Frontier was a shot across Wizards bow. And they are responding, each set has staples for a new format. It may be a few years, be eventually, Wizards will be announcing a new format. I'd imagine they have at least one person on it already, as far as designating what cards they want from Modern into the format, and then re-arranging the costs. Relic of Progenitus becoming Crook of Condemnation is a prime example.
Frontier was a shot across Wizards bow. And they are responding, each set has staples for a new format. It may be a few years, be eventually, Wizards will be announcing a new format. I'd imagine they have at least one person on it already, as far as designating what cards they want from Modern into the format, and then re-arranging the costs. Relic of Progenitus becoming Crook of Condemnation is a prime example.
Yeah, I do feel that wizards is trying to build and come up with a fixed version of modern. They have a lot of good reasons to do so from price management to card availability. They underestimated how popular and important the non-rotating format was.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Smart players will begin picking up these staples now. Current Standard players who complain about the price of Modern would do well to hang onto their cards. Those who do, will be set for the new format, whatever and whenever it is.
Smart players will begin picking up these staples now. Current Standard players who complain about the price of Modern would do well to hang onto their cards. Those who do, will be set for the new format, whatever and whenever it is.
Modern is pretty safe. The only reason Over-Extended was even invented was because of the reserved list for Legacy. If WotC could print unlimited Alpha dual lands along with the other old set staples, there never would have been a Modern. But since all cards in Modern can and mostly have been reprinted, the need for a new format is nil. Prices for Modern staples should follow normal supply-demand fluctuations going forward.
Not only that, Modern is still gaining in popularity. It was easy for marginally attached Legacy players to sell their expensive cards and turn them into Modern staples because prices for reserved Legacy staples will never go down. If people suddenly started selling tons of Modern staples, people would be less incentivized to sell theirs since prices would crash. They'll just hold on to their cards and keep playing tournaments. If anything, they'd buy into the format more at that point, prices would stabilize, and everyone would just keep playing Modern.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
Frontier was a shot across Wizards bow. And they are responding, each set has staples for a new format. It may be a few years, be eventually, Wizards will be announcing a new format. I'd imagine they have at least one person on it already, as far as designating what cards they want from Modern into the format, and then re-arranging the costs. Relic of Progenitus becoming Crook of Condemnation is a prime example.
Yeah, I do feel that wizards is trying to build and come up with a fixed version of modern. They have a lot of good reasons to do so from price management to card availability. They underestimated how popular and important the non-rotating format was.
There is no fixed Modern.
Affinity -> Improvise? Nope.
Dredge? Nope.
Storm? Nope.
Eldrazi? Nope.
Tron? Nope.
Living End or Restore Balance? Nope.
Decks that make Modern, Modern, simply will never exist in Standard again, unless (Hi Saheeli!) they make mistakes, the same mistakes people try and hide from in Frontier.
Will there be another format? Yes.
Will it be a Modern replacement? They would be stupid to do so.
Frontier was a shot across Wizards bow. And they are responding, each set has staples for a new format. It may be a few years, be eventually, Wizards will be announcing a new format. I'd imagine they have at least one person on it already, as far as designating what cards they want from Modern into the format, and then re-arranging the costs. Relic of Progenitus becoming Crook of Condemnation is a prime example.
Yeah, I do feel that wizards is trying to build and come up with a fixed version of modern. They have a lot of good reasons to do so from price management to card availability. They underestimated how popular and important the non-rotating format was.
There is no fixed Modern.
Affinity -> Improvise? Nope.
Dredge? Nope.
Storm? Nope.
Eldrazi? Nope.
Tron? Nope.
Living End or Restore Balance? Nope.
Decks that make Modern, Modern, simply will never exist in Standard again, unless (Hi Saheeli!) they make mistakes, the same mistakes people try and hide from in Frontier.
Will there be another format? Yes.
Will it be a Modern replacement? They would be stupid to do so.
Modern wouldn't go away. Wizards approach to these things is to let things wither on the vine. They will rotate in support for a new format and probably have some minor overlap with Modern, then slowly shift to the new format completely over a five year period or more.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Why though? The format has proven itself to be suitably robust (remember, it wasn't long ago that Jund Death Shadow was going to be Tier 0) has a perfectly functional reprint path, and is influenced by every.single.standard.set.
What would Wizards gain, that would make up for the loss of dropping, Modern support?
Especially now, after not only supporting Modern with nearly equal shares of events, but ALSO a Pro Tour inclusion? You are looking at decisions which reflect that Wizards is seeing the strength and health of Modern and its importance to their corporate goals.
You dont kill that off, its like when my company under prior leadership waved goodbye to millions in contracts. New leadership came in, went 'wtf did they do that for' and reversed course.
You do not throw away well functioning money making systems, and Modern makes money.
A new format drives interest, It does not compete with Modern, it supplements it. Modern players will make decks for the new format. People will be encouraged, 'Is Modern too expensive? Did you miss the join-in when it was cheap? Here's your chance to get in on the ground floor of a new format!'
Modern is large. It's a lot to learn and remember. It is expensive if you want multiple decks. People will enjoy a format that is far smaller, and not as intensive to learn.
And it keeps things fresh. It will come, like it or not.
Just like Modern players made decks for Frontier? Standard? I dont, and neither do the Modern players I play with.
Your first line is EXACTLY the selling point for Frontier, but its a transient one. Cards come in a limited Supply. Standard Staples reach $20-30 with regularity. Put ANOTHER strain on that supply? Its no longer cheap for some people.
Yes a new format will come in time, but it wont meet goals of cost, it will be to hide from mechanics and cards that certain players refuse to accept, things like Dredge, Storm, and Blood Moon.
Just like Modern players made decks for Frontier? Standard? I dont, and neither do the Modern players I play with.
Your first line is EXACTLY the selling point for Frontier, but its a transient one. Cards come in a limited Supply. Standard Staples reach $20-30 with regularity. Put ANOTHER strain on that supply? Its no longer cheap for some people.
Yes a new format will come in time, but it wont meet goals of cost, it will be to hide from mechanics and cards that certain players refuse to accept, things like Dredge, Storm, and Blood Moon.
Wizards wants an eternal format that has cards they are willing to reprint through standard. Right now modern has plenty of cards that they have on watch lists, have banned, or are just too powerful for their tastes. If they make a format that they can control and encourages people to buy into more standard, they will do it. Since modern is every new border card from a standard set they don't even have to say they are stopping support of modern in the long run.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern is large. It's a lot to learn and remember. It is expensive if you want multiple decks. People will enjoy a format that is far smaller, and not as intensive to learn.
Its called Standard.
Modern isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. It has high interest and decent support through Wizards. A new sanctioned constructed format would just cannabalize sales from either Modern, Standard or both. It could happen someday, but that day is far into the future.
Lastly, I think we may need a mod to step in as this is veering off the Modern Prices track.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Modern is large. It's a lot to learn and remember. It is expensive if you want multiple decks. People will enjoy a format that is far smaller, and not as intensive to learn.
Modern is not that expensive, especially compared to the other eternal formats. It's been great how extra printings have kept prices down on cards like Thoughtseize and Death's Shadow. Even Tarmogoyf has had its price slashed in half.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
Just like Modern players made decks for Frontier? Standard? I dont, and neither do the Modern players I play with.
Your first line is EXACTLY the selling point for Frontier, but its a transient one. Cards come in a limited Supply. Standard Staples reach $20-30 with regularity. Put ANOTHER strain on that supply? Its no longer cheap for some people.
Yes a new format will come in time, but it wont meet goals of cost, it will be to hide from mechanics and cards that certain players refuse to accept, things like Dredge, Storm, and Blood Moon.
Wizards wants an eternal format that has cards they are willing to reprint through standard. Right now modern has plenty of cards that they have on watch lists, have banned, or are just too powerful for their tastes. If they make a format that they can control and encourages people to buy into more standard, they will do it. Since modern is every new border card from a standard set they don't even have to say they are stopping support of modern in the long run.
Source?
They want a format that Standard can impact, and it does with EVERY set.
Smart players will begin picking up these staples now. Current Standard players who complain about the price of Modern would do well to hang onto their cards. Those who do, will be set for the new format, whatever and whenever it is.
Dude, let it go and quit trying to make Frontier 2.0 a thing, let alone an investment opportunity. For one, every set since RTR has been printed into the ground, so any sort of possible demand for these bogus "staples" would be spearheaded by the likes of SCG/CF/etc inflating prices to create a false sense of scarcity. That and bozos who think that their treasure trove of Siege Rhinos will one day let them cash in and retire early. Second, it would actually require player interest; if you think players would ditch Modern in favor of a format where Transgress the Mind is a top-tier staple, then I have a stack of Alpha Volcanic Islands you might be interested in. So long as the game maintains a healthy player base, it wouldn't be surprising to see new WoTC-supported formats at some point in the future, however, playing Nancy Drew and speculating on cards for a speculated format is an utter waste of time and has absolutely nothing to do with modern prices. Let's drop this nonsense.
Btw, shoot me a PM if you're interested in those Alpha Volcanic Islands.
Just like Modern players made decks for Frontier? Standard? I dont, and neither do the Modern players I play with.
Your first line is EXACTLY the selling point for Frontier, but its a transient one. Cards come in a limited Supply. Standard Staples reach $20-30 with regularity. Put ANOTHER strain on that supply? Its no longer cheap for some people.
Yes a new format will come in time, but it wont meet goals of cost, it will be to hide from mechanics and cards that certain players refuse to accept, things like Dredge, Storm, and Blood Moon.
Wizards wants an eternal format that has cards they are willing to reprint through standard. Right now modern has plenty of cards that they have on watch lists, have banned, or are just too powerful for their tastes. If they make a format that they can control and encourages people to buy into more standard, they will do it. Since modern is every new border card from a standard set they don't even have to say they are stopping support of modern in the long run.
Source?
They want a format that Standard can impact, and it does with EVERY set.
There isn't an exact source, but if you look through the older articles they have been talking about trying to create more generic cards that they can reprint that aren't set specific. It was a while ago when they did the articles, but basically they realize there is a problem with trying to create entirely new sets of cards just as much as the opposite direction of doing nothing but reprints. To be frank, this is probably why they decided to bring core sets back. It lets them make set specific cards and if something happens to get played a lot and they have to reprint it for longer running formats they can do it through core sets. Without core sets it actually makes it harder for them to reprint cards being played in modern as they can only fit so many non-standard legal sets in the year.
Modern's biggest issue is that there's tremendous demand on a small subset of very powerful cards and wizards own reprinting policies and focus on limited / draft is preventing them from properly capping costs in the paper market. If all optimized blue decks that are heavily played in modern use 4x Snapcaster Mage and wizards R&D decides that the card is mythic level, the entire modern community gets screwed because there's zero way to get enough copies out in a masters product at mythic level rarity. To keep card prices in check in a format where the demand is just this high, they have to supply more of the right cards when that demand is going high.
There are VERY few individuals that really want to spend 50+ or even 30+ dollars on a single card. The truth is, people are mostly doing it because they are being forced into doing it or feel they are being forced into doing it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
That's not a very strong correlation. Look at how many cards they print in each set, and then imagine the wasted cycles in spinning up all that chaff over and over and over.
You work in Software yes? It would be like rewriting minor functions for every method call, but requiring them to be slightly different, the wasted time must be enormous.
Core sets are being brought back to put strong generic answers into the constructed scene. From what I just saw they once again have a dumpster fire of a meta in Standard, (limited card pools, what are you going to do?) so yeah. Diversify your answers in a non-specific core set, then let your Designers go wild in the expansion sets.
Has nothing to do with wanting an eternally re-printable stack of slightly under powered cards they 'like'.
That's not a very strong correlation. Look at how many cards they print in each set, and then imagine the wasted cycles in spinning up all that chaff over and over and over.
You work in Software yes? It would be like rewriting minor functions for every method call, but requiring them to be slightly different, the wasted time must be enormous.
Core sets are being brought back to put strong generic answers into the constructed scene. From what I just saw they once again have a dumpster fire of a meta in Standard, (limited card pools, what are you going to do?) so yeah. Diversify your answers in a non-specific core set, then let your Designers go wild in the expansion sets.
Has nothing to do with wanting an eternally re-printable stack of slightly under powered cards they 'like'.
Your counter statement sounds like arguing for arguments sake more than anything. They don't want functional reprints of cards if they can help it because of 8x or 12x of a single card leading to consistency issues and the few times they do it, it is in the draft chaff that no one really cares about. Second, if a card gets popular in an eternal format they don't want the prices to rage out of control anymore than the players do because it causes hell when the R&D team have to put together secondary products with set cards like Commander decks. Generic cards that can be skinned to whatever setting they are printing solves a lot of problems the company is having at the moment and has positive implications for modern.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Anyone know if Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is being powered by modern play on the price or standard? It seems like it mostly sees a two of right now and with rotation coming close I'm kind of wondering if it is worth waiting on this or not for a bigger price drop. I don't think I've seen it too much at my LGS recently in any form.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm not arguing to argue. You are saying they want to be able to print Modern cards in Standard. I'm saying they want to print 'Eternally Standard' level cards in Standard.
Your point is relevant to Standard, and a future format which doesnt exist. They want to be able to lean on Shock (then again look at the last Top 8 for Standard lol) and other lesser versions of Cards to have a set of staples they are comfortable with. No argument there from me.
The point we differ on, is that you think they want Modern level cards to reprint in Standard, when...thats pretty pointless if you have Masters sets you can literally load up with value, and print money with.
(Note to Mods: This is all relevant to Price, it is about the reprint paths Wizards chooses)
This part here.
Generic cards that can be skinned to whatever setting they are printing solves a lot of problems the company is having at the moment and has positive implications for modern.
Is right, up to the 'positive implications for modern'.
Print shock in every set from now till the end of time, its still not Bolt, and its still draft chaff as far as Modern is concerned, just like every other 'likely reprint' they would put in Standard.
Until they start putting Goyf, Bob, Noble, and the like into Standard sets you are just off target. They are talking about cards like Shock not Lightning Bolt, cards like Essence Scatter, not even Mana Leak.
We agree they want to have a catalog of reprint viable options. We disagree that those can or should be Modern relevant. They wont be, 99% of the time.
I'd rather MM17 and future masters sets just get "extra" print runs like Eternal Masters did. I'm still holding out that in three months that sort of announcement will drop.
I'm not arguing to argue. You are saying they want to be able to print Modern cards in Standard. I'm saying they want to print 'Eternally Standard' level cards in Standard.
Your point is relevant to Standard, and a future format which doesnt exist. They want to be able to lean on Shock (then again look at the last Top 8 for Standard lol) and other lesser versions of Cards to have a set of staples they are comfortable with. No argument there from me.
The point we differ on, is that you think they want Modern level cards to reprint in Standard, when...thats pretty pointless if you have Masters sets you can literally load up with value, and print money with.
(Note to Mods: This is all relevant to Price, it is about the reprint paths Wizards chooses)
This part here.
Generic cards that can be skinned to whatever setting they are printing solves a lot of problems the company is having at the moment and has positive implications for modern.
Is right, up to the 'positive implications for modern'.
Print shock in every set from now till the end of time, its still not Bolt, and its still draft chaff as far as Modern is concerned, just like every other 'likely reprint' they would put in Standard.
Until they start putting Goyf, Bob, Noble, and the like into Standard sets you are just off target. They are talking about cards like Shock not Lightning Bolt, cards like Essence Scatter, not even Mana Leak.
We agree they want to have a catalog of reprint viable options. We disagree that those can or should be Modern relevant. They wont be, 99% of the time.
That's kind of why I'm thinking wizards might make a move to try and build a new non-rotating format. Also one big misunderstanding is what would really happen if they did do this. While I'm mentioning how they would go about ending modern if they intended to do it, it's far more likely they end legacy first and just go casual -> modern (replaces legacy) -> new non-rotating format -> standard, with priorities going from right to left. The format that is going to lose any hope of seeing strictly format specific reprints would be legacy.
If they build a baseline set of reprintable cards that every player owns, they have a format that is price managed for non-rotating, but is engineered to not be very enduring so people will go play standard to get some new thrills. Basically, that new format will probably have rules like "only evergreen mechanics are legal" or along those lines to prevent mad synergy issues like with dredge or delve.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It's from the appearance of more Lands Matter type cards. She has only been printed once in a major set over a decade ago so she's easy to buyout and is a fan favorite in casual play formats like commander and cube. She also appears in a legacy deck if I recall, though I'm not sure if she was used heavily in a popular modern deck build or not.
Edit: Yeah I just checked, she's probably been bought out to jump her price up a few notches. There are so few copies of her out there she is an easy target for high risk speculation. This is especially true of the judge promo. I think she is a very unsafe buy right now because if I were doing two masters sets, her and Stoneforge Mystic are good low cmc iconic creatures to put in the sets.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm not arguing to argue. You are saying they want to be able to print Modern cards in Standard. I'm saying they want to print 'Eternally Standard' level cards in Standard.
Your point is relevant to Standard, and a future format which doesnt exist. They want to be able to lean on Shock (then again look at the last Top 8 for Standard lol) and other lesser versions of Cards to have a set of staples they are comfortable with. No argument there from me.
The point we differ on, is that you think they want Modern level cards to reprint in Standard, when...thats pretty pointless if you have Masters sets you can literally load up with value, and print money with.
(Note to Mods: This is all relevant to Price, it is about the reprint paths Wizards chooses)
This part here.
Generic cards that can be skinned to whatever setting they are printing solves a lot of problems the company is having at the moment and has positive implications for modern.
Is right, up to the 'positive implications for modern'.
Print shock in every set from now till the end of time, its still not Bolt, and its still draft chaff as far as Modern is concerned, just like every other 'likely reprint' they would put in Standard.
Until they start putting Goyf, Bob, Noble, and the like into Standard sets you are just off target. They are talking about cards like Shock not Lightning Bolt, cards like Essence Scatter, not even Mana Leak.
We agree they want to have a catalog of reprint viable options. We disagree that those can or should be Modern relevant. They wont be, 99% of the time.
That's kind of why I'm thinking wizards might make a move to try and build a new non-rotating format. Also one big misunderstanding is what would really happen if they did do this. While I'm mentioning how they would go about ending modern if they intended to do it, it's far more likely they end legacy first and just go casual -> modern (replaces legacy) -> new non-rotating format -> standard, with priorities going from right to left. The format that is going to lose any hope of seeing strictly format specific reprints would be legacy.
If they build a baseline set of reprintable cards that every player owns, they have a format that is price managed for non-rotating, but is engineered to not be very enduring so people will go play standard to get some new thrills. Basically, that new format will probably have rules like "only evergreen mechanics are legal" or along those lines to prevent mad synergy issues like with dredge or delve.
Thing is, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, needs to change.
Legacy? What support does it get as is? Legacy cards are more warping than Modern.
Modern. Nothing needs to change. The format THRIVES, and Wizards has doubled down on that with their backpedal on GP and PT Modern event counts.
Standard. Its...Standard. If one likes to play a limited number of archetypes, with weaker cards...its there.
Limited/Commander/Kitchen Table - Nothing needs to change, these players will and do play with stuff we would put in recycling bins and seemingly like that.
Not only is there no need that I can see for a new format, but what purpose would it serve Wizards? They would STILL want people playing Standard (or Limited if we are honest!) above all else.
A friend and I were just looking up her prices last night since I told him that I saw a Judge Promo on FB being sold for $16 (actually was wrong; it was Defense of the Heart). He didn't believe me. He was right. I actually had not used mine much since Summer Bloom was banned, although I run 2 in Amulet Titan, which I don't play often.
I agree that it's probably a buyout, perhaps spurned by Todd Steven's Value Town deck.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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Yeah, I do feel that wizards is trying to build and come up with a fixed version of modern. They have a lot of good reasons to do so from price management to card availability. They underestimated how popular and important the non-rotating format was.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern is pretty safe. The only reason Over-Extended was even invented was because of the reserved list for Legacy. If WotC could print unlimited Alpha dual lands along with the other old set staples, there never would have been a Modern. But since all cards in Modern can and mostly have been reprinted, the need for a new format is nil. Prices for Modern staples should follow normal supply-demand fluctuations going forward.
Not only that, Modern is still gaining in popularity. It was easy for marginally attached Legacy players to sell their expensive cards and turn them into Modern staples because prices for reserved Legacy staples will never go down. If people suddenly started selling tons of Modern staples, people would be less incentivized to sell theirs since prices would crash. They'll just hold on to their cards and keep playing tournaments. If anything, they'd buy into the format more at that point, prices would stabilize, and everyone would just keep playing Modern.
There is no fixed Modern.
Affinity -> Improvise? Nope.
Dredge? Nope.
Storm? Nope.
Eldrazi? Nope.
Tron? Nope.
Living End or Restore Balance? Nope.
Decks that make Modern, Modern, simply will never exist in Standard again, unless (Hi Saheeli!) they make mistakes, the same mistakes people try and hide from in Frontier.
Will there be another format? Yes.
Will it be a Modern replacement? They would be stupid to do so.
Spirits
Modern wouldn't go away. Wizards approach to these things is to let things wither on the vine. They will rotate in support for a new format and probably have some minor overlap with Modern, then slowly shift to the new format completely over a five year period or more.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
What would Wizards gain, that would make up for the loss of dropping, Modern support?
Especially now, after not only supporting Modern with nearly equal shares of events, but ALSO a Pro Tour inclusion? You are looking at decisions which reflect that Wizards is seeing the strength and health of Modern and its importance to their corporate goals.
You dont kill that off, its like when my company under prior leadership waved goodbye to millions in contracts. New leadership came in, went 'wtf did they do that for' and reversed course.
You do not throw away well functioning money making systems, and Modern makes money.
Spirits
Modern is large. It's a lot to learn and remember. It is expensive if you want multiple decks. People will enjoy a format that is far smaller, and not as intensive to learn.
And it keeps things fresh. It will come, like it or not.
Your first line is EXACTLY the selling point for Frontier, but its a transient one. Cards come in a limited Supply. Standard Staples reach $20-30 with regularity. Put ANOTHER strain on that supply? Its no longer cheap for some people.
Yes a new format will come in time, but it wont meet goals of cost, it will be to hide from mechanics and cards that certain players refuse to accept, things like Dredge, Storm, and Blood Moon.
Spirits
Wizards wants an eternal format that has cards they are willing to reprint through standard. Right now modern has plenty of cards that they have on watch lists, have banned, or are just too powerful for their tastes. If they make a format that they can control and encourages people to buy into more standard, they will do it. Since modern is every new border card from a standard set they don't even have to say they are stopping support of modern in the long run.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Its called Standard.
Modern isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. It has high interest and decent support through Wizards. A new sanctioned constructed format would just cannabalize sales from either Modern, Standard or both. It could happen someday, but that day is far into the future.
Lastly, I think we may need a mod to step in as this is veering off the Modern Prices track.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Modern is not that expensive, especially compared to the other eternal formats. It's been great how extra printings have kept prices down on cards like Thoughtseize and Death's Shadow. Even Tarmogoyf has had its price slashed in half.
Source?
They want a format that Standard can impact, and it does with EVERY set.
Spirits
Dude, let it go and quit trying to make Frontier 2.0 a thing, let alone an investment opportunity. For one, every set since RTR has been printed into the ground, so any sort of possible demand for these bogus "staples" would be spearheaded by the likes of SCG/CF/etc inflating prices to create a false sense of scarcity. That and bozos who think that their treasure trove of Siege Rhinos will one day let them cash in and retire early. Second, it would actually require player interest; if you think players would ditch Modern in favor of a format where Transgress the Mind is a top-tier staple, then I have a stack of Alpha Volcanic Islands you might be interested in. So long as the game maintains a healthy player base, it wouldn't be surprising to see new WoTC-supported formats at some point in the future, however, playing Nancy Drew and speculating on cards for a speculated format is an utter waste of time and has absolutely nothing to do with modern prices. Let's drop this nonsense.
Btw, shoot me a PM if you're interested in those Alpha Volcanic Islands.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
There isn't an exact source, but if you look through the older articles they have been talking about trying to create more generic cards that they can reprint that aren't set specific. It was a while ago when they did the articles, but basically they realize there is a problem with trying to create entirely new sets of cards just as much as the opposite direction of doing nothing but reprints. To be frank, this is probably why they decided to bring core sets back. It lets them make set specific cards and if something happens to get played a lot and they have to reprint it for longer running formats they can do it through core sets. Without core sets it actually makes it harder for them to reprint cards being played in modern as they can only fit so many non-standard legal sets in the year.
Modern's biggest issue is that there's tremendous demand on a small subset of very powerful cards and wizards own reprinting policies and focus on limited / draft is preventing them from properly capping costs in the paper market. If all optimized blue decks that are heavily played in modern use 4x Snapcaster Mage and wizards R&D decides that the card is mythic level, the entire modern community gets screwed because there's zero way to get enough copies out in a masters product at mythic level rarity. To keep card prices in check in a format where the demand is just this high, they have to supply more of the right cards when that demand is going high.
There are VERY few individuals that really want to spend 50+ or even 30+ dollars on a single card. The truth is, people are mostly doing it because they are being forced into doing it or feel they are being forced into doing it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You work in Software yes? It would be like rewriting minor functions for every method call, but requiring them to be slightly different, the wasted time must be enormous.
Core sets are being brought back to put strong generic answers into the constructed scene. From what I just saw they once again have a dumpster fire of a meta in Standard, (limited card pools, what are you going to do?) so yeah. Diversify your answers in a non-specific core set, then let your Designers go wild in the expansion sets.
Has nothing to do with wanting an eternally re-printable stack of slightly under powered cards they 'like'.
Spirits
Your counter statement sounds like arguing for arguments sake more than anything. They don't want functional reprints of cards if they can help it because of 8x or 12x of a single card leading to consistency issues and the few times they do it, it is in the draft chaff that no one really cares about. Second, if a card gets popular in an eternal format they don't want the prices to rage out of control anymore than the players do because it causes hell when the R&D team have to put together secondary products with set cards like Commander decks. Generic cards that can be skinned to whatever setting they are printing solves a lot of problems the company is having at the moment and has positive implications for modern.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Anyone know if Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is being powered by modern play on the price or standard? It seems like it mostly sees a two of right now and with rotation coming close I'm kind of wondering if it is worth waiting on this or not for a bigger price drop. I don't think I've seen it too much at my LGS recently in any form.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Your point is relevant to Standard, and a future format which doesnt exist. They want to be able to lean on Shock (then again look at the last Top 8 for Standard lol) and other lesser versions of Cards to have a set of staples they are comfortable with. No argument there from me.
The point we differ on, is that you think they want Modern level cards to reprint in Standard, when...thats pretty pointless if you have Masters sets you can literally load up with value, and print money with.
(Note to Mods: This is all relevant to Price, it is about the reprint paths Wizards chooses)
This part here.
Is right, up to the 'positive implications for modern'.
Print shock in every set from now till the end of time, its still not Bolt, and its still draft chaff as far as Modern is concerned, just like every other 'likely reprint' they would put in Standard.
Until they start putting Goyf, Bob, Noble, and the like into Standard sets you are just off target. They are talking about cards like Shock not Lightning Bolt, cards like Essence Scatter, not even Mana Leak.
We agree they want to have a catalog of reprint viable options. We disagree that those can or should be Modern relevant. They wont be, 99% of the time.
Spirits
That's kind of why I'm thinking wizards might make a move to try and build a new non-rotating format. Also one big misunderstanding is what would really happen if they did do this. While I'm mentioning how they would go about ending modern if they intended to do it, it's far more likely they end legacy first and just go casual -> modern (replaces legacy) -> new non-rotating format -> standard, with priorities going from right to left. The format that is going to lose any hope of seeing strictly format specific reprints would be legacy.
If they build a baseline set of reprintable cards that every player owns, they have a format that is price managed for non-rotating, but is engineered to not be very enduring so people will go play standard to get some new thrills. Basically, that new format will probably have rules like "only evergreen mechanics are legal" or along those lines to prevent mad synergy issues like with dredge or delve.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
It's from the appearance of more Lands Matter type cards. She has only been printed once in a major set over a decade ago so she's easy to buyout and is a fan favorite in casual play formats like commander and cube. She also appears in a legacy deck if I recall, though I'm not sure if she was used heavily in a popular modern deck build or not.
Edit: Yeah I just checked, she's probably been bought out to jump her price up a few notches. There are so few copies of her out there she is an easy target for high risk speculation. This is especially true of the judge promo. I think she is a very unsafe buy right now because if I were doing two masters sets, her and Stoneforge Mystic are good low cmc iconic creatures to put in the sets.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Thing is, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, needs to change.
Legacy? What support does it get as is? Legacy cards are more warping than Modern.
Modern. Nothing needs to change. The format THRIVES, and Wizards has doubled down on that with their backpedal on GP and PT Modern event counts.
Standard. Its...Standard. If one likes to play a limited number of archetypes, with weaker cards...its there.
Limited/Commander/Kitchen Table - Nothing needs to change, these players will and do play with stuff we would put in recycling bins and seemingly like that.
Not only is there no need that I can see for a new format, but what purpose would it serve Wizards? They would STILL want people playing Standard (or Limited if we are honest!) above all else.
Spirits
A friend and I were just looking up her prices last night since I told him that I saw a Judge Promo on FB being sold for $16 (actually was wrong; it was Defense of the Heart). He didn't believe me. He was right. I actually had not used mine much since Summer Bloom was banned, although I run 2 in Amulet Titan, which I don't play often.
I agree that it's probably a buyout, perhaps spurned by Todd Steven's Value Town deck.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/35529_The-Mayor-Of-Value-Town.html
It's very good with Ramunap Excavator and Ghost Quarter.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)