The latest deck that was presented to us by none other the saffron Olive is going to cause some spikes. If you want parts get them now, mtgo already had almost all the key components see spikes.
Jimminy christmas; what's the brew this time? Nobody wants to believe Frontier was a shill format propagated by the big 4 titans of MTG secondary markets, but these Saffro builds spike prices overnight from a single video. Lucrative secondary market + zero to no regulations = almost guaranteed market manipulation.
Is supply and demand now market manipulation? Please. If people are sycophantic enough to buy every tom, dick, and harry brew that Saffron puts out that's on them. By the way, "regulations" is an idiotic word. What are you going to do? Price cap cards? What regulation would stop people from behaving in the manner they are with Saffron brews? Ya...no. He's popular - people are lemmings for anything not T1, old cards have low supply, and put three and three together and you get higher prices. There's no devil behind the details. If you have a problem with supply and demand, just say that instead of "market manipulation". I'd ask you to define it, but it's the internet and no one wins arguments (this was more of a rant, than a rebuttal).
The latest deck that was presented to us by none other the saffron Olive is going to cause some spikes. If you want parts get them now, mtgo already had almost all the key components see spikes.
Jimminy christmas; what's the brew this time? Nobody wants to believe Frontier was a shill format propagated by the big 4 titans of MTG secondary markets, but these Saffro builds spike prices overnight from a single video. Lucrative secondary market + zero to no regulations = almost guaranteed market manipulation.
Is supply and demand now market manipulation? Please. If people are sycophantic enough to buy every tom, dick, and harry brew that Saffron puts out that's on them. By the way, "regulations" is an idiotic word. What are you going to do? Price cap cards? What regulation would stop people from behaving in the manner they are with Saffron brews? Ya...no. He's popular - people are lemmings for anything not T1, old cards have low supply, and put three and three together and you get higher prices. There's no devil behind the details. If you have a problem with supply and demand, just say that instead of "market manipulation". I'd ask you to define it, but it's the internet and no one wins arguments (this was more of a rant, than a rebuttal).
I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not sure where you got the impression I have a problem with "supply and demand"? The market manipulation was a clear reference to the Frontier farce and how a select few market titans with persuasive power/influence over content creation, and the means to distribute said content, can manipulate the market. I was using the Saffro phenomenon as supporting evidence for my main idea, which appears to have flown over your head. And because you asked so kindly, here's the government's definition of market manipulation:
"Market manipulation is a deliberate attempt to interfere with the free and fair operation of the market and create artificial, false or misleading appearances with respect to the price of, or market for, a security, commodity or currency".
Lastly, what are you trying to convey by saying "regulations" is an idiotic word? I in no way suggested that the MTG secondary market be regulated by the ******* SEC or anything; it was an analogy between the US stock market and MTGs secondary market, which resembles an unregulated microcosm of a typical stock exchange. The main point was that if Saffro can facilitate spikes overnight due to janky brews, the top 3-4 well-known players in the MTG market are absolutely capable of shilling for a fabricated format by "encouraging" the pros/content creators they sponsor to embrace the "format" and inform the masses. Next time, put on your big boy pants and actually read the context of a post if you're going to reply with an embarrassingly off-base response. Cheers.
LOL people are trying to spec on Quillspike right now because of Devoted Druid having another combo. Please please make it spike to 6$ too I have so many copies that I'd like to turn into money.
LOL people are trying to spec on Quillspike right now because of Devoted Druid having another combo. Please please make it spike to 6$ too I have so many copies that I'd like to turn into money.
I hope it does for your sake haha. Sitting on all these bulk Lorwyn/Shadowmoor cards may finally pay off.
The latest deck that was presented to us by none other the saffron Olive is going to cause some spikes. If you want parts get them now, mtgo already had almost all the key components see spikes.
Jimminy christmas; what's the brew this time? Nobody wants to believe Frontier was a shill format propagated by the big 4 titans of MTG secondary markets, but these Saffro builds spike prices overnight from a single video. Lucrative secondary market + zero to no regulations = almost guaranteed market manipulation.
It used to happen with Travis Woo all the time too.
Is there anything left to drive sales of this product?
A bunch of random old EDH cards that are $30-50 for no reason?
I guess this set will include something like Doubling Season, Tooth and Nail, or Sheoldred, Whispering One. These cannot be considered to be Modern staples, but more or less expensive and can be used for other formats.
Right. I also expect Commander and Legacy cards that were printed in Commander decks only, like True Name Nemesis or various popular Commanders. It's something I've always known they would do at some point... but not in a Masters set.
Right. I also expect Commander and Legacy cards that were printed in Commander decks only, like True Name Nemesis or various popular Commanders. It's something I've always known they would do at some point... but not in a Masters set.
Agreed. It sounds like it's meant to be a reprint "catch-all" for random edh stuff and cards that either didn't fit into the other masters sets or have since spiked. And of course, only like 10-15 cards in the set will be playable/sought after. The rest will be garbage that has no use outside of draft. I really hope it turns out to be a worthwhile set, because it's starting to seem like they're just trying to milk the "masters" name dry. I can't think of many non-RL cards that could be reprinted in this new masters set, but couldn't have been fit into ETM/MM17 or MM15 depending on how long they've been planning the set. Considering it's supposed to release in November, I'd say that seems like a likely reason for why MM17 was moved up from the usual summer release to March?
Is there anything left to drive sales of this product?
A bunch of random old EDH cards that are $30-50 for no reason?
I guess this set will include something like Doubling Season, Tooth and Nail, or Sheoldred, Whispering One. These cannot be considered to be Modern staples, but more or less expensive and can be used for other formats.
I agree that we're probably likely to see cards like the ones you mentioned, however, those are all examples of cards which could've easily been included in MM17/ETM/MM15. While not much, I'd venture to say Tooth & Nail has seen more Modern play than Comet Storm. I know it's pointless to hope one day WoTC will finally stop making these sets with drafting in mind, but MM13 is the gold standard for what a premium set should be and it proves that it's possible to make an all-star masters set that's packed with value and oh yeah, it can also be drafted by all 8 people who would want to.
Speaking of Masters sets, has anybody gotten any solid word from an LGS/distributor regarding the MM17 print run? Around release time we heard that the supply wasn't going to be nearly as large as people were falsely reporting, but it's about to be May and you can still have a box shipped and delivered to your door for under $200 w/ AMZ Prime. Not necessarily a bad thing at all, but I vaguely remember MM15 boxes holding pretty firm at/above MSRP at this time during it's lifecycle. You can tell sellers are being stubborn with their pricing, but there has already been quite a bit of new-seller undercutting on TCGplayer for fetch lands and the like, so I'm expecting those prices to start trending down here pretty soon.
So, the ban list announcement is Monday (I think?) and there are a few cards that might come off. If it's Preordain, obviously it jumps somewhere in the $10 range, maybe $15. but people also talk a lot about Stoneforge. if that were to be unbanned, where do you see the GP version shooting to? AV obviously had huge supply issues to get super high, but could SFM hit $50 if unbanned? $100? I just don't think we have anything to base it on, given the time when it was printed/supply.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
So, the ban list announcement is Monday (I think?) and there are a few cards that might come off. If it's Preordain, obviously it jumps somewhere in the $10 range, maybe $15. but people also talk a lot about Stoneforge. if that were to be unbanned, where do you see the GP version shooting to? AV obviously had huge supply issues to get super high, but could SFM hit $50 if unbanned? $100? I just don't think we have anything to base it on, given the time when it was printed/supply.
Stoneforge literally gets discussed before every Modern ban/un-ban announcement that I can recall since its initial ban. Three noticeable price spikes all occurring in the weeks leading up to the January-March announcements of 2014-1016, one for each respective year. I think this gives us some kind of idea about where SFM could settle if it were to see an un-ban. SFM's all-time high was ~$45 in the week leading up to the 2016 announcement. Prior to that, its high was ~$35 leading up the mid-January 2015 announcement. And so it goes. Taking hype into account for these values, I'd peg it around ~$50 once the dust settled and what follows would be subject to if/how much success it finds in the format. Thopter Foundry saw an enormous spike following its unban, but since the combo didn't take off as many thought it would, copies can now be had for pennies (even prior to the 2016 Commander reprint). IME, these pre-ban announcement price spikes just identify which cards you should liquidate since the hype rarely turns out into anything more; sell SFMs in late December and pick them back up in June then repeat. I'm not sure if it's due to the new banlist announcement schedule or something else, but that cycle seems to have ended (as far as SFM goes) and it's possible to pick her up for under $10 currently. Although it's a great time to buy into SFM (assuming an unban actually happens), I consider Batterskull to be the safer target. Both its OG printing and GP foil are sitting around ~$15 and if SFM is named, B.Skull will start to climb just as high. Worse case scenario, you're left with a few extra Batterskull which are still Modern playable and have actually started to see an uptick in play as of late.
Ultimately, I think it's quite possible we'll actually see some kind of major unbans this time around, but only after the recent "Iconic Masters" news. Going back to you mentioning AV and the spike it saw post-unban, I can see WoTC using IM to reprint the cards that could see unbans this time around in order to mitigate any secondary market shenanigans (e.g. SFM spiking hard).
So, the only piece I am missing from my Grixis Death's Shadow deck is 2 Liliana, The last Hope. Do you think I should wait for it to rotate? I dont mind waiting, because one friend of mine can borrow this card to me. Or do I buy now?
I was in the same boat, and I scooped two up for $26 a piece on TCGplayer. She's been trending downward slowly for months, but she's not rotating for a while yet and her set rotated out of draft a while ago. Also, I'm also suspecting that a lot more Modern players are going to be picking her up as Shadow grows in popularity in paper, and even non-shadow variants (like Delver) start experimenting with her. Between her ability to kill off important creatures while rolling up, grind out games through recursion, screw combat math, and eat Lingering Souls, she just does so much to shore up some of those decks' biggest weaknesses.
I decided to buy since she probably won't see big drops until rotation, and she has non-zero potential to spike between now and then. Also, my understanding is that Eldritch Moon was opened less as the second set in its block and the only non-masterpiece block since they were introduced, so her supply may be lower because of that.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
So, the only piece I am missing from my Grixis Death's Shadow deck is 2 Liliana, The last Hope. Do you think I should wait for it to rotate? I dont mind waiting, because one friend of mine can borrow this card to me. Or do I buy now?
I was in the same boat, and I scooped two up for $26 a piece on TCGplayer. She's been trending downward slowly for months, but she's not rotating for a while yet and her set rotated out of draft a while ago. Also, I'm also suspecting that a lot more Modern players are going to be picking her up as Shadow grows in popularity in paper, and even non-shadow variants (like Delver) start experimenting with her. Between her ability to kill off important creatures while rolling up, grind out games through recursion, screw combat math, and eat Lingering Souls, she just does so much to shore up some of those decks' biggest weaknesses.
I decided to buy since she probably won't see big drops until rotation, and she has non-zero potential to spike between now and then. Also, my understanding is that Eldritch Moon was opened less as the second set in its block and the only non-masterpiece block since they were introduced, so her supply may be lower because of that.
Liliana rotates in the fall with BfZ. She's only legal for another 5 months which isn't that long in the scope of things.
As with all things - is the money you expect to pay now and your use of the card for 5-6 months outweigh the savings you'd get if you had waited. If you can still play with the card without owning it (and without paying money to do so either), then it's a no-brainer - wait until a couple months after rotation. No one can answer this question except yourself (your utility preferences are only known by you, not anyone else ex ante), so I don't understand why people ask this on forums. Do you want validation for your personal choices? I don't understand. (This is more to the poster above you and not you yourself, but the point stands)
What swords are most likely to see play/spike if SFM gets unbanned? I know Batterskull is the go-to, but iirc there is usually a sword or two in the package.
War and Peace or Light and Shadow - to turn off the most common removal in Modern.
Fire and Ice would be good as a value sword, similar to Feast and Famine.
Body and Mind is very meh. No great protections and mill just isn't that good.
What swords are most likely to see play/spike if SFM gets unbanned? I know Batterskull is the go-to, but iirc there is usually a sword or two in the package.
A valid case could be made for everything except for War and Peace.
There's too much discard and hand sizes are too low for War and Peace to be truly powerful.
Feast and Famine utterly wrecks DSJ and turns off Bolt (due to higher toughness) and Push... the two most played removals in the format.
Light and Shadow is super strong in the meta right now since all the good creatures except Goyf are black and it basically turns off all removal.
Fire and Ice is the strongest in a vacuum.
Body and Mind is also good right now since it provides blockers, though the protections aren't super relevant.
Do you expect the swords to spike a lot, or just move up a little bit? I know they are already popular casual cards, but I think only one of any given sword would be played in a SFM shell, right?
Do you expect the swords to spike a lot, or just move up a little bit? I know they are already popular casual cards, but I think only one of any given sword would be played in a SFM shell, right?
I have them in my cart ready to buy assuming SFM is unbanned. I already have SFM and a BW deadguy deck waiting to slot her into. I would playe fire and ice and light and shadow for sure.
Do you expect the swords to spike a lot, or just move up a little bit? I know they are already popular casual cards, but I think only one of any given sword would be played in a SFM shell, right?
They might move a little, but I doubt they'll move much. They're just 1 of's with SFM, and even then it's not even 1 of the cycle, just 1 of 1-2 of them.
If I had to pick just two I would say Light and Shadow and Fire and Ice have the most potential to move.
It shows the big winners and losers. There may be an option to input your collection and track it.
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pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
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Is supply and demand now market manipulation? Please. If people are sycophantic enough to buy every tom, dick, and harry brew that Saffron puts out that's on them. By the way, "regulations" is an idiotic word. What are you going to do? Price cap cards? What regulation would stop people from behaving in the manner they are with Saffron brews? Ya...no. He's popular - people are lemmings for anything not T1, old cards have low supply, and put three and three together and you get higher prices. There's no devil behind the details. If you have a problem with supply and demand, just say that instead of "market manipulation". I'd ask you to define it, but it's the internet and no one wins arguments (this was more of a rant, than a rebuttal).
I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not sure where you got the impression I have a problem with "supply and demand"? The market manipulation was a clear reference to the Frontier farce and how a select few market titans with persuasive power/influence over content creation, and the means to distribute said content, can manipulate the market. I was using the Saffro phenomenon as supporting evidence for my main idea, which appears to have flown over your head. And because you asked so kindly, here's the government's definition of market manipulation:
"Market manipulation is a deliberate attempt to interfere with the free and fair operation of the market and create artificial, false or misleading appearances with respect to the price of, or market for, a security, commodity or currency".
Lastly, what are you trying to convey by saying "regulations" is an idiotic word? I in no way suggested that the MTG secondary market be regulated by the ******* SEC or anything; it was an analogy between the US stock market and MTGs secondary market, which resembles an unregulated microcosm of a typical stock exchange. The main point was that if Saffro can facilitate spikes overnight due to janky brews, the top 3-4 well-known players in the MTG market are absolutely capable of shilling for a fabricated format by "encouraging" the pros/content creators they sponsor to embrace the "format" and inform the masses. Next time, put on your big boy pants and actually read the context of a post if you're going to reply with an embarrassingly off-base response. Cheers.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
I hope it does for your sake haha. Sitting on all these bulk Lorwyn/Shadowmoor cards may finally pay off.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
It used to happen with Travis Woo all the time too.
Is there anything left to drive sales of this product?
A bunch of random old EDH cards that are $30-50 for no reason?
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I guess this set will include something like Doubling Season, Tooth and Nail, or Sheoldred, Whispering One. These cannot be considered to be Modern staples, but more or less expensive and can be used for other formats.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Agreed. It sounds like it's meant to be a reprint "catch-all" for random edh stuff and cards that either didn't fit into the other masters sets or have since spiked. And of course, only like 10-15 cards in the set will be playable/sought after. The rest will be garbage that has no use outside of draft. I really hope it turns out to be a worthwhile set, because it's starting to seem like they're just trying to milk the "masters" name dry. I can't think of many non-RL cards that could be reprinted in this new masters set, but couldn't have been fit into ETM/MM17 or MM15 depending on how long they've been planning the set. Considering it's supposed to release in November, I'd say that seems like a likely reason for why MM17 was moved up from the usual summer release to March?
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
I agree that we're probably likely to see cards like the ones you mentioned, however, those are all examples of cards which could've easily been included in MM17/ETM/MM15. While not much, I'd venture to say Tooth & Nail has seen more Modern play than Comet Storm. I know it's pointless to hope one day WoTC will finally stop making these sets with drafting in mind, but MM13 is the gold standard for what a premium set should be and it proves that it's possible to make an all-star masters set that's packed with value and oh yeah, it can also be drafted by all 8 people who would want to.
Speaking of Masters sets, has anybody gotten any solid word from an LGS/distributor regarding the MM17 print run? Around release time we heard that the supply wasn't going to be nearly as large as people were falsely reporting, but it's about to be May and you can still have a box shipped and delivered to your door for under $200 w/ AMZ Prime. Not necessarily a bad thing at all, but I vaguely remember MM15 boxes holding pretty firm at/above MSRP at this time during it's lifecycle. You can tell sellers are being stubborn with their pricing, but there has already been quite a bit of new-seller undercutting on TCGplayer for fetch lands and the like, so I'm expecting those prices to start trending down here pretty soon.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Stoneforge literally gets discussed before every Modern ban/un-ban announcement that I can recall since its initial ban. Three noticeable price spikes all occurring in the weeks leading up to the January-March announcements of 2014-1016, one for each respective year. I think this gives us some kind of idea about where SFM could settle if it were to see an un-ban. SFM's all-time high was ~$45 in the week leading up to the 2016 announcement. Prior to that, its high was ~$35 leading up the mid-January 2015 announcement. And so it goes. Taking hype into account for these values, I'd peg it around ~$50 once the dust settled and what follows would be subject to if/how much success it finds in the format. Thopter Foundry saw an enormous spike following its unban, but since the combo didn't take off as many thought it would, copies can now be had for pennies (even prior to the 2016 Commander reprint). IME, these pre-ban announcement price spikes just identify which cards you should liquidate since the hype rarely turns out into anything more; sell SFMs in late December and pick them back up in June then repeat. I'm not sure if it's due to the new banlist announcement schedule or something else, but that cycle seems to have ended (as far as SFM goes) and it's possible to pick her up for under $10 currently. Although it's a great time to buy into SFM (assuming an unban actually happens), I consider Batterskull to be the safer target. Both its OG printing and GP foil are sitting around ~$15 and if SFM is named, B.Skull will start to climb just as high. Worse case scenario, you're left with a few extra Batterskull which are still Modern playable and have actually started to see an uptick in play as of late.
Ultimately, I think it's quite possible we'll actually see some kind of major unbans this time around, but only after the recent "Iconic Masters" news. Going back to you mentioning AV and the spike it saw post-unban, I can see WoTC using IM to reprint the cards that could see unbans this time around in order to mitigate any secondary market shenanigans (e.g. SFM spiking hard).
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
I was in the same boat, and I scooped two up for $26 a piece on TCGplayer. She's been trending downward slowly for months, but she's not rotating for a while yet and her set rotated out of draft a while ago. Also, I'm also suspecting that a lot more Modern players are going to be picking her up as Shadow grows in popularity in paper, and even non-shadow variants (like Delver) start experimenting with her. Between her ability to kill off important creatures while rolling up, grind out games through recursion, screw combat math, and eat Lingering Souls, she just does so much to shore up some of those decks' biggest weaknesses.
I decided to buy since she probably won't see big drops until rotation, and she has non-zero potential to spike between now and then. Also, my understanding is that Eldritch Moon was opened less as the second set in its block and the only non-masterpiece block since they were introduced, so her supply may be lower because of that.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Liliana rotates in the fall with BfZ. She's only legal for another 5 months which isn't that long in the scope of things.
As with all things - is the money you expect to pay now and your use of the card for 5-6 months outweigh the savings you'd get if you had waited. If you can still play with the card without owning it (and without paying money to do so either), then it's a no-brainer - wait until a couple months after rotation. No one can answer this question except yourself (your utility preferences are only known by you, not anyone else ex ante), so I don't understand why people ask this on forums. Do you want validation for your personal choices? I don't understand. (This is more to the poster above you and not you yourself, but the point stands)
Fire and Ice would be good as a value sword, similar to Feast and Famine.
Body and Mind is very meh. No great protections and mill just isn't that good.
A valid case could be made for everything except for War and Peace.
There's too much discard and hand sizes are too low for War and Peace to be truly powerful.
Feast and Famine utterly wrecks DSJ and turns off Bolt (due to higher toughness) and Push... the two most played removals in the format.
Light and Shadow is super strong in the meta right now since all the good creatures except Goyf are black and it basically turns off all removal.
Fire and Ice is the strongest in a vacuum.
Body and Mind is also good right now since it provides blockers, though the protections aren't super relevant.
Do you expect the swords to spike a lot, or just move up a little bit? I know they are already popular casual cards, but I think only one of any given sword would be played in a SFM shell, right?
I have them in my cart ready to buy assuming SFM is unbanned. I already have SFM and a BW deadguy deck waiting to slot her into. I would playe fire and ice and light and shadow for sure.
They might move a little, but I doubt they'll move much. They're just 1 of's with SFM, and even then it's not even 1 of the cycle, just 1 of 1-2 of them.
If I had to pick just two I would say Light and Shadow and Fire and Ice have the most potential to move.
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StaffIt shows the big winners and losers. There may be an option to input your collection and track it.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation