If this box had any fetch lands or Bitterblossom, does anyone think you would actually be able to buy it for the $75 MSRP? If it contained the value everyone is asking for, stores would charge more like double that, which would defeat the whole purpose of trying to make some cards more accessible.
I didn't miss it. I think that thought process is fine and again implies that this deck will fall exactly into the hands of the players that Wizards intended. If someone wants to get into Modern with the intent of winning high level tournaments, then they are going to be willing to spend more than $75 on a deck and they would already know that pre-made product like this isn't going to be anywhere near optimal. This product is for those players that are curious about Modern and want to dabble in it. For people who have only been playing for a year or so, this puts older cards in the hands of new players, gives the feel of powerful spells and synergy that is different from Standard and gives them room to grow. The real genius being that it actively makes the purchaser want to get involved in the Modern community if they like the deck and want to improve it.
Expecting money cards in here was ridiculous to think would happen to begin with. Every getting into modern knows that those cards exist and would benefit the deck. Think if how attached to that deck a newer player would be once they got their first Marsh Flats into the deck. Think about all the cards that can be swapped out as the buyer decides. They will get this deck and make it their own and even just out of the box with some decent skill, this deck isn't stone cold terrible. Several cards can win games on their own.
If someone wants to play competitive Magic and can't justify putting $75 into it, they are going to be exceptionally disappointed with their Magic career. Entry to most high level events is $40. Let alone the cost of travel. If you fall into this category of player I think you need to reevaluate your priorities and stop expecting Wizards and other players to just give you tons of expensive cards for pennies on the dollar. Especially when you'll most likely still scrub out of high level play even with a properly built deck. So the deck isn't your deal. That's cool. Find the people who could use it, share your knowledge of Modern with them, and help them get into the format in a constructive way. I'm sure they aren't expecting to take down their first event. But improvement over time will make them feel good about their deck's improvement and their improvement as a player. Which I think is the real beauty of this product.
If the intended purpose is to get people to go to modern Fnms, meost of those are full of twin, pod, UWR, etc, and anyone who denies this is out of touch. If the goal is to encourage semi-casual modern play among friends, then you can put together decks that function much better, for the same or lower price.
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Legacy
Death and Taxes Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
I think this is a perfect product for someone who wants to jump into modern. They experience the painful land base, they get some solid cards, have a chance to win here and there and have something to build up to. I like that they picked a deck which isn't t1 because it won't oversaturate any particular meta with like 50% twin modern event decks/pod/jund ect. I think BW tokens is a fairly benign deck to introduce in large numbers to a meta if this product really takes off an establishes small new local metas.
I wonder if they'll do alt arts for inquisition or path or something?
edit: hardcore magic players mostly still don't get to the point where they post on forums, so if you thought this introductory product might have been for you....
If the intended purpose is to get people to go to modern Fnms, meost of those are full of twin, pod, UWR, etc, and anyone who denies this is out of touch. If the goal is to encourage semi-casual modern play among friends, then you can put together decks that function much better, for the same or lower price.
Funny, I'd say anyone who thinks FNM is full of top-tier decks is out of touch. #anecdotal evidence
My FNM has almost no top-tier decks. We have a bunch of tron, a few affinity, zero twin, zero storm, not a pod in sight. Some Jund. I won last week with Hatebears. My LGS starts modern 2 hours after the Standard FNM (a brilliant idea, IMO), so we get a lot of crossover from that (people dropping, etc). A lot of them just bring their standard deck, or quickly jam a few older cards in to up the power a bit. I think those folks would buy this Event Deck in a heartbeat, and I'm going to suggest it to them. As an experienced Modern player, I realize that this product isn't for me, it's for the crossover players.
But go on...if you think you know Wizards's market demographics better than they do themselves (you know, the giant, multinational gaming corporation), knock yourself out.
If the intended purpose is to get people to go to modern Fnms, meost of those are full of twin, pod, UWR, etc, and anyone who denies this is out of touch. If the goal is to encourage semi-casual modern play among friends, then you can put together decks that function much better, for the same or lower price.
Funny, I'd say anyone who thinks FNM is full of top-tier decks is out of touch. #anecdotal evidence
My FNM has almost no top-tier decks. We have a bunch of tron, a few affinity, zero twin, zero storm, not a pod in sight. Some Jund. I won last week with Hatebears. My LGS starts modern 2 hours after the Standard FNM (a brilliant idea, IMO), so we get a lot of crossover from that (people dropping, etc). A lot of them just bring their standard deck, or quickly jam a few older cards in to up the power a bit. I think those folks would buy this Event Deck in a heartbeat, and I'm going to suggest it to them. As an experienced Modern player, I realize that this product isn't for me, it's for the crossover players.
