Well...game balance (or their flawed idea of it) may also have something to say with why its not put in a Standard set.
It's not even that. They could print a reprint set and price it whatever they want and they chose to print masters sets at 240 msrp. They could have made them 120 msrp and did slightly bigger runs, but they know they can make money off of the sets from big spenders, so they price them high and prop up the price with a few choice high cost modern or legacy cards.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well...game balance (or their flawed idea of it) may also have something to say with why its not put in a Standard set.
It's not even that. They could print a reprint set and price it whatever they want and they chose to print masters sets at 240 msrp. They could have made them 120 msrp and did slightly bigger runs, but they know they can make money off of the sets from big spenders, so they price them high and prop up the price with a few choice high cost modern or legacy cards.
I just wish Wizards would look at it as 'we don't need fetches to sell a Masters set. we just put a few Jund staples in there and call it good...what could really use the boost?'. Imagine if fetches had been in Amonkhet, it would have gone from a block that left many stores and players resenting Wizards into a hugely successful block that would still be very well regarded, despite the fact that the rest of it would still suck. The problem with fetches in Standard wasn't the fetches, it was having duals with basic subtypes in the same Standard. the same way that Thoughtsieze wasn't a bad thing for Standard, the problem was that mono-black had Gray Merchant and Pack Rat and would have been a monster of a deck without it. Wizards is TERRIBLE at identifying where their real issues are.
tldr, put the blasted fetches in Standard, just be even the tiniest bit smart about it and everything will be fine.
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Sorry, they won't come into standard. They put them into Khans because they wanted the full cycle in Modern, and that was the last chance they had before Origins when they began laying the foundations for a new format.
If they put them into Standard, it kind of blows the new format theory out of the water, and it would be in a core set that rotates after just 1 year. But all signs point to us never seeing fetches in standard again.
Except your argument relies entirely on the speculation of them creating a new format, which has very little proof to actually back it up.
I noted reasons why we won't see fetchlands in Standard anytime soon, but I wouldn't argue we'll never see them again, particularly if the foundation of the argument is a speculative theory to begin with.
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The trouble modern has is the price of the top end. People don't need karn to play modern, but they need karn to play tron and they don't need to play magic, so if someone wants to play tron and can't afford it, that is one less person playing the game.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The trouble modern has is the price of the top end. People don't need karn to play modern, but they need karn to play tron and they don't need to play magic, so if someone wants to play tron and can't afford it, that is one less person playing the game.
Have you been conscious during the last year and a half? I only ask because in that span of time, we've seen four* Masters sets (including Masters 25*) and rhetoric from WotC suggesting that no card is safe from the reprint rampage unless it's on the RL. Karn was last reprinted about 2.5 years ago in MM15 and it wouldn't be surprising if he showed up again in the upcoming Masters set. Exorbitant card prices used to be somewhat of a concern for the format, but that's no longer an issue and doesn't appear like it will be in the foreseeable future based on how the company has been handling reprints and "premium" sets. Modern is arguably the game's most successful format and when you consider Standard block rotations and a shotgun approach to reprints, one could argue it's the game's most affordable competitive format as well; it may now also be the most profitable due to aforementioned reprint policies.
At the end of the day, Magic is a hobby and like almost every other hobby it costs money. Also like other hobbies, there's a learning curve for new players. No Timmy off the street is going to dive straight into Magic with their first deck being Modern Tron. That example is simply not a likely scenario and even if it were, it wouldn't make a significant difference in the game's player base anyway. If a player decides they enjoy the game enough to dump a few hundred dollars into a Modern deck, only to scoff at the price of a single card and walking away from the game, then it's likely they would've quit regardless at some point in time just due to the nature of the secondary market. Like every other format, Modern has its share of issues, but price isn't one that's particularly pressing, especially at this point in time. This thread is basically a testament to that statement; go back a few hundred pages and you'll see a ton comments pertaining to card speculation and long term investment opportunities. Fast forward to now where this thread is relatively dormant save for whenever a new set is released/announced and the occasional discussion re: card x's value. "Investing" in Modern is a thing of the past and cards with high price tags, such as Karn, are valued that way because of player demand and supply; this is normal and labeling it as a problem with the format itself is not only short-sighted, but ultimately pointless. The only other way to alleviate the cost of certain staples would be for WotC to give every new player a grab baggie of Modern staples when they attend their first FNM; an idea so ludicrous and highly unlikely considering the company's glorious reputation as of late for making promo cards that aren't worth the cardboard they're printed on.
