What about pickin up some Ojutai's Command now? they are like 4€ (5$) and can be potential playable on wur control lists, it dont get like cryptic command prices but ...
They won't be playable in WUR Control. You'd have to be running 4 Cryptic Commands and want more 4 mana counterspells for it to even be considered.
Why are they not playable in WUR? They are easier to cast then Cryptics and in most cases you are going to be using the same choices, counter and draw. The only draw back is having that many 4 drop counters in the deck. I can see a 3/2 split.
Cryptic can counter noncreature spells, bouncing a permanent is much more useful than reanimating a creature in a deck with almost no possible targets, and tapping creatures is much more useful than gaining 4 life outside of the Burn matchup. The Tron matchup gets a lot worse without being able to bounce permanents and you can't stall out the game by tapping and drawing to hope to draws answers or lethal burn with Ojutai's Command.
Oh alright then, because on paper Auramancy's are expensive as hell (considering it sees low to none tourney play)
Well, it's one of those cards that just screams "build an echantment deck with me" in EDH (and to a lesser extend, Tiny Leaders). Since it was from Shadowmoor (which wasn't a terribly popular set), I'm not too surprised that it's pretty expensive.
The body does matter, as does the near immediate impact for Bob, even if you do nothing with it. I've ran decks with both Dark Tutelage, and Pain Seer, and proxy with Dark Confidant and the difference is real. 1 mana matters (look at the omg we need 2cmc hard counters for thoughts on that), 1 more turn before getting a card matters, and the body matters.
If that wasnt the case, then Dark Tutelage would be a common, Pain Seer an Uncommon, and Dark Confidant rare. I dont think so. I know he was Rare originally, but the power level is real, and its above those other similar cards.
EDIT: As for Goyf (which is not near as dear to my heart as Confidant, that I covet relentlessly) both the cards you mention cost more mana, have 1 less toughness, and only pump off creatures. Granted they get +1 for each creature, but there are many decks that run very few creatures, and the difference between 2cmc and 3cmc (or 4...) is massive. I note again, that those are also rare, are you saying they are on par with Goyf against the field?
If not mythic rare, when compared to other rares, what?
So you are saying that efficiency should make something a mythic? That obviously isn't true, because otherwise mythics would just be the 15 most playable cards of any set.
Well, I'm arguing from the position that its better than anything comparable, even VERY comparable, and a distinction on that level of power can be made with its rarity.
If you wish to provide another definition of Mythic, please feel free.
Well, I'm arguing from the position that its better than anything comparable, even VERY comparable, and a distinction on that level of power can be made with its rarity.
Well, I'm arguing from the position that its better than anything comparable, even VERY comparable, and a distinction on that level of power can be made with its rarity.
Ok. So because Weave Fate existed in Khans of Tarkir, Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time should have been mythics? Or should Wild Nacatl have been mythic because it was the most aggressive creature in all of Shards of Alara? And why was Monastery Mentor mythic when the much more efficient Young Pyromancer was just an uncommon? I don't think that efficiency making something mythic makes sense.
If you wish to provide another definition of Mythic, please feel free.
Planeswalkers, legendaries, and cards with unique and interesting effects. If efficiency made things mythic, the mythics of Khans of Tarkir would have been Dig Through Time, Treasure Cruise, Siege Rhino, Butcher of the Horde, Mantis Rider, Jeskai Ascendancy, Seeker of the Way, Disdainful Stroke, Sarkhan the Dragonspeaker, Sorin Solemn Visitor, Murderous Cut, Rakshasha Deathdealer, Savage Knuckleblade, Abzan Charm, and Sidisi Brood Tyrant (and that is assuming that you ignore making fetchlands mythics). Mythic rarity isn't determined merely by the card being efficient.
What worth more Kiki Jiki from MM1 or from the vault version?
I dont know what to buy, both has same art but mm1 its mytich from booster and ther other its foil from a limited sealead product ...
Its nice foil from the vault?
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Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
We want the flavor of mythic rare to be something that feels very special and unique. Generally speaking we expect that to mean cards like Planeswalkers, most legends, and epic-feeling creatures and spells. They will not just be a list of each set's most powerful tournament-level cards.
So...by that standard its interesting. Tasigur, the Golden Fang isnt Mythic. This surprised me when I got mine in the mail. Soulfire Grand Master is. I dont know, do they 'push' cards at lower rarity as well just for kicks? DTT is rare as I'm sure you know, but TC is common?
Maybe these rarity's are just arbitrary and a waste of time to discuss?
I certainly dont think its a cut and dry system. Goyf IS special though, and so is Bob. I wouldnt care if everyone had a playset, so I'm not arguing from a collector/speculator point of view either.
With regards to the Mythic debate, WotC changed the definition of what mythic was suppose to be when they moved Goyf, Bob and Clique to it. It honestly means little more than a more scarce card now. Great utility creatures can be mythic, enormous epic spells can be mythic, legendary can be mythic but not necessarily etc. etc. etc. Its WotC's game, they can and do change the rules whenever they see fit.
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
There are mutliple criteria for a card to be Mythic. One very strong indicator is how prevalent WOTC wants the card to be at limited tables. Most of the rest have to do with the card itself - uniqueness, strength of ability, base stats, and more. No world exists wherein WOTC knows of Tarmogoyf's power level and prints it anywhere below Mythic.
Goyf is a stable in every Format where it is allowed, Karn only sees play in fringe decks besides Modern (I don't know, how much he gets played in EDH/Commander and Causal). Thus, the demand is much higher then with Karn. Furthermore, MM1 had the effect that Modern got a ton of new players (almost every Modernstaple got more expensive), which was also one of the reasons why the pricetag exploded on Goyf.
What does this mean for Karn: He will drop. Look at the reprints from MM1 which aren't Goyf, Bob, Clique and Cryptic. All of them dropped in price and are slowly recovering (some exceptions ofc, which spiked earlier then the other rares/mytics).
Conclusion: If you can wait, wait till ~2 month after MM2 comes out, wait. His priced will dropped till then (or 1 month, I can't remember the exact time frame for MM1).
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I'm really thinking about going GR Tron despite the fact that it's not a "T1" deck anymore, because from my - quiet consistent - Cockatrice testing, i just FREAKING LOVE the way it works, even when i lose ; and i wish i could play it as my "main" deck IRL.
However my question is :
With Modern Masters 2 incoming and Karn being printed again, should i wait to buy the playset or not ?
Economic logic would say "More cards to sell, cheaper the card", but a friend of mine told me that when MM1 came out, Goyf went from 50€ to 100€ in week... And it is killing me !
I can't really afford expansive decks, so going Tron is kind of big choice for me as i would have to sell my current main deck (A nice UW Merfolk wich perform quiet well, for the story) so i'll take any wise advice from here.
Thanks !
You should definitely wait when Karn releases in MM2. Take note Karn is NOT getting that stupid new art treatment. Which means there's no better or worse art; there's no comparison. Karn will no doubt go down in price.
The catch is that it depends on when you wanna pull that trigger. Be it when it drops $1, $2, or even down by $10 or more. Personally, I expect Karn to be available for ~$15.
With regards to the Mythic debate, WotC changed the definition of what mythic was suppose to be when they moved Goyf, Bob and Clique to it.
No, they didn't.
1) Wizards said that Mythic cards would not be just the most powerful cards in the set, not that they would never be.
2) MaRo stated plainly that Modern Masters cards would not have the same criteria for rarity as they would if they were reprinted in a Standard set. He said this when talking about Goyf at mythic, and the reason was card power and economic trust (my words). I have not been following the announcements and articles surrounding MM2, but I see no reason why it should be any different than the first. They are already significantly increasing the print-run.
I think a reasonable argument could be made for Goyf at Mythic or Rare (if reprinted in a Standard set), but since that is not going to happen until the Standard metagame is much more powerful, it is pointless to argue about.
I got a nm foil spell snare from dissension a few weeks back for 3 dollars then someone offered me a playset of foil mm ones for it when i was in another area is there a reason for this that i seem to of missed?
You should definitely wait when Karn releases in MM2. Take note Karn is NOT getting that stupid new art treatment. Which means there's no better or worse art; there's no comparison. Karn will no doubt go down in price.
The catch is that it depends on when you wanna pull that trigger. Be it when it drops $1, $2, or even down by $10 or more. Personally, I expect Karn to be available for ~$15.
Your username got me laughing something furious.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
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Cryptic can counter noncreature spells, bouncing a permanent is much more useful than reanimating a creature in a deck with almost no possible targets, and tapping creatures is much more useful than gaining 4 life outside of the Burn matchup. The Tron matchup gets a lot worse without being able to bounce permanents and you can't stall out the game by tapping and drawing to hope to draws answers or lethal burn with Ojutai's Command.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I'd like to buy there....
Playing Modern on MO is much cheaper than paper
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
Well, it's one of those cards that just screams "build an echantment deck with me" in EDH (and to a lesser extend, Tiny Leaders). Since it was from Shadowmoor (which wasn't a terribly popular set), I'm not too surprised that it's pretty expensive.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
So you are saying that efficiency should make something a mythic? That obviously isn't true, because otherwise mythics would just be the 15 most playable cards of any set.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
If you wish to provide another definition of Mythic, please feel free.
Spirits
Spirits
Ok. So because Weave Fate existed in Khans of Tarkir, Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time should have been mythics? Or should Wild Nacatl have been mythic because it was the most aggressive creature in all of Shards of Alara? And why was Monastery Mentor mythic when the much more efficient Young Pyromancer was just an uncommon? I don't think that efficiency making something mythic makes sense.
Planeswalkers, legendaries, and cards with unique and interesting effects. If efficiency made things mythic, the mythics of Khans of Tarkir would have been Dig Through Time, Treasure Cruise, Siege Rhino, Butcher of the Horde, Mantis Rider, Jeskai Ascendancy, Seeker of the Way, Disdainful Stroke, Sarkhan the Dragonspeaker, Sorin Solemn Visitor, Murderous Cut, Rakshasha Deathdealer, Savage Knuckleblade, Abzan Charm, and Sidisi Brood Tyrant (and that is assuming that you ignore making fetchlands mythics). Mythic rarity isn't determined merely by the card being efficient.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I dont know what to buy, both has same art but mm1 its mytich from booster and ther other its foil from a limited sealead product ...
Its nice foil from the vault?
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr334
So...by that standard its interesting. Tasigur, the Golden Fang isnt Mythic. This surprised me when I got mine in the mail. Soulfire Grand Master is. I dont know, do they 'push' cards at lower rarity as well just for kicks? DTT is rare as I'm sure you know, but TC is common?
Maybe these rarity's are just arbitrary and a waste of time to discuss?
I certainly dont think its a cut and dry system. Goyf IS special though, and so is Bob. I wouldnt care if everyone had a playset, so I'm not arguing from a collector/speculator point of view either.
Spirits
Fact remains, though, your statement about Tarmogoyf applies just as much to Lightning Bolt, which has never been printed at a rarity above Common.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
And yes, as what damagecase pointed out. They changed it on the whim, after keyboarddojowarriors like us found holes within that statement.
Basically, "mythicness" is when Wizards feels like it.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Thats why I like CFB's Hit or Myth. They actual discuss if a card feels mythic, instead of just it being a great card or not.
Grand Arbiter
Omnath
Skittles
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Goyf is a stable in every Format where it is allowed, Karn only sees play in fringe decks besides Modern (I don't know, how much he gets played in EDH/Commander and Causal). Thus, the demand is much higher then with Karn. Furthermore, MM1 had the effect that Modern got a ton of new players (almost every Modernstaple got more expensive), which was also one of the reasons why the pricetag exploded on Goyf.
What does this mean for Karn: He will drop. Look at the reprints from MM1 which aren't Goyf, Bob, Clique and Cryptic. All of them dropped in price and are slowly recovering (some exceptions ofc, which spiked earlier then the other rares/mytics).
Conclusion: If you can wait, wait till ~2 month after MM2 comes out, wait. His priced will dropped till then (or 1 month, I can't remember the exact time frame for MM1).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
You should definitely wait when Karn releases in MM2. Take note Karn is NOT getting that stupid new art treatment. Which means there's no better or worse art; there's no comparison. Karn will no doubt go down in price.
The catch is that it depends on when you wanna pull that trigger. Be it when it drops $1, $2, or even down by $10 or more. Personally, I expect Karn to be available for ~$15.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
1) Wizards said that Mythic cards would not be just the most powerful cards in the set, not that they would never be.
2) MaRo stated plainly that Modern Masters cards would not have the same criteria for rarity as they would if they were reprinted in a Standard set. He said this when talking about Goyf at mythic, and the reason was card power and economic trust (my words). I have not been following the announcements and articles surrounding MM2, but I see no reason why it should be any different than the first. They are already significantly increasing the print-run.
I think a reasonable argument could be made for Goyf at Mythic or Rare (if reprinted in a Standard set), but since that is not going to happen until the Standard metagame is much more powerful, it is pointless to argue about.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Your username got me laughing something furious.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG