Modern is becoming prohibitively expensive. This is a problem, because this is Magic's 'keeper' format. Kids play Standard and draft. When I say kids, I mean teenagers and college students. The draft is enough to get them the cards they need need for their commander. Not sure how Brawl will affect that. There comes a time when they tire of the constant flow of funds, and they mature. They will either sell out of the game and move on with their lives, or convert to Modern. It behooves Wizards to convert them to Modern, because a Modern player will stay with the game for a far longer time. They could convert to Commander, but WotC wants to be careful with that. Commander players are far more tenuously connected to the game. My commander group is rather rabid, but they pay little to no attention to what's going on with the game at large.
I'd say what WotC needs is a LOT more communication. And a standardized plan for reprints that is clearly communicated. A Modern Masters set every 2 years is a great idea. I find it hard to imagine they will ever run out of things to reprint, for 2 reasons:
1: Right now, the game is very wide open. The number of cards seeing demand is high. This is not 2015, where there were 5 or 6 'Tier 1' decks. We have dozens of decks that can spike a tournament into top 16 or 32 contention. Any of those could top 8 at any time.
Much as I hated it at the time, and still hate it, Splinter Twin ban was a smashing success for Modern.
2: Carried off successfully, a new program of openness is going to only increase players in the fold, which will keep demand steady and consistent, always resulting in upward pressure for reprints.
Wizards needs to get off their DRAFT nut, and realize, Draft is great to sell Standard products. Draft does not need to sell Masters products. I bought 4 cases of MM15, 4 cases of MM17 and 1 case of EMA, and it sure as hell was not to draft it. (And that is not even getting into the Standard cases I bought.)
Communication and consistency. Bring back Modern Masters. Tell us Modern Masters is NOT a drafting set. The sole reason is to introduce more copies of needed cards into the arena. If a land reaches $50, you can expect a reprint. That's not a promise of one, but expect one. If a planeswalker reaches $60, again, no promises, but start expecting. And so on. Clear communication about what their standards are for reprints will prevent the wild swingy buyouts that frustrate so many players. Reassure us that when the time comes to sell, we generally should get 40 to 50 cents on the dollar. You probably won't make a profit, but you also won't walk away with nothing.
Eliminating the draft aspect of the set completely removes a year of design time. All you have to do is calculate how much EV to add, and then go about picking cards that need a reprint, right down to the common and uncommon level. It allows you to ignore the need to upshift into Mythic 'because this at rare or uncommon will ruin the draft experience.'
Best of all, losing a year of design time gives you much greater flexibility in making late changes. Having uncommons worth $25 or $40 is one of those problems. Constantly being 2 or even 3 years out from being able to satisfy demand is NOT an option. When Goblin Lore or Mishra's Bauble start demanding stupid prices, you need to be able to say - Scratch Lightning Bolt and replace Goblin Guide with something else, we're shifting value and throwing in Bauble or Lore. Even if the set is supposed to go to the printers next Monday.
Keep Modern stable, and you will always be able to sell a master set that, because you eliminated the hours that go into crafting a draft format, is even easier and cheaper to make. You will better be able to control the prices of cards, and grow Modern as an 'After Standard' format. Standard is a format that depends on 'Daddy's money, or, sad as it is to say, student loan money. When the era of fiscal responsibility hits, and allowance money and student loans no longer pay for your entertainment, and a single constant expense is desirable, Modern should be cheap enough for former standard players to ease into. This is not just coming out of my rear end. I live in a college town, with 2 high schools of 2000+ students each. College students constantly comment about student loans money paying for their gaming and magic. I see players fade away as student loan money runs low in February and March. I see high schoolers quit as allowances get reduced or eliminated as parents cut off the flow and tell them to pay their own way. Suddenly these high schoolers decide in a big hurry that draft is expensive!
But it all comes back to communication and consistency.
Those 9 cases I bought of MM15, MM17 and EMA?
Gone.
I sold out of the game because I cannot handle the inconsistent nature of WotC. They can't decide how to handle rotation. They can't decide how many sets should be in a block. After 25 years, they can't figure out that formats work best when it is Rock, Paper, Scissors. They can't decide of Modern should be a Pro Tour or not. They made 'graveyard matters' blocks with no way to deal with graveyards. They made 'Energy matters' with no way to deal with energy. They can't decide how to handle something as simple as rewards for showing up to their events. They keep screwing up the simplest things. They can't figure out how to #paythepros. Constantly, from the moment I started playing on the eve of MM25, it has been a consistency of poor decisions, half tracks and backtracks from WotC. And now they can't even be smart enough to not kill the cash cow that was the Masters series. I'm burned out. Too much whiplash. I'm done. I have 2 modern decks, 1 legacy deck, and I play Commander 90% of the time. And I have every expectation they are going to continue to grab control of that format just so they can screw it all up like they do everything else.
My hell, they do ONE thing right, in introducing an investment level of cards like the Masterpiece series, and sure enough, doing what they do best, they screw it up. They make the ugliest cards in the history of collectible, customizable or trading card games.
They are so bad you literally cannot read them. They look nothing like a Magic card. A kid walking down the street would never pick it up and say, 'Hey! Magic!' Hell, the Reddit boards STILL get players asking 'What is this card I got in my Amonkhet pack? It's in some foreign language?'
Masterpieces were a fantastic idea. It sucked the value of a box all the way up to the collectors of the game. That, in turn, made Standard a lot cheaper to play, and Drafts a LOT more entertaining. There was the small drawback that your box EV was a lot lower if you didn't have a Masterpiece, but Standard players play draft, they don't much buy boxes. Allowances don't quite stretch that far.
And then, to compound the stupidity, they did away Masterpieces with the vague, 'We aren't doing them anymore, but we can always bring it back if we like!' More of the same inconsistent excrement I've come to expect, and leads everyone to say, 'They'll be back next time they have a bad set that needs something to sell it.'
Communication. It's really easy. Set a standard on reprints, and tell us. Do not mess with what works, aka Modern Masters. Quit changing all your formats. Do not jerk us around with rash decisions that you have to reverse 6 months later.
But what do I know? I do know this: I don't buy cases any more. WotC managed to slay this golden goose/whale.
Just wondering if someone is trying to do a buyout on Ghalta, Primal Hunger.. was going to add one to my SCG cart today, only to find out that the dino is sold out, all versions. It's probably demand for Standard.
well i get that some people think the better choice would have been to get rid of the drafting nonsense.
but look at it this way. initially the drafting might have not been the main focus. however when the reception by the draft community was so overwhelmingly positive it was a bit of a surprise. they realized that if they can use mechanics from all the sets spanning the 25 years of magic that they can create amazingly deep and complex draft environments; which is what drafters eat up.
so they found something about a product that people were exceptionally happy about. of course the natural response would then be to do it again.
the issue then became that they only had a single product where they could jam all of these disparate sets together. however this product was also serving another purpose, helping with card availability. this pulled them in two directions where they couldnt focus entirely on one or the other, eventually leading to mediocrity on both fronts.
the masters products are already established, and people understand what you are talking about when you use the name. its a set with cards from various eras in the games history coming together. so with product recognition already established, it only makes sense for them to run with it as the draft product.
this is why i believe they are going to release a new product line at some point explicitly for reprints and nothing else. they had to split the products at some point, and this way made sense to me.
of course i could just be wrong in which case we will all be up the creek with no paddle.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Just wondering if someone is trying to do a buyout on Ghalta, Primal Hunger.. was going to add one to my SCG cart today, only to find out that the dino is sold out, all versions. It's probably demand for Standard.
Saffron olive already posted a budget stomps green list for standard that he slots perfectly in.
Reid duke just posted a mono green and a GB build on channel fireball this week for rotation.
Considering the cast down FNM promo and fatal push, there is really nothing that deals with him easily until you get to 3-4 mana. Coupled with the fact that it's actually kinda easy to give him haste, he's really hard to deal with. Post rotation, baring some decent stuff it's going to be compounded because Dino's is left mostly intact. I think people are just moving sooner then later.
Thanks for the reply mapccu. So that's probably the reason why the price increased by a little as well. Oh, well.. I heard people like to buy cards that Saffron in cludes in his budget lists. I would just wait for it to become available again.
Cards have spiked ridiculously. It has been so much, I've even considered selling decks that I don't use much. But, prices can still go up from here; Modern season is coming up soon (Modern PPTQ season).
Yup.
I just sold out of all my Jund and Tron staples. I never play the decks and prices were too good to pass up. And frankly, having an absurd price to a deck is a good way to control my urge to buy into it hah!
And when you consider that MtG is way less popular than hearthstone, a game where your collection has zero economic value, the Chronicles argument is far more limited than some people want us to believe.
To be fair, my hearthstone collection has zero economic value, but it had cost me nothing at all. I am a f2p player, have the decks i want, and never spent a single cent on the game, and never will. IF i had to buy packs to play the game, i doubt it would be as popular as it is.
But that is, you know. wizards entire business model.
well mtg arena, the hearthstone clone, will be adopting a slightly altered system based on the same principles as HS.
seriously i just cringe whenever i see arena gameplay videos. its like watching a car crash in slow motion. you know what the outcome will be but you just cant look away.
Well, not exactly on topic, but I like to believe it's catering to a different crowd than that on MTG Salvation and part of Reddit. Otherwise, there is a very big problem brewing for Wizards because they probably sunk a whole lot of someones money into that game. There is a reason Kickstarter has far more successful board and card game projects than PC gaming projects and the funding is a major part of that.
I actually don't see a winning scenario either way with that game.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Just wondering if someone is trying to do a buyout on Ghalta, Primal Hunger.. was going to add one to my SCG cart today, only to find out that the dino is sold out, all versions. It's probably demand for Standard.
Seems like a very good pick for the new format, so that may be one of the reasons.
I suppose they could make a masters set that isn't about drafting, just reprints, but I don't see the packs containing more than 5 cards. You may as well as throw in 10 extra cards and make it draftable anyways. There's only so many commons to go around and most aren't in high demand anyways. I guess you could do a single set the first time around with good commons. But the second set would start to have a lot of overlap at common. Midnight release of a masters set has a lot of drafters at the stores in my area, so i'm inclined to believe it's also boosting sales.
Just wondering if someone is trying to do a buyout on Ghalta, Primal Hunger.. was going to add one to my SCG cart today, only to find out that the dino is sold out, all versions. It's probably demand for Standard.
Saffron olive already posted a budget stomps green list for standard that he slots perfectly in.
Reid duke just posted a mono green and a GB build on channel fireball this week for rotation.
Considering the cast down FNM promo and fatal push, there is really nothing that deals with him easily until you get to 3-4 mana. Coupled with the fact that it's actually kinda easy to give him haste, he's really hard to deal with. Post rotation, baring some decent stuff it's going to be compounded because Dino's is left mostly intact. I think people are just moving sooner then later.
good thing you can use those removal spells to kill enablers and never have to deal with ghalta at all.
at best ghalta is a 1-of that you should side out in removal heavy matchups in favor of a reliable fatty like carnage tyrant.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I don't think anyone really trusts Wizards of the Coast to reprint anything anymore and that is why the prices are going up. Even I don't really trust them doing it after the travesty this year has been. It's like they are run by monkeys and we're all just left wondering what random thing they are going to do that is actually right will be. I'm saying right now selling is safer than buying because of the way people are acting. If everyone thinks it is time to buy now, than that is the time to sell. If people are not buying than the prices drop and that is when you want to go after staples. Just at that time modern might not be the popular thing. So basically it's a game of working against the grain, so to speak.
Ah, Colt understand that while you are technically correct, those monkeys self-identify as nonbinary adults who are super good at their jobs.
Spot on Daeyel. I'm in the process of selling out most of my collection and just keeping a few decks for when I decide to play. No need for me to own every modern staple when I have no faith in the company. I've started playing Hex instead and I must say I enjoy it a lot more than I thought I would. The standard format is probably on par with the power level of MTG modern, if not a little higher, but they are smart enough to print answers to powerful cards. Not to mention it is a fraction of the cost. It scratches all the magic itch, right down to playing the finance game, with a lot less frustration.
I don't think anyone really trusts Wizards of the Coast to reprint anything anymore and that is why the prices are going up. Even I don't really trust them doing it after the travesty this year has been. It's like they are run by monkeys and we're all just left wondering what random thing they are going to do that is actually right will be. I'm saying right now selling is safer than buying because of the way people are acting. If everyone thinks it is time to buy now, than that is the time to sell. If people are not buying than the prices drop and that is when you want to go after staples. Just at that time modern might not be the popular thing. So basically it's a game of working against the grain, so to speak.
Why would you be selling if you don't trust WotC to reprint staples? Standard is as crap-tastic as its ever been and the current Modern meta is fantastic; WotC shooting themselves in the foot by retiring the Modern Masters money-making machine will all but guarantee the rise in Modern stock over the next few months - year. As they're wont to do, WotC will eventually backpedal on the decision to move away from Modern Masters and bring it back, like they did with standard's rotating blocks, Core Sets, etc. Sitting on Modern staples isn't a sound long-term plan, but it's the right short-term move so long as WotC is dead-set on making garbage Masters sets.
I don't think anyone really trusts Wizards of the Coast to reprint anything anymore and that is why the prices are going up. Even I don't really trust them doing it after the travesty this year has been. It's like they are run by monkeys and we're all just left wondering what random thing they are going to do that is actually right will be. I'm saying right now selling is safer than buying because of the way people are acting. If everyone thinks it is time to buy now, than that is the time to sell. If people are not buying than the prices drop and that is when you want to go after staples. Just at that time modern might not be the popular thing. So basically it's a game of working against the grain, so to speak.
Why would you be selling if you don't trust WotC to reprint staples? Standard is as crap-tastic as its ever been and the current Modern meta is fantastic; WotC shooting themselves in the foot by retiring the Modern Masters money-making machine will all but guarantee the rise in Modern stock over the next few months - year. As they're wont to do, WotC will eventually backpedal on the decision to move away from Modern Masters and bring it back, like they did with standard's rotating blocks, Core Sets, etc. Sitting on Modern staples isn't a sound long-term plan, but it's the right short-term move so long as WotC is dead-set on making garbage Masters sets.
In their defense, standard is definitely better, but at this point I almost look at each format as a different game. The design choices from ten years ago vs today are so far apart that even a good standard in terms of balance and diversity still feels underwhelming.
No it will not be reprinted any time soon. Wizards generally announce new releases a couple times a year, and as of right now, a card like Scapeshift is only reprintable in a Masters set. There are no Master sets on the currently announced timeline, which extends out roughly 6 months.
So, no one has any idea WHEN the next possible reprint set will be, and even if we did, we have no idea if Scapeshift will be included
No it will not be reprinted any time soon. Wizards generally announce new releases a couple times a year, and as of right now, a card like Scapeshift is only reprintable in a Masters set. There are no Master sets on the currently announced timeline, which extends out roughly 6 months.
So, no one has any idea WHEN the next possible reprint set will be, and even if we did, we have no idea if Scapeshift will be included
To further compound the issue with scapeshift is its effect is unique and it's a deck defining card, which makes it mythic eligible. Furthermore, what kind of draft archetype would even be supported by scapeshift? Valakut is a fine draftable card by itself, and can easily show up at rare. Scapeshift does nothing to support most draft archetypes and would call for concessions elsewhere in the set environment.
Since every booster set has a draft theme now, apparently that's one of the main sellers of every booster set now (I disagree the community is that head over heels about drafting these specialty sets, I do think there is a draft subsection that enjoys it thoroughly. Making each set a draft format is in wizards best interest for sales, however). Let the masters set mainly cater to the crowd the product was designed for imho. Modern players who need staples.
I'm not sure what the right route for scapeshift is. It adds little depth to a draft environment without warping it if it's rare. If it's mythic the price sees little movement after the initial release and spring back (look at other modern staples like karn or emrakul for trajectory patterns I think). In a supplemental set you probably won't get the full 4 because they want you trading, chasing cards, or buying more product. Also, if the secondary mkt prices of singles exceeds the product, then the product is broken down for parts by stores and the distribution channel before the end consumer.
There isn't an elegant solution for scapeshift I'm afraid. At least not an argument where other cards in need of reprinting don't just win out over it.
If I wanted to sell, wouldnt I keep holding as prices rise?
Because if there is one mistake that always bites people in the rear when it comes to playing markets, it's waiting constantly thinking the prices will always keep going up and then panic selling when they drop. I'd rather be the one getting a good deal now than risking tomorrow.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If I wanted to sell, wouldnt I keep holding as prices rise?
Because if there is one mistake that always bites people in the rear when it comes to playing markets, it's waiting constantly thinking the prices will always keep going up and then panic selling when they drop. I'd rather be the one getting a good deal now than risking tomorrow.
Agreed. And once you missed the boat, it's often better to just keep sitting on them rather than sell at a loss (lookin' at you: Ancestral Vision )
No it will not be reprinted any time soon. Wizards generally announce new releases a couple times a year, and as of right now, a card like Scapeshift is only reprintable in a Masters set. There are no Master sets on the currently announced timeline, which extends out roughly 6 months.
So, no one has any idea WHEN the next possible reprint set will be, and even if we did, we have no idea if Scapeshift will be included
To further compound the issue with scapeshift is its effect is unique and it's a deck defining card, which makes it mythic eligible. Furthermore, what kind of draft archetype would even be supported by scapeshift? Valakut is a fine draftable card by itself, and can easily show up at rare. Scapeshift does nothing to support most draft archetypes and would call for concessions elsewhere in the set environment.
Since every booster set has a draft theme now, apparently that's one of the main sellers of every booster set now (I disagree the community is that head over heels about drafting these specialty sets, I do think there is a draft subsection that enjoys it thoroughly. Making each set a draft format is in wizards best interest for sales, however). Let the masters set mainly cater to the crowd the product was designed for imho. Modern players who need staples.
I'm not sure what the right route for scapeshift is. It adds little depth to a draft environment without warping it if it's rare. If it's mythic the price sees little movement after the initial release and spring back (look at other modern staples like karn or emrakul for trajectory patterns I think). In a supplemental set you probably won't get the full 4 because they want you trading, chasing cards, or buying more product. Also, if the secondary mkt prices of singles exceeds the product, then the product is broken down for parts by stores and the distribution channel before the end consumer.
There isn't an elegant solution for scapeshift I'm afraid. At least not an argument where other cards in need of reprinting don't just win out over it.
I think there actually is an elegant solution for Scapeshift, one that Wizards has just started exploring. Those new Challenger decks or whatever they are called, they could do a Modern set of them. Basic, somewhat stripped down versions of Scapeshift, Tron, Affinity, and Merfolk (with Cavern). Not full sets, but it gets the cards out there. I don't care about Standard AT ALL, but those decks are the best idea they have had in several years.
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
No it will not be reprinted any time soon. Wizards generally announce new releases a couple times a year, and as of right now, a card like Scapeshift is only reprintable in a Masters set. There are no Master sets on the currently announced timeline, which extends out roughly 6 months.
So, no one has any idea WHEN the next possible reprint set will be, and even if we did, we have no idea if Scapeshift will be included
To further compound the issue with scapeshift is its effect is unique and it's a deck defining card, which makes it mythic eligible. Furthermore, what kind of draft archetype would even be supported by scapeshift? Valakut is a fine draftable card by itself, and can easily show up at rare. Scapeshift does nothing to support most draft archetypes and would call for concessions elsewhere in the set environment.
Since every booster set has a draft theme now, apparently that's one of the main sellers of every booster set now (I disagree the community is that head over heels about drafting these specialty sets, I do think there is a draft subsection that enjoys it thoroughly. Making each set a draft format is in wizards best interest for sales, however). Let the masters set mainly cater to the crowd the product was designed for imho. Modern players who need staples.
I'm not sure what the right route for scapeshift is. It adds little depth to a draft environment without warping it if it's rare. If it's mythic the price sees little movement after the initial release and spring back (look at other modern staples like karn or emrakul for trajectory patterns I think). In a supplemental set you probably won't get the full 4 because they want you trading, chasing cards, or buying more product. Also, if the secondary mkt prices of singles exceeds the product, then the product is broken down for parts by stores and the distribution channel before the end consumer.
There isn't an elegant solution for scapeshift I'm afraid. At least not an argument where other cards in need of reprinting don't just win out over it.
Landfall would be the draft archetype that would use it. I'm not saying it would be back breakingly amazing, but they could easily make a landfall theme with Fetchlands, Scapeshift, even Valakut if they wanted to. Landfall is even an extremely popular mechanic too.
No it will not be reprinted any time soon. Wizards generally announce new releases a couple times a year, and as of right now, a card like Scapeshift is only reprintable in a Masters set. There are no Master sets on the currently announced timeline, which extends out roughly 6 months.
So, no one has any idea WHEN the next possible reprint set will be, and even if we did, we have no idea if Scapeshift will be included
To further compound the issue with scapeshift is its effect is unique and it's a deck defining card, which makes it mythic eligible. Furthermore, what kind of draft archetype would even be supported by scapeshift? Valakut is a fine draftable card by itself, and can easily show up at rare. Scapeshift does nothing to support most draft archetypes and would call for concessions elsewhere in the set environment.
Since every booster set has a draft theme now, apparently that's one of the main sellers of every booster set now (I disagree the community is that head over heels about drafting these specialty sets, I do think there is a draft subsection that enjoys it thoroughly. Making each set a draft format is in wizards best interest for sales, however). Let the masters set mainly cater to the crowd the product was designed for imho. Modern players who need staples.
I'm not sure what the right route for scapeshift is. It adds little depth to a draft environment without warping it if it's rare. If it's mythic the price sees little movement after the initial release and spring back (look at other modern staples like karn or emrakul for trajectory patterns I think). In a supplemental set you probably won't get the full 4 because they want you trading, chasing cards, or buying more product. Also, if the secondary mkt prices of singles exceeds the product, then the product is broken down for parts by stores and the distribution channel before the end consumer.
There isn't an elegant solution for scapeshift I'm afraid. At least not an argument where other cards in need of reprinting don't just win out over it.
Landfall would be the draft archetype that would use it. I'm not saying it would be back breakingly amazing, but they could easily make a landfall theme with Fetchlands, Scapeshift, even Valakut if they wanted to. Landfall is even an extremely popular mechanic too.
Landfall is popular, but the fetches and valakut appear at rare easily and are the engine to the deck. Yeah you could fill uncommon and common with things like cultivate or harrow but your big rare payoff cards would never wheel in a pod because fetches are good for everyone. I just don't think scapeshift is enough to signal me into an archetype if I'm drafting. It's very swingy and requires the pod to align well to its gameplan.
Just like gemhide sliver the most efficient landfall threats are great in any color combo that wants them. Who doesn't want a 2/3 for 1 almost all the time in an aggressive W/x deck? Lynx would simply not make it a full rotation more than likely.
That's the issue I see, is that the environment for the card to exist in a draft format becomes very taxing on what shows up in the set. You make a lot of concessions to fill out that space and I just don't think scapeshift is worth that much space. avenger of zendikar is just the better card for the strat if you want d it to be a theme.
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As for it showing up in a supplemental product, I think it's possible but that opens a whole new can of worms. Do we want a scapeshift deck with 1-2 copies of its namesake over an affinity deck? Over an allies deck? Over a control deck? The later decks have a higher chance of being customizable and upgradeable imho. BW tokens wasn't only full of sought after cards, it was semi competitive and could win. Without the more efficient ramp spells AND permission can scapeshift even make it to t6 to set up its kill? The mana base alone could cause issue and knock this out of being a contender honestly.
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The problem with very specific/narrow engine cards is that they're not always easy to find a home for in a supplemental product. Honestly if I were going to put it into any product it would have been zendikar vs eldrazi duel deck. The roil, from a story perspective, was designed specifically to deal with the eldrazi. It was a flavor fit/color fit/price win, but who wants to buy a duel deck and lose to a one card combo vs their friend in kitchen table magic? Instead we got avenger of zendikar (see above) who was also printed in commander around the same time...
The prices of staples are indeed going up. Yesterday, I was surprised someone was buying a playset of Lava Spike for 25 dollars in our facebook group. The last I remember... lava spike is only a 1 or 2 dollar card a few years ago?
The prices of staples are indeed going up. Yesterday, I was surprised someone was buying a playset of Lava Spike for 25 dollars in our facebook group. The last I remember... lava spike is only a 1 or 2 dollar card a few years ago?
I mean spike has been around $4 for a year or two. I'm building burn now, tried to last year and yeah the spikes are creeping but not as substantially as you see. Fortunately Rift Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Boros Charm and Lightning Helix all saw a couple reprints in the past year to keep them under control.
Prices are not going down unless WOTC says they are returning to true modern masters sets instead of these silly themes (first two themes are iconic and anniversary? *****ty themes to begin with). That or the next theme is "colorless matters" and we see reprints on emrakul, karn, opal etc as the set is based around eldrazi and artifacts.
It almost feels like WOTC printed MM17, got a great response, and rather than think they just made a great product which should set the bar for future releases they instead went "you know what would be great? if we could make a set that appeals to modern players, collectors, investors, drafters, legacy players AND commander players along with some casuals all at once!" And now they are finding out it is impossible. I understand that they basically had IMA and A25 done by the time M17 hit the shelves, but to then announce that those two garbage fires would be the norm?!
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I'd say what WotC needs is a LOT more communication. And a standardized plan for reprints that is clearly communicated. A Modern Masters set every 2 years is a great idea. I find it hard to imagine they will ever run out of things to reprint, for 2 reasons:
1: Right now, the game is very wide open. The number of cards seeing demand is high. This is not 2015, where there were 5 or 6 'Tier 1' decks. We have dozens of decks that can spike a tournament into top 16 or 32 contention. Any of those could top 8 at any time.
Much as I hated it at the time, and still hate it, Splinter Twin ban was a smashing success for Modern.
2: Carried off successfully, a new program of openness is going to only increase players in the fold, which will keep demand steady and consistent, always resulting in upward pressure for reprints.
Wizards needs to get off their DRAFT nut, and realize, Draft is great to sell Standard products. Draft does not need to sell Masters products. I bought 4 cases of MM15, 4 cases of MM17 and 1 case of EMA, and it sure as hell was not to draft it. (And that is not even getting into the Standard cases I bought.)
Communication and consistency. Bring back Modern Masters. Tell us Modern Masters is NOT a drafting set. The sole reason is to introduce more copies of needed cards into the arena. If a land reaches $50, you can expect a reprint. That's not a promise of one, but expect one. If a planeswalker reaches $60, again, no promises, but start expecting. And so on. Clear communication about what their standards are for reprints will prevent the wild swingy buyouts that frustrate so many players. Reassure us that when the time comes to sell, we generally should get 40 to 50 cents on the dollar. You probably won't make a profit, but you also won't walk away with nothing.
Eliminating the draft aspect of the set completely removes a year of design time. All you have to do is calculate how much EV to add, and then go about picking cards that need a reprint, right down to the common and uncommon level. It allows you to ignore the need to upshift into Mythic 'because this at rare or uncommon will ruin the draft experience.'
Best of all, losing a year of design time gives you much greater flexibility in making late changes. Having uncommons worth $25 or $40 is one of those problems. Constantly being 2 or even 3 years out from being able to satisfy demand is NOT an option. When Goblin Lore or Mishra's Bauble start demanding stupid prices, you need to be able to say - Scratch Lightning Bolt and replace Goblin Guide with something else, we're shifting value and throwing in Bauble or Lore. Even if the set is supposed to go to the printers next Monday.
Keep Modern stable, and you will always be able to sell a master set that, because you eliminated the hours that go into crafting a draft format, is even easier and cheaper to make. You will better be able to control the prices of cards, and grow Modern as an 'After Standard' format. Standard is a format that depends on 'Daddy's money, or, sad as it is to say, student loan money. When the era of fiscal responsibility hits, and allowance money and student loans no longer pay for your entertainment, and a single constant expense is desirable, Modern should be cheap enough for former standard players to ease into. This is not just coming out of my rear end. I live in a college town, with 2 high schools of 2000+ students each. College students constantly comment about student loans money paying for their gaming and magic. I see players fade away as student loan money runs low in February and March. I see high schoolers quit as allowances get reduced or eliminated as parents cut off the flow and tell them to pay their own way. Suddenly these high schoolers decide in a big hurry that draft is expensive!
But it all comes back to communication and consistency.
Those 9 cases I bought of MM15, MM17 and EMA?
Gone.
I sold out of the game because I cannot handle the inconsistent nature of WotC. They can't decide how to handle rotation. They can't decide how many sets should be in a block. After 25 years, they can't figure out that formats work best when it is Rock, Paper, Scissors. They can't decide of Modern should be a Pro Tour or not. They made 'graveyard matters' blocks with no way to deal with graveyards. They made 'Energy matters' with no way to deal with energy. They can't decide how to handle something as simple as rewards for showing up to their events. They keep screwing up the simplest things. They can't figure out how to #paythepros. Constantly, from the moment I started playing on the eve of MM25, it has been a consistency of poor decisions, half tracks and backtracks from WotC. And now they can't even be smart enough to not kill the cash cow that was the Masters series. I'm burned out. Too much whiplash. I'm done. I have 2 modern decks, 1 legacy deck, and I play Commander 90% of the time. And I have every expectation they are going to continue to grab control of that format just so they can screw it all up like they do everything else.
My hell, they do ONE thing right, in introducing an investment level of cards like the Masterpiece series, and sure enough, doing what they do best, they screw it up. They make the ugliest cards in the history of collectible, customizable or trading card games.
They are so bad you literally cannot read them. They look nothing like a Magic card. A kid walking down the street would never pick it up and say, 'Hey! Magic!' Hell, the Reddit boards STILL get players asking 'What is this card I got in my Amonkhet pack? It's in some foreign language?'
Masterpieces were a fantastic idea. It sucked the value of a box all the way up to the collectors of the game. That, in turn, made Standard a lot cheaper to play, and Drafts a LOT more entertaining. There was the small drawback that your box EV was a lot lower if you didn't have a Masterpiece, but Standard players play draft, they don't much buy boxes. Allowances don't quite stretch that far.
And then, to compound the stupidity, they did away Masterpieces with the vague, 'We aren't doing them anymore, but we can always bring it back if we like!' More of the same inconsistent excrement I've come to expect, and leads everyone to say, 'They'll be back next time they have a bad set that needs something to sell it.'
Communication. It's really easy. Set a standard on reprints, and tell us. Do not mess with what works, aka Modern Masters. Quit changing all your formats. Do not jerk us around with rash decisions that you have to reverse 6 months later.
But what do I know? I do know this: I don't buy cases any more. WotC managed to slay this golden goose/whale.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
but look at it this way. initially the drafting might have not been the main focus. however when the reception by the draft community was so overwhelmingly positive it was a bit of a surprise. they realized that if they can use mechanics from all the sets spanning the 25 years of magic that they can create amazingly deep and complex draft environments; which is what drafters eat up.
so they found something about a product that people were exceptionally happy about. of course the natural response would then be to do it again.
the issue then became that they only had a single product where they could jam all of these disparate sets together. however this product was also serving another purpose, helping with card availability. this pulled them in two directions where they couldnt focus entirely on one or the other, eventually leading to mediocrity on both fronts.
the masters products are already established, and people understand what you are talking about when you use the name. its a set with cards from various eras in the games history coming together. so with product recognition already established, it only makes sense for them to run with it as the draft product.
this is why i believe they are going to release a new product line at some point explicitly for reprints and nothing else. they had to split the products at some point, and this way made sense to me.
of course i could just be wrong in which case we will all be up the creek with no paddle.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Saffron olive already posted a budget stomps green list for standard that he slots perfectly in.
Reid duke just posted a mono green and a GB build on channel fireball this week for rotation.
Considering the cast down FNM promo and fatal push, there is really nothing that deals with him easily until you get to 3-4 mana. Coupled with the fact that it's actually kinda easy to give him haste, he's really hard to deal with. Post rotation, baring some decent stuff it's going to be compounded because Dino's is left mostly intact. I think people are just moving sooner then later.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Yup.
I just sold out of all my Jund and Tron staples. I never play the decks and prices were too good to pass up. And frankly, having an absurd price to a deck is a good way to control my urge to buy into it hah!
Modern: Storm
Legacy: ANT
Well, not exactly on topic, but I like to believe it's catering to a different crowd than that on MTG Salvation and part of Reddit. Otherwise, there is a very big problem brewing for Wizards because they probably sunk a whole lot of someones money into that game. There is a reason Kickstarter has far more successful board and card game projects than PC gaming projects and the funding is a major part of that.
I actually don't see a winning scenario either way with that game.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
good thing you can use those removal spells to kill enablers and never have to deal with ghalta at all.
at best ghalta is a 1-of that you should side out in removal heavy matchups in favor of a reliable fatty like carnage tyrant.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Ah, Colt understand that while you are technically correct, those monkeys self-identify as nonbinary adults who are super good at their jobs.
Why would you be selling if you don't trust WotC to reprint staples? Standard is as crap-tastic as its ever been and the current Modern meta is fantastic; WotC shooting themselves in the foot by retiring the Modern Masters money-making machine will all but guarantee the rise in Modern stock over the next few months - year. As they're wont to do, WotC will eventually backpedal on the decision to move away from Modern Masters and bring it back, like they did with standard's rotating blocks, Core Sets, etc. Sitting on Modern staples isn't a sound long-term plan, but it's the right short-term move so long as WotC is dead-set on making garbage Masters sets.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
In their defense, standard is definitely better, but at this point I almost look at each format as a different game. The design choices from ten years ago vs today are so far apart that even a good standard in terms of balance and diversity still feels underwhelming.
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
So, no one has any idea WHEN the next possible reprint set will be, and even if we did, we have no idea if Scapeshift will be included
To further compound the issue with scapeshift is its effect is unique and it's a deck defining card, which makes it mythic eligible. Furthermore, what kind of draft archetype would even be supported by scapeshift? Valakut is a fine draftable card by itself, and can easily show up at rare. Scapeshift does nothing to support most draft archetypes and would call for concessions elsewhere in the set environment.
Since every booster set has a draft theme now, apparently that's one of the main sellers of every booster set now (I disagree the community is that head over heels about drafting these specialty sets, I do think there is a draft subsection that enjoys it thoroughly. Making each set a draft format is in wizards best interest for sales, however). Let the masters set mainly cater to the crowd the product was designed for imho. Modern players who need staples.
I'm not sure what the right route for scapeshift is. It adds little depth to a draft environment without warping it if it's rare. If it's mythic the price sees little movement after the initial release and spring back (look at other modern staples like karn or emrakul for trajectory patterns I think). In a supplemental set you probably won't get the full 4 because they want you trading, chasing cards, or buying more product. Also, if the secondary mkt prices of singles exceeds the product, then the product is broken down for parts by stores and the distribution channel before the end consumer.
There isn't an elegant solution for scapeshift I'm afraid. At least not an argument where other cards in need of reprinting don't just win out over it.
Because if there is one mistake that always bites people in the rear when it comes to playing markets, it's waiting constantly thinking the prices will always keep going up and then panic selling when they drop. I'd rather be the one getting a good deal now than risking tomorrow.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Agreed. And once you missed the boat, it's often better to just keep sitting on them rather than sell at a loss (lookin' at you: Ancestral Vision
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I think there actually is an elegant solution for Scapeshift, one that Wizards has just started exploring. Those new Challenger decks or whatever they are called, they could do a Modern set of them. Basic, somewhat stripped down versions of Scapeshift, Tron, Affinity, and Merfolk (with Cavern). Not full sets, but it gets the cards out there. I don't care about Standard AT ALL, but those decks are the best idea they have had in several years.
Landfall would be the draft archetype that would use it. I'm not saying it would be back breakingly amazing, but they could easily make a landfall theme with Fetchlands, Scapeshift, even Valakut if they wanted to. Landfall is even an extremely popular mechanic too.
Landfall is popular, but the fetches and valakut appear at rare easily and are the engine to the deck. Yeah you could fill uncommon and common with things like cultivate or harrow but your big rare payoff cards would never wheel in a pod because fetches are good for everyone. I just don't think scapeshift is enough to signal me into an archetype if I'm drafting. It's very swingy and requires the pod to align well to its gameplan.
Just like gemhide sliver the most efficient landfall threats are great in any color combo that wants them. Who doesn't want a 2/3 for 1 almost all the time in an aggressive W/x deck? Lynx would simply not make it a full rotation more than likely.
That's the issue I see, is that the environment for the card to exist in a draft format becomes very taxing on what shows up in the set. You make a lot of concessions to fill out that space and I just don't think scapeshift is worth that much space. avenger of zendikar is just the better card for the strat if you want d it to be a theme.
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As for it showing up in a supplemental product, I think it's possible but that opens a whole new can of worms. Do we want a scapeshift deck with 1-2 copies of its namesake over an affinity deck? Over an allies deck? Over a control deck? The later decks have a higher chance of being customizable and upgradeable imho. BW tokens wasn't only full of sought after cards, it was semi competitive and could win. Without the more efficient ramp spells AND permission can scapeshift even make it to t6 to set up its kill? The mana base alone could cause issue and knock this out of being a contender honestly.
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The problem with very specific/narrow engine cards is that they're not always easy to find a home for in a supplemental product. Honestly if I were going to put it into any product it would have been zendikar vs eldrazi duel deck. The roil, from a story perspective, was designed specifically to deal with the eldrazi. It was a flavor fit/color fit/price win, but who wants to buy a duel deck and lose to a one card combo vs their friend in kitchen table magic? Instead we got avenger of zendikar (see above) who was also printed in commander around the same time...
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I mean spike has been around $4 for a year or two. I'm building burn now, tried to last year and yeah the spikes are creeping but not as substantially as you see. Fortunately Rift Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Boros Charm and Lightning Helix all saw a couple reprints in the past year to keep them under control.
Prices are not going down unless WOTC says they are returning to true modern masters sets instead of these silly themes (first two themes are iconic and anniversary? *****ty themes to begin with). That or the next theme is "colorless matters" and we see reprints on emrakul, karn, opal etc as the set is based around eldrazi and artifacts.
It almost feels like WOTC printed MM17, got a great response, and rather than think they just made a great product which should set the bar for future releases they instead went "you know what would be great? if we could make a set that appeals to modern players, collectors, investors, drafters, legacy players AND commander players along with some casuals all at once!" And now they are finding out it is impossible. I understand that they basically had IMA and A25 done by the time M17 hit the shelves, but to then announce that those two garbage fires would be the norm?!