Why would printing in a premium-priced and not-standard-level-distribution set bring the price down to where prices got from a standard set rare cycle?
Khans fetches got where they did because they were in a massively-opened set that was able to sell booster boxes on the order of $3 a pack. A $10-a-pack set that doesn't move the volume of a standard set... will not have a comparable effect on the price of fetches. They'll ding down a little, sure. But they'd need to be in a mass-volume nonpremium set like Dominaria to bring prices down to Khans-fetch level.
I think the answer to the "why haven't they reprinted this in a way to drop the price?" is greed. Why print something and bring prices down when they can stick them in a masters set and make tons of money off of people? That's the kind of company we are dealing with: one that is interested in short term gains over long term ones.
Perhaps WotC is a bit afraid of people who would get angry if their Zen fetches lose too much value? The guy I sold a scalding tarns set.. actually had to phone his wife that he's spending that much cash on cardboard. @_@
As much as I like to see Verdant Catacombs that I badly need.. drop in price level to khans fetches... that probably is never happening.
If WotC is more concerned with how people using their *hobby game* as an investment will react than the player base they won’t be enjoying the profits from said hobby game for much longer.
Suffice it to say I think you’ll excite a lot more people and get more player participation when you offer a product that actually encourages engagement instead of treating your consumers like a captive market with subpar intelligence.
They’ve been treating players like fools for a while, that approach is likely to have a diminishing rate of returns.
If both of them get reprinted in the next Masters sets, then chances are their prices will most likely drop by about $20+, then slowly rise back up to about $5-$10 less than their current prices. That's basically what most has happened with most expensive rares in Modern when they've gotten reprinted.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
I'd be stunned if Scapeshift isn't in Masters 25; it has been long overdue for a reprint. Mox Opal is a tricky one, because it's one of those cards that always seems to be teetering on the edge of getting banned. I'd chalk it up as a no go if it were a Modern Masters set about to release, but if it got a reprint in M25, I wouldn't be surprised.
Agree to disagree Spsiegel. My 'blue deck' was useless for a pretty long time after Twin was banned. A ban on Scapeshift would be the exact same thing.
Scapeshift seems pretty far from a deck I'd worry about getting hit with a ban.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I'm pretty confused about the theme of M25. If they respect the name as a celebration of mtg's 25th birthday, then they should reprint the most important magic cards throughout it's history. Then cards like Scapeshift should not make the cut in my opinion.
Thing is they didn't respect that with iconic masters, i mean, you don't get more iconic than lightning bolt and it wasn't included, so the criteria is pretty confusing for me.
If they disregard the theme and go for a reprint set then it should include scapeshift, ravager, bitterblossom, opal, explosives, karn, wurmcoil, batterskull, collonade, clique, hierach, etc.
There's a big question mark for recently reprinted and iconic cards like lili of the veil, snapcaster or goyf. They are among the most important cards in mtg history and the prices have climbed back up there but they were reprinted very recently.
And that's without considering legacy staples or expensive cards outside modern.
This next set is so confusing for me, specially since i opened 2 mm17 lilis and i'm hesitant wether to sell or keep them.
according to mtggolfish the prices stay in their lowest for about 6 months before they start to slowly climb back up, the lowest point is when there's more cards in the market so probably between 2 weeks to 2 months since the release
The trouble modern has is the price of the top end. People don't need karn to play modern, but they need karn to play tron and they don't need to play magic, so if someone wants to play tron and can't afford it, that is one less person playing the game.
Have you been conscious during the last year and a half? I only ask because in that span of time, we've seen four* Masters sets (including Masters 25*) and rhetoric from WotC suggesting that no card is safe from the reprint rampage unless it's on the RL. Karn was last reprinted about 2.5 years ago in MM15 and it wouldn't be surprising if he showed up again in the upcoming Masters set. Exorbitant card prices used to be somewhat of a concern for the format, but that's no longer an issue and doesn't appear like it will be in the foreseeable future based on how the company has been handling reprints and "premium" sets. Modern is arguably the game's most successful format and when you consider Standard block rotations and a shotgun approach to reprints, one could argue it's the game's most affordable competitive format as well; it may now also be the most profitable due to aforementioned reprint policies.
At the end of the day, Magic is a hobby and like almost every other hobby it costs money. Also like other hobbies, there's a learning curve for new players. No Timmy off the street is going to dive straight into Magic with their first deck being Modern Tron. That example is simply not a likely scenario and even if it were, it wouldn't make a significant difference in the game's player base anyway. If a player decides they enjoy the game enough to dump a few hundred dollars into a Modern deck, only to scoff at the price of a single card and walking away from the game, then it's likely they would've quit regardless at some point in time just due to the nature of the secondary market. Like every other format, Modern has its share of issues, but price isn't one that's particularly pressing, especially at this point in time. This thread is basically a testament to that statement; go back a few hundred pages and you'll see a ton comments pertaining to card speculation and long term investment opportunities. Fast forward to now where this thread is relatively dormant save for whenever a new set is released/announced and the occasional discussion re: card x's value. "Investing" in Modern is a thing of the past and cards with high price tags, such as Karn, are valued that way because of player demand and supply; this is normal and labeling it as a problem with the format itself is not only short-sighted, but ultimately pointless. The only other way to alleviate the cost of certain staples would be for WotC to give every new player a grab baggie of Modern staples when they attend their first FNM; an idea so ludicrous and highly unlikely considering the company's glorious reputation as of late for making promo cards that aren't worth the cardboard they're printed on.
People walk away from magic all the time because of the price and volatility of cards on the secondary market. The major exception is the reserved list market, but that is a different beast entirely. The trouble with modern is that the way they reprint cards slowly crumbles the price while not dropping it enough to make it viable to purchase into for a new audience. At least without reprinting it collectors would be interested, but reprinting everything in high priced sets discourages the only audience left outside of super hard core players. The only real reason they are reprinting the cards is to make the money they need to meet their stockholders expectations. You and I aren't really a factor outside of how much money we give the singles sellers to push them into buying more pallets.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
according to mtggolfish the prices stay in their lowest for about 6 months before they start to slowly climb back up, the lowest point is when there's more cards in the market so probably between 2 weeks to 2 months since the release
Ok, thanks for that. Would probably buy the Azusa set on 2nd week of April.
according to mtggolfish the prices stay in their lowest for about 6 months before they start to slowly climb back up, the lowest point is when there's more cards in the market so probably between 2 weeks to 2 months since the release
Ok, thanks for that. Would probably buy the Azusa set on 2nd week of April.
I'm still going back and forth on whether Azusa or the new dinosaur is actually better. Getting to drop two more lands per turn sounds sweet, but then you actually have to draw into those lands to do it and 2 toughness on turn 3 is pretty rough. There was an Azusa Amulet deck at one point floating around, though. Wayward Swordtooth as a 5/5 on turn 3 at least survives bolt and isn't legendary.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Spirits
It's not even that. They could print a reprint set and price it whatever they want and they chose to print masters sets at 240 msrp. They could have made them 120 msrp and did slightly bigger runs, but they know they can make money off of the sets from big spenders, so they price them high and prop up the price with a few choice high cost modern or legacy cards.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well yeah thats true.
Spirits
tldr, put the blasted fetches in Standard, just be even the tiniest bit smart about it and everything will be fine.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Have you been conscious during the last year and a half? I only ask because in that span of time, we've seen four* Masters sets (including Masters 25*) and rhetoric from WotC suggesting that no card is safe from the reprint rampage unless it's on the RL. Karn was last reprinted about 2.5 years ago in MM15 and it wouldn't be surprising if he showed up again in the upcoming Masters set. Exorbitant card prices used to be somewhat of a concern for the format, but that's no longer an issue and doesn't appear like it will be in the foreseeable future based on how the company has been handling reprints and "premium" sets. Modern is arguably the game's most successful format and when you consider Standard block rotations and a shotgun approach to reprints, one could argue it's the game's most affordable competitive format as well; it may now also be the most profitable due to aforementioned reprint policies.
At the end of the day, Magic is a hobby and like almost every other hobby it costs money. Also like other hobbies, there's a learning curve for new players. No Timmy off the street is going to dive straight into Magic with their first deck being Modern Tron. That example is simply not a likely scenario and even if it were, it wouldn't make a significant difference in the game's player base anyway. If a player decides they enjoy the game enough to dump a few hundred dollars into a Modern deck, only to scoff at the price of a single card and walking away from the game, then it's likely they would've quit regardless at some point in time just due to the nature of the secondary market. Like every other format, Modern has its share of issues, but price isn't one that's particularly pressing, especially at this point in time. This thread is basically a testament to that statement; go back a few hundred pages and you'll see a ton comments pertaining to card speculation and long term investment opportunities. Fast forward to now where this thread is relatively dormant save for whenever a new set is released/announced and the occasional discussion re: card x's value. "Investing" in Modern is a thing of the past and cards with high price tags, such as Karn, are valued that way because of player demand and supply; this is normal and labeling it as a problem with the format itself is not only short-sighted, but ultimately pointless. The only other way to alleviate the cost of certain staples would be for WotC to give every new player a grab baggie of Modern staples when they attend their first FNM; an idea so ludicrous and highly unlikely considering the company's glorious reputation as of late for making promo cards that aren't worth the cardboard they're printed on.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Perhaps WotC is a bit afraid of people who would get angry if their Zen fetches lose too much value? The guy I sold a scalding tarns set.. actually had to phone his wife that he's spending that much cash on cardboard. @_@
As much as I like to see Verdant Catacombs that I badly need.. drop in price level to khans fetches... that probably is never happening.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Suffice it to say I think you’ll excite a lot more people and get more player participation when you offer a product that actually encourages engagement instead of treating your consumers like a captive market with subpar intelligence.
They’ve been treating players like fools for a while, that approach is likely to have a diminishing rate of returns.
Also what about Scapeshift
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
If both of them get reprinted in the next Masters sets, then chances are their prices will most likely drop by about $20+, then slowly rise back up to about $5-$10 less than their current prices. That's basically what most has happened with most expensive rares in Modern when they've gotten reprinted.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
I'd be stunned if Scapeshift isn't in Masters 25; it has been long overdue for a reprint. Mox Opal is a tricky one, because it's one of those cards that always seems to be teetering on the edge of getting banned. I'd chalk it up as a no go if it were a Modern Masters set about to release, but if it got a reprint in M25, I wouldn't be surprised.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Spirits
Titanshift literally belongs to no other deck if something like that saw a ban
Scapeshift is a fine deck to buy into. Combo isn't for you if you worry that much about a lynch pin card
I think Scapeshift is due for a reprint soon, I'll be stunned if it isn't
Ensnaring Bridge could be a realistic choice, too
I'd like to see Noble reprinted, so many decks play it. Mox Opal would be nice, but I have no opinion on it's chances.
Spirits
Anyway, I think Scapeshift is a fine card, it could see a reprint. I'd hold off buying into it unless you need it now.
Ponza? lol I dont know, you are right its not relevant anyway. Thats why I didnt buy into Scapeshift thats all.
Spirits
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Thing is they didn't respect that with iconic masters, i mean, you don't get more iconic than lightning bolt and it wasn't included, so the criteria is pretty confusing for me.
If they disregard the theme and go for a reprint set then it should include scapeshift, ravager, bitterblossom, opal, explosives, karn, wurmcoil, batterskull, collonade, clique, hierach, etc.
There's a big question mark for recently reprinted and iconic cards like lili of the veil, snapcaster or goyf. They are among the most important cards in mtg history and the prices have climbed back up there but they were reprinted very recently.
And that's without considering legacy staples or expensive cards outside modern.
This next set is so confusing for me, specially since i opened 2 mm17 lilis and i'm hesitant wether to sell or keep them.
I sort of want to get a playset of the Azusa, because they used the art that I like.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
People walk away from magic all the time because of the price and volatility of cards on the secondary market. The major exception is the reserved list market, but that is a different beast entirely. The trouble with modern is that the way they reprint cards slowly crumbles the price while not dropping it enough to make it viable to purchase into for a new audience. At least without reprinting it collectors would be interested, but reprinting everything in high priced sets discourages the only audience left outside of super hard core players. The only real reason they are reprinting the cards is to make the money they need to meet their stockholders expectations. You and I aren't really a factor outside of how much money we give the singles sellers to push them into buying more pallets.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Ok, thanks for that. Would probably buy the Azusa set on 2nd week of April.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I'm still going back and forth on whether Azusa or the new dinosaur is actually better. Getting to drop two more lands per turn sounds sweet, but then you actually have to draw into those lands to do it and 2 toughness on turn 3 is pretty rough. There was an Azusa Amulet deck at one point floating around, though. Wayward Swordtooth as a 5/5 on turn 3 at least survives bolt and isn't legendary.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread