I just had a conversation the other day about Chronicles and MM3, the person who was playing back then, said it was really bad for the game overall because everything that was nearing 20$ ended up being 3-5$ that was notable. So I asked him, was the problem the 15$ drop, or the 75% drop? His response was interesting, and he said he had never looked at it from that perspective before. So I want to know, are you guys fine living in a world where we may have 50$ Goyfs again? is that too much? Remember, Goyf was barely 80$ before the first MM. We already know that MM3 is going to be bigger and better than the predecessors combined when it comes to price and accessibility.
Honestly, I'd be happy to see extremely cheap Modern cards. I own a playset of Snapcaster Mages and if they fall to $20 I'll be happy for the format.
ditto. I am holding my Snaps, i have no desire to sell them, i'm using them. sure I may lose more than half the value from where i picked them up, but this set has so many cards that i want, i have no objection to my collection value dipping, and in any case i don't think it will be for very long. I look forward to more Modern players in my shop
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
I think the optimism around this set making modern affordable and creating a paradise for the format isn't going to work out in the long run.
I think this game will die without chase cards. A lot of people open packs in hopes of winning the lottery. So, while it may allow more people access to tournies, you are going to completely alienate collectors and investors and whether you want to believe it or not, those people are just as important as tourney players.
Im fine with trying to keep card prices around 50 to 60. People who want everything reprinted to the point where everything costs a dollar?
I think those ideals will kill the game long before speculators or investors. I hope they don't print into oblivion.
What is the incentive for LGSs to crack packs for singles? Its not worth anybodys time to crack 100 booster boxes to sell 1 to 5 dollar cards.
I wouldn't worry about the game/format dying for want of chase cards. Confidant was just ruled out, so that's gonna spike, people are going to want these staples so the price will recover, Eidolon is spiking, there will be a whole bunch more. prices work like a properly revolving meta, other things will become expensive as new players are lured in, and these will become expensive again.
And just for the record, to hell with speculators/investors. They will already be the death of eternal formats, they are the reason so many cards are so expensive, actual players get burned by bans, i won't lose sleep over a vulture getting bit by reprints
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
I just had a conversation the other day about Chronicles and MM3, the person who was playing back then, said it was really bad for the game overall because everything that was nearing 20$ ended up being 3-5$ that was notable. So I asked him, was the problem the 15$ drop, or the 75% drop? His response was interesting, and he said he had never looked at it from that perspective before. So I want to know, are you guys fine living in a world where we may have 50$ Goyfs again? is that too much? Remember, Goyf was barely 80$ before the first MM. We already know that MM3 is going to be bigger and better than the predecessors combined when it comes to price and accessibility.
Honestly, I'd be happy to see extremely cheap Modern cards. I own a playset of Snapcaster Mages and if they fall to $20 I'll be happy for the format.
ditto. I am holding my Snaps, i have no desire to sell them, i'm using them. sure I may lose more than half the value from where i picked them up, but this set has so many cards that i want, i have no objection to my collection value dipping, and in any case i don't think it will be for very long. I look forward to more Modern players in my shop
Those investors have nearly all but killed legacy, i'm not shedding a tear
These cards will go back up in price as more people enter the format. Decks are costing a lot of money, this definitely needs to be done to bring people into the format.
Agree'd, especially since burns results have been poor, but with fetchlands reprinted, Guide reprinted, there's no other money pieces except to horde them Eidolons, which were in a small set.
I just had a conversation the other day about Chronicles and MM3, the person who was playing back then, said it was really bad for the game overall because everything that was nearing 20$ ended up being 3-5$ that was notable. So I asked him, was the problem the 15$ drop, or the 75% drop? His response was interesting, and he said he had never looked at it from that perspective before. So I want to know, are you guys fine living in a world where we may have 50$ Goyfs again? is that too much? Remember, Goyf was barely 80$ before the first MM. We already know that MM3 is going to be bigger and better than the predecessors combined when it comes to price and accessibility.
Just FYI, I traded into my future sight goyfs around the time of the first modern masters set and they were around 200 each. This was the main cause of all the hype surrounding the set. They definitely weren't "barely 80" otherwise where did my $800 of trades go! Haha
No, the card did spike post release of the set there was even huge ***** storms on this forum about it.
I believe the reason people gave is MMA made more people get into modern and just owning one goyf is pointless when you need a set.
You probably traded into the goyfs shortly after the set was released that or got incredibly ripped off.
You know that makes a lot of sense! Thanks for reminding me
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
In light of talk of huge print runs, I'm thinking current EV of MM3 may be something like $400 - $500 a box, which will spur a massive amount of sales. All those sales will drop prices to the point that in 3 months time, the EV of MM3 is still $250, which means people will still be drafting it or opening it here and there.
It completely abuses S,PBKASO's reprint equity theory, but they may have research data that told them go for it, or forever forget about cashing the equity in. That tells me that maybe Wizards was being told, make modern cheaper, because it's losing steam as a format.
Or they may burn Modern to the ground, because in November, they will announce a replacement format, leaving all of us holding the bag in a new Legacy-like ghost town.
In the meantime, Modern should pick up a lot of new players. Let's hope they stay with it after their first run-in with Lantern, Tron, Infect or Affinity!
God, I wouldn't be shocked if they were like, "no more modern masters ever, you guys are legacy now"
Also, they reprinted Basilisk collar, what the hell? That wasn't a thing before, was it? Either way, I'd be super pissed if I bought a playset just a week ago when they went to 50 or more a piece.
the spike on eidolon is pure speculation, is just people buying more than they need and creating false demand
I don't think the demand increase is tied to results, just tied to the fact that it is a cheap and relatively competitive deck in Modern. The only expensive pieces were the fetches and Goblin Guide, so reprinting those makes it one of the cheapest competitive decks you can buy. Regardless of its results, that alone will drive a lot of demand.
In my opinion WotC says "well, money is in Standard, so we promote the format like never before (hence all the rewards products like battlelands and those weird packs, and the bannings plus insane cards in the new sets), then we kill modern, but not before launching the most insane money grab in the form of MM17, and then we focus on Standard and selling packs". It's very likely that they'll launch a new format, but always trying to make the most revenues out of it, so they'll try to launch a new set and present a new format where that set will be very important so they sell packs.
There is no reason to start a new format that would also kill Modern. What is the gain? There would be vast swaths of sets that would no longer be relevant to MTG if Modern just went away. It also looks bad to have a product named after a format you killed off.
In my opinion WotC says "well, money is in Standard, so we promote the format like never before (hence all the rewards products like battlelands and those weird packs, and the bannings plus insane cards in the new sets), then we kill modern, but not before launching the most insane money grab in the form of MM17, and then we focus on Standard and selling packs". It's very likely that they'll launch a new format, but always trying to make the most revenues out of it, so they'll try to launch a new set and present a new format where that set will be very important so they sell packs.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
the spike on eidolon is pure speculation, is just people buying more than they need and creating false demand
Speculation, yes, but it's definitely not a shot in the dark or anything. Myself along with a handful of others have been calling an Eidolon spike for months. Burn is the traditional entry point into modern and Eidolon is the logical value choke point now that Goblin Guide is being reprinted. It doesn't really matter whether burn is winning tournaments or not, because it will still be a likely candidate for anybody looking to enter the format.
I had a feeling WoTC would make this set a winner after the MM15 farce, but they're really hitting it out of the park. I'm very surprised to see Death's Shadow, Basilisk Collar, Terminus, Might of Old Krosa & IOK at uncommon, etc. Glad I was able to offload my enemy fetches and various other staples that will be in the set, but I definitely missed my chance to move Death's Shadow; actually sold my Baubles last night and was gonna list the Shadows this evening. Oh well, it's all in the game. Womp womp. Since Craterhoof just got spoiled, that leaves one more spot for a potential Goyf reprint. Since LoTV just got announced and I'm expecting them go out with a bang, I have a feeling Goyf will still be in the set. Other than that, Cavern of Souls is the only other major card I pinned to be in MM17. Depending on print run, this set looks it will absolutely demolish prices in the short term, but I also think that will incentivize a number of players to pick up the format, so I'm interested to see how it shakes out.
By the way, I got a good laugh when I saw WoTC's "**** you" card, Seance.
No kidding. I sold my playset mid-spike apparently; still can't complain considering I was desperate to unload the play set for $55 after Probe's ban.
Kruphix: Wait 1-2 months and I'll be surprised if you can't find a play set of the MM17 copies for <$40-$45. I've heard mixed reviews on the new art and I'd wager that you'll be able to get a great deal on the new art versions come April-May.
Maybe death's shadow and basilisk collar are both flukes, but I found it very strange that they both spiked a month or less before they were spoiled. I realize there is absolutely no way that wizards could have anticipated those spikes, or that they would have been able adjust printing to fit the cards in the set. I just find it very strange that it happened.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Maybe death's shadow and basilisk collar are both flukes, but I found it very strange that they both spiked a month or less before they were spoiled. I realize there is absolutely no way that wizards could have anticipated those spikes, or that they would have been able adjust printing to fit the cards in the set. I just find it very strange that it happened.
Regardless of it being a fluke I'm glad they got reprinted during these conditions. Basilisk Collar is just a really good piece of equipment with the current meta and Death's Shadow is in a similar boat of just being a really good card to have around.
The deal with MM2017 is that a lot of the value has gotten eaten up from the Fetch lands. They could go all out and make the boxes punch well above the MSRP with this set though. It's not like commander where the cards are known all the time and given the print run on this set we're looking at price decreases even at mythic rarity.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
ditto. I am holding my Snaps, i have no desire to sell them, i'm using them. sure I may lose more than half the value from where i picked them up, but this set has so many cards that i want, i have no objection to my collection value dipping, and in any case i don't think it will be for very long. I look forward to more Modern players in my shop
I wouldn't worry about the game/format dying for want of chase cards. Confidant was just ruled out, so that's gonna spike, people are going to want these staples so the price will recover, Eidolon is spiking, there will be a whole bunch more. prices work like a properly revolving meta, other things will become expensive as new players are lured in, and these will become expensive again.
And just for the record, to hell with speculators/investors. They will already be the death of eternal formats, they are the reason so many cards are so expensive, actual players get burned by bans, i won't lose sleep over a vulture getting bit by reprints
Those investors have nearly all but killed legacy, i'm not shedding a tear
These cards will go back up in price as more people enter the format. Decks are costing a lot of money, this definitely needs to be done to bring people into the format.
You know that makes a lot of sense! Thanks for reminding me
It completely abuses S,PBKASO's reprint equity theory, but they may have research data that told them go for it, or forever forget about cashing the equity in. That tells me that maybe Wizards was being told, make modern cheaper, because it's losing steam as a format.
Or they may burn Modern to the ground, because in November, they will announce a replacement format, leaving all of us holding the bag in a new Legacy-like ghost town.
In the meantime, Modern should pick up a lot of new players. Let's hope they stay with it after their first run-in with Lantern, Tron, Infect or Affinity!
Also, they reprinted Basilisk collar, what the hell? That wasn't a thing before, was it? Either way, I'd be super pissed if I bought a playset just a week ago when they went to 50 or more a piece.
I don't think the demand increase is tied to results, just tied to the fact that it is a cheap and relatively competitive deck in Modern. The only expensive pieces were the fetches and Goblin Guide, so reprinting those makes it one of the cheapest competitive decks you can buy. Regardless of its results, that alone will drive a lot of demand.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
No
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Speculation, yes, but it's definitely not a shot in the dark or anything. Myself along with a handful of others have been calling an Eidolon spike for months. Burn is the traditional entry point into modern and Eidolon is the logical value choke point now that Goblin Guide is being reprinted. It doesn't really matter whether burn is winning tournaments or not, because it will still be a likely candidate for anybody looking to enter the format.
I had a feeling WoTC would make this set a winner after the MM15 farce, but they're really hitting it out of the park. I'm very surprised to see Death's Shadow, Basilisk Collar, Terminus, Might of Old Krosa & IOK at uncommon, etc. Glad I was able to offload my enemy fetches and various other staples that will be in the set, but I definitely missed my chance to move Death's Shadow; actually sold my Baubles last night and was gonna list the Shadows this evening. Oh well, it's all in the game. Womp womp. Since Craterhoof just got spoiled, that leaves one more spot for a potential Goyf reprint. Since LoTV just got announced and I'm expecting them go out with a bang, I have a feeling Goyf will still be in the set. Other than that, Cavern of Souls is the only other major card I pinned to be in MM17. Depending on print run, this set looks it will absolutely demolish prices in the short term, but I also think that will incentivize a number of players to pick up the format, so I'm interested to see how it shakes out.
By the way, I got a good laugh when I saw WoTC's "**** you" card, Seance.
No kidding. I sold my playset mid-spike apparently; still can't complain considering I was desperate to unload the play set for $55 after Probe's ban.
Kruphix: Wait 1-2 months and I'll be surprised if you can't find a play set of the MM17 copies for <$40-$45. I've heard mixed reviews on the new art and I'd wager that you'll be able to get a great deal on the new art versions come April-May.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Unless they shift it down to Rare or do more than 2 B Mythics, Bob is for sure out.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
Spirits
Regardless of it being a fluke I'm glad they got reprinted during these conditions. Basilisk Collar is just a really good piece of equipment with the current meta and Death's Shadow is in a similar boat of just being a really good card to have around.
The deal with MM2017 is that a lot of the value has gotten eaten up from the Fetch lands. They could go all out and make the boxes punch well above the MSRP with this set though. It's not like commander where the cards are known all the time and given the print run on this set we're looking at price decreases even at mythic rarity.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!