Interesting. Yeah, I've just been following the price trend and been wondering if it managed to find a legitimate foothold in a non-standard format. I'm currently brewing with Tezzeret, Artifice Master, but I'm thinking it'll end up being one of those walkers that look great in theory, but never find the right shell to fit in. In Modern anyway, I think it may have some legs as a niche card in certain Legacy builds; it doesn't appear to be getting much play in Standard at the moment, so I'll probably keep one for EDH and sell my other copies while he's still holding just under the $20 mark.
Latest word from Rudy is that prices of new sealed product is going up 9/1.
Sad, frustrating but not surprising in the least.
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():
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Latest word from Rudy is that prices of new sealed product is going up 9/1.
Sad, frustrating but not surprising in the least.
Combined with the end of WOTC's direct sales program removing a competitor from the market for distributors, I would not be surprised if both WOTC and the distributors raised prices. distributors couldn't because they knew if they passed the direct sales price point they'd just lose the customer. Now that is gone.
Latest word from Rudy is that prices of new sealed product is going up 9/1.
Is that including packs, or just boxes/cases?
99.9% of the time I just get singles anyway, but is this to recover the cost of the better card stock, just inflation type stuff, or milking players?
All product so that includes boxes and packs.
It's definitely not to pay for better card stock. That's already in place such as Japan but WotC is choosing to cut corners.
It's not clear to me whether this is inflation related since he talked quite a bit about WotC raising prices over the years. Increases in increments of 2%.
But Rudy then goes on to talk about how WotC is no longer getting a net profit of $80-some per box through direct sales. So WotC is increasing the costs to capture the lost revenue.
Yep it won't be for better card stock although they may try to claim that. Hasbro overlords are pushing them to become more profitable no doubt.
To my recollection the last time Wizards bumped prices by 2%, prices of packs/fat packs/other product were raised 5% by distributors and retailers. You could get packs for $3.98 and the price raised 5% to 4.18 a pack, far more than the 2% increase by Wizards. Bundle packs went from $41.98 to $43.98 or something like that as well. I'm sure it will be the same this time. Pack prices will probably go from $4.18 at WM to $4.38, bundle packs will probably be $45.98 and so on. I can see distributors passing on the 2% but the greed makes them jack it up 5% for the end user.
How this will effect LGS, I'm guessing all prices will increase and you may not see a lot of stores offering 3 packs for 10 bucks anymore. It will get passed along of course.
How this pertains to Modern prices whether they will see a resulting 2 to 5 percent bump in the secondary market or not we will have to wait and see.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Latest word from Rudy is that prices of new sealed product is going up 9/1.
Is that including packs, or just boxes/cases?
99.9% of the time I just get singles anyway, but is this to recover the cost of the better card stock, just inflation type stuff, or milking players?
Based on what Rudy said in the video, the price increase is a 2% bump across the board for sealed product, but WotC will not be raising the MSRP. So the answer is both yes & no. MSRP of packs/boxes will remain the same, but we all know that MSRP means little when it comes to purchasing sealed product at the consumer level. IMO, the decision essentially means distributors have more influence within the supply chain and smaller LGSs in close proximity to a Target or Walmart are basically SOL. I'm curious to know the number of official distributors, because that influences the narrative quite a bit. If an LGS has multiple distributors with whom they can order from, it may turn out to be less of an issue due to price competition. However, if there are only like 4 distributors total then economics says that's no bueno.
For example, lets say wotc sells boxes to distributors for $50 and then the distributors sell the boxes for $100. The $50 will get increased 2% to $51 but no one is making them pass this cost along; boxes dont have to increase to $101
Why did Eidolon of the Great Revel drop so much in price? Used to be almost a 20 dollar card. Now it's just 4 dollars each.
That is what reprints do. The added supply from Masters 25 dropped the price
Specifically, Eidolon was a case of being in a smaller set while being ubiquitous in burn. Had one print run, held a price of about $9. Then the goblin guide reprint in 2017 happened. Some people bought out eidolon to try to abuse folks like me who looked to burn as a viable deck in terms of price to win ratio. That $20 price tag didn't last very long, but it was $15-16 prior to the masters reprint. since burn hasn't been a top three modern deck and the rest of the cards are in vast supply, all eidolon could do was fall.
Because lily was not reprinted enough yet, the mana base didnt get cheap (and is likely more expensive) because of Hollow One and Mardu Pyro, BBE spiked interest in the deck again, Humans was playing some of Bob, and the deck still has most of the costly staples in the format.
Then on top of that, you have the price memory that will not budge. You would need to see a lot of costly reprints to bring that deck back to reality.
Honestly based on MTGGoldfish numbers, I think the meta is cheaper than its been for some time, there are some affordable decks out there, (sub $1000...I cannot believe thats affordable in my mind..)
Which almost never happens, everyone is expecting the 2% to get passed down from distributors to stores and then to consumers
It will be 2% and then some to the end consumer. Figure 5%. Distributors and or retailers will take advantage and jack up their rates to pad their wallets. LGS will be on a store to store basis but they are going to have to raise prices as well.
Theoretically it shouldn't effect Modern prices but I'm betting we will see a small increase anyway.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Why did Eidolon of the Great Revel drop so much in price? Used to be almost a 20 dollar card. Now it's just 4 dollars each.
That is what reprints do. The added supply from Masters 25 dropped the price
Specifically, Eidolon was a case of being in a smaller set while being ubiquitous in burn. Had one print run, held a price of about $9. Then the goblin guide reprint in 2017 happened. Some people bought out eidolon to try to abuse folks like me who looked to burn as a viable deck in terms of price to win ratio. That $20 price tag didn't last very long, but it was $15-16 prior to the masters reprint. since burn hasn't been a top three modern deck and the rest of the cards are in vast supply, all eidolon could do was fall.
Ok, thanks. I guess that explains it. Don't have a burn deck, so my question is just out of curiosity.
Just one more question. What happened with Saheeli Rai? She's another card that used to be almost 20$ but now also only 4 to 5 dollars each. Saheeli combo did not really work in Modern? Anyway, since her price is now low.. I'm currently building a Saheeli felidar deck for fun.. planning to get a playset of her and felidar when the paycheck comes next month.
my guess for saheeli rai is price memory from its time in standard and subsequently being heralded as the new twin in modern. given that it only now sees play in jeskai copycat and kiki-evolution, which barely qualify as tier 2, it isnt exactly a format staple.
that and the set of cards required to play those decks means you are a stones throw away from what many people would consider more competitive decks; which suppresses saheeli's influence in the format. for example if you are buying into the GWx creature toolbox staples, why not just play counters company or GW value town, both of which have a better pedigree in tournaments. the same goes for the jeskai cards.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
There are other factors for the relatively low price of Saheeli Rai:
- Rotation is in two months, players are dumping standard cards.
- She was high priced due to her combo deck in Standard. Her Modern performance is... mostly fringe. Nahiri, the Harbinger is a similar case, but she saw more success for a while.
- She was printed in Kaladesh. The set of a card is a huge factor to a card's price, which many players tend to ignore. Kaladesh was:
The first set post rotation, which is usually the most drafted/opened one.
A big set. Smaller sets are not drafted alone, and last shorter amount of time, while large sets keep being drafted with smaller sets.
It had inventions, which lower the value of standard cards, and make players more likely to buy packs.
It had a lot of valuable cards: Chandra, Torrential Gearhulk, Fast lands, Smuggler's Copter before it was banned.
Compare Saheeli to Liliana, the Last Hope, which was in a small Summer set (the least opened set in a year) or Collective Brutality from the same set. The set that contains a card is a huge factor.
Saheeli will go up in time, but I doubt she will reach more than $10 in the next few years... unless she is featured in a GP winning deck.
Thanks for the explanations on Saheeli. I guess the nearing of rotation helped lower the cost of the card..
Anyway, I already ordered Saheeli from SCG.
______________________________
Well, since it's a planeswalker is in the topic. There's another walker that I saw a large dip in price... Vraska, Relic Seeker used to be a 30 dollar card... not just 8-9 dollars. I think she's not yet rotating from Standard.. something else must have caused the large price drop.
She only sees play in standard, and she is not in a popular color combination the moment (why go GB when you can run Scarab God in UB?). You have to consider that the power level of standard increases during the year, as more and more sets are added after a rotation (we go from 5 to a maximum of 8). She was popular when there were only 5 sets in standard (Ixalan Standard), when the power level was low and much kinder to a 6CMC planeswalker.
As for her usage, you only see 1 or 2 copies in a deck, mainly in sideboards, and she will never be playable in Modern. If Golgari is busted in the next sets, she might come back up a bit, but she won't be a $15+ card again.
Since Golgari is in Guilds of Ravnica, which is the next set, it would be a safe bet to get a copy now if you intend to play her, but don't try to invest in her, IMHO.
Edit: too many "also", have reworked the sentences.
She only sees play in standard, and she is not in a popular color combination the moment (why go GB when you can run Scarab God in UB?). You have to consider that the power level of standard increases during the year, as more and more sets are added after a rotation (we go from 5 to a maximum of 8). She was popular when there were only 5 sets in standard (Ixalan Standard), when the power level was low and much kinder to a 6CMC planeswalker.
As for her usage, you only see 1 or 2 copies in a deck, mainly in sideboards, and she will never be playable in Modern. If Golgari is busted in the next sets, she might come back up a bit, but she won't be a $15+ card again.
Since Golgari is in Guilds of Ravnica, which is the next set, it would be a safe bet to get a copy now if you intend to play her, but don't try to invest in her, IMHO.
Edit: too many "also", have reworked the sentences.
Ok, thanks for the detailed explanation on that. Not intending to put Vraska in the main deck, but she might be a useful sideboard card someday. I actually already have pirate and treasure tokens bought in advance... but was not able to buy a Vraska because she climbed to 30. Now that she's at 8, gonna buy one next month with store credit at SCG. ^__^
MSRP is the manufacturers suggested retail price. It says nothing about distributor pricing.
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():
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Sad, frustrating but not surprising in the least.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Combined with the end of WOTC's direct sales program removing a competitor from the market for distributors, I would not be surprised if both WOTC and the distributors raised prices. distributors couldn't because they knew if they passed the direct sales price point they'd just lose the customer. Now that is gone.
Is that including packs, or just boxes/cases?
99.9% of the time I just get singles anyway, but is this to recover the cost of the better card stock, just inflation type stuff, or milking players?
Spirits
All product so that includes boxes and packs.
It's definitely not to pay for better card stock. That's already in place such as Japan but WotC is choosing to cut corners.
It's not clear to me whether this is inflation related since he talked quite a bit about WotC raising prices over the years. Increases in increments of 2%.
But Rudy then goes on to talk about how WotC is no longer getting a net profit of $80-some per box through direct sales. So WotC is increasing the costs to capture the lost revenue.
To my recollection the last time Wizards bumped prices by 2%, prices of packs/fat packs/other product were raised 5% by distributors and retailers. You could get packs for $3.98 and the price raised 5% to 4.18 a pack, far more than the 2% increase by Wizards. Bundle packs went from $41.98 to $43.98 or something like that as well. I'm sure it will be the same this time. Pack prices will probably go from $4.18 at WM to $4.38, bundle packs will probably be $45.98 and so on. I can see distributors passing on the 2% but the greed makes them jack it up 5% for the end user.
How this will effect LGS, I'm guessing all prices will increase and you may not see a lot of stores offering 3 packs for 10 bucks anymore. It will get passed along of course.
