dont wanna get too much into it in this thread, but i tend to think that both jeskai and UW (especially UW) are decks not really bad against much if anything, but the cost of that flexibility means you arent really good against anything either.
I sort of agree with this. Although it's hard for me to explain in words. Maybe the uwx decks can hold their own against a wide field of decks without being overpowered... is because white has good sideboard cards? White is the home of rest in peace, stony silence, and plenty other cards that are good against certain decks.
I just don't want to feel like my outcomes are largely determined by the pairings board.
colonnade is a card I never picked up and was kicking myself for years, because I remember clearly putting them in the 'basket' of an online store for around £4 each, once upon a time, but thought they were too expensive (hah!).
Mine is worse, the celestial colonnades are right in front of me, in the store binder for 3 dollars EACH. But then I thought it costs 5 to activate, no one is going to play these crap!! Proceeded to buy a playset of stirring wildwood and lavalclaw reaches that are also in that same binder. This is not a joke.
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As for prices.. I would just hope the enemy fetches are reprinted again soon. Marsh Flats is still too high. Need a playset of them for the deck I'm brewing.
I just don't want to feel like my outcomes are largely determined by the pairings board.
so you don't want to play UWx decks yourself because of the feelings they instigate in you personally... but they aren't necessarily objectively bad as a result of your feelings. is that fair? WotC have said more than once that from data, they can see that UW control does very well in the format, ranking it only behind KCI in terms of success in their recent ban/restricted announcement. Yes, that means that right now, the data is there to say it's a more consistently successful deck over time than any other modern deck currently legal in the format. welcome to your control overlords. I'm as clueless as you, in terms of knowing what metrics they use, but they hold all the cards (see what i did there) and have the data that we can't see.
colonnade is a card I never picked up and was kicking myself for years, because I remember clearly putting them in the 'basket' of an online store for around £4 each, once upon a time, but thought they were too expensive (hah!). I guess that's an interesting indicator of what Modern has slowly become without me really registering it. At some point, those scalding tarns I had a bunch of (including foils) and traded away gleefully for janky stuff.... well they got pricey. Kinda makes me wish I just haorded all the cards I owned and accumulated more, but actually if that was the case I probably would never have got my playset of goyfs, cryptics and other staples. hmmm
All I can think of is that they are giving way too much weight and credence to things that simply shouldn't matter. GP Stockholm and Barcelona combined for 8 (EIGHT!) copies of UW/Jeskai Top 8 placements, and were a freak fluke compared to the rest of the year and any other location. There was a double placement at PT M25, which should be an irrelevant result dictated by 6 rounds of Limited and increasingly inbred meta. There were also a handful of placements at Team events, whose results should be equally meaningless for any individual deck. There were otherwise only 3 UWx Top 8 decks (1 each in Vegas, HK, and Prague) among all the rest of the events all year long.
So it goes exactly with my sentiments that they don't ACTUALLY understand what is and is not good in the format; they simply look at data without understanding (or caring to understand) context, and draw conclusions as they see fit. It's somewhere between laziness and incompetence.
The PLAYERS understand its relative strength, and that understanding is plainly visible in the dwindling and declining price of Celestial Colonnade.
As for the second part, I have sold off many things that have later spiked... I got to the point where I simply don't sell anything unless I need to (or it's already expensive and I am predicting a drop soon). The only real exceptions are the high end flip products like Ravnica Mythic Edition and SDCC planeswalkers. Otherwise, I don't really sell anything!
the cynic in me also believes it might push wizards towards the 'direct-to-modern' product, because if value reprints are unsustainable for a higher priced top shelf product; then why not just make entirely new cards pushed for play to ensure a high price point. bam you just got a new piece of reprint fodder down the line. only have to look at cards like true name nemesis and leovold to see what im talking about.
This is something I've actually wanted WotC to do for years now. On paper it's a no-brainer as it'd allow them to kill two birds by giving the format a shot in the arm with a suite of reprints too strong for standard and new cards designed specifically with Modern in mind; it would also obviously be huge for Hasbro's bottom line as they'd finally have a product to reel in Modern players. Anyone who plays Modern or an eternal format knows buying singles is the way to go, however, I think there'd be quite a few folks cracking packs if WotC put out a home-run product containing new cards that would be Modern-legal in addition to reprints. Unlike the Masters line, this sort of product would theoretically fluctuate more like a standard set in the sense that nobody would know the actual estimated value until months later. This definitely seems like something WotC struggled with and it's evident when thinking back to the issues which surrounded each set at the time. Speaking of those....
anyone know if eternal masters had poor quality, or at least poorer than usual? i remember it being before they made those alleged revisions to the printing/coating process.
I can only speak for my own experience, but I drafted a box of EMA when it was released and the bulk cards have been sitting in a storage since. When rifling through my boxes looking for Intruder Alarms, I came across the EMA box and wanted to yak when I saw how bad the curling was. Not privy to how/how many different production locations they had, but I can confirm some percentage of EMA is warped to hell. IIRC, MM17 was when I first started to notice positive changes in card stock.
the cynic in me also believes it might push wizards towards the 'direct-to-modern' product, because if value reprints are unsustainable for a higher priced top shelf product; then why not just make entirely new cards pushed for play to ensure a high price point. bam you just got a new piece of reprint fodder down the line. only have to look at cards like true name nemesis and leovold to see what im talking about.
This is something I've actually wanted WotC to do for years now. On paper it's a no-brainer as it'd allow them to kill two birds by giving the format a shot in the arm with a suite of reprints too strong for standard and new cards designed specifically with Modern in mind; it would also obviously be huge for Hasbro's bottom line as they'd finally have a product to reel in Modern players. Anyone who plays Modern or an eternal format knows buying singles is the way to go, however, I think there'd be quite a few folks cracking packs if WotC put out a home-run product containing new cards that would be Modern-legal in addition to reprints. Unlike the Masters line, this sort of product would theoretically fluctuate more like a standard set in the sense that nobody would know the actual estimated value until months later. This definitely seems like something WotC struggled with and it's evident when thinking back to the issues which surrounded each set at the time. Speaking of those....
the bolded part is the issue. in general i agree with you, and i said similar things in the 'modern-only booster' thread. i do think there is some theoretical product out there that hits the right targets, and im certainly not going to begrudge wizards/hasbro pushing a few rares and mythics to boost its attractiveness - as long as it is in moderation.
i also mentioned i believed that the increased costs of developing the set in contrast with the increased risk involved in targeting a base audience entrenched in singles might leave the idea dead in the water when its pitched to the execs. on the surface it seems simple, but from what ive seen there hasnt been a product that might give them reliable data on how much to print at what price point. emulating masters would be a disaster if some mythic does become a staple in multiple decks overnight. so theyd likely have to hedge with something more than standard boosters but less than masters, and schedule production facilities to be ready to print to demand (at a cost). presumably there would be value reprints as well, which means lower costed packs at print-to-demand could end up putting them between a rock and a hard place.
there is also just the dev cost. Gavin Verhey confirmed this as an obstacle for such a product in the interview he did not too long ago. a lot of man hours for research, design, and testing. i think a lot of people took this as confirmation wizards just wasnt interested or thought it a bad idea. however after watching the interview for myself it sounded like just an acknowledgement that such a product would take time IF it were to happen.
i honestly cant tell if this upcoming product being what we're talking about fits into the timeline or not. it HAD to be in development during the time wizards believed masters was going to continue since they confirmed that the transformation of 'Immortal Masters' into Ultimate Masters was last minute and they actually had TWO MORE masters sets planned for release after it; meaning that reprint outlet still existed when the idea gained traction.
perhaps its still a possibility, and like Ultimate Masters, they just throw in more value to ensure sales. based on hasbros recently released quarterly, im sure wizards is getting plenty of pressure to get more done using less.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I had no idea such a thread existed; I definitely need to check that out!
Every point you mention is valid concern/obstacle. I suppose it's one of those things I'd really like to see happen, but only if it was done right. Unfortunately, any new product will likely flop and fall short if the driving force is attributed to Hasbro pressuring WotC to develop something that will make investors happy. I'm not sure if I could ever see WotC designing an entire set with just Modern in mind; I was thinking more along the lines of including a handful of new "modern-centric" cards in something like BattleBond 2.0, Conspiracy 3, Commander Pre-Cons, etc. If done right, I think WotC could use such a product to introduce some checks and balances to the format. On the other hand, I could definitely see backlash from the player base regardless of the impact any new cards have on the format, positive or negative, simply b/c WotC would in-turn set a precedent within the format for direct interventions in the future. Although I doubt they'd ever go back to it, I'd love to throw it back where all MTG products are released with an updated version of the 'beginner', 'advanced', or 'expert' designations and subsequently let those designations indicate which format(s) the cards for X supplemental product could be played in.
It seems like most players consider last year's Commander decks to be failures taking into account MSRP, perceived value, etc. I'm curious if it would've been the same general sentiment had those C18 cards been considered legal in Modern? I would argue yes, but can also understand why some would say no. You mention the lack of reliable data and that may actually be my biggest concern moving forward; it appears that Hasbro is going all-in on MTGA based on yesterday's investor report and that has made me a bit uneasy about not just the Modern market, but overall health of the format/game in paper. I don't typically jump to conclusions, but the recent rumors surrounding paper tourney coverage coupled with Hasbro's gushing over MTGA haven't given us any reasons not to be concerned. Obviously it's silly to think the paper game could just up and die, but I do wonder whether or not WotC has the personnel/incentive to continue monitoring the data and keeping tabs on the metagame. That's why I think some kind of new support for Modern would go a long way as a good faith effort. UMA essentially proved that players will buy product containing quality reprints and I just hope that whatever method they ultimately choose as a vessel for reprints (potentially new cards) is something well thought out and not just the top 50 Modern cards shoehorned into a series of random supplemental products.
I was on board with the idea of introducing new cards to Modern, but am a lot more apprehensive about it after the Gavin interview. In addition to the possibility of making existing cards and decks irrelevant or redundant (which is a huge bad thing in of itself, IMO), I fear we lack any of the meaningful safety valves in dealing with the broken nonsense likely to spout from this wave addition to the format. We already get some new linear deck broken every couple sets anyway, using just Standard cards. And given WOTC's general incompetence when it comes to Modern, I don't exactly trust them to "help us" by giving us anything meaningful without accidentally breaking things. This is a dev team that, just a few weeks ago, said with a straight face they believe UWx control decks are the next best deck in Modern after KCI. So if this is the same dev team in charge of making these hypothetical new cards, I don't have high hopes for anything that boosts reactive/control/interactive decks whatsoever.
I was on board with the idea of introducing new cards to Modern, but am a lot more apprehensive about it after the Gavin interview. In addition to the possibility of making existing cards and decks irrelevant or redundant (which is a huge bad thing in of itself, IMO), I fear we lack any of the meaningful safety valves in dealing with the broken nonsense likely to spout from this wave addition to the format. We already get some new linear deck broken every couple sets anyway, using just Standard cards. And given WOTC's general incompetence when it comes to Modern, I don't exactly trust them to "help us" by giving us anything meaningful without accidentally breaking things. This is a dev team that, just a few weeks ago, said with a straight face they believe UWx control decks are the next best deck in Modern after KCI. So if this is the same dev team in charge of making these hypothetical new cards, I don't have high hopes for anything that boosts reactive/control/interactive decks whatsoever.
It's sad, because it's true However, if I may ask, what part of the Gavin interview turned you off to the idea? I assumed the whole interview would consist of him avoiding questions, ultimately providing nothing of value, but that was the first time in a long while that I thought maybe not everybody at WotC is completely inept. But then I watched a different interview w/ the Prof on the Mothership's YouTube channel and the two schmucks he talked to re-affirmed my assumptions. Idk if anybody else has already watched it, but for those who haven't, I suggest avoiding it unless you want to watch two smug dip*****s regurgitate prepared responses.
I was on board with the idea of introducing new cards to Modern, but am a lot more apprehensive about it after the Gavin interview. In addition to the possibility of making existing cards and decks irrelevant or redundant (which is a huge bad thing in of itself, IMO), I fear we lack any of the meaningful safety valves in dealing with the broken nonsense likely to spout from this wave addition to the format. We already get some new linear deck broken every couple sets anyway, using just Standard cards. And given WOTC's general incompetence when it comes to Modern, I don't exactly trust them to "help us" by giving us anything meaningful without accidentally breaking things. This is a dev team that, just a few weeks ago, said with a straight face they believe UWx control decks are the next best deck in Modern after KCI. So if this is the same dev team in charge of making these hypothetical new cards, I don't have high hopes for anything that boosts reactive/control/interactive decks whatsoever.
It's sad, because it's true However, if I may ask, what part of the Gavin interview turned you off to the idea? I assumed the whole interview would consist of him avoiding questions, ultimately providing nothing of value, but that was the first time in a long while that I thought maybe not everybody at WotC is completely inept. But then I watched a different interview w/ the Prof on the Mothership's YouTube channel and the two schmucks he talked to re-affirmed my assumptions. Idk if anybody else has already watched it, but for those who haven't, I suggest avoiding it unless you want to watch two smug dip*****s regurgitate prepared responses.
Sorry, I started off with the idea of Gavin mentioning the difficulty of testing in order to make sure things aren't broken, then kind of devolved into complaining about Forsythe saying silly things on Twitter. It's about 3:20am local time and the late night baby feedings can make anyone delirious.
I was on board with the idea of introducing new cards to Modern, but am a lot more apprehensive about it after the Gavin interview. In addition to the possibility of making existing cards and decks irrelevant or redundant (which is a huge bad thing in of itself, IMO), I fear we lack any of the meaningful safety valves in dealing with the broken nonsense likely to spout from this wave addition to the format. We already get some new linear deck broken every couple sets anyway, using just Standard cards. And given WOTC's general incompetence when it comes to Modern, I don't exactly trust them to "help us" by giving us anything meaningful without accidentally breaking things. This is a dev team that, just a few weeks ago, said with a straight face they believe UWx control decks are the next best deck in Modern after KCI. So if this is the same dev team in charge of making these hypothetical new cards, I don't have high hopes for anything that boosts reactive/control/interactive decks whatsoever.
I don't have any "evidence" to refute anything you said, since it's all speculation. But I'd speculate in a slightly different, more optimistic way.
You say that Modern lacks the safety valves to deal with what may be introduced to Modern through non-Standard releases. What's to say the safety valves themselves won't be part of those releases?
You also say that they have a poor track record of releasing broken things into Modern. However, that has always been through the context of Standard. They have never in the history of the format released a card into Modern that wasn't first designed for limited or Standard. Treasure Cruise and Dig were perfectly fine in their Standard format, for instance.
I can't necessarily disagree with you since we have no idea one way or another. But I think it's equally likely that the positives happen as the negatives.
No gp coverage anymore?? What the hell they do? I am so angry about this and I can't believe it. Is it true? Was allways fun for me on some boring weekends and now they cut it? So we see what happens with modern after arena. This is the way they choose and it happens only after some months. What will happen after 2 years with modern? I am frustrated
I can't necessarily disagree with you since we have no idea one way or another. But I think it's equally likely that the positives happen as the negatives.
I guess my view is that we're more likely to get something like Cathartic Reunion and Thought-Knot Seer or some stupid shenanigans enabler instead of say, a playable cantrip or counterspell or buff to midrange decks.
the source of any sort of optimism is just Play Design. without that its hard not to assume that what had happened previously means some additional nonzero chance it will happen again.
so really it comes down to whether you think Play Design could appropriately research, test, and implement for a modern-centric product; which is notably completely new space. Gavin Verhey pretty much confirmed Play Design would be doing most/all the heavy lifting for such a set. So really it would be confirmation of whether or not they know what the hell they are actually doing and can be effective at what is presumably the basis for their existence in the first place.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Quick tip for anyone who's itching to crack some UMA boosters, but also unwilling to pay an exorbitant mark up at the lgs. Stopped into GameStop today for a non-mtg related purchase and walked out with two of the 3 pk blisters. Manager said he wasn't surprised they lasted this long as the only time folks come in for cards are when they're running a sale.
Obviously this won't be the case everywhere, but it's worth peeking you're head in. Package marked $37 but came up $32, presumably due to the GameStop loyalty card discount.
Please stick to only price discussions in this thread and keep any opinions about the format to the State of Modern thread. This is a warning for the whole thread.
I just noticed that the price of Idyllic Tutor has shot through the roof. I was just looking for someone who can tutor the single worship that I use in the deck... and the it seems the bird and that 6 cmc card from theros are the only ones that can do it. Idyllic Tutor seems to be not used much in modern decks, so I guess the reason it's so high is because it was never reprinted?
Yeah this has been one of my peeves. It hasn't really 'shot through the roof' - it's been on a steady gradual climb for years now. It just keeps going up and up even though nobody's actually using it, because it dodged reprint in all of the masters and supplementary sets.
I expect it's one of those cards that'll tank superhard if any new supply ever becomes available.
I believe Face to Face was buying non foil copies of surgical extraction for $40ish at GP Toronto this weekend, didn't realize it was that high now but I guess it's still good and hasn't really been printed much
Yes, was surprised at the rise of surgicals too. Sadly, I sold off my playset too early at around 30 each.
Because I thought surgicals were going to be reprinted at UMA.
And it's worth noting that the budget alternative Extirpate is also on the rise, it was only 4 dollars each early last year, now 7-8 each.
surgical is one of those cards that I've had my two of since they came out and don't pay attention to the price of since I've always been fine with just 2. Part of me wishes I got colonnades this weekend but didn't
Need an opinion on History of Benalia. Would this card's price go down once it rotates from Standard?
Was looking to test in a few of my decks, but the price right now is still too high.
It's a Standard all-star that hasn't really found a serious home anywhere else, a bit of EDH demand won't matter, that card price is going to plummet so hard it kills the dinosaurs all over again.
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
I believe someone mentioned it earlier, but what are everyone's thoughts on Extirpate? I generally try to avoid buying into spikes, but the exception is when there's a very small foil multiplier. Last I checked TCGplayer, the price margins between foils and non were slim; picked up two Planar Chaos foils for $8/ea. Coincidentally, I've noticed the same trend for Surgical Extraction throughout the last few months; I went to list my foil copy on eBay sometime when it was spiking post-UMA and decided against it because foils were being sold for maybe a $5-$10 premium at best. The MM15 card quality isn't anything to write home about, so I could see if it was the case for just that version, but the same has held true for NP foils. Just something I found interesting.
I believe someone mentioned it earlier, but what are everyone's thoughts on Extirpate? I generally try to avoid buying into spikes, but the exception is when there's a very small foil multiplier. Last I checked TCGplayer, the price margins between foils and non were slim; picked up two Planar Chaos foils for $8/ea. Coincidentally, I've noticed the same trend for Surgical Extraction throughout the last few months; I went to list my foil copy on eBay sometime when it was spiking post-UMA and decided against it because foils were being sold for maybe a $5-$10 premium at best. The MM15 card quality isn't anything to write home about, so I could see if it was the case for just that version, but the same has held true for NP foils. Just something I found interesting.
People play Surgical because it's essentially "free" and "colorless". Extirpate is neither of those things. I doubt it will ever gain much traction as the split second clause just isn't relevant enough to offset being free and colorless.
Get em if you want to play with them, but I personally wouldn't spec.
Edit: also, foils may be cheaper because Masters set cards usually have foil prices pushed way down, due to foils in every pack and making them more common. The only time it doesn't seem to affect all foil prices are if other printings have different frame/art/etc.
I sort of agree with this. Although it's hard for me to explain in words. Maybe the uwx decks can hold their own against a wide field of decks without being overpowered... is because white has good sideboard cards? White is the home of rest in peace, stony silence, and plenty other cards that are good against certain decks.
Mine is worse, the celestial colonnades are right in front of me, in the store binder for 3 dollars EACH. But then I thought it costs 5 to activate, no one is going to play these crap!! Proceeded to buy a playset of stirring wildwood and lavalclaw reaches that are also in that same binder. This is not a joke.
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As for prices.. I would just hope the enemy fetches are reprinted again soon. Marsh Flats is still too high. Need a playset of them for the deck I'm brewing.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
All I can think of is that they are giving way too much weight and credence to things that simply shouldn't matter. GP Stockholm and Barcelona combined for 8 (EIGHT!) copies of UW/Jeskai Top 8 placements, and were a freak fluke compared to the rest of the year and any other location. There was a double placement at PT M25, which should be an irrelevant result dictated by 6 rounds of Limited and increasingly inbred meta. There were also a handful of placements at Team events, whose results should be equally meaningless for any individual deck. There were otherwise only 3 UWx Top 8 decks (1 each in Vegas, HK, and Prague) among all the rest of the events all year long.
So it goes exactly with my sentiments that they don't ACTUALLY understand what is and is not good in the format; they simply look at data without understanding (or caring to understand) context, and draw conclusions as they see fit. It's somewhere between laziness and incompetence.
The PLAYERS understand its relative strength, and that understanding is plainly visible in the dwindling and declining price of Celestial Colonnade.
As for the second part, I have sold off many things that have later spiked...
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
This is something I've actually wanted WotC to do for years now. On paper it's a no-brainer as it'd allow them to kill two birds by giving the format a shot in the arm with a suite of reprints too strong for standard and new cards designed specifically with Modern in mind; it would also obviously be huge for Hasbro's bottom line as they'd finally have a product to reel in Modern players. Anyone who plays Modern or an eternal format knows buying singles is the way to go, however, I think there'd be quite a few folks cracking packs if WotC put out a home-run product containing new cards that would be Modern-legal in addition to reprints. Unlike the Masters line, this sort of product would theoretically fluctuate more like a standard set in the sense that nobody would know the actual estimated value until months later. This definitely seems like something WotC struggled with and it's evident when thinking back to the issues which surrounded each set at the time. Speaking of those....
I can only speak for my own experience, but I drafted a box of EMA when it was released and the bulk cards have been sitting in a storage since. When rifling through my boxes looking for Intruder Alarms, I came across the EMA box and wanted to yak when I saw how bad the curling was. Not privy to how/how many different production locations they had, but I can confirm some percentage of EMA is warped to hell. IIRC, MM17 was when I first started to notice positive changes in card stock.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
the bolded part is the issue. in general i agree with you, and i said similar things in the 'modern-only booster' thread. i do think there is some theoretical product out there that hits the right targets, and im certainly not going to begrudge wizards/hasbro pushing a few rares and mythics to boost its attractiveness - as long as it is in moderation.
i also mentioned i believed that the increased costs of developing the set in contrast with the increased risk involved in targeting a base audience entrenched in singles might leave the idea dead in the water when its pitched to the execs. on the surface it seems simple, but from what ive seen there hasnt been a product that might give them reliable data on how much to print at what price point. emulating masters would be a disaster if some mythic does become a staple in multiple decks overnight. so theyd likely have to hedge with something more than standard boosters but less than masters, and schedule production facilities to be ready to print to demand (at a cost). presumably there would be value reprints as well, which means lower costed packs at print-to-demand could end up putting them between a rock and a hard place.
there is also just the dev cost. Gavin Verhey confirmed this as an obstacle for such a product in the interview he did not too long ago. a lot of man hours for research, design, and testing. i think a lot of people took this as confirmation wizards just wasnt interested or thought it a bad idea. however after watching the interview for myself it sounded like just an acknowledgement that such a product would take time IF it were to happen.
i honestly cant tell if this upcoming product being what we're talking about fits into the timeline or not. it HAD to be in development during the time wizards believed masters was going to continue since they confirmed that the transformation of 'Immortal Masters' into Ultimate Masters was last minute and they actually had TWO MORE masters sets planned for release after it; meaning that reprint outlet still existed when the idea gained traction.
perhaps its still a possibility, and like Ultimate Masters, they just throw in more value to ensure sales. based on hasbros recently released quarterly, im sure wizards is getting plenty of pressure to get more done using less.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Every point you mention is valid concern/obstacle. I suppose it's one of those things I'd really like to see happen, but only if it was done right. Unfortunately, any new product will likely flop and fall short if the driving force is attributed to Hasbro pressuring WotC to develop something that will make investors happy. I'm not sure if I could ever see WotC designing an entire set with just Modern in mind; I was thinking more along the lines of including a handful of new "modern-centric" cards in something like BattleBond 2.0, Conspiracy 3, Commander Pre-Cons, etc. If done right, I think WotC could use such a product to introduce some checks and balances to the format. On the other hand, I could definitely see backlash from the player base regardless of the impact any new cards have on the format, positive or negative, simply b/c WotC would in-turn set a precedent within the format for direct interventions in the future. Although I doubt they'd ever go back to it, I'd love to throw it back where all MTG products are released with an updated version of the 'beginner', 'advanced', or 'expert' designations and subsequently let those designations indicate which format(s) the cards for X supplemental product could be played in.
It seems like most players consider last year's Commander decks to be failures taking into account MSRP, perceived value, etc. I'm curious if it would've been the same general sentiment had those C18 cards been considered legal in Modern? I would argue yes, but can also understand why some would say no. You mention the lack of reliable data and that may actually be my biggest concern moving forward; it appears that Hasbro is going all-in on MTGA based on yesterday's investor report and that has made me a bit uneasy about not just the Modern market, but overall health of the format/game in paper. I don't typically jump to conclusions, but the recent rumors surrounding paper tourney coverage coupled with Hasbro's gushing over MTGA haven't given us any reasons not to be concerned. Obviously it's silly to think the paper game could just up and die, but I do wonder whether or not WotC has the personnel/incentive to continue monitoring the data and keeping tabs on the metagame. That's why I think some kind of new support for Modern would go a long way as a good faith effort. UMA essentially proved that players will buy product containing quality reprints and I just hope that whatever method they ultimately choose as a vessel for reprints (potentially new cards) is something well thought out and not just the top 50 Modern cards shoehorned into a series of random supplemental products.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
It's sad, because it's true
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
You say that Modern lacks the safety valves to deal with what may be introduced to Modern through non-Standard releases. What's to say the safety valves themselves won't be part of those releases?
You also say that they have a poor track record of releasing broken things into Modern. However, that has always been through the context of Standard. They have never in the history of the format released a card into Modern that wasn't first designed for limited or Standard. Treasure Cruise and Dig were perfectly fine in their Standard format, for instance.
I can't necessarily disagree with you since we have no idea one way or another. But I think it's equally likely that the positives happen as the negatives.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I guess my view is that we're more likely to get something like Cathartic Reunion and Thought-Knot Seer or some stupid shenanigans enabler instead of say, a playable cantrip or counterspell or buff to midrange decks.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
so really it comes down to whether you think Play Design could appropriately research, test, and implement for a modern-centric product; which is notably completely new space. Gavin Verhey pretty much confirmed Play Design would be doing most/all the heavy lifting for such a set. So really it would be confirmation of whether or not they know what the hell they are actually doing and can be effective at what is presumably the basis for their existence in the first place.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Obviously this won't be the case everywhere, but it's worth peeking you're head in. Package marked $37 but came up $32, presumably due to the GameStop loyalty card discount.
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StaffMTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
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I expect it's one of those cards that'll tank superhard if any new supply ever becomes available.
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StaffBecause I thought surgicals were going to be reprinted at UMA.
And it's worth noting that the budget alternative Extirpate is also on the rise, it was only 4 dollars each early last year, now 7-8 each.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
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StaffWas looking to test in a few of my decks, but the price right now is still too high.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
It's a Standard all-star that hasn't really found a serious home anywhere else, a bit of EDH demand won't matter, that card price is going to plummet so hard it kills the dinosaurs all over again.
For now, just going to order the knight tokens from SCG. Then going to wait for the card to rotate out of standard.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Get em if you want to play with them, but I personally wouldn't spec.
Edit: also, foils may be cheaper because Masters set cards usually have foil prices pushed way down, due to foils in every pack and making them more common. The only time it doesn't seem to affect all foil prices are if other printings have different frame/art/etc.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate