So here's what I ask you. Instead of thinking about what cards YOU have that can get around needle start thinking about matches you've lost and stop yourself and think. Could 1 needle in hand have prevented my opponent from doing that?
How many matches do I have with the deck I play that needle can net me a 4 for 1 a 1 for 1 and a dead card.
If the answer you come to says that needle in most cases for your deck is a 1 for 1 main and increases in the sideboard then you can still play 1 main board and have 1 or 2 side.
If the answer is its a dead card in most matchups then why is it even in the sideboard of decks?
I know as I play control that if an aggro deck had a 1 of needle and named scalding tarn it could be disastrous because I win through late game play and I need mana fixing. I can't run 1 removal spell for artifacts because I need other answers for other cards. If I played vs affinity and first turn they dropped a few creeps and a needle naming tarn even after they saw me crack one. They would gain a 3 for 1 on me and I would be hard pressed to likely get my land in order to cast my heavy 3 blue casts unless I had a good mana draw. Beyond that I would be hard pressed to keep my instant at end of turn up because I would be short mana from my tarns.
You must have made a serious investment in Pithing Needles to be on your soapbox this long. I saw your thread ranting about this in General and now it's here. It's a good card, nobody is going to argue against that, but many good cards don't get played at all. A card being good doesn't make it a maindeck card. Pithing Needle has been, and always will be, a minimal sideboard card for nearly any deck. Maybe you should realize that you are the one not seeing what Pithing Needle is here rather than assuming that it is everybody else has missed what it is. Take your loss on a bad profit speculation and use it as a lesson to do some more research beforehand.
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Really, the best card for shutting down pod is Torpor Orb, not only does it shut down all their creatures ETB abilities, but it also helps against things like Snapcaster Mage, etc.
Torpor Orb actually just rose in price a little bit, perhaps that's where your money should've been?
lol yay
i bought like 20 in november
I want pithing needle to be good, but its really better as a niche card for mono colored decks to answer things they shouldnt be able to. Like if your deck is really bad against tron, you can name karn. Or, your deck can go toe to toe with UWR control except for those colonnades... The instances are few and far between. Sure, where it does shine its amazing, but too often than not its just meh.
Its also an awful topdeck when youre in topdeck wars.
So to make this quite simple I just looked at a daily top 6 players with a record of 4-0. In 4 match ups a 1 of needle could of shut down 8 Garruck Wildspeaker, 4 Knight of the Reliquary, and 4 Splinter Twin. With no way to remove the card. 2 of those matches the 1 of Needle would of been a complete dead card vs Burn and Boggles.
The problem w/ naming garruk is its horrible if garruk isnt in play (spending resources for something you that doesnt affect you). KotR is still a beater w/ needle on it, its not overly relevant. Naming twin literally does nothing. Twin gives the ability to the creature it enchants, so you have to hope to get lucky and name the creature he's going to use...
It's obvious he's just trying to promote the card he bought 300+ of to make a profit.
But I'll bite anyway, and explain why having lots of narrow hatecards in your main is a bad idea.
1. It doesnt promote your own plan. Your deck has a plan to win the game, this doesn't help it.
2. It MIGHT do something relevant, or it might do nothing. Name a land? Maybe they never draw that land. Same for all other threats. Not to mention the decks it is completely dead against.
3. It's called a sideboard card because it is a good card, but only in a few matchups. You bring it on when it is great. Not when it "might do something".
4. Even if it DOES do something, like against pod, (if they dont just midrange you or win with chord), it can just be instantly removed later and they can use the pod you thought were locked down.
5. It's a horrible horrible topdeck.
That saying, it IS a good sideboard card, but it's not the holy grail of hidden gems.
Just because a card comes in against almost every opponent doesn't mean it's a main deck card. The card that it replaces is different in every match up. Game one is about following through with your game plan Game two and three are aboutdisrupting your opponents.
Needle is not good main board in a lot of decks. Why? Because it's being reactive, not proactive. You want your initial 60 cards to be entirely geared to win by some means, you don't want your 60 to have really narrow cards like pithing needle to stop other people's decks. Now OP's argument that many decks in modern rely on some form of activated ability to win is a fair one, but still doesn't justify putting pithing needle main board. Pithing needle will never help you win...unless you're playing Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. Then, and only then, is main board pithing needle viable.
As a sideboard card, you can only use it in a deck that will try to interact. That means aggro decks and combo decks really don't want this card because they don't really want to interact with their opponent. Might still be worth a spot for a particular card that may hose your deck, but that would be the only justifiable reason. If you're playing a deck that does try to interact with your opponent, you have to look at what in your main deck doesn't interact with your opponent, and is pithing needle actually going to do something to interact with them. Then pithing needle would be a consideration...but it's only one consideration amongst many others that also have similar effects or deal with similar cards, such as Stony silence. When you think about it, the majority of stuff that would be pithed, Abrupt decay takes care of it for me...plus many other problematic cards. Why would I run a card that dealt with fewer cards...and even possibly get destroyed itself giving my opponent the opportunity to use them again?
Pithing needle is still a decent card, especially in the sideboard, but pretty much any deck will have a better option than pithing needle for any card you would want to pith.
The problem with Pithing Needle is that it is too specific. I think the first time any magic player sees it they think it's the greatest shutdown card ever printed -- 1cmc, colourless, stops abilities of planeswalkers and other silly thing -- what's not to love? Well a lot actually..
This is a card that is ONLY ever viable as a sideboard card (I shouldn't have to elaborate on this, it is obviously not mainboard material) and only in a very specific deck that has room for something like it. You see, it appears to have such a wide reach but it is, in fact, very narrow. I personally would never run the needle. A sideboard can choose to be proactive, reactive, or a combination of both. It needs to push a gameplan over the edge or it needs to make up for the shortcomings of the deck. The simple truth is that there are many better options to handle the shortcomings of a deck than Pithing Needle.
Typically, a good deck can win with more than just one single card. Sure, there are combo decks that do bank on one card to win them the game (i.e. Ad Nauseam combo). The problem with Pithing Needle is that it is easily dealt with by a deck like that because they have built their deck to account for shutdowns (so their combo can go off). A much better answer to a deck relying on a single card would be something along the lines of Thoughtseize or other disruption because those disruption cards have a much larger impact on tempo than Pithing Needle ever could.
I did mention that it does have it's place though. A real shutdown style control deck LOVES Pithing Needle. They have their deck built to follow a game plan that reaches the most decks in the meta. So their sideboard simply extends that reach and they can run the needle happily to let their targeted disruption focus on more important things while the needle covers the specifics. Decks should be built to run a strong gameplan without too many holes in the theory. The sideboard supports the theory by reaching out to help run over or counter another deck's gameplan. Pithing Needle is more often than not, the wrong choice unless the deck is built for it, or you just don't have any other card options (rarely the case though).
Teal Dear: Pithing Needle is a sideboard option for control decks (or for a deck with absolutely no other option). There are simply stronger cards with more reach that can solve a wider range of problems. Pithing Needle is too narrow.
It's obvious he's just trying to promote the card he bought 300+ of to make a profit.
But I'll bite anyway, and explain why having lots of narrow hatecards in your main is a bad idea.
1. It doesnt promote your own plan. Your deck has a plan to win the game, this doesn't help it.
2. It MIGHT do something relevant, or it might do nothing. Name a land? Maybe they never draw that land. Same for all other threats. Not to mention the decks it is completely dead against.
3. It's called a sideboard card because it is a good card, but only in a few matchups. You bring it on when it is great. Not when it "might do something".
4. Even if it DOES do something, like against pod, (if they dont just midrange you or win with chord), it can just be instantly removed later and they can use the pod you thought were locked down.
5. It's a horrible horrible topdeck.
That saying, it IS a good sideboard card, but it's not the holy grail of hidden gems.
This is a good post. It pretty much summarizes the thread.
PS. People fail to see things objectively when they have so much skin in the game (i.e. monteary investment). No real point in arguing with a guy that's not actually listening.
and there was a point in necro'ing this worthless thread?
People fail to see things objectively when they have so much skin in the internet (i.e time investment). No real point in arguing with a guy who's talking to a guy that's stuck a month in the past.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Making a guess and then having potentially no impact on the game isn't what I want from a card in my deck.
I can slam it turn one against splinter twin and name Exarch and then just lose to Pestermite.
I like needle when it can be an active card that you know is seriously negatively affecting your opponents game plan. A blind stab in the dark (even an educated one) isn't enough for me. Especially when trying to name a fetchland that they might never draw or need to use.
This is my issue with it.
It is very powerful alongside Gitaxian Probe but less impressive blind. It also messes up your curve when played early.
Is anyone seriously trying to argue that it's a good idea to play Pithing Needle in the mainboard? It's a ludicrous suggestion.
One of the worst things you can do when you're building a deck, is to add cards to the mainboard that could be dead in a significant number of matchups. This is why Lightning Bolt is the most played card in Modern; if you're not facing any creatures to burn, you can always throw it to the dome. It's never dead. This is also why Dreadbore and Hero's Downfall is so good in Standard; if you're facing control, there's at least a PW to hit. Come on OP, this is basic knowledge.
Also, having Pithing Needle in your hand game 1 means that you'll either have to guess what to name (which is a baaad idea), or play it after the threat lands. In many cases that means that they'll be able to activate the PW, Pod or whatever once before you needle it.
And keep in mind all this is coming from a guy who absolutely loves Pithing Needle. I religiously force one in the sideboard of every deck just because it's a decent answer to so many different things, and because it's fun to keep finding new things to name. It's one of those cards that isn't fantastic against anything, but decent against a lot of things.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
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How many matches do I have with the deck I play that needle can net me a 4 for 1 a 1 for 1 and a dead card.
If the answer you come to says that needle in most cases for your deck is a 1 for 1 main and increases in the sideboard then you can still play 1 main board and have 1 or 2 side.
If the answer is its a dead card in most matchups then why is it even in the sideboard of decks?
I know as I play control that if an aggro deck had a 1 of needle and named scalding tarn it could be disastrous because I win through late game play and I need mana fixing. I can't run 1 removal spell for artifacts because I need other answers for other cards. If I played vs affinity and first turn they dropped a few creeps and a needle naming tarn even after they saw me crack one. They would gain a 3 for 1 on me and I would be hard pressed to likely get my land in order to cast my heavy 3 blue casts unless I had a good mana draw. Beyond that I would be hard pressed to keep my instant at end of turn up because I would be short mana from my tarns.
Modern
xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW
UWGBantUWG
GWRNaya ZooRWG
lol yay
i bought like 20 in november
I want pithing needle to be good, but its really better as a niche card for mono colored decks to answer things they shouldnt be able to. Like if your deck is really bad against tron, you can name karn. Or, your deck can go toe to toe with UWR control except for those colonnades... The instances are few and far between. Sure, where it does shine its amazing, but too often than not its just meh.
Its also an awful topdeck when youre in topdeck wars.
The problem w/ naming garruk is its horrible if garruk isnt in play (spending resources for something you that doesnt affect you). KotR is still a beater w/ needle on it, its not overly relevant. Naming twin literally does nothing. Twin gives the ability to the creature it enchants, so you have to hope to get lucky and name the creature he's going to use...
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But I'll bite anyway, and explain why having lots of narrow hatecards in your main is a bad idea.
1. It doesnt promote your own plan. Your deck has a plan to win the game, this doesn't help it.
2. It MIGHT do something relevant, or it might do nothing. Name a land? Maybe they never draw that land. Same for all other threats. Not to mention the decks it is completely dead against.
3. It's called a sideboard card because it is a good card, but only in a few matchups. You bring it on when it is great. Not when it "might do something".
4. Even if it DOES do something, like against pod, (if they dont just midrange you or win with chord), it can just be instantly removed later and they can use the pod you thought were locked down.
5. It's a horrible horrible topdeck.
That saying, it IS a good sideboard card, but it's not the holy grail of hidden gems.
As a sideboard card, you can only use it in a deck that will try to interact. That means aggro decks and combo decks really don't want this card because they don't really want to interact with their opponent. Might still be worth a spot for a particular card that may hose your deck, but that would be the only justifiable reason. If you're playing a deck that does try to interact with your opponent, you have to look at what in your main deck doesn't interact with your opponent, and is pithing needle actually going to do something to interact with them. Then pithing needle would be a consideration...but it's only one consideration amongst many others that also have similar effects or deal with similar cards, such as Stony silence. When you think about it, the majority of stuff that would be pithed, Abrupt decay takes care of it for me...plus many other problematic cards. Why would I run a card that dealt with fewer cards...and even possibly get destroyed itself giving my opponent the opportunity to use them again?
Pithing needle is still a decent card, especially in the sideboard, but pretty much any deck will have a better option than pithing needle for any card you would want to pith.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Discarding lands is an activated non-mana ability correct? (its weird bc its like the only instant with an activated ability)
This is a card that is ONLY ever viable as a sideboard card (I shouldn't have to elaborate on this, it is obviously not mainboard material) and only in a very specific deck that has room for something like it. You see, it appears to have such a wide reach but it is, in fact, very narrow. I personally would never run the needle. A sideboard can choose to be proactive, reactive, or a combination of both. It needs to push a gameplan over the edge or it needs to make up for the shortcomings of the deck. The simple truth is that there are many better options to handle the shortcomings of a deck than Pithing Needle.
Just as an example: Need to stop affinity? no need for Pithing Needle, use Stony Silence instead. What you'll find is that Stony Silence is also a great answer to Birthing Pod. Now, I understand that not every deck runs white, so as a second argument, Hurkyl's Recall, Shatterstorm, and even Creeping Corrosion all solve your problem for good whereas Pithing Needle is just a one trick pony that only stops one single card.
Typically, a good deck can win with more than just one single card. Sure, there are combo decks that do bank on one card to win them the game (i.e. Ad Nauseam combo). The problem with Pithing Needle is that it is easily dealt with by a deck like that because they have built their deck to account for shutdowns (so their combo can go off). A much better answer to a deck relying on a single card would be something along the lines of Thoughtseize or other disruption because those disruption cards have a much larger impact on tempo than Pithing Needle ever could.
I did mention that it does have it's place though. A real shutdown style control deck LOVES Pithing Needle. They have their deck built to follow a game plan that reaches the most decks in the meta. So their sideboard simply extends that reach and they can run the needle happily to let their targeted disruption focus on more important things while the needle covers the specifics. Decks should be built to run a strong gameplan without too many holes in the theory. The sideboard supports the theory by reaching out to help run over or counter another deck's gameplan. Pithing Needle is more often than not, the wrong choice unless the deck is built for it, or you just don't have any other card options (rarely the case though).
Teal Dear: Pithing Needle is a sideboard option for control decks (or for a deck with absolutely no other option). There are simply stronger cards with more reach that can solve a wider range of problems. Pithing Needle is too narrow.
This is a good post. It pretty much summarizes the thread.
PS. People fail to see things objectively when they have so much skin in the game (i.e. monteary investment). No real point in arguing with a guy that's not actually listening.
Modern
xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW
UWGBantUWG
GWRNaya ZooRWG
People fail to see things objectively when they have so much skin in the internet (i.e time investment). No real point in arguing with a guy who's talking to a guy that's stuck a month in the past.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
This is my issue with it.
It is very powerful alongside Gitaxian Probe but less impressive blind. It also messes up your curve when played early.
One of the worst things you can do when you're building a deck, is to add cards to the mainboard that could be dead in a significant number of matchups. This is why Lightning Bolt is the most played card in Modern; if you're not facing any creatures to burn, you can always throw it to the dome. It's never dead. This is also why Dreadbore and Hero's Downfall is so good in Standard; if you're facing control, there's at least a PW to hit. Come on OP, this is basic knowledge.
Also, having Pithing Needle in your hand game 1 means that you'll either have to guess what to name (which is a baaad idea), or play it after the threat lands. In many cases that means that they'll be able to activate the PW, Pod or whatever once before you needle it.
And keep in mind all this is coming from a guy who absolutely loves Pithing Needle. I religiously force one in the sideboard of every deck just because it's a decent answer to so many different things, and because it's fun to keep finding new things to name. It's one of those cards that isn't fantastic against anything, but decent against a lot of things.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'