MTG Salvation

Quote from tronix »

uwr cant beat bogles without it. pffft. give me a hit of whatever youre smokin

How so? One Engineered Explosives or 1 Blessed Alliance that are drawn every games 2 and 3 and the Bogles player scoops with another Bogle and double Ethereal Armor still in hand?

Lightning Bolt is innately a bad card when your opponent used 1 attack step to gain 3-6 life.

Quote from FoodChainGoblins »

Quote from tronix »

uwr cant beat bogles without it. pffft. give me a hit of whatever youre smokin

How so? One Engineered Explosives or 1 Blessed Alliance that are drawn every games 2 and 3 and the Bogles player scoops with another Bogle and double Ethereal Armor still in hand?

Lightning Bolt is innately a bad card when your opponent used 1 attack step to gain 3-6 life.

besides the 3-4 sweepers, counter magic, and enchantment removal?

runed halo is good against boggles for sure. but i guarantee you UWx is not running it specifically with that matchup in mind. runed halo was being run long before boggles relatively recent resurgence.

I'm pretty sure that we're going to have to just agree to disagree, but sweepers are insulated against with 7 main board Umbras (4 Spider/3 Hyena). Countermagic does next to nothing against a 1 mana Aura. I will admit that the occasional Spell Snare can be annoying and delay lethal by 2-3 turns, but it happens rarely. Enchantment removal? I have to look that one up because I didn't know Jeskai had it. I see a list by Ben Nikolich that runs 2 D Sphere and 1 Wear/Tear in the SB. I hardly see those being quick enough or strong enough, although I realize that a Tear on a single Umbra into Supreme Verdict can be rough for the Bogles player if he doesn't kill quickly.

I think the disconnect in our matchup analysis comes from the fact that when I've played UWR players, I've been the better player. When you've played Bogles players, you've been the better player. I don't deny that many Bogles players are super new or not the best quality. Have you played against a Bogles player like Dan Ward? But then again, you yourself said that Bogles takes next to 0 play skill, so this disconnect should not exist in your mind anyway.

Anecdotal, but UWR is the only deck I've beaten in the past when I've been stuck on 1 land the whole game. I won like this twice. It has influenced my beliefs on the matchup, along with the sheer number of times I've beaten UWR with Bogles. Nahiri was tougher because it exiles Enchantments, but still really good. The purest Counterburn deck will not do well vs. Bogles.

More anecdotal evidence - my most memorable loss to UWR came at a PPTQ at 5-0 in Round 6. When you are X-0 in these tournaments, you expect players to have drawn well and to be a solid player at worst. V

1. In game 1, I shocked myself to 18 on turn 1 to play Temple Garden/Slippery Bogle. I got him to lethal with 1 card in his hand. He ended up chaining 7 Cryptic Command (yes, I was looking forward to Rest in Peace after SB) into lethal burn. He did 18 points of burn, yes 3 X 6 to kill me before a Bogle that kept getting tapped would swing for approximately 100,000 damage.

2. I win game 2.

3. He wins the last game by chaining 5 Cryptic Commands on me (darn Rest in Peace didn't come up!) to burn me out again. In this game, he didn't do it with his last card in hand each time, but still it hurt nonetheless, considering winning this one and the next round would allow me to double ID into the top 8. Instead, he had that opportunity, but somehow I didn't end up seeing him in the top 8. THAT right there was literally the first time I'd ever lost to UWR.

yeah i lose to boggles all the time, and also win a good amount. i was only taking issue with runed halo being targetted tech. its like saying jeskai runs EE because they cant beat boggles. while there is technically some truth there, it glosses over EE being one of the most flexible sideboard cards in the format.

i expect runed halo will be a staple sideboard option for UWx fo the foreseeable future. it lost some equity since it doesnt help protect jace. either way though the price tag is way too high for what it is doing, so the only place i see it going is down.

Runed Halo is probably more "targeted tech" for Titanshift than Bogles, lol.

Am I the only one here collecting Masterpieces?

Quote from Daeyel »

Am I the only one here collecting Masterpieces?

Probably not considering price jumps. There is usually a movement like this on post RTR stuff when multiple people hop into buying the cards.

Quote from Daeyel »

Am I the only one here collecting Masterpieces?

I haven't bothered with the BFZ ones since the prices were already high when I started to pay attention but I have a couple sets of all of the inventions now. Some of the invocations as well but the market's been pretty luke warm on them.

Any thoughts on the price trajectory of Vendillion Clique? I am looking to get a Morningtide foil, but with the reprint in 25, I wasn't too sure if now would be a good time. I am hoping to pick up the card for around 75 rather than the 90/100 dollar price tag currently.

M25 prices have either bottomed or are just about there. Things are only going to start creeping up from here

Quote from Ratrek »

M25 prices have either bottomed or are just about there. Things are only going to start creeping up from here

I'm not sold on that sentiment. Despite being rumors, supposedly WotC is sitting on a considerable amount of sealed product that distributors didn't want to take on post-IMA and I wouldn't be the slightest surprised if this were true. IMO, this set is far from its bottom; even IMA bottomed out around ~130-140 a box at its all-time low and that was arguably the shiniest of the two turds. I'm buying into Rishadan Ports below $20 & filter lands at $5-$6 a pop since they really can't go lower than that IMO, but otherwise I'm not touching the set. A "second wave" ala EMA would just decimate the market value of those cards, especially since it's a strictly worse set than EMA to begin with.


As far as masterpieces/lottery cards go, I'm not too crazy about them. I bought a few miscellaneous ones that were either underpriced imo or based on their respective pack-foil counterpart's price (filter lands, chain lightning, counterbalance, entomb, etc). However, if I have say $200 to spend on cards, which I don't intend to play with, then I'd rather spend it on Revised duals or Urza's RL foils. Some of the lottery cards are pretty neat, but WotC could literally reprint the exact same ones except with different set symbols in any future standard set if they wanted to. They cannot reprint any of my Tropical Islands, however.

while they could technically reprint masterpieces, i think the likelihood is close enough to zero to be the same thing. not only are the card frames tied thematically to the set, but they have no reason to reprint the masterpieces specifically. they would either reprint the cards with normal card frames, or expand the masterpiece set with a new card boarder that matches the set.

there is also the possibility of them being reprinted in the event that wotc revisits the planes that the masterpieces are from, but i find that extremely unlikely for the foreseeable future.

Regardless of how likely or unlikely it is to happen, the fact still remains that it's possible. I think you also reach a point where they can only grow so much in value, because they're just good-looking (in most cases) versions of cards that can be reprinted and they will only be worth as much as someone is willing to pay for a shinier version of a card that they can get much cheaper in a different edition. There's nothing wrong with collecting the lottery cards if you enjoy the art style and want something unique, but IMO it's foolish to put a bunch of money into them hoping for a ROI when there are still certain duals below the $100 mark.

fair points. reserved list items, especially power 9, are the safest bets for pure collector value. however i still think masterpieces are lower risk than their regularly printed counterparts. add on that a good portion of them see more regular play across formats and it makes it more likely for there to be an actual existing market of players looking to pay a premium for aspects removed from functionality like art or foiling. i cant imagine the market for non-played reserved list cards being that extensive, which can lower a cards trade value even if the price itself remains high.

there is also value in collecting a completed set, which it looks like some people are trying to do.

Damping Sphere is uncommon. Some pressure on my wallet is relieved. Time to get some foils on the cheap if any.

Quote from LennX »

Damping Sphere is uncommon. Some pressure on my wallet is relieved. Time to get some foils on the cheap if any.

Foils like this always start in the $15-20 range unfortunately. It is always tough nowadays to speculate on foil uncommons. It used to be easy peasy probably around 10 years ago and has gotten exponentially tougher.

I've been noticing that Green Sun's Zenith MBS foils have been drying up. It seems that some stores are also drying up a little bit or at least don't have as much stock as I'd think of GSZ, MBS in particular. Are people speculating on an unban some time soon? Because usually people don't speculate so far away from a possible unban, of which I personally feel that GSZ is a year away, at the VERY LEAST.

Just for funnsies, what's the next card to cross the $100 mark?

cavern

Quote from FoodChainGoblins »

Quote from LennX »

Damping Sphere is uncommon. Some pressure on my wallet is relieved. Time to get some foils on the cheap if any.

Foils like this always start in the $15-20 range unfortunately. It is always tough nowadays to speculate on foil uncommons. It used to be easy peasy probably around 10 years ago and has gotten exponentially tougher.

I've been noticing that Green Sun's Zenith MBS foils have been drying up. It seems that some stores are also drying up a little bit or at least don't have as much stock as I'd think of GSZ, MBS in particular. Are people speculating on an unban some time soon? Because usually people don't speculate so far away from a possible unban, of which I personally feel that GSZ is a year away, at the VERY LEAST.

I personally picked up a set a couple few weeks ago just in case. They're not prohibitively expensive and I've been wanting to build Legacy Aluren anyway, so it seemed like as good a time as any.

I lagged on them like crazy, but luckily for me, I found 2 online and 2 at my LGS.

I just felt, perhaps even wrongly so, that when I was searching, it seemed to point to less stock than I thought of Green Sun's Zenith.

Quote from Darkdeathscythe »

Any thoughts on the price trajectory of Vendillion Clique? I am looking to get a Morningtide foil, but with the reprint in 25, I wasn't too sure if now would be a good time. I am hoping to pick up the card for around 75 rather than the 90/100 dollar price tag currently.

To loop back around to this question, original printing foils are notorious for their price stickiness. Morningtide foils have been on a downward trajectory after being bought out around M15, but a simple meta shift (Modern or Legacy) could send them up to the $200 range easily, and reprints aren't likely to deflate them. (The current trend is probably more price correction than reprint-related, since it's never dipped around reprint time.) So you may be able to save a few bucks by waiting a couple months, but my suspicion is that their floor isn't much below their current value because of the original+foil deal.

When is feasibly the next time Blackcleave Cliffs could be reprinted? Because I need/want 4, and trying to decide if I wait or bite the bullet. They're about 50 as of right now.

And I would also add that hopefully, enemy fetchlands would be reprinted this year in Standard to really drop their prices... yeah, I know it's just wishful thinking...

Quote from SiegeDino »

Also will it be Karn, Mox, Explosives , Bob or Cavern to cross first the hundred dollar mark? (thank God prices in Europe are lower)

If you live in Canada, it's already all of the above except for Explosives, which is currently at $75. All the rest are floating around $120 up here

Quote from SiegeDino »

OMG in Greece the first 3 are 60 euros and explosives are like 35 euros

Remind me to order cards from Greece, provided the shipping doesn't cost the $30/card I'd be saving lol