dude the tcg industry has been in trouble for the last decade. a physical game that asks people to come together and interact face to face in a world where more and more people engage in more digital interaction than not. doesnt take a rocket surgeon to see the dilemma.
people recognize this though which is why tabletop games like dungeons and dragons are on an upswing as a cultural fad to break out of this social funk.
cant speak much for card quality. i havent notice anything different myself, but i see people bring it up enough to believe its a real thing. has hasbro/wotc made a change in production facilities in an effort to cut costs or something? or is it just QA letting more stuff slip through.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
dude the tcg industry has been in trouble for the last decade. a physical game that asks people to come together and interact face to face in a world where more and more people engage in more digital interaction than not. doesnt take a rocket surgeon to see the dilemma.
people recognize this though which is why tabletop games like dungeons and dragons are on an upswing as a cultural fad to break out of this social funk.
I cay say that personally, my wife and I are playing many more tabletops, in addition to participating in our first D&D campaign in the past year. Even with a renaissance (so to speak), the markets are still orders of magnitude smaller than other forms of digital entertainment.
Joban, I may talk about MtG strictly here because this is an MTG forum, but the entire TCG industry as a whole is in trouble. Everyone is cutting down their print runs at best, or at worst struggling to even stay alive.
Isn't the Pokemon TCG on an upswing? Maybe that changed recently, but I know that various sources in mid-2017 reported that it had reached an all-time high in terms of sales.
The TCG industry is Magic. Sure, Pokemon & Yugioh had their time in the limelight and are still being played today, but that industry doesn't exist without Magic, so whatever other games are currently doing is irrelevant. Card quality has been a known issue for almost three years now and I don't think anybody is denying that. WotC brought in a new QA director sometime in 4th quarter of last year and while I have no idea whether or not M25 was already in production by that time, it appears that they're at least cognizant of the the issue and making personnel decisions to address it, even if it's ~25 months overdue. Like I said earlier, this is the first set since pre-IMA where I haven't noticed or heard anyone mention egregious flaws in the card stock. Definitely still early, but I'm cautiously optimistic that they may have finally gotten their ***** together in that regard and, for me, that's saying a lot. If Hasbro were smart, they'd take advantage of TRU going under by leveraging their relationship with local game stores and offer them the opportunity to order/stock other miscellaneous Hasbro brands (e.g. Transformers, Marvel Legends figures, and their newest licensed franchise, Power Rangers); it'd give an additional revenue stream to the stores who want it and gives Hasbro an edge over Bandai, Mattel, or whatever other toy manufacturers are left fighting over limited shelf space at big box stores. As a toy collector myself, I can guaran-damn-tee that would please the average collector/hobbyist who'd much rather buy in-person rather than pay an arm and leg to eBay scalpers.
In yet another attempt to get back on-topic, it appears that Leyline of Sanctitys are quickly drying up on TCGplayer. The non-foil price has exploded over the last couple weeks, but foils have yet to adjust and are currently cheaper than some non-foils. I just picked up two so I'd have a full foil set for my Bogles deck. I'd take advantage of it while ya'll can before foils are de-listed and put back up for $70.
Joban, I may talk about MtG strictly here because this is an MTG forum, but the entire TCG industry as a whole is in trouble. Everyone is cutting down their print runs at best, or at worst struggling to even stay alive.
Isn't the Pokemon TCG on an upswing? Maybe that changed recently, but I know that various sources in mid-2017 reported that it had reached an all-time high in terms of sales.
The ultra-prism boxes are out of print and the company has no intent to do another run. In the case of pokemon they just went through their RTR era boom, while MTG is going through basically another downswing.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
In regards to cardstock, just posting to say that M25 seems just as bad as the sets before it. I left non foils sitting on my kitchen table and the next day they were slightly curved / warped.
In regards to cardstock, just posting to say that M25 seems just as bad as the sets before it. I left non foils sitting on my kitchen table and the next day they were slightly curved / warped.
Even with a renaissance (so to speak), the markets are still orders of magnitude smaller than other forms of digital entertainment.
This is an understatement. :]
Magic at best, gets lower view's than any number of streamers, of computer games.
I mean there are a few reasons for that. Yes, generally MtG is less popular than card games, but hearthstone is a card game (gonna go ahead and get my helmet for the flak that will show up in response to that statement) that usually sits in the top five games on twitch every day, barring a major event like a street fighter championship pushing upwards. MtG is not designed to be a spectator sport. It's barely designed to be watchable when you're standing next to a game in progress. Arena had potential, but I've been rapidly losing faith in that project.
Hearthstone, shadowverse, gwent, duelyst, hell pokemon's online service all offer much better viewing experiences. Then you get into fighting games, MOBAs and whichever call of duty came out this month? MtG has no chance. Yet despite this lower demand, dark confidant is like $90...yeah screw that I can spend the price of a confidant on hearthstone packs and virtually guarantee a playable deck.
It is weird isn't it. To have such prices, on a small piece of cardboard, for a game with such low viewable value for spectators...
It's a very contained ecosystem.
I mean one of my overwatch streamers pulls in nightly more than Standard GPS were getting for the Top 8s and Overwatch isn't a powerhouse on twitch either.
Oh it's a very weird ecosystem. And technology doesn't help. Sites like TCGPlayer do about as much harm as help. If you wanted to sell a playset of Dark Confidant, you have the ability to see everyone else's price. If you want to get paid asap, you lower your price by a buck or two just to appear at the top of the list when people search by price. The website gives median pricing and a "market valuation" that leads to a degree of anonymous collusion. Somebody buys a bunch of cheap ones and relists them, but nobody coming along wants to feel like they got shafted and prices them back at $40-50. It would then literally take weeks where nobody was buying the card to lower the price. That's Bob, that's Snappy, Karn, everything. The legit only way to lower prices are to either reprint the card (which we now know will be happening less often) or for demand to shrivel up for an extended period of time. It kinda sucks.
Well it's a little past the point of speccing on it, it already spiked to 20$ and is now sitting around 10$. Seems like a sketchy investment but that's just my personal opinion
Well it's a little past the point of speccing on it, it already spiked to 20$ and is now sitting around 10$. Seems like a sketchy investment but that's just my personal opinion
Agreed. I picked up a set of foils yesterday, but that was only because my LGS had them for $4 a pop. It doesn't even appear that people are buying into the spike as TCGplayer market is <$3 and no eBay listings sold for more than $5 (non-foil), so it's likely prices will drop quite a bit as players see it's worth something and dig them out of their bulk. If it actually ends up being useful, I'd imagine there'd be another spike shortly after Dominaria is released into the wild.
What is the ceiling/when is the right time to sell/trade my mirrodin Mox Opals. I haven't played affinity competitively for ages and I want to get some of the cards for the mardu/4c pyromancer decks and complete my set of FS goyfs before they start to climb again. I'm seeing opals for about ~80-90 online right now (for reference)
If you're not using the Opals and want to put them toward cards that you will use, now wouldn't be a bad time to pull the trigger. With no new Masters set or anything of the sort scheduled to release in the immediate future, prices will likely continue trending upward, but I don't think you'd miss out on too much value by selling now. I'm pretty sure the number of Modern staples currently above $100 can be counted on one, maybe two, hands, so even if they did eventually cross that threshold, I wouldn't be kicking myself for selling them off at $90. The most recent spike was in response to Opal being a no-show in M25 and it appears that spike has yet to plateau, so it probably wouldn't hurt waiting another couple weeks or so to see where it settles.
I think it is safe to say modern is officially a victim of its own success. After a Pro Tour, the first in years, showing how solid, diverse, and entertaining the format was for many people both to play and watch, I'm not sure when prices are ever going to decrease. Used to be the only cards approaching $100 or passing it were goyf and lily. Now bob, snap, karn, jace, opal are all over or getting damn close. Noble Hierarch is over $70. The lack of modern reprints in iconic and 25 was to be expected - they weren't explicitly made for modern. But between more people being exposed to modern and wanting to try increasing demand, and the announcement that future masters sets would be themed instead of format-based...are we now just past the point of no return?
Burn is still viable for entry-level players. Goblin Guide's reprint at rare helped tremendously.
Burn, and Storm (other than Tarn's?) should be ok still. However yes. When you continue to demonstrate that the format is amazing for a wide selection of players, across any number of decks, and you do not reprint or even demonstrate that you are going to reprint (Iconic, 25, even Eternal) the cards needed, well this is what happens.
yeah dominaria needs to be a knockout, and it cant get here soon enough. people being interested in standard definitely lessens the burden on the economy.
storm is also a relatively cheap option. though i cringe at THAT being an entry level deck. the new jace spellbook product has gifts ungiven, so that should help even more.
ponza is also kinda cheap since it doesnt really have much overlap in terms of staples with other decks. though blood moon is getting a little pricey.
maybe 1 or 2 pushed goblins will be in dominaria. 8 wack is cheap as hell.
mardu pyromancer has a little overlap with jund, but the deck is really good midrange option that you dont need to shell out for a playset of goyfs and liliana.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I honestly don't see why people seem to think Modern cards being expensive is a bad thing. Welcome to how supply and demand works in a market with limited supply items.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Nobody is mystified about the how (welcome to how supply and demand zzzzzzzzzz....you lost me) prices got here.
Card's being THIS expensive, if supply dries up, is a bad thing however. We all laugh at Vintage deck prices or Legacy, because those formats have reserved list issues, but if multiple play sets in your deck are $400+ thats a very steep barrier, that doesnt need to exist.
I honestly don't see why people seem to think Modern cards being expensive is a bad thing. Welcome to how supply and demand works in a market with limited supply items.
How something becomes expensive, and whether it being expensive is a good thing, are two entirely different questions. The former is virtually objective, the latter subjective.
I like modern. I like playing it. I like playing with other people. There's a price point along the spectrum wherein far more people will leave the the format by selling their collections for any number of reasons than those who will join it. That aspect is critical - its not like every collection sold will end up in the hands of the next new player(s). Some will be bought by collectors who think Karn is awesome and wants thirty copies in a binder. Some will be bought by stores/investors and re-listed a week later at 30% higher prices. Some will be bought by current modern players who just want a new deck. They will be competing with standard players who want to keep playing with their old cards.
I'm not ignorant to free market economics (I opted to waste my college tuition on an econ degree). It's just disappointing because in the wake of M17 most decks were falling in price. Jund was at its lowest in years, we saw enemy fetchlands discounted, and like I said burn got overall cheaper thanks to goblin guide reprinted (at rare is key. masters sets should not use mythic rarity rates). Accessibility and value are generally going to operate on opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm not saying we need goyf to cost $12. That'd be kinda funny, but I understand. My point is more that to assume the current state is the best and just say "free market" is rather intellectually laze. There might be a balance that is off here, because let's be real every big vendor jacks up their price every time a card is missing from a reprint set.
i think a few things we can hope for are the format remaining diverse, because a larger array of equally powerful options makes the demand more evenly distributed; and cards trickling in from standard that power up decks that arent that great rather than making good decks better (for the same reason as before).
like im really glad that mardu pyromancer is a good deck because people often look at GBx as the only viable option if you want to play midrange and be competitive.
a stoneforge unban might help with this. although i gotta admit im inwardly cringing at the thought of buying a set of SFM with the associated equipment package; swords are still hella expensive even with seeing no play in this format.
boosting tribal seems like a safe option.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
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people recognize this though which is why tabletop games like dungeons and dragons are on an upswing as a cultural fad to break out of this social funk.
cant speak much for card quality. i havent notice anything different myself, but i see people bring it up enough to believe its a real thing. has hasbro/wotc made a change in production facilities in an effort to cut costs or something? or is it just QA letting more stuff slip through.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Spirits
I cay say that personally, my wife and I are playing many more tabletops, in addition to participating in our first D&D campaign in the past year. Even with a renaissance (so to speak), the markets are still orders of magnitude smaller than other forms of digital entertainment.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
In yet another attempt to get back on-topic, it appears that Leyline of Sanctitys are quickly drying up on TCGplayer. The non-foil price has exploded over the last couple weeks, but foils have yet to adjust and are currently cheaper than some non-foils. I just picked up two so I'd have a full foil set for my Bogles deck. I'd take advantage of it while ya'll can before foils are de-listed and put back up for $70.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
This is an understatement. :]
Magic at best, gets lower view's than any number of streamers, of computer games.
Spirits
The ultra-prism boxes are out of print and the company has no intent to do another run. In the case of pokemon they just went through their RTR era boom, while MTG is going through basically another downswing.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
I mean there are a few reasons for that. Yes, generally MtG is less popular than card games, but hearthstone is a card game (gonna go ahead and get my helmet for the flak that will show up in response to that statement) that usually sits in the top five games on twitch every day, barring a major event like a street fighter championship pushing upwards. MtG is not designed to be a spectator sport. It's barely designed to be watchable when you're standing next to a game in progress. Arena had potential, but I've been rapidly losing faith in that project.
Hearthstone, shadowverse, gwent, duelyst, hell pokemon's online service all offer much better viewing experiences. Then you get into fighting games, MOBAs and whichever call of duty came out this month? MtG has no chance. Yet despite this lower demand, dark confidant is like $90...yeah screw that I can spend the price of a confidant on hearthstone packs and virtually guarantee a playable deck.
It's a very contained ecosystem.
I mean one of my overwatch streamers pulls in nightly more than Standard GPS were getting for the Top 8s and Overwatch isn't a powerhouse on twitch either.
Spirits
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
Agreed. I picked up a set of foils yesterday, but that was only because my LGS had them for $4 a pop. It doesn't even appear that people are buying into the spike as TCGplayer market is <$3 and no eBay listings sold for more than $5 (non-foil), so it's likely prices will drop quite a bit as players see it's worth something and dig them out of their bulk. If it actually ends up being useful, I'd imagine there'd be another spike shortly after Dominaria is released into the wild.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Burn is still viable for entry-level players. Goblin Guide's reprint at rare helped tremendously.
Spirits
storm is also a relatively cheap option. though i cringe at THAT being an entry level deck. the new jace spellbook product has gifts ungiven, so that should help even more.
ponza is also kinda cheap since it doesnt really have much overlap in terms of staples with other decks. though blood moon is getting a little pricey.
maybe 1 or 2 pushed goblins will be in dominaria. 8 wack is cheap as hell.
mardu pyromancer has a little overlap with jund, but the deck is really good midrange option that you dont need to shell out for a playset of goyfs and liliana.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Card's being THIS expensive, if supply dries up, is a bad thing however. We all laugh at Vintage deck prices or Legacy, because those formats have reserved list issues, but if multiple play sets in your deck are $400+ thats a very steep barrier, that doesnt need to exist.
Spirits
How something becomes expensive, and whether it being expensive is a good thing, are two entirely different questions. The former is virtually objective, the latter subjective.
I like modern. I like playing it. I like playing with other people. There's a price point along the spectrum wherein far more people will leave the the format by selling their collections for any number of reasons than those who will join it. That aspect is critical - its not like every collection sold will end up in the hands of the next new player(s). Some will be bought by collectors who think Karn is awesome and wants thirty copies in a binder. Some will be bought by stores/investors and re-listed a week later at 30% higher prices. Some will be bought by current modern players who just want a new deck. They will be competing with standard players who want to keep playing with their old cards.
I'm not ignorant to free market economics (I opted to waste my college tuition on an econ degree). It's just disappointing because in the wake of M17 most decks were falling in price. Jund was at its lowest in years, we saw enemy fetchlands discounted, and like I said burn got overall cheaper thanks to goblin guide reprinted (at rare is key. masters sets should not use mythic rarity rates). Accessibility and value are generally going to operate on opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm not saying we need goyf to cost $12. That'd be kinda funny, but I understand. My point is more that to assume the current state is the best and just say "free market" is rather intellectually laze. There might be a balance that is off here, because let's be real every big vendor jacks up their price every time a card is missing from a reprint set.
like im really glad that mardu pyromancer is a good deck because people often look at GBx as the only viable option if you want to play midrange and be competitive.
a stoneforge unban might help with this. although i gotta admit im inwardly cringing at the thought of buying a set of SFM with the associated equipment package; swords are still hella expensive even with seeing no play in this format.
boosting tribal seems like a safe option.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)