But go on...if you think you know Wizards's market demographics better than they do themselves (you know, the giant, multinational gaming corporation), knock yourself out.
My FNMs only contain Tier 1 and 2 decks. Occasionally someone will bring a brew but that is 1 person out of 25. You probably just don't live in a large city.
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Would Dark Confidant still be good if he punched you in the face for 5 damage a turn?
Different FNMs have different power levels. This is obviously not for FNMs where everyone is piloting multi-thousand dollar T1 decks. Nothing Wizards is going to put out at any reasonable price possibly could be. The only thing that could ever make those metagames accessible is something like fetches in a core set.
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*Insert giant block of annoying garbage that no one cares about but you have to scroll past anyway here*
I live in NYC and my meta is wild. I see absolutely everything from by-gone updated standard decks (like black proliferate standard poison [not the version with discard and vatmother]) to t1,2, and 3 decks. I see tons of mostly t1 and 2 decks, but really because I think people have such good access to cards via purchasing power and sharing that people will experiment with everything--there is no promise that I know what a particular player who I see regularly is on. Last week I saw 2 pod, 2 burn, 3 affinity, I was playing 4c gifts but there was also two UW gifts and 1 american gifts. last week there was 4 burn and 3 storm. It actually changes week to week, and just like everyone ordering pizza at the same time, there always seems to be a flavor of the week--hivemind theory or something.
I live in NYC and my meta is wild. I see absolutely everything from by-gone updated standard decks (like black proliferate standard poison [not the version with discard and vatmother]) to t1,2, and 3 decks. I see tons of mostly t1 and 2 decks, but really because I think people have such good access to cards via purchasing power and sharing that people will experiment with everything--there is no promise that I know what a particular player who I see regularly is on. Last week I saw 2 pod, 2 burn, 3 affinity, I was playing 4c gifts but there was also two UW gifts and 1 american gifts. last week there was 4 burn and 3 storm. It actually changes week to week, and just like everyone ordering pizza at the same time, there always seems to be a flavor of the week--hivemind theory or something.
I'm in Boston and it's largely the same. I'll see the T1 decks but I'll also see brews and the occasional Standard deck being run in a Modern tournament. This past Tuesday I faced UR Storm, UWR Control, Affinity and fetchless Burn and saw multiple people on Pod and someone on Jund. But other times I've faced Martyr-Proc and Standard aggro decks. So it's really a crap-shoot.
Different FNMs have different power levels. This is obviously not for FNMs where everyone is piloting multi-thousand dollar T1 decks. Nothing Wizards is going to put out at any reasonable price possibly could be. The only thing that could ever make those metagames accessible is something like fetches in a core set.
Why can't wizards do this? What prevents them from doing this? Nothing. They simply choose not to. If wizards wanted to they could print the top 8 decks from Pro Tour BNG and sell them for $20.
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Would Dark Confidant still be good if he punched you in the face for 5 damage a turn?
Different FNMs have different power levels. This is obviously not for FNMs where everyone is piloting multi-thousand dollar T1 decks. Nothing Wizards is going to put out at any reasonable price possibly could be. The only thing that could ever make those metagames accessible is something like fetches in a core set.
Why can't wizards do this? What prevents them from doing this? Nothing. They simply choose not to. If wizards wanted to they could print the top 8 decks from Pro Tour BNG and sell them for $20.
I'm all for lowering prices, but Wizards isn't likely to do anything that extreme, and arguably is correct not to do so. TCGPlayer and SCG would stand to lose a lot of cash if that were to happen, and them holding major events is a lot of what keeps Magic as popular as it is. I'm all for fetchlands seeing a major reprint and such, but printing all their chase cards in one spot is basically exactly the opposite of Wizards' business model, and probably not particularly healthy for the game in the long term.
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*Insert giant block of annoying garbage that no one cares about but you have to scroll past anyway here*
Different FNMs have different power levels. This is obviously not for FNMs where everyone is piloting multi-thousand dollar T1 decks. Nothing Wizards is going to put out at any reasonable price possibly could be. The only thing that could ever make those metagames accessible is something like fetches in a core set.
Why can't wizards do this? What prevents them from doing this? Nothing. They simply choose not to. If wizards wanted to they could print the top 8 decks from Pro Tour BNG and sell them for $20.
I'm all for lowering prices, but Wizards isn't likely to do anything that extreme, and arguably is correct not to do so. TCGPlayer and SCG would stand to lose a lot of cash if that were to happen, and them holding major events is a lot of what keeps Magic as popular as it is. I'm all for fetchlands seeing a major reprint and such, but printing all their chase cards in one spot is basically exactly the opposite of Wizards' business model, and probably not particularly healthy for the game in the long term.
I think some chase cards are too ridiculously priced. In my opinion, Modern should be 30-50% more expensive than Standard. I'd like to see Goyf, Confidant, etc. at around ~$40. I think that's reasonable given that peak Standard mythics cost $30.
For the event deck, they could have printed an entire competitive BW Tokens list for around double MSRP, which is reasonable. My FNM is pretty average in competitiveness. We got a few complete top tier decks running around, while for the most part there are T1 budget lists, where people have subbed out fetches or expensive cards. Even so, bringing an unoptimized T2 deck into our FNM is just asking to get your ass handed to you. I think they should have cut the mythics and just put in Thoughtseize/Shrine. Then the list would've been strong enough to have a good shot at FNM.
I do believe that Event decks should have a solid power level. My LGS owner regularly brings an event deck to FNM to prove that they can stand a chance. He goes 2-2 most of the time, and one time almost won FNM, so Standard generally has it right (not a fan of the recent event decks however).
Different FNMs have different power levels. This is obviously not for FNMs where everyone is piloting multi-thousand dollar T1 decks. Nothing Wizards is going to put out at any reasonable price possibly could be. The only thing that could ever make those metagames accessible is something like fetches in a core set.
Why can't wizards do this? What prevents them from doing this? Nothing. They simply choose not to. If wizards wanted to they could print the top 8 decks from Pro Tour BNG and sell them for $20.
Well except for the part where, short of Magic Online, they don't actually sell product like they've got a retail store chain going on. Hell, they've not been doing that since some time in the mid 00's.
Instead, they'll sell crates of stuff that might be marked at a suggested price of $20-ish, but in reality will be hiked according to the value of the contents within. Buying product isn't about buying the whole thing, it's about buying the money rare(s) and getting a bunch of filler cardboard for "free."
Mind you, I haven't even touched any lines of thought regarding the ethical nature of selling top 8 decks "for $20" (let alone any price); Pay to win, as some might call it.
But I want to keep my observation simple: Wizards can't actually do that marketing plan you suggest because it falls apart as soon as it hits the shelf of a sanctioned game store, and will probably continue to fall flat like that if Wizards doesn't consider reopening their old brick and mortar operation and act as a competitor to the middle-man groups /financerambling
Zealous Persecution is a great card right now against a pod meta. Its a late game combat trick or a t2/3 kill some mana dorks wipe.
Godless Shrines are the easiest to get recently than in the past 10+ years, theres no reason for them to be in the deck- the same line of reasoning holds true for Thoughtseize too.
This is easily upgradeable into a better BW tokens deck, or even into some sort of soul sisters deck. Sisters, pridemate, ascendant is only another $40.
The only better deck they could have built was Gruul aggro, but that would have only proliferated the belief that you need tarmogoyf to make your deck better.
I find Honor of the Pure can be difficult to get your hands on at a local shop. As a useful card in both casual and competitive formats, it's great that they are reprinting it.
It's a solid decklist. My only qualms would be with the not full sets of path to exile and inquistion. There are some suspect inclusions in the list that really just look like fodder. It's a deck that should help to bring players into the format, though. My issue related to this, however, is that all new players entering the format with this will have similar if not the same list. It would have almost been more beneficial if Wizards made 2 or 3 modern event decklists. That being said, I can see how that could be difficult to balance.
I just want to say that many ppl on this forum really just comment withou any actual thought.
There ate too many posts where a complete lack of knowledge of the modern format shows. Modern is not for beginners. Stop saying this deck is for beginners. Stop saying this deck helps ppl get into modern. I came back to mtg in 2012. I drafted and played sealed at least twice a week. I have plenty of cards. Sam Stoddard said modern should be a format where ex standard decks can be competitive with the addition of strong cards from previous sets. That may be true but how does it help when there are not enough copies of the older cards?
This event deck is not solid. It is not 'tightly constricted' and if you seem to think so then show me mtgo daily results where it won. Show me your modern gp results with this sleeved up.
Can you please explain to me how the prices of the listed cards are an entry barrier to magic? To modern, yes, it might be, but how do affect cards that are not even standard-legal (with the exception of mutavault) the entry barrier to limited, casual, or other variations that are all part of magic just like modern is?
I'm sorry, I should've clarified that high prices for decks and cards is a barrier to competitive magic. (Then again, I wasn't expecting semantics nazis...)
I just find it a little sad that you have to shell out half a grand for a single competitive deck(Even more for legacy).
There is also standard, where you have to swap out part of your 100-200 dollar decks every time the format rotates. Then there's edh, which equally expensive, if not more than competitive formats.
I feel like that is a bit of an exaggeration. Sure when rotation hits you are forced to change your deck but that doesn't mean it is going to be costly. Even if it is costly I don't particularly care. I make all the money back with prize money and I know a lot of people who do too. I enjoy magic and I enjoy playing the game and sadly I enjoy buying the latest cards to pimp my deck with.
On topic. I'm thinking of picking one of these up for my lady friend to play with. I already own the Thoughtseize, IOK, and Shrines to toss in there. I've got Brimaz too and I know it isn't close to the same but Pain Seer does the darndest Dark Confidant Impression. So anyway you guys think it would be fairly simple to pimp out and take to Modern night?
Can you please explain to me how the prices of the listed cards are an entry barrier to magic? To modern, yes, it might be, but how do affect cards that are not even standard-legal (with the exception of mutavault) the entry barrier to limited, casual, or other variations that are all part of magic just like modern is?
I'm sorry, I should've clarified that high prices for decks and cards is a barrier to competitive magic. (Then again, I wasn't expecting semantics nazis...)
I just find it a little sad that you have to shell out half a grand for a single competitive deck(Even more for legacy).
There is also standard, where you have to swap out part of your 100-200 dollar decks every time the format rotates. Then there's edh, which equally expensive, if not more than competitive formats.
I feel like that is a bit of an exaggeration. Sure when rotation hits you are forced to change your deck but that doesn't mean it is going to be costly. Even if it is costly I don't particularly care. I make all the money back with prize money and I know a lot of people who do too. I enjoy magic and I enjoy playing the game and sadly I enjoy buying the latest cards to pimp my deck with.
On topic. I'm thinking of picking one of these up for my lady friend to play with. I already own the Thoughtseize, IOK, and Shrines to toss in there. I've got Brimaz too and I know it isn't close to the same but Pain Seer does the darndest Dark Confidant Impression. So anyway you guys think it would be fairly simple to pimp out and take to Modern night?
It wouldnt be as bad as in other decks, assuming you run the 12 discard and 4 path, he should be able to untap more often than in other decks.
So very well put.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Death and Taxes
Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron
Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
Death and Taxes
Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron
Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
I wonder if they'll do alt arts for inquisition or path or something?
edit: hardcore magic players mostly still don't get to the point where they post on forums, so if you thought this introductory product might have been for you....
Not like you could mess with the art of something so flavor-locked as Inquisition of Kozilek.
Funny, I'd say anyone who thinks FNM is full of top-tier decks is out of touch. #anecdotal evidence
My FNM has almost no top-tier decks. We have a bunch of tron, a few affinity, zero twin, zero storm, not a pod in sight. Some Jund. I won last week with Hatebears. My LGS starts modern 2 hours after the Standard FNM (a brilliant idea, IMO), so we get a lot of crossover from that (people dropping, etc). A lot of them just bring their standard deck, or quickly jam a few older cards in to up the power a bit. I think those folks would buy this Event Deck in a heartbeat, and I'm going to suggest it to them. As an experienced Modern player, I realize that this product isn't for me, it's for the crossover players.
But go on...if you think you know Wizards's market demographics better than they do themselves (you know, the giant, multinational gaming corporation), knock yourself out.
Modern: GW Hatebears/midrange, WGU Knightfall/evolution midrange stuff
Standard: nope
Legacy: W Death & Taxes
EDH (not Commander!): W Avacyn, Angel of Hope, GR Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, WGB Anafenza, the Foremost, WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator
My FNMs only contain Tier 1 and 2 decks. Occasionally someone will bring a brew but that is 1 person out of 25. You probably just don't live in a large city.
I'm in Boston and it's largely the same. I'll see the T1 decks but I'll also see brews and the occasional Standard deck being run in a Modern tournament. This past Tuesday I faced UR Storm, UWR Control, Affinity and fetchless Burn and saw multiple people on Pod and someone on Jund. But other times I've faced Martyr-Proc and Standard aggro decks. So it's really a crap-shoot.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Why can't wizards do this? What prevents them from doing this? Nothing. They simply choose not to. If wizards wanted to they could print the top 8 decks from Pro Tour BNG and sell them for $20.
I'm all for lowering prices, but Wizards isn't likely to do anything that extreme, and arguably is correct not to do so. TCGPlayer and SCG would stand to lose a lot of cash if that were to happen, and them holding major events is a lot of what keeps Magic as popular as it is. I'm all for fetchlands seeing a major reprint and such, but printing all their chase cards in one spot is basically exactly the opposite of Wizards' business model, and probably not particularly healthy for the game in the long term.
I think some chase cards are too ridiculously priced. In my opinion, Modern should be 30-50% more expensive than Standard. I'd like to see Goyf, Confidant, etc. at around ~$40. I think that's reasonable given that peak Standard mythics cost $30.
For the event deck, they could have printed an entire competitive BW Tokens list for around double MSRP, which is reasonable. My FNM is pretty average in competitiveness. We got a few complete top tier decks running around, while for the most part there are T1 budget lists, where people have subbed out fetches or expensive cards. Even so, bringing an unoptimized T2 deck into our FNM is just asking to get your ass handed to you. I think they should have cut the mythics and just put in Thoughtseize/Shrine. Then the list would've been strong enough to have a good shot at FNM.
I do believe that Event decks should have a solid power level. My LGS owner regularly brings an event deck to FNM to prove that they can stand a chance. He goes 2-2 most of the time, and one time almost won FNM, so Standard generally has it right (not a fan of the recent event decks however).
Well except for the part where, short of Magic Online, they don't actually sell product like they've got a retail store chain going on. Hell, they've not been doing that since some time in the mid 00's.
Instead, they'll sell crates of stuff that might be marked at a suggested price of $20-ish, but in reality will be hiked according to the value of the contents within. Buying product isn't about buying the whole thing, it's about buying the money rare(s) and getting a bunch of filler cardboard for "free."
Mind you, I haven't even touched any lines of thought regarding the ethical nature of selling top 8 decks "for $20" (let alone any price); Pay to win, as some might call it.
But I want to keep my observation simple: Wizards can't actually do that marketing plan you suggest because it falls apart as soon as it hits the shelf of a sanctioned game store, and will probably continue to fall flat like that if Wizards doesn't consider reopening their old brick and mortar operation and act as a competitor to the middle-man groups /financerambling
Zealous Persecution is a great card right now against a pod meta. Its a late game combat trick or a t2/3 kill some mana dorks wipe.
Godless Shrines are the easiest to get recently than in the past 10+ years, theres no reason for them to be in the deck- the same line of reasoning holds true for Thoughtseize too.
This is easily upgradeable into a better BW tokens deck, or even into some sort of soul sisters deck. Sisters, pridemate, ascendant is only another $40.
The only better deck they could have built was Gruul aggro, but that would have only proliferated the belief that you need tarmogoyf to make your deck better.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
It's a solid decklist. My only qualms would be with the not full sets of path to exile and inquistion. There are some suspect inclusions in the list that really just look like fodder. It's a deck that should help to bring players into the format, though. My issue related to this, however, is that all new players entering the format with this will have similar if not the same list. It would have almost been more beneficial if Wizards made 2 or 3 modern event decklists. That being said, I can see how that could be difficult to balance.
There ate too many posts where a complete lack of knowledge of the modern format shows. Modern is not for beginners. Stop saying this deck is for beginners. Stop saying this deck helps ppl get into modern. I came back to mtg in 2012. I drafted and played sealed at least twice a week. I have plenty of cards. Sam Stoddard said modern should be a format where ex standard decks can be competitive with the addition of strong cards from previous sets. That may be true but how does it help when there are not enough copies of the older cards?
This event deck is not solid. It is not 'tightly constricted' and if you seem to think so then show me mtgo daily results where it won. Show me your modern gp results with this sleeved up.
Death and Taxes
Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron
Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
I feel like that is a bit of an exaggeration. Sure when rotation hits you are forced to change your deck but that doesn't mean it is going to be costly. Even if it is costly I don't particularly care. I make all the money back with prize money and I know a lot of people who do too. I enjoy magic and I enjoy playing the game and sadly I enjoy buying the latest cards to pimp my deck with.
On topic. I'm thinking of picking one of these up for my lady friend to play with. I already own the Thoughtseize, IOK, and Shrines to toss in there. I've got Brimaz too and I know it isn't close to the same but Pain Seer does the darndest Dark Confidant Impression. So anyway you guys think it would be fairly simple to pimp out and take to Modern night?
It wouldnt be as bad as in other decks, assuming you run the 12 discard and 4 path, he should be able to untap more often than in other decks.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Death and Taxes
Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron
Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk