On-Topic TL;DR: I play Grixis Control and have no desire to go out of my way to speculate on Baral, Chief of Compliance right now. I have no idea what Standard looks like right now, but it could be a serious value piece there.
As a Grixis Control player, I have a very hard time seeing myself pulling our very few threats, limited number of counterspells, or the spot removal that lets us survive turns 1-3 to play Baral, Chief of Compliance. From my personal spell suite, this shaves 1 off of Cryptic and K-Command. That's it. Every other instant and sorcery is colored mana only (Ancestral Vision, Serum Visions, and whatever combination of discard/Dispel/Spell Snare/Countersquall we settle on). I don't see swapping Countersquall over to Negate just so sometimes I can cast it for 1 less on turn 3. Similarly, tapping out turn 2 so I can squeeze out Cyrptic a turn earlier doesn't strike me as something I want to be doing.
Most I've seen lately have moved away from Mana Leak and Remand since Grixis is so slow you usually hit a point where you'd rather have almost anything else in your hand. But with this, maybe some shells will crop up that use more of those, Electrolyze, Logic Knot, etc. and abuse the abilities. But looking at my list and others', these effects just don't scream "Cut Terminates to run me!" If it had flash and I could play it on my own terms after ensuring I can hold mana up, that would absolutely be worth considering. Without it, and with the breakneck speed of Modern right now, it's too little impact for too big a tempo snag, and tempo snags are what kill control decks. (Which is why you don't see Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in most lists, despite being a Snapcaster that also filters your draws and powers up your Delve and you Snapcasters and your K-Commands.)
Fatal Push is preordering right around $5, are people insane? I get it, the card is amazing, every black deck with clues in Standard or fetches in Modern/Legacy will want the playset. a year after it is out of print, it probably will hit that level, barring a reprint in one of the first two MM sets after it rotates, it will absolutely be the most expensive uncommon in Modern history, and before it is even up for a MM set it will hit PtE levels. all of that is fine and good. but while it is in print, that is lunacy. it's an uncommon, in a set with Masterpieces, and two mythics that are completely obscene and most EDH players will want them in foil or Masterpiece. so many of the uncommons are powerful, the rares will be in demand for Standard, and the EV of the box can't pass $100 for long. with the new print runs, it is difficult for rare lands to hold at $5 or more for any length of time. people need to chill, this set will put more Pushes in circulation than Paths are out there. we are talking Bolt numbers, across all printings. they will print the set to oblivion, I can see it holding at $2, maybe even 3 while in print, but certainly no more
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Fatal Push is preordering right around $5, are people insane? I get it, the card is amazing, every black deck with clues in Standard or fetches in Modern/Legacy will want the playset. a year after it is out of print, it probably will hit that level, barring a reprint in one of the first two MM sets after it rotates, it will absolutely be the most expensive uncommon in Modern history, and before it is even up for a MM set it will hit PtE levels. all of that is fine and good. but while it is in print, that is lunacy. it's an uncommon, in a set with Masterpieces, and two mythics that are completely obscene and most EDH players will want them in foil or Masterpiece. so many of the uncommons are powerful, the rares will be in demand for Standard, and the EV of the box can't pass $100 for long. with the new print runs, it is difficult for rare lands to hold at $5 or more for any length of time. people need to chill, this set will put more Pushes in circulation than Paths are out there. we are talking Bolt numbers, across all printings. they will print the set to oblivion, I can see it holding at $2, maybe even 3 while in print, but certainly no more
I pre-order two play sets at $5.00 CAD each. I know it is not cheap, but I can accept it in terms of the power level and I want to try it in my Modern decks as soon as possible.
Never, ever, ever, ever pre-order cards. Prices drop considerably in 99% of cases. And if cards do end up spiking upwards, it's entirely likely your order could be canceled before release. There's a lovely grace period that's usually the best time to buy, and that's between pre-release and the first major tournament (usually the Pro Tour). If you don't care about money and don't mind getting burned a few times, pre-order away. I learned to stop doing that long ago.
While the median price has only gone up about $5, Eternal Masters Jace, the Mind Sculptor went up about $10 low on TCGplayer and ebay over the last week or two, with the FTV 20 foil picking up about the same amount on ebay. Think people are moving on unban speculation, or just a hiccup? I don't think we're seeing Eternal Masters drying up yet, are we?
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WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
While the median price has only gone up about $5, Eternal Masters Jace, the Mind Sculptor went up about $10 low on TCGplayer and ebay over the last week or two, with the FTV 20 foil picking up about the same amount on ebay. Think people are moving on unban speculation, or just a hiccup? I don't think we're seeing Eternal Masters drying up yet, are we?
