcitech is something I am willing to try.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Other than that, the Inspired cards all occupy an awkward spot on the curve. Ideally you'd want them to be 1CMC so you can get triggers ASAP (similar to Bogles, just replace "get triggers" with "throw auras and beatdown"), but NONE OF THE INSPIRED CREATURES ARE 1CMC. That's the worst part about it; you're only getting triggers on turn 3, fastest.
Could it get any worse? Actually, yes. Turn 3 assumes that whatever you're using to tap the Inspired guy is free. How many Convoke spells can be casted for free, assuming, realistically, that you only have one or two creatures? Gather Courage? Sprout Swarm? The fact that those cards are already legal in Modern should be a hint: Inspired + Convoke is unplayable.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Look at pod. Finks. Great on its own, swings for 3 at cmc , life gain right away, resists removal, and gives more value after death.
Look at pod. Upgrades creatures for very little investment I to any bullet that's relevant right now. Perfect.
Put it together. Life gain, keep a creature, get another you choice for more or less free? And you can combo with it. Gross.
That's the formula for successful interaction in modern. Otherwise it's only "cute"
However, it is good that Lantern came early and make sure everyone knows that the bar for modern is higher than in standard.
Looking through the entire list of Inspired creatures, I'd say:
Of course, we already have a Pain Seer that doesn't require you to jump through hoops for its effect, aka Bob. And to be honest, Siren and Thief are pushing it.
Sad, isn't it? Even in fantasy land only four Inspired creatures are worth using. It gets even worse in reality, where you actually have to go through the trouble of tapping/untapping them.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
That particular effect is incredibly powerful when nearly 'free', and I think being stapled to a body might actually be great for the type of deck that will end up wanting it. I also feel the same way about ashiok, like its one card away...
As for disciple of deceit I don't know of a way to tap it reliably in a control deck and it seems lack luster in an agro deck.
I found gigadrowse, Azorius Guildmage Staff of Domination and Icy Manipulator though
4 Thoughtseize 2 Path to Exile, 1 Spellsnare
4 Liliana of the Veil 1 Phyrexian Arena 1 Sword of X and Y
The effect is very powerful, and in a deck with plenty of disruption/removal/counters swinging in safely with a 1/3 isn't very hard to do. It does centralize your deck around specific cmc's, which the nature of modern tends to gravitate towards the lower end of the spectrum, meaning dark confidant ended up playing very well together with the Disciple. Unfortunately I found that triggering on untap was actually more difficult to work with and often times I found that I just didn't have enough cards in hand, or the ones I had were lands, or the trigger came too early to utilize bob/arena to it's fullest. Not to mention the mana base was difficult to work with. I would recommend going BUG colors in the future.
On the whole though, I wouldn't use Convoke as the mechanic for enabling Inspired. I'd go more with stuff that taps anything, like Pestermite or Hidden Strings. At least those have the added utility of tapping down an opponent permanent or untapping your own land or whatnot.
I did, once upon a time, have the idea of building a UB deck around Disciple of Deceit. I still want to get a copy and plop it in a Commander deck for testing. The deck idea I would have had would have Disciple of Deceit, Sygg, River Cutthroat, Invisible Stalker, Remand, Bile Blight, Hidden Strings, Cloak and Dagger, and Isochron Scepter, all 2-drops tutorable by Disciple. If anybody wants to steal that idea and turn it into a good deck, be my guest.