How this pertains to Modern prices whether they will see a resulting 2 to 5 percent bump in the secondary market or not we will have to wait and see.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Why did Eidolon of the Great Revel drop so much in price? Used to be almost a 20 dollar card. Now it's just 4 dollars each.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Based on what Rudy said in the video, the price increase is a 2% bump across the board for sealed product, but WotC will not be raising the MSRP. So the answer is both yes & no. MSRP of packs/boxes will remain the same, but we all know that MSRP means little when it comes to purchasing sealed product at the consumer level. IMO, the decision essentially means distributors have more influence within the supply chain and smaller LGSs in close proximity to a Target or Walmart are basically SOL. I'm curious to know the number of official distributors, because that influences the narrative quite a bit. If an LGS has multiple distributors with whom they can order from, it may turn out to be less of an issue due to price competition. However, if there are only like 4 distributors total then economics says that's no bueno.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Specifically, Eidolon was a case of being in a smaller set while being ubiquitous in burn. Had one print run, held a price of about $9. Then the goblin guide reprint in 2017 happened. Some people bought out eidolon to try to abuse folks like me who looked to burn as a viable deck in terms of price to win ratio. That $20 price tag didn't last very long, but it was $15-16 prior to the masters reprint. since burn hasn't been a top three modern deck and the rest of the cards are in vast supply, all eidolon could do was fall.
Because lily was not reprinted enough yet, the mana base didnt get cheap (and is likely more expensive) because of Hollow One and Mardu Pyro, BBE spiked interest in the deck again, Humans was playing some of Bob, and the deck still has most of the costly staples in the format.
Then on top of that, you have the price memory that will not budge. You would need to see a lot of costly reprints to bring that deck back to reality.
Honestly based on MTGGoldfish numbers, I think the meta is cheaper than its been for some time, there are some affordable decks out there, (sub $1000...I cannot believe thats affordable in my mind..)
Spirits
It will be 2% and then some to the end consumer. Figure 5%. Distributors and or retailers will take advantage and jack up their rates to pad their wallets. LGS will be on a store to store basis but they are going to have to raise prices as well.
Theoretically it shouldn't effect Modern prices but I'm betting we will see a small increase anyway.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Ok, thanks. I guess that explains it. Don't have a burn deck, so my question is just out of curiosity.
Just one more question. What happened with Saheeli Rai? She's another card that used to be almost 20$ but now also only 4 to 5 dollars each. Saheeli combo did not really work in Modern? Anyway, since her price is now low.. I'm currently building a Saheeli felidar deck for fun.. planning to get a playset of her and felidar when the paycheck comes next month.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
that and the set of cards required to play those decks means you are a stones throw away from what many people would consider more competitive decks; which suppresses saheeli's influence in the format. for example if you are buying into the GWx creature toolbox staples, why not just play counters company or GW value town, both of which have a better pedigree in tournaments. the same goes for the jeskai cards.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)- Rotation is in two months, players are dumping standard cards.
- She was high priced due to her combo deck in Standard. Her Modern performance is... mostly fringe. Nahiri, the Harbinger is a similar case, but she saw more success for a while.
- She was printed in Kaladesh. The set of a card is a huge factor to a card's price, which many players tend to ignore. Kaladesh was:
Compare Saheeli to Liliana, the Last Hope, which was in a small Summer set (the least opened set in a year) or Collective Brutality from the same set. The set that contains a card is a huge factor.
Saheeli will go up in time, but I doubt she will reach more than $10 in the next few years... unless she is featured in a GP winning deck.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Anyway, I already ordered Saheeli from SCG.
______________________________
Well, since it's a planeswalker is in the topic. There's another walker that I saw a large dip in price... Vraska, Relic Seeker used to be a 30 dollar card... not just 8-9 dollars. I think she's not yet rotating from Standard.. something else must have caused the large price drop.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
As for her usage, you only see 1 or 2 copies in a deck, mainly in sideboards, and she will never be playable in Modern. If Golgari is busted in the next sets, she might come back up a bit, but she won't be a $15+ card again.
Since Golgari is in Guilds of Ravnica, which is the next set, it would be a safe bet to get a copy now if you intend to play her, but don't try to invest in her, IMHO.
Edit: too many "also", have reworked the sentences.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
*Note to WOTC, please produce the next masters set with some sort of colorless/artifact subtheme*
Ok, thanks for the detailed explanation on that. Not intending to put Vraska in the main deck, but she might be a useful sideboard card someday. I actually already have pirate and treasure tokens bought in advance... but was not able to buy a Vraska because she climbed to 30. Now that she's at 8, gonna buy one next month with store credit at SCG. ^__^
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!