We're seeing people blindly spec on a card they think will be unbanned in Modern. But honestly, I've lost enough money speccing on possible unbans in the past that I don't think it's worth it. For a $2 Preordain or a $10 SFM? Sure. But a $50-60 JTMS? No thanks.
There are a choice few cards you can spec for pre order. I ordered a playset of Sram, Senior Edificer, and with priority shipping, was still under 10 bucks. Cards like Fatal Push, and Baral on the other hand seem over priced at the moment. Last I check Fatal Push was over 3.50 through CFB, and Baral was over 7. This set will be opened a ton due to the chase Inventions along with people just hoping to open certain powerful cards. 3.50 for an in print uncommon seems crazy.
Edit: As for Devotion cards getting a "push" in price due to FP, I doubt it. While the deck does greatly benefit from turn one removal, I can't see Phyrexian Obliterator benefiting. Obliterator was the go to four drop until Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet came out. Not only is Kalitas generally better, but he is also cheaper. Geralf's Messenger could see a bit of a bump, but not everyone plays him. I do have to say, I'm rather happy so many seem to be thinking of Black Devotion this spoiler season.
I recently acquired SFM and a playset of preordains for the same reason, but @50$, just no. Besides, I think the odds of it getting unbanned are pretty low. You 'd much rather invest on SFM's/Preordains.
I don't think people are heavily speculating on Jace, the Mind Sculptor for that exact reason. If they were, even with the Eternal Masters reprint, I think we'd be seeing more movement.
I personally just traded into a set of 4 FTV 20s to avoid the doomsday scenario of "Jace comes off and I can't play him because I can't afford him any longer," even if it's not likely to happen any time soon. I'm guessing that's the route a lot of people are taking. It's the little stuff like Ancestral Vision and Sword of the Meek/Thopter Foundry that gives the best return if you want to spec, anyways.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Fatal Push is preordering right around $5, are people insane? I get it, the card is amazing, every black deck with clues in Standard or fetches in Modern/Legacy will want the playset. a year after it is out of print, it probably will hit that level, barring a reprint in one of the first two MM sets after it rotates, it will absolutely be the most expensive uncommon in Modern history, and before it is even up for a MM set it will hit PtE levels. all of that is fine and good. but while it is in print, that is lunacy. it's an uncommon, in a set with Masterpieces, and two mythics that are completely obscene and most EDH players will want them in foil or Masterpiece. so many of the uncommons are powerful, the rares will be in demand for Standard, and the EV of the box can't pass $100 for long. with the new print runs, it is difficult for rare lands to hold at $5 or more for any length of time. people need to chill, this set will put more Pushes in circulation than Paths are out there. we are talking Bolt numbers, across all printings. they will print the set to oblivion, I can see it holding at $2, maybe even 3 while in print, but certainly no more
Never, ever, ever, ever pre-order cards. Prices drop considerably in 99% of cases. And if cards do end up spiking upwards, it's entirely likely your order could be canceled before release. There's a lovely grace period that's usually the best time to buy, and that's between pre-release and the first major tournament (usually the Pro Tour). If you don't care about money and don't mind getting burned a few times, pre-order away. I learned to stop doing that long ago.
Preordering is fine, but expect to pay a lot more than you will if you wait a few weeks after the set release. Of course Push at 5$ is way higher than it will be, but some people are willing to pay that price, which is why it costs that much. Supply and demand bro.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I preorder torrential gear hulk for 5 each, Lili for 18 each, flayer for 7 each so I have had some recent luck in the preorder department but it is usually just not a good idea.
I preorder torrential gear hulk for 5 each, Lili for 18 each, flayer for 7 each so I have had some recent luck in the preorder department but it is usually just not a good idea.
And I ordered Jace, Vryn's Prodigy for $10. It CAN be great if a card explodes. But 99% of cards do not explode and people feel really silly for buying stuff like Day's Undoing or Narset Transcendent for pre order prices.
I preorder torrential gear hulk for 5 each, Lili for 18 each, flayer for 7 each so I have had some recent luck in the preorder department but it is usually just not a good idea.
And I ordered Jace, Vryn's Prodigy for $10. It CAN be great if a card explodes. But 99% of cards do not explode and people feel really silly for buying stuff like Day's Undoing or Narset Transcendent for pre order prices.
People were losing their ***** over Narset's spoiler. While people were busy hyping that card up, I bought a playset of Ojutai's for 20 sucks (for standard, of course).
Too bad Narset was a lousy card, the artwork is amazing on that card
IMO fatal push for $5 isn't even THAT ridiculous. It could be one of those uncommons that have a really small print run. Sort of Like Aether Hub. I watched my friends crack 5 boxes of Kaladesh trying to get a masterpiece and they barely had 2 sets of it.
People were buying them at SCG1:1 price. My country's currency exchange rate against the USD is roughly 1.4:1
Fatal push, as the best new removal spell printed in years that is also playable in eternal formats, can definitely sell for at least that much short to mid term and can definitely exceed $10 long term. Also, because of limited format balancing, you might not even see more than 2 a box.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I concede that I could be completely wrong and the box opening results of certain power commons and uncommons that I've seen and been a part of are just the result of weird variance/randomization process. I can only base my previous post off my own experiences.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
If my rudimentary math is mostly accurate, you have a little under 10% chance to get any one common in any one booster pack. Uncommons are about 3.8% for any one uncommon, and rares/mythics are 1.9% and 1.3% respectively. There are nearly as many uncommons as commons (~80 vs ~100), but uncommons make up only 3 slots in a booster pack, as opposed to 10. So any specific uncommon is much less common than people may give credit for, and closer to a rare than it is a common in terms of ubiquity.
As a Grixis Control player, I have a very hard time seeing myself pulling our very few threats, limited number of counterspells, or the spot removal that lets us survive turns 1-3 to play Baral, Chief of Compliance. From my personal spell suite, this shaves 1 off of Cryptic and K-Command. That's it. Every other instant and sorcery is colored mana only (Ancestral Vision, Serum Visions, and whatever combination of discard/Dispel/Spell Snare/Countersquall we settle on). I don't see swapping Countersquall over to Negate just so sometimes I can cast it for 1 less on turn 3. Similarly, tapping out turn 2 so I can squeeze out Cyrptic a turn earlier doesn't strike me as something I want to be doing.
Most I've seen lately have moved away from Mana Leak and Remand since Grixis is so slow you usually hit a point where you'd rather have almost anything else in your hand. But with this, maybe some shells will crop up that use more of those, Electrolyze, Logic Knot, etc. and abuse the abilities. But looking at my list and others', these effects just don't scream "Cut Terminates to run me!" If it had flash and I could play it on my own terms after ensuring I can hold mana up, that would absolutely be worth considering. Without it, and with the breakneck speed of Modern right now, it's too little impact for too big a tempo snag, and tempo snags are what kill control decks. (Which is why you don't see Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in most lists, despite being a Snapcaster that also filters your draws and powers up your Delve and you Snapcasters and your K-Commands.)
But who knows. I've misevaluated cards before.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Also, re Obliterator spiking because of Fatal Push. You know it kills to it too, right?
I pre-order two play sets at $5.00 CAD each. I know it is not cheap, but I can accept it in terms of the power level and I want to try it in my Modern decks as soon as possible.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
We're seeing people blindly spec on a card they think will be unbanned in Modern. But honestly, I've lost enough money speccing on possible unbans in the past that I don't think it's worth it. For a $2 Preordain or a $10 SFM? Sure. But a $50-60 JTMS? No thanks.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I'm looking to buy Fatal Push foils, but some idiot has 1 on tcg for 30 or 40 dollars, hell no
I'm also not speccing on foil SFM's.
Boo.
Edit: As for Devotion cards getting a "push" in price due to FP, I doubt it. While the deck does greatly benefit from turn one removal, I can't see Phyrexian Obliterator benefiting. Obliterator was the go to four drop until Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet came out. Not only is Kalitas generally better, but he is also cheaper. Geralf's Messenger could see a bit of a bump, but not everyone plays him. I do have to say, I'm rather happy so many seem to be thinking of Black Devotion this spoiler season.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
I don't think people are heavily speculating on Jace, the Mind Sculptor for that exact reason. If they were, even with the Eternal Masters reprint, I think we'd be seeing more movement.
I personally just traded into a set of 4 FTV 20s to avoid the doomsday scenario of "Jace comes off and I can't play him because I can't afford him any longer," even if it's not likely to happen any time soon. I'm guessing that's the route a lot of people are taking. It's the little stuff like Ancestral Vision and Sword of the Meek/Thopter Foundry that gives the best return if you want to spec, anyways.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
And I ordered Jace, Vryn's Prodigy for $10. It CAN be great if a card explodes. But 99% of cards do not explode and people feel really silly for buying stuff like Day's Undoing or Narset Transcendent for pre order prices.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I don't think paying 8-10 dollars total for the 'gotta have it now' tax is a big deal.
It's not losing 20+ per card like Chandra.
David Ochoa: "Mono-bacon!..."
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
People were losing their ***** over Narset's spoiler. While people were busy hyping that card up, I bought a playset of Ojutai's for 20 sucks (for standard, of course).
Too bad Narset was a lousy card, the artwork is amazing on that card
People were buying them at SCG1:1 price. My country's currency exchange rate against the USD is roughly 1.4:1
Fatal push, as the best new removal spell printed in years that is also playable in eternal formats, can definitely sell for at least that much short to mid term and can definitely exceed $10 long term. Also, because of limited format balancing, you might not even see more than 2 a box.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate