I seriously doubt the enemy fetchlands will be printed with Eternal Masters, along with a bunch of juicy looking chase cards, it makes no sense, through a financial perspective view. They're going to print it in a standard set and milk the ***** out of it
I think you are correct, a slow drip of what the modern/legacy players want scattered throughout specialty sets like eternal masters and standard sets. No reason to throw it all in at once. It's the smart business decision to keep people buying product and interested in the game and I can't fault WotC for it.
Khans was, on top of being an amazing standard set, a money maker because of the fetchlands
They're not going to print all that in a limited set and make small money, they're going to print that in a standard box that will hopefully outsell Khans
Khans was, on top of being an amazing standard set, a money maker because of the fetchlands
They're not going to print all that in a limited set and make small money, they're going to print that in a standard box that will hopefully outsell Khans
Bingo, but that doesn't stop stupid people from expecting them in every single set and then spiking prices when they aren't printed.
Khans was, on top of being an amazing standard set, a money maker because of the fetchlands
They're not going to print all that in a limited set and make small money, they're going to print that in a standard box that will hopefully outsell Khans
Bingo, but that doesn't stop stupid people from expecting them in every single set and then spiking prices when they aren't printed.
To be frank, Magic has a problem where they print cards that are necessary to play the game competitively on a sporadic basis. They are starting to finally address the problem in standard, but modern is another problem entirely. In modern, we basically need the fetches and shock duals to play a lot of the decks in the competitive forum, as well as some niche lands like Cavern of Souls for tribal decks or Academy Ruins for artifact recursion. I'm still personally hoping that the company will make a meaningful decision and actually get the secondary market prices under control via proper reprinting schedules in products that actually get opened, though that doesn't seem likely.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Khans was, on top of being an amazing standard set, a money maker because of the fetchlands
They're not going to print all that in a limited set and make small money, they're going to print that in a standard box that will hopefully outsell Khans
Bingo, but that doesn't stop stupid people from expecting them in every single set and then spiking prices when they aren't printed.
To be frank, Magic has a problem where they print cards that are necessary to play the game competitively on a sporadic basis. They are starting to finally address the problem in standard, but modern is another problem entirely. In modern, we basically need the fetches and shock duals to play a lot of the decks in the competitive forum, as well as some niche lands like Cavern of Souls for tribal decks or Academy Ruins for artifact recursion. I'm still personally hoping that the company will make a meaningful decision and actually get the secondary market prices under control via proper reprinting schedules in products that actually get opened, though that doesn't seem likely.
But the most needed reprints (lands) HAVE been given to us en masse recently (Ravnica and KTK) - sure, we NOW need the other set of fetches, but the effect that such a major major reprint like either of these have on standard blocks cannot possibly be overstated - it hamstrings the standard environment pretty hard. BFZ standard was atrocious with it's near perfect 4 color manabases and it ultimately pushes OUT more people who want to be competitive because reprints like those make Standard much more prohibitively expensive. I'd rather have Standard be THE competitive entry into magic rather than any of the non-rotating formats because ultimately I think that's what is best for the game as a whole, people buying packs and getting excited about new things. New is the operative word there, for without new cards that push design boundaries and fresh designs the game will stagnate and die. People like the professor who call for high value reprints in modern sets are COMPLETELY missing what that does to the staleness of the game - "Oh sweet, let's check out the new MTG set! Oh, all of the best cards are just reprints from an older set. That's cool I guess." compare to "Holy crap! Collected Company is such a sweet card! Are they serious?!"
As far as thinking about players from the competition standpoint - if you want to be competitive, pay. Period. The serious competitive aspect is for those who are likely to whole heartedly invest in the game without reservation so as to recoup through prizing, so budget concerns are not and should not ever be a factor for the competitive player. If you are NOT a super competitive player, then there are TONS of options for almost every single card in the modern card pool. Don't have money for a perfect fetch/shock manabase? Play checklands, or taplands, or buddy lands, or the BFZ duals, or the new SOI lands. WOTC IS giving players who are more budget minded better options than ever, so even though I would LOVE to buy a playset of Scalding Tarns ASAP, I know that there are either other options available to me OR I can suck it up and buy them if I'm serious - but expecting them to constantly reprint the 'tier 0' versions of cards is fairly unreasonable I think.
With all of that, yes, let's reprint things in non-standard sets. Tons of things. Things like Cursecatcher, Auriok Champion, and Blood Moon. Cards that have little to no business being as expensive as they are. I hope there are TONS of valuable cards in conspiracy and EMA - but I'm going to be reasonable with my expectations. Wizards is NOT going to reprint fetches in EMA, the set will sell like crazy without needing the equity from the Zen fetches, but sadly players don't think clearly and then spike prices when they're let down.
The most important lesson to learn from all of this is still "buy only what's in print, unless it's Modern Masters mythics."
Oh, and "sell during the hype and mass buy-in period that accompanies each Masters release."
I'm going to end up repeating this point like every few pages, I'm sure of it. But it's still worth repeating, because honestly a lot of money can be saved by swimming with the current of the MTG economy, not against it."
Khans was, on top of being an amazing standard set, a money maker because of the fetchlands
They're not going to print all that in a limited set and make small money, they're going to print that in a standard box that will hopefully outsell Khans
Bingo, but that doesn't stop stupid people from expecting them in every single set and then spiking prices when they aren't printed.
To be frank, Magic has a problem where they print cards that are necessary to play the game competitively on a sporadic basis. They are starting to finally address the problem in standard, but modern is another problem entirely. In modern, we basically need the fetches and shock duals to play a lot of the decks in the competitive forum, as well as some niche lands like Cavern of Souls for tribal decks or Academy Ruins for artifact recursion. I'm still personally hoping that the company will make a meaningful decision and actually get the secondary market prices under control via proper reprinting schedules in products that actually get opened, though that doesn't seem likely.
But the most needed reprints (lands) HAVE been given to us en masse recently (Ravnica and KTK) - sure, we NOW need the other set of fetches, but the effect that such a major major reprint like either of these have on standard blocks cannot possibly be overstated - it hamstrings the standard environment pretty hard. BFZ standard was atrocious with it's near perfect 4 color manabases and it ultimately pushes OUT more people who want to be competitive because reprints like those make Standard much more prohibitively expensive. I'd rather have Standard be THE competitive entry into magic rather than any of the non-rotating formats because ultimately I think that's what is best for the game as a whole, people buying packs and getting excited about new things. New is the operative word there, for without new cards that push design boundaries and fresh designs the game will stagnate and die. People like the professor who call for high value reprints in modern sets are COMPLETELY missing what that does to the staleness of the game - "Oh sweet, let's check out the new MTG set! Oh, all of the best cards are just reprints from an older set. That's cool I guess." compare to "Holy crap! Collected Company is such a sweet card! Are they serious?!"
As far as thinking about players from the competition standpoint - if you want to be competitive, pay. Period. The serious competitive aspect is for those who are likely to whole heartedly invest in the game without reservation so as to recoup through prizing, so budget concerns are not and should not ever be a factor for the competitive player. If you are NOT a super competitive player, then there are TONS of options for almost every single card in the modern card pool. Don't have money for a perfect fetch/shock manabase? Play checklands, or taplands, or buddy lands, or the BFZ duals, or the new SOI lands. WOTC IS giving players who are more budget minded better options than ever, so even though I would LOVE to buy a playset of Scalding Tarns ASAP, I know that there are either other options available to me OR I can suck it up and buy them if I'm serious - but expecting them to constantly reprint the 'tier 0' versions of cards is fairly unreasonable I think.
With all of that, yes, let's reprint things in non-standard sets. Tons of things. Things like Cursecatcher, Auriok Champion, and Blood Moon. Cards that have little to no business being as expensive as they are. I hope there are TONS of valuable cards in conspiracy and EMA - but I'm going to be reasonable with my expectations. Wizards is NOT going to reprint fetches in EMA, the set will sell like crazy without needing the equity from the Zen fetches, but sadly players don't think clearly and then spike prices when they're let down.
But all you just did was highlight their reprint policy problem. The cards are in demand because they are needed across the board and the fact that it made standard prohibitively expensive just points out how badly they are handling card supply. They literally have to reprint lands needed for modern play every set to get the cost down, or at least make a statement that every year these cards are going to be printed in full. I'm planning on sending over a few letters to see if I can get an open conversation going on the subject. This forum tends to like to go in circles because no one seems to want to try to talk to wizards themselves.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I do need the chalices right now for my eldrazi deck.. and currently not using the mistys. The only thing stopping me from doing the trade is thjat the rainforests might spike further if they're not printed in EM. Need some opinions on this right now please? >____<
I do need the chalices right now for my eldrazi deck.. and currently not using the mistys. The only thing stopping me from doing the trade is thjat the rainforests might spike further if they're not printed in EM. Need some opinions on this right now please? >____<
You know what the cards are worth. Ask yourself which one you need more? If you read back one page, you'll see that this thread pretty much agrees that Zen fetches won't be reprinted in EM.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Thanks for that. Have now read the previous page. I guess the monetary benefit is probably better if I don't trade... it's just that the chalices are something that I've always wanted.. good sideboard card for infect, burn, and affinity - all of which are present in our area. Will just save money for buying CoTV... if I save diligently enough I could buy one each month. @.@
Over the long term, with all things being equal (equal reprints), fetchlands (especially blue ones) should be more valuable than Chalice. Chalice itself only spiked as hard as it did because of Eldrazi, which is now just a Legacy deck. It was also restricted in Vintage. That means it has niche potential in Modern, slightly higher than niche in Legacy, and you only ever need 1 for Vintage. Fetchlands, though, are the bread and butter of most decks in Modern, Legacy, Vintage, and EDH.
I don't think Chalice reprint is very likely either. It was already reprinted in Modern Masters and I don't think it will be reprinted in this set again.
Could be in eternal masters since legacy likes that card.
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():
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Personally I put a higher value on Modern shocks and fetches than their monetary value would suggest, because I have yet to own a single one that I have not needed in a given year of deck tweaking and brewing. If I traded my Marsh Flats the first time I was going through a spell of not using them I would have been sorry a few months later when I did need them.
One thought that occurred to me is if this person is a good enough friend (and they take as good care of their cards as you do) is to trade them with a verbal promise that if your friend ever wants to trade them off they give you first crack at the trade. You would probably want to offer the same insurance for the chalices to be fair, though either instance wouldn't necessarily be for the same cards. This way you both get to make use of cards that you are not using, but you also get a chance to get Mistys back later down the line. The things you (both) would need to consider is:
If your friend was using all of their Mistys when you are interested in building with them again you would be out of luck.
Your friend would be free to trade them to you later their future value (whatever that may be).
If this person is more casual friend, like a buddy you see at the card shop regularly but don't hang outside of that, then this is probably not a great idea.
This may just generally be a bad idea, as it only occurred to me ten minutes ago and I have not really thought much about it.
Over the long term, with all things being equal (equal reprints), fetchlands (especially blue ones) should be more valuable than Chalice. Chalice itself only spiked as hard as it did because of Eldrazi, which is now just a Legacy deck. It was also restricted in Vintage. That means it has niche potential in Modern, slightly higher than niche in Legacy, and you only ever need 1 for Vintage. Fetchlands, though, are the bread and butter of most decks in Modern, Legacy, Vintage, and EDH.
Personally I put a higher value on Modern shocks and fetches than their monetary value would suggest, because I have yet to own a single one that I have not needed in a given year of deck tweaking and brewing. If I traded my Marsh Flats the first time I was going through a spell of not using them I would have been sorry a few months later when I did need them.
One thought that occurred to me is if this person is a good enough friend (and they take as good care of their cards as you do) is to trade them with a verbal promise that if your friend ever wants to trade them off they give you first crack at the trade. You would probably want to offer the same insurance for the chalices to be fair, though either instance wouldn't necessarily be for the same cards. This way you both get to make use of cards that you are not using, but you also get a chance to get Mistys back later down the line. The things you (both) would need to consider is:
If your friend was using all of their Mistys when you are interested in building with them again you would be out of luck.
Your friend would be free to trade them to you later their future value (whatever that may be).
If this person is more casual friend, like a buddy you see at the card shop regularly but don't hang outside of that, then this is probably not a great idea.
This may just generally be a bad idea, as it only occurred to me ten minutes ago and I have not really thought much about it.
Thanks for the additional thoughts. I've slept on the matter. And decide not to push through with the trade, comments here convince me that the fetch lands are more valuable even if I traded for equal monetary value. anyway, if I just save patiently, the chalices can eventually be bought from SCG one card a month. Oh, and this is a good friend that I've known for years and we playtest modern - during my birthday they are are only 2 mtg friends that came (the rest are friends from the cosplay community). Gave me a blinkmoth nexus as b-day gift.
Personally I put a higher value on Modern shocks and fetches than their monetary value would suggest, because I have yet to own a single one that I have not needed in a given year of deck tweaking and brewing. If I traded my Marsh Flats the first time I was going through a spell of not using them I would have been sorry a few months later when I did need them.
One thought that occurred to me is if this person is a good enough friend (and they take as good care of their cards as you do) is to trade them with a verbal promise that if your friend ever wants to trade them off they give you first crack at the trade. You would probably want to offer the same insurance for the chalices to be fair, though either instance wouldn't necessarily be for the same cards. This way you both get to make use of cards that you are not using, but you also get a chance to get Mistys back later down the line. The things you (both) would need to consider is:
If your friend was using all of their Mistys when you are interested in building with them again you would be out of luck.
Your friend would be free to trade them to you later their future value (whatever that may be).
If this person is more casual friend, like a buddy you see at the card shop regularly but don't hang outside of that, then this is probably not a great idea.
This may just generally be a bad idea, as it only occurred to me ten minutes ago and I have not really thought much about it.
Yeah I've commented to WoTC in a few letters that they need these lands in print on a bi-yearly rotation because in modern they are "the" land needed to make decks run. It's not even a contest comparing these to other options because the format is generally faster than most others. Not to mention the secondary market is increasingly becoming a problem for the company thanks to the games image being tarnished as a game for the overly rich, and this isn't hyperbole. New players literally wont touch this game unless pressured to and most of the time the best I can get them to buy is a commander deck. People who already got their collections started are a bit more open on buying, but they are avoiding these talked about modern lands because the price puts them at odds with more interesting cards like Snapcaster mage and liliana of the veil, which most of the players I talked with seem more willing to shell money for than the lands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You rarely need the playset, these are not out of line.
Delta - $21
Mire - $17
Strand - $18 (terrible art on that, I hate it...)
Even those are not excessive.
Reprints twice a year on Shocks and Fetches? You want them to be pennies?
This is what I don't understand as well. You need like 2 shocks for most decks and fetches were JUST reprinted. NO price is ever going to make everyone happy and that's why these conversations can feel so pointless. Ok, you think it's expensive, and?
You rarely need the playset, these are not out of line.
Delta - $21
Mire - $17
Strand - $18 (terrible art on that, I hate it...)
Even those are not excessive.
Reprints twice a year on Shocks and Fetches? You want them to be pennies?
This is what I don't understand as well. You need like 2 shocks for most decks and fetches were JUST reprinted. NO price is ever going to make everyone happy and that's why these conversations can feel so pointless. Ok, you think it's expensive, and?
I think the bigger point is the Zendikar fetches have spiraled out of control thanks to not being seen in BFZ. What used to be $20-50 before the announcement is now $50-90 for no other reason than not being reprinted in the "return to Zendikar" set. If they're not in Eternal Masters, I fear they will spike again by another 50% or so.
BUT, the Khans fetches do a wonderful job allowing sub-optimal fetches to be used to about 90% of the efficiency of "right" ones, depending on your colors. While I have paper Scalding Tarns, I do not have them on MTGO ($30 ea), but get along just fine between Delta, Mire, and Strand ($5-7 ea).
I think the bigger point is the Zendikar fetches have spiraled out of control thanks to not being seen in BFZ. What used to be $20-50 before the announcement is now $50-90 for no other reason than not being reprinted in the "return to Zendikar" set. If they're not in Eternal Masters, I fear they will spike again by another 50% or so.
BUT, the Khans fetches do a wonderful job allowing sub-optimal fetches to be used to about 90% of the efficiency of "right" ones, depending on your colors. While I have paper Scalding Tarns, I do not have them on MTGO ($30 ea), but get along just fine between Delta, Mire, and Strand ($5-7 ea).
Oh, I definitely get it, I just don't think it's necessary to call for immediate reprints as soon as cards get expensive. The Zen fetches were printed 7 (!!) years ago and 2 of them are the most in demand fetches in modern (Tarn and Verdant), so I don't think it's crazy that they're expensive. Do I hope they print them again soon? Yes. Do I think Wizards 'owes' it to players to constantly keep these at an arbitrary price point? No. If you're going to be competitive, spend money. If you're not trying to play tier one decks in comp REL then use a budget option.
I think the bigger point is the Zendikar fetches have spiraled out of control thanks to not being seen in BFZ. What used to be $20-50 before the announcement is now $50-90 for no other reason than not being reprinted in the "return to Zendikar" set. If they're not in Eternal Masters, I fear they will spike again by another 50% or so.
BUT, the Khans fetches do a wonderful job allowing sub-optimal fetches to be used to about 90% of the efficiency of "right" ones, depending on your colors. While I have paper Scalding Tarns, I do not have them on MTGO ($30 ea), but get along just fine between Delta, Mire, and Strand ($5-7 ea).
Oh, I definitely get it, I just don't think it's necessary to call for immediate reprints as soon as cards get expensive. The Zen fetches were printed 7 (!!) years ago and 2 of them are the most in demand fetches in modern (Tarn and Verdant), so I don't think it's crazy that they're expensive. Do I hope they print them again soon? Yes. Do I think Wizards 'owes' it to players to constantly keep these at an arbitrary price point? No. If you're going to be competitive, spend money. If you're not trying to play tier one decks in comp REL then use a budget option.
I'm kind of curious what would happen if Wizards did something like, "These lands will never be printed in a standard set again, but we will continue to print them regularly in commander and modern/eternal masters" with the zendikar fetches and shock lands, then reduced the rarity to uncommon.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Buying expensive lands is so boring. I don't mind buying stuff like ravager or dark confidant,that stuff is exciting. And Khans fetches have really helped. I'm expecting zen fetches to get reprinted into standard after the new duals rotate out. Oh and if it were me, I would trade the misty for the chalices even if misty might go up again.
I think the bigger point is the Zendikar fetches have spiraled out of control thanks to not being seen in BFZ. What used to be $20-50 before the announcement is now $50-90 for no other reason than not being reprinted in the "return to Zendikar" set. If they're not in Eternal Masters, I fear they will spike again by another 50% or so.
BUT, the Khans fetches do a wonderful job allowing sub-optimal fetches to be used to about 90% of the efficiency of "right" ones, depending on your colors. While I have paper Scalding Tarns, I do not have them on MTGO ($30 ea), but get along just fine between Delta, Mire, and Strand ($5-7 ea).
Oh, I definitely get it, I just don't think it's necessary to call for immediate reprints as soon as cards get expensive. The Zen fetches were printed 7 (!!) years ago and 2 of them are the most in demand fetches in modern (Tarn and Verdant), so I don't think it's crazy that they're expensive. Do I hope they print them again soon? Yes. Do I think Wizards 'owes' it to players to constantly keep these at an arbitrary price point? No. If you're going to be competitive, spend money. If you're not trying to play tier one decks in comp REL then use a budget option.
I'm kind of curious what would happen if Wizards did something like, "These lands will never be printed in a standard set again, but we will continue to print them regularly in commander and modern/eternal masters" with the zendikar fetches and shock lands, then reduced the rarity to uncommon.
There's no need to reduce them to uncommon. When the MM sets are in print the rares plummet, and only go back up slowly once they stop being opened. It's really just the Mythics that don't dip, but even then there are exceptions. Goyf and Bob dipped for a couple weeks after the first MM came out, then skyrocketed.
It's more a matter of players needing to buy at the right time than anything else.
]There's no need to reduce them to uncommon. When the MM sets are in print the rares plummet, and only go back up slowly once they stop being opened. It's really just the Mythics that don't dip, but even then there are exceptions. Goyf and Bob dipped for a couple weeks after the first MM came out, then skyrocketed.
It's more a matter of players needing to buy at the right time than anything else.
Everything in MM2 dipped. Some things are still at their low points and MANY were at low points long enough for enterprising players who needed playsets to get a hold of them.
V Clique, Bitterblossom, Karn, Goyf, Bob, Hierarch (for a long time, now it's up), etc.
I think the bigger point is the Zendikar fetches have spiraled out of control thanks to not being seen in BFZ. What used to be $20-50 before the announcement is now $50-90 for no other reason than not being reprinted in the "return to Zendikar" set. If they're not in Eternal Masters, I fear they will spike again by another 50% or so.
BUT, the Khans fetches do a wonderful job allowing sub-optimal fetches to be used to about 90% of the efficiency of "right" ones, depending on your colors. While I have paper Scalding Tarns, I do not have them on MTGO ($30 ea), but get along just fine between Delta, Mire, and Strand ($5-7 ea).
Oh, I definitely get it, I just don't think it's necessary to call for immediate reprints as soon as cards get expensive. The Zen fetches were printed 7 (!!) years ago and 2 of them are the most in demand fetches in modern (Tarn and Verdant), so I don't think it's crazy that they're expensive. Do I hope they print them again soon? Yes. Do I think Wizards 'owes' it to players to constantly keep these at an arbitrary price point? No. If you're going to be competitive, spend money. If you're not trying to play tier one decks in comp REL then use a budget option.
I'm kind of curious what would happen if Wizards did something like, "These lands will never be printed in a standard set again, but we will continue to print them regularly in commander and modern/eternal masters" with the zendikar fetches and shock lands, then reduced the rarity to uncommon.
There's no need to reduce them to uncommon. When the MM sets are in print the rares plummet, and only go back up slowly once they stop being opened. It's really just the Mythics that don't dip, but even then there are exceptions. Goyf and Bob dipped for a couple weeks after the first MM came out, then skyrocketed.
It's more a matter of players needing to buy at the right time than anything else.
For lands that see use in every major deck there really isn't a point to NOT printing them to make them accessible. Otherwise it's just a barrier of access to the format that people would have to jump through to play the game. The current reprint of kahns fetches helped significantly with the prices, they just need to do the same for the original zen lands. The only trouble with the zen ones is that they are enemy colored, which historically have carried a higher price tag than allied colored lands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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I think you are correct, a slow drip of what the modern/legacy players want scattered throughout specialty sets like eternal masters and standard sets. No reason to throw it all in at once. It's the smart business decision to keep people buying product and interested in the game and I can't fault WotC for it.
Khans was, on top of being an amazing standard set, a money maker because of the fetchlands
They're not going to print all that in a limited set and make small money, they're going to print that in a standard box that will hopefully outsell Khans
Bingo, but that doesn't stop stupid people from expecting them in every single set and then spiking prices when they aren't printed.
To be frank, Magic has a problem where they print cards that are necessary to play the game competitively on a sporadic basis. They are starting to finally address the problem in standard, but modern is another problem entirely. In modern, we basically need the fetches and shock duals to play a lot of the decks in the competitive forum, as well as some niche lands like Cavern of Souls for tribal decks or Academy Ruins for artifact recursion. I'm still personally hoping that the company will make a meaningful decision and actually get the secondary market prices under control via proper reprinting schedules in products that actually get opened, though that doesn't seem likely.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
But the most needed reprints (lands) HAVE been given to us en masse recently (Ravnica and KTK) - sure, we NOW need the other set of fetches, but the effect that such a major major reprint like either of these have on standard blocks cannot possibly be overstated - it hamstrings the standard environment pretty hard. BFZ standard was atrocious with it's near perfect 4 color manabases and it ultimately pushes OUT more people who want to be competitive because reprints like those make Standard much more prohibitively expensive. I'd rather have Standard be THE competitive entry into magic rather than any of the non-rotating formats because ultimately I think that's what is best for the game as a whole, people buying packs and getting excited about new things. New is the operative word there, for without new cards that push design boundaries and fresh designs the game will stagnate and die. People like the professor who call for high value reprints in modern sets are COMPLETELY missing what that does to the staleness of the game - "Oh sweet, let's check out the new MTG set! Oh, all of the best cards are just reprints from an older set. That's cool I guess." compare to "Holy crap! Collected Company is such a sweet card! Are they serious?!"
As far as thinking about players from the competition standpoint - if you want to be competitive, pay. Period. The serious competitive aspect is for those who are likely to whole heartedly invest in the game without reservation so as to recoup through prizing, so budget concerns are not and should not ever be a factor for the competitive player. If you are NOT a super competitive player, then there are TONS of options for almost every single card in the modern card pool. Don't have money for a perfect fetch/shock manabase? Play checklands, or taplands, or buddy lands, or the BFZ duals, or the new SOI lands. WOTC IS giving players who are more budget minded better options than ever, so even though I would LOVE to buy a playset of Scalding Tarns ASAP, I know that there are either other options available to me OR I can suck it up and buy them if I'm serious - but expecting them to constantly reprint the 'tier 0' versions of cards is fairly unreasonable I think.
With all of that, yes, let's reprint things in non-standard sets. Tons of things. Things like Cursecatcher, Auriok Champion, and Blood Moon. Cards that have little to no business being as expensive as they are. I hope there are TONS of valuable cards in conspiracy and EMA - but I'm going to be reasonable with my expectations. Wizards is NOT going to reprint fetches in EMA, the set will sell like crazy without needing the equity from the Zen fetches, but sadly players don't think clearly and then spike prices when they're let down.
Oh, and "sell during the hype and mass buy-in period that accompanies each Masters release."
I'm going to end up repeating this point like every few pages, I'm sure of it. But it's still worth repeating, because honestly a lot of money can be saved by swimming with the current of the MTG economy, not against it."
But all you just did was highlight their reprint policy problem. The cards are in demand because they are needed across the board and the fact that it made standard prohibitively expensive just points out how badly they are handling card supply. They literally have to reprint lands needed for modern play every set to get the cost down, or at least make a statement that every year these cards are going to be printed in full. I'm planning on sending over a few letters to see if I can get an open conversation going on the subject. This forum tends to like to go in circles because no one seems to want to try to talk to wizards themselves.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I do need the chalices right now for my eldrazi deck.. and currently not using the mistys. The only thing stopping me from doing the trade is thjat the rainforests might spike further if they're not printed in EM. Need some opinions on this right now please? >____<
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Thanks for that. Have now read the previous page. I guess the monetary benefit is probably better if I don't trade... it's just that the chalices are something that I've always wanted.. good sideboard card for infect, burn, and affinity - all of which are present in our area. Will just save money for buying CoTV... if I save diligently enough I could buy one each month. @.@
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Could be in eternal masters since legacy likes that card.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
One thought that occurred to me is if this person is a good enough friend (and they take as good care of their cards as you do) is to trade them with a verbal promise that if your friend ever wants to trade them off they give you first crack at the trade. You would probably want to offer the same insurance for the chalices to be fair, though either instance wouldn't necessarily be for the same cards. This way you both get to make use of cards that you are not using, but you also get a chance to get Mistys back later down the line. The things you (both) would need to consider is:
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Thanks for the additional thoughts. I've slept on the matter. And decide not to push through with the trade, comments here convince me that the fetch lands are more valuable even if I traded for equal monetary value. anyway, if I just save patiently, the chalices can eventually be bought from SCG one card a month. Oh, and this is a good friend that I've known for years and we playtest modern - during my birthday they are are only 2 mtg friends that came (the rest are friends from the cosplay community). Gave me a blinkmoth nexus as b-day gift.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Yeah I've commented to WoTC in a few letters that they need these lands in print on a bi-yearly rotation because in modern they are "the" land needed to make decks run. It's not even a contest comparing these to other options because the format is generally faster than most others. Not to mention the secondary market is increasingly becoming a problem for the company thanks to the games image being tarnished as a game for the overly rich, and this isn't hyperbole. New players literally wont touch this game unless pressured to and most of the time the best I can get them to buy is a commander deck. People who already got their collections started are a bit more open on buying, but they are avoiding these talked about modern lands because the price puts them at odds with more interesting cards like Snapcaster mage and liliana of the veil, which most of the players I talked with seem more willing to shell money for than the lands.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Hallowed Fountain - $8
Stomping Ground - $12
Steam Vents - $15
You rarely need the playset, these are not out of line.
Delta - $21
Mire - $17
Strand - $18 (terrible art on that, I hate it...)
Even those are not excessive.
Reprints twice a year on Shocks and Fetches? You want them to be pennies?
Spirits
This is what I don't understand as well. You need like 2 shocks for most decks and fetches were JUST reprinted. NO price is ever going to make everyone happy and that's why these conversations can feel so pointless. Ok, you think it's expensive, and?
I think the bigger point is the Zendikar fetches have spiraled out of control thanks to not being seen in BFZ. What used to be $20-50 before the announcement is now $50-90 for no other reason than not being reprinted in the "return to Zendikar" set. If they're not in Eternal Masters, I fear they will spike again by another 50% or so.
BUT, the Khans fetches do a wonderful job allowing sub-optimal fetches to be used to about 90% of the efficiency of "right" ones, depending on your colors. While I have paper Scalding Tarns, I do not have them on MTGO ($30 ea), but get along just fine between Delta, Mire, and Strand ($5-7 ea).
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Oh, I definitely get it, I just don't think it's necessary to call for immediate reprints as soon as cards get expensive. The Zen fetches were printed 7 (!!) years ago and 2 of them are the most in demand fetches in modern (Tarn and Verdant), so I don't think it's crazy that they're expensive. Do I hope they print them again soon? Yes. Do I think Wizards 'owes' it to players to constantly keep these at an arbitrary price point? No. If you're going to be competitive, spend money. If you're not trying to play tier one decks in comp REL then use a budget option.
I'm kind of curious what would happen if Wizards did something like, "These lands will never be printed in a standard set again, but we will continue to print them regularly in commander and modern/eternal masters" with the zendikar fetches and shock lands, then reduced the rarity to uncommon.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Spirits
It's more a matter of players needing to buy at the right time than anything else.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Everything in MM2 dipped. Some things are still at their low points and MANY were at low points long enough for enterprising players who needed playsets to get a hold of them.
V Clique, Bitterblossom, Karn, Goyf, Bob, Hierarch (for a long time, now it's up), etc.
For lands that see use in every major deck there really isn't a point to NOT printing them to make them accessible. Otherwise it's just a barrier of access to the format that people would have to jump through to play the game. The current reprint of kahns fetches helped significantly with the prices, they just need to do the same for the original zen lands. The only trouble with the zen ones is that they are enemy colored, which historically have carried a higher price tag than allied colored lands.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!