I'm looking to get into modern after a long time off of standard. When I played Krark-Clan was so much fun in standard and figured with the bigger card pool it would be good in standard. Is it viable in modern or are all the counterspells making it too fragile?
I saw it was fairly cheap to make and figured it be a good way to get into modern.
The deck relies on getting Ironworks out and many cheap artifact cantrips to eventually gain enough many to cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or enough spells cast for a lethal Grapeshot.
Of course, this is only my humble opinion and maybe I'm just not "getting" this deck list - which has happened before.
It's not just your humble opinion, it's truth. That version wants to be a jack of all trades and that just doesn't work when your main core is a combo deck. Sadly some people will pick up on that deck, play it, and then says that KCI eggs is inconsistent. It's not inconsistent at all. It only takes some practice (like all major combo decks take) and not watering down your list doing durdle type stuff.
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Modern xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW UWGBantUWG GWRNaya ZooRWG
I beg to differ with regards to that list. Iirc thats the list that went 7-3 in the recent PT. Its a different version of the deck to be sure, but I'm not convinced its "weaker". Its like the "tempo" version of the deck, that is, more resilient to disruption but not as explosive.
Id make a categorical rebuttal for each of the "poor" card choices you enumerated (and bow they are closer to "correct" of im understanding what it is really that the list is trying to do), but Im on my phone and its a massive pain to type.
I've been playing my Neo-Eggs list for a while now. The deck only "fails" either when I just can't draw KCI in time, or if they know what to counter g2/3. I've actually fizzled only once, maybe twice ever. It's the one deck that looks inconsistent when you glance a list, but is ridiculously consistent in practice.
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xMage: Jankmaster Commander - Now Playing WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUWRHomura, Human AscendantRRGBorborygmos EnragedGRURMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRBURSaheeli, the GiftedRUWRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
I apologize in advanced for the wall-of-text...
(Also, apparently my grammar and spelling. But I'm too lazy to go through the entire thing again so what the hey)
@TequilaFlavor -
In chronological order:
-The 20 land 4 mox setup is there because, as i said, the deck is less interested in "going-off" and more interested in playing a progressive game plan as indicated by...
-3x Emrakul (and more importantly: 2x tezz the seeker). Why the need for an increased win-con count? Because the idea isn't to drop KCI into OtV/Reward, it's to play a "fair" game with minimal cantripping (as indicated by the lower eggs count, and more importantly, the inclusion of mindstone [i.e. the option to filter is still there, but the acceleration effect is more the objective]). With this in mind, a win-con that "needs" you to draw your entire deck is out (pyrite and to a lesser extent; grapeshot), and the 18-21 (assuming 1 fetch into shockland) mana needed to cast a lethal banefire is a SIGNIFICANT (read: + ~20%) increase in mana needed to win over the 15 An emmy needs.
-The mixing of urza lands with citadels/glimmer void has 2 explanations. First, the deck has a back-up tron plan to generate the 15 mana for emmy. The glimmervoid/darksteel is there to aid in hitting metalcraft for opal, which is presumably a core engine in the deck as there are 4. He WANTS to draw into them as often as possible, and the deck is tuned to take full advantage of them (i.e. the inclusion of artifact lands).
-The use of more than 2 win-cons has been discussed above (he isn't "combo", the decreased eggs count necessitating an increase in ways to naturally draw into key cards).
-Remand has more utility than silence in a list that wants to play "fair". Plus it's card draw that is lost to the decreased eggs count. Swan song similarly lends itself more to an "all-in" approach.
-I assume faith's reward wass cut because you don't actually get a turn where you "combo-off". Its slowly going through eggs, then turning the 6 mana OtV into a very expensive Rite of Flame for emrakul/s.
-Since the deck is already playing counters and (presumably) holding back mana, an instant speed form of card draw (Thirst for Knowledge) is going to be beneficial to you. Thoughtcast probably comes down a turn later than thirst, and while serum visions is good draw filtering, its sorcery speed, and if you were gonna go that route anyways, why not just go for more eggs?
-Blood moon isnt nearly as crippling as you think. The critical CMC for the deck is a mere 4 mana, and the deck runs 7 ways to accelerate into 4 mana on T3. If you read through the breakfast at urza's thread, its oft repeated that Urza is just a plan b and not necessary for the deck to function. More over, the deck is NOT color screwed by blood moon much if at all since we run 8 chromatics and 4 prisms to color filter. The triple blue on Cryptic however doesn't play quite as well as the 4 colorless on KCI. And besides, there's only one copy (the more pertinent question regarding the inclusion of blood moon imo.)
-Tezzeret the Seeker is a multi-tasker, and as we've established, the deck isn't a "combo" deck per se. I can see him going out in MUs such as Zoo, but staying in and wreaking havoc in an MU such as UWR (which is a pretty terrible MU for the all-in combo version of the deck).
-Admittedly, Rest for the Weary is questionable. But I guess it buys you that turn you need vs heavy aggro, and is relevant in more MUs than say, leyline of sanctity. Wurmcoil is close to fundamentally the same as Emrakul in the "small" Zoo/ RDW MU. The fact that he can come down T3 off of tron, or minimal acceleration from KCI is a big bonus over Emmy. Phyrexian Unlife is also pretty questionable. Maybe there's some corner case interaction with it and one of the combos floating around? At any rate, it performs the same function as rest for the weary.
-Glimmervoid is superior to adakar wastes in a list tuned to activate metalcraft.
To summarize:
From my understanding by just looking at the list (I admittedly have no play testing experience with the deck whatsoever), It plays a fundamentally different game from the "typical" eggs decks, but with the occasional luckily-draw-everything-you-need-and-win-T3 explosiveness kept in. While that sort of explosiveness is less consistent, the list looks more tuned to take things slower, have more tricks up its sleeves (which stands to reason because if you are a pro player, you want a deck where you are able to leverage your skill), but still win with just as much prejudice as typical eggs lists.
As an analogy, the list above is "Tempo-twin" and the lists everyone is used to is "All-in twin".
Well, plan b is actually tezz overrun if I'm looking at it correctly. I can't say which decklist is better, but what I can tell you is to not disregard the deck so easily.
Meant to respond to this sooner. Since I "made" (and I use the term loosely... others did all the hard work) the eggs list/primer that got linked above.
Poached Eggs is a pretty good eggs list, it plays far more like traditional eggs than anything else, which comes with a unique set of strengths and weaknesses. The biggest difference is that you're more vulnerable to a counterspell in game 1, and that you have fewer cards you can sideboard in game 2.
Lots of people say eggs is hard to play but I've never found it difficult... the deck is just sheer memorization. You need to learn the patterns that lead to the best success rates and not miss your triggers. I guess you could say it's complicated but if you practice with the deck it's not too bad. I've been off the deck for a bit so my success rate is down, but when I'm in practice with it I get about a 90% success rate which is just under the 92% the Second Sunrises lists were able to obtain.
I'm not a fan of the Urza decks, they're functional but from what I've seen and read on them their fizzle rate is much higher on a goldfish, and considerably higher with a real opponent. Their biggest weakness is in the manabase, they're trying to natural tron but don't have the cards dedicated to making that happen often. It also opens them up to land destruction.
I'm not a fan of the Urza decks, they're functional but from what I've seen and read on them their fizzle rate is much higher on a goldfish, and considerably higher with a real opponent. Their biggest weakness is in the manabase, they're trying to natural tron but don't have the cards dedicated to making that happen often. It also opens them up to land destruction.
Aazadan just from this post I know how little you actually understand about the Tron lists. They are no less consistent and no more dependent on lands than the other version. But that's ok think what you want without actually having any personal experience.
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The good ones are able to go off without tron, but then you have to ask yourself... if you're functioning without it why are you including it in the first place when those lands could instead be something else?
I'm not trying to attack the deck, I was simply asked for my opinion, which is that a poached eggs type list is far superior. It's less interactive and more consistent.
The good ones are able to go off without tron, but then you have to ask yourself... if you're functioning without it why are you including it in the first place when those lands could instead be something else?
I'm not trying to attack the deck, I was simply asked for my opinion, which is that a poached eggs type list is far superior. It's less interactive and more consistent.
I'm going to agree with this. Conley Woods, during his 15-hour stream, played Krark-Clan Ironworks with Banefire as his win condition, and did not play Urza lands. It was quick and pretty consistent.
I saw it was fairly cheap to make and figured it be a good way to get into modern.
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The deck relies on getting Ironworks out and many cheap artifact cantrips to eventually gain enough many to cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or enough spells cast for a lethal Grapeshot.
If you don't have an informed opinion you probably shouldn't give one. Just saying.
Modern
xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW
UWGBantUWG
GWRNaya ZooRWG
1 City of Brass
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Glimmervoid
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Krark-Clan Ironworks
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Mox Opal
4 Ichor Wellspring
3 Mind Stone
4 Prophetic Prism
2 Remand
2 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Open the Vaults
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Erase
3 Defense Grid
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Pyroclasm
1 Rest for the Weary
2 Torpor Orb
1 Blood Moon
1 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Wurmcoil Engine
It's not just your humble opinion, it's truth. That version wants to be a jack of all trades and that just doesn't work when your main core is a combo deck. Sadly some people will pick up on that deck, play it, and then says that KCI eggs is inconsistent. It's not inconsistent at all. It only takes some practice (like all major combo decks take) and not watering down your list doing durdle type stuff.
Modern
xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW
UWGBantUWG
GWRNaya ZooRWG
Id make a categorical rebuttal for each of the "poor" card choices you enumerated (and bow they are closer to "correct" of im understanding what it is really that the list is trying to do), but Im on my phone and its a massive pain to type.
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
(Also, apparently my grammar and spelling. But I'm too lazy to go through the entire thing again so what the hey)
@TequilaFlavor -
In chronological order:
-The 20 land 4 mox setup is there because, as i said, the deck is less interested in "going-off" and more interested in playing a progressive game plan as indicated by...
-3x Emrakul (and more importantly: 2x tezz the seeker). Why the need for an increased win-con count? Because the idea isn't to drop KCI into OtV/Reward, it's to play a "fair" game with minimal cantripping (as indicated by the lower eggs count, and more importantly, the inclusion of mindstone [i.e. the option to filter is still there, but the acceleration effect is more the objective]). With this in mind, a win-con that "needs" you to draw your entire deck is out (pyrite and to a lesser extent; grapeshot), and the 18-21 (assuming 1 fetch into shockland) mana needed to cast a lethal banefire is a SIGNIFICANT (read: + ~20%) increase in mana needed to win over the 15 An emmy needs.
-The mixing of urza lands with citadels/glimmer void has 2 explanations. First, the deck has a back-up tron plan to generate the 15 mana for emmy. The glimmervoid/darksteel is there to aid in hitting metalcraft for opal, which is presumably a core engine in the deck as there are 4. He WANTS to draw into them as often as possible, and the deck is tuned to take full advantage of them (i.e. the inclusion of artifact lands).
-The use of more than 2 win-cons has been discussed above (he isn't "combo", the decreased eggs count necessitating an increase in ways to naturally draw into key cards).
-Remand has more utility than silence in a list that wants to play "fair". Plus it's card draw that is lost to the decreased eggs count. Swan song similarly lends itself more to an "all-in" approach.
-I assume faith's reward wass cut because you don't actually get a turn where you "combo-off". Its slowly going through eggs, then turning the 6 mana OtV into a very expensive Rite of Flame for emrakul/s.
-Since the deck is already playing counters and (presumably) holding back mana, an instant speed form of card draw (Thirst for Knowledge) is going to be beneficial to you. Thoughtcast probably comes down a turn later than thirst, and while serum visions is good draw filtering, its sorcery speed, and if you were gonna go that route anyways, why not just go for more eggs?
-Blood moon isnt nearly as crippling as you think. The critical CMC for the deck is a mere 4 mana, and the deck runs 7 ways to accelerate into 4 mana on T3. If you read through the breakfast at urza's thread, its oft repeated that Urza is just a plan b and not necessary for the deck to function. More over, the deck is NOT color screwed by blood moon much if at all since we run 8 chromatics and 4 prisms to color filter. The triple blue on Cryptic however doesn't play quite as well as the 4 colorless on KCI. And besides, there's only one copy (the more pertinent question regarding the inclusion of blood moon imo.)
-Tezzeret the Seeker is a multi-tasker, and as we've established, the deck isn't a "combo" deck per se. I can see him going out in MUs such as Zoo, but staying in and wreaking havoc in an MU such as UWR (which is a pretty terrible MU for the all-in combo version of the deck).
-Admittedly, Rest for the Weary is questionable. But I guess it buys you that turn you need vs heavy aggro, and is relevant in more MUs than say, leyline of sanctity. Wurmcoil is close to fundamentally the same as Emrakul in the "small" Zoo/ RDW MU. The fact that he can come down T3 off of tron, or minimal acceleration from KCI is a big bonus over Emmy. Phyrexian Unlife is also pretty questionable. Maybe there's some corner case interaction with it and one of the combos floating around? At any rate, it performs the same function as rest for the weary.
-Glimmervoid is superior to adakar wastes in a list tuned to activate metalcraft.
To summarize:
From my understanding by just looking at the list (I admittedly have no play testing experience with the deck whatsoever), It plays a fundamentally different game from the "typical" eggs decks, but with the occasional luckily-draw-everything-you-need-and-win-T3 explosiveness kept in. While that sort of explosiveness is less consistent, the list looks more tuned to take things slower, have more tricks up its sleeves (which stands to reason because if you are a pro player, you want a deck where you are able to leverage your skill), but still win with just as much prejudice as typical eggs lists.
As an analogy, the list above is "Tempo-twin" and the lists everyone is used to is "All-in twin".
Poached Eggs is a pretty good eggs list, it plays far more like traditional eggs than anything else, which comes with a unique set of strengths and weaknesses. The biggest difference is that you're more vulnerable to a counterspell in game 1, and that you have fewer cards you can sideboard in game 2.
Lots of people say eggs is hard to play but I've never found it difficult... the deck is just sheer memorization. You need to learn the patterns that lead to the best success rates and not miss your triggers. I guess you could say it's complicated but if you practice with the deck it's not too bad. I've been off the deck for a bit so my success rate is down, but when I'm in practice with it I get about a 90% success rate which is just under the 92% the Second Sunrises lists were able to obtain.
Aazadan just from this post I know how little you actually understand about the Tron lists. They are no less consistent and no more dependent on lands than the other version. But that's ok think what you want without actually having any personal experience.
Modern
xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW
UWGBantUWG
GWRNaya ZooRWG
I'm not trying to attack the deck, I was simply asked for my opinion, which is that a poached eggs type list is far superior. It's less interactive and more consistent.
I'm going to agree with this. Conley Woods, during his 15-hour stream, played Krark-Clan Ironworks with Banefire as his win condition, and did not play Urza lands. It was quick and pretty consistent.