I'm still expecting a Pod dominated top 8. I do think Affinity has a greater chance than I originally thought, but I don't think it will crack top 8, definitely in top 16, but I think a top 8 is unlikely. Zoo will almost certainly show up in the top 8, but I think this will be mostly because of the sheer numbers rather than power. If there is Zoo, then I expect RWU (and possibly Tron) to also be there as they have great creature match ups.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!"
-Anonymous
most faerie decks right now are dedicating 9+ slots to stemming aggro. if they manage a board wipe, it becomes insanely hard for zoo to recover. twin is such an adaptable deck that i wouldn't be surprised to see 1 or 2 copies in the top 8. its tuneability with the possibility of straight up winning out of nowhere will always make it a contender. pod should make top 8. deck is strong and doesn't lose much at all with DRS gone. its just hard to pilot it for a bazillion rounds.
I sort of disagree. By the time faeries can wipe the board, they're typically in burn range already with an active bitterblossom chipping away at their life total. The big issue is that faeries never gets the opportunity to play the tempo game vs. zoo since it's on it's back foot from turn 1 trying to catch up to the 1 mana aggro creatures beating them down. It's also problematic that the only creature that can profitably trade with zoo's creatures is mistbind clique, which is difficult to get off the ground since zoo can burn off so many of the creatures in response to the champion trigger. I've played vs. people sideboarding in spellskites, damnations, swords, batterskulls, or whatever else, but at best, the matchup becomes 50/50, which may not be worth 8+ dedicated slots in the board for. I think faeries will have to mainboard 1-2 batterskulls if they want to have a better creature-aggro matchup, but even then, it's a turn 5 play and leaves them in range of burn after tapping out.
I think you are overestimating Zoo a bit there. It's definately a tough match up (and it might be, I only played against noobs) put even preboard it's winnable. The sideboard hate isn't just for Zoo anyways, as it helps with Hatebears (which can be a MUCH tougher match up, depending on their draw), Affinity etc. as well and you seldom need much vs. control either way.
Edit: Depending on who is starting Fae can wipe the board as soon as T2 if possible (hello EE) although the Zoo player must be quite bad then. Without double Guide T3 explosives followed up by some 1 for 1's should still be sufficient to give you the chance to stabilize.
most faerie decks right now are dedicating 9+ slots to stemming aggro. if they manage a board wipe, it becomes insanely hard for zoo to recover. twin is such an adaptable deck that i wouldn't be surprised to see 1 or 2 copies in the top 8. its tuneability with the possibility of straight up winning out of nowhere will always make it a contender. pod should make top 8. deck is strong and doesn't lose much at all with DRS gone. its just hard to pilot it for a bazillion rounds.
I sort of disagree. By the time faeries can wipe the board, they're typically in burn range already with an active bitterblossom chipping away at their life total. The big issue is that faeries never gets the opportunity to play the tempo game vs. zoo since it's on it's back foot from turn 1 trying to catch up to the 1 mana aggro creatures beating them down. It's also problematic that the only creature that can profitably trade with zoo's creatures is mistbind clique, which is difficult to get off the ground since zoo can burn off so many of the creatures in response to the champion trigger. I've played vs. people sideboarding in spellskites, damnations, swords, batterskulls, or whatever else, but at best, the matchup becomes 50/50, which may not be worth 8+ dedicated slots in the board for. I think faeries will have to mainboard 1-2 batterskulls if they want to have a better creature-aggro matchup, but even then, it's a turn 5 play and leaves them in range of burn after tapping out.
I think you are overestimating Zoo a bit there. It's definately a tough match up (and it might be, I only played against noobs) put even preboard it's winnable. The sideboard hate isn't just for Zoo anyways, as it helps with Hatebears (which can be a MUCH tougher match up, depending on their draw), Affinity etc. as well and you seldom need much vs. control either way.
Edit: Depending on who is starting Fae can wipe the board as soon as T2 if possible (hello EE) although the Zoo player must be quite bad then. Without double Guide T3 explosives followed up by some 1 for 1's should still be sufficient to give you the chance to stabilize.
If you really wanna test it, I can play you. I'm with badd. I've played fae in my testing over 30 times, and lost twice. Its been incredibly lopsided, especially with boro's charms and 3 drops that are fine after wipes.
Edit: seriously. I don't mind the testing We can play on cockatrice if you like. I didnt want it to seem like I was calling you out, but if you dont wanna play against bad zoo players I got the time.
With these nested quotes Im not really sure who is saying what, but UB Fae gets facerolled by Zoo. They can dedicate as many slots to beating aggro as they want. Zoo still facerolls UB Fae. The question is, how much Zoo will there be? The answer to that question will answer whether or not UB Fae is viable. What decks currently check Zoo?
Blindly calling it:
Rogue brew of the event will be a Bant superfriends deck with a Kiora or two and a fistful of Wargates.
I would love for this to happen. Superfriends are my favorite style of deck and to see one take down a Pro Tour, with Wargates and "horribly fails the bolt test" Kiora would just make things right in the world.
It's actually a stupid brew that came to me one day.
Loosely inspired by Nic Fit, it's this unreasonable strategy of trying to be all grindy and rampy and using Eternal Witness to spam Wargates while gradually building up a Planeswalker army somehow headed by Venser.
Like, it's really unreasonable durdle tier stuff but the idea is that it's hard to lose games when you've got 2-3 Planeswalkers online.
Even Kiora's ok as an overcosted Explore when you can just grab her back and play her again. The value adds up after a while!
As someone who loves value durdling, I love this. I've always wanted to make a Savor the Moment Superfriends deck and just, like, go off with value. Can you even imagine Snapcastering back a Savor the Moment with a couple planeswalkers in play? Unghhh....
2 Big Zoo (with KotR)
1 Little Zoo (With BTE)
2 Melira Pod
1 BGx (my bets are on Junk over Jund)
1 Twin (with full 4x Deceiver Exarch, probably the midrange UWR version)
1 Either Bant or BW Tokens
2 Big Zoo (with KotR)
1 Little Zoo (With BTE)
2 Melira Pod
1 BGx (my bets are on Junk over Jund)
1 Twin (with full 4x Deceiver Exarch, probably the midrange UWR version)
1 Either Bant or BW Tokens
Few things:
1) Whats BTE again?
2) Twin with 4 Exarch cannot also be the Midrange UWR version (that im aware of). The 4x Exarch is part of the All-in-Twin deck.
3) You easily have the most disturbing avatar on the forum. It's like some kind of angry mongoloid. Grats!
Yea i was thinking myself that Anger of the Gods may be the breakout modern card this tourney. It wrecks Zoo AND pod pretty hard.
It wrecks small zoo. That is one of the main reason that I believe the Midrange version will put up far better results than the small one. It's more versatile and can handle more thrown at it. Plus it is only SLIGHTLY slower.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW UWGBantUWG GWRNaya ZooRWG
With these nested quotes Im not really sure who is saying what, but UB Fae gets facerolled by Zoo. They can dedicate as many slots to beating aggro as they want. Zoo still facerolls UB Fae. The question is, how much Zoo will there be? The answer to that question will answer whether or not UB Fae is viable. What decks currently check Zoo?
Yea i was thinking myself that Anger of the Gods may be the breakout modern card this tourney. It wrecks Zoo AND pod pretty hard.
We already had access to Firespout, which is easier for such as Tron to cast if required. Some decks such as tempo twin prefer Anger, but if it's Tron that succeeds I'd expect not since pod is already a good matchup and Anger is only really about as successful against zoo as firespout.
With these nested quotes Im not really sure who is saying what, but UB Fae gets facerolled by Zoo. They can dedicate as many slots to beating aggro as they want. Zoo still facerolls UB Fae. The question is, how much Zoo will there be? The answer to that question will answer whether or not UB Fae is viable. What decks currently check Zoo?
Pod, G/W Hatebears, Living End.
This ^
Honestly if Zoo will be played in great numbers it could put results, if not it will be eat by all the pod decks will be there.
- L
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
I'm fully expecting Pod to be the dominant force in this tournament. UB Fae will miss top 8. Zoo will be the biggest percentage of the metagame, as Jund players will just take their Tarmogoyfs to play with the new girl in town. The conflux in the metagame will keep Twin from performing well as a whole, because Twin needs to be constructed against a stable and predictable metagame, but it wouldn't surprise me to see one Twin pilot predict correctly and make top 8. My dark horse pick is Merfolk.
So I'll say that we see Merfolk, Twin, GR Tron, Living End, 2 Pod, 2 Zoo. I'm not going to try to guess which flavors of Pod or Zoo are successful.
Remember, of course, this is a Pro Tour. So 38% of the matches the players will be playing will be Born of the Gods draft.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
With these nested quotes Im not really sure who is saying what, but UB Fae gets facerolled by Zoo. They can dedicate as many slots to beating aggro as they want. Zoo still facerolls UB Fae. The question is, how much Zoo will there be? The answer to that question will answer whether or not UB Fae is viable. What decks currently check Zoo?
Pod, G/W Hatebears, Living End.
This ^
Honestly if Zoo will be played in great numbers it could put results, if not it will be eat by all the pod decks will be there.
- L
Pod isn't as bad of a matchup for Zoo as a lot of people think. I wouldn't use the 1-2 Videos on CFB as a sample size to predict the matchup. I'm not sure it's favorable for Zoo, but I haven't found it to be that far from 50/50 when testing my lists. Path to exile generally eats the big creatures that matter, and all the other creatures in Pod serve as bad chump blockers for zoo's larger creature base. If zoo is playing Grim Lavamancer & Ghor Clan Rampager, the matchup gets a lot easier for them as well.
Personally, the worst matchup I've found for Zoo so far is UWR control. Snapcasters + Helixes + Wraths just makes it really hard to win against. Even with cards like Boros Charm, the matchup is a grind, and not usually favorable unless you're playing a decent amount of hate like Voice of Resurgence. You can't afford to overextend due to the presence of Supreme Verdict, but if you don't put them on a decent clock, they'll start dropping cards like Ajani Vengeant, or just picking off your creatures one by one until they hit a revelation.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find me online - I'm on Cockatrice * Tag - Badd B - Or on MTGO - Tag - Cbus05
I'm fully expecting Pod to be the dominant force in this tournament. UB Fae will miss top 8. Zoo will be the biggest percentage of the metagame, as Jund players will just take their Tarmogoyfs to play with the new girl in town. The conflux in the metagame will keep Twin from performing well as a whole, because Twin needs to be constructed against a stable and predictable metagame, but it wouldn't surprise me to see one Twin pilot predict correctly and make top 8. My dark horse pick is Merfolk.
So I'll say that we see Merfolk, Twin, GR Tron, Living End, 2 Pod, 2 Zoo. I'm not going to try to guess which flavors of Pod or Zoo are successful.
Remember, of course, this is a Pro Tour. So 38% of the matches the players will be playing will be Born of the Gods draft.
Just asking, why isn't anyone giving Hatebears a chance? It has favorable matchups for Zoo, Pod, and Faeries. Even with BGx weakened, it has a very good chance of making top 8.
i really don't think hate bears is that good. if they manage to tax you out of the game, then good for them, but all the hate that people will pack for zoo will also hit them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
Hatebears is just an anti-meta deck, and in my experience in TCG those decks never reach the final tables that often. Sure you ruin a few players' day but often as the competition gets weeded out you find yourself playing better players, piloting better decks.
Sorry, Valanarch, I don't know if G/W Hatebears is close to your heart, but I don't seeing it top8 more with BGx/Jund being weakened.
Hatebears seems good when the meta is non-aggro. It's good against decks like Pod or decks playing a bunch of fetches because they can abuse your deck manipulation. It's hard to have your strategy hate out Zoo simply because it doesn't rely on anything other than casting 1-drop creatures that attack. Like how UWR would need to consistently hit land drops, Zoo doesn't care if you can fog their third land, since they can operate on two. So realistically Hatebears isn't going to be good in the meta. The only reason it can beat Affinity consistently is the same reason any deck can beat them if they try, you hate out artifacts fairly easily if you try.
Pod isn't as bad of a matchup for Zoo as a lot of people think. I wouldn't use the 1-2 Videos on CFB as a sample size to predict the matchup. I'm not sure it's favorable for Zoo, but I haven't found it to be that far from 50/50 when testing my lists. Path to exile generally eats the big creatures that matter, and all the other creatures in Pod serve as bad chump blockers for zoo's larger creature base. If zoo is playing Grim Lavamancer & Ghor Clan Rampager, the matchup gets a lot easier for them as well.
Mmm im no expert on the MU, but it really doesnt seem all that favourable for zoo. Pod tends to play 2+ voices, and 2+ finks, together with acceleration to mitigate life loss from lands, and wall of roots to well, wall.
I dont see how 4 paths can fix that, assuming you draw all 4, and putting enough pressure before they go off, or outvalue you.
Pod isn't as bad of a matchup for Zoo as a lot of people think. I wouldn't use the 1-2 Videos on CFB as a sample size to predict the matchup. I'm not sure it's favorable for Zoo, but I haven't found it to be that far from 50/50 when testing my lists. Path to exile generally eats the big creatures that matter, and all the other creatures in Pod serve as bad chump blockers for zoo's larger creature base. If zoo is playing Grim Lavamancer & Ghor Clan Rampager, the matchup gets a lot easier for them as well.
Mmm im no expert on the MU, but it really doesnt seem all that favourable for zoo. Pod tends to play 2+ voices, and 2+ finks, together with acceleration to mitigate life loss from lands, and wall of roots to well, wall.
I dont see how 4 paths can fix that, assuming you draw all 4, and putting enough pressure before they go off, or outvalue you.
But Voice is typically just a bump in the road, and you have 8-12 cards that can deal with it. Finks is a problem, but what are the odds you draw 1 of 4 cards in the first 3 turns when it matters? That's why the CFB videos sucked, because he drew Finks opening hand almost every game, it was insane. Sure, the Wall of Roots sucks, but basically any removal spell, including Boros Charm, can answer it. And I suspect the Pod person has a tough decision to make whether they want to keep it in play to block or Pod it away, and even if they just cast it on turn 2, I'm still only looking at turn 3 Pod which doesn't seem all that bad. Path, if you play any, is also huge game there since they often rely on their dudes living and getting more value as they Pod them.
I am expecting at least one Griselbrand deck in the Top 8. Griselbrand decks have always threatened to make T8 at Grand Prix events in the days of DRS, and with him gone I can't see the deck just falling flat to random GY hate. Whether using straight Goryo's Vengeance reanimator tactics along with Emrakul, or the more robust Fist of Suns version, this deck seems very well positioned in the metagame. It can go off at instant speed (a boon against Faeries). It can win on turns 2 or 3 without disruption (a boon against Zoo). It has strong matchups against the decks that are most likely to benefit from the DRS ban, such as Melira Pod. Overall, the deck just seems very well positioned.
I am expecting at least one Griselbrand deck in the Top 8. Griselbrand decks have always threatened to make T8 at Grand Prix events in the days of DRS, and with him gone I can't see the deck just falling flat to random GY hate. Whether using straight Goryo's Vengeance reanimator tactics along with Emrakul, or the more robust Fist of Suns version, this deck seems very well positioned in the metagame. It can go off at instant speed (a boon against Faeries). It can win on turns 2 or 3 without disruption (a boon against Zoo). It has strong matchups against the decks that are most likely to benefit from the DRS ban, such as Melira Pod. Overall, the deck just seems very well positioned.
I found the deck is rather inconsistent. Unless more recent versions of the deck are more consistent?
-Anonymous
I think you are overestimating Zoo a bit there. It's definately a tough match up (and it might be, I only played against noobs) put even preboard it's winnable. The sideboard hate isn't just for Zoo anyways, as it helps with Hatebears (which can be a MUCH tougher match up, depending on their draw), Affinity etc. as well and you seldom need much vs. control either way.
Edit: Depending on who is starting Fae can wipe the board as soon as T2 if possible (hello EE) although the Zoo player must be quite bad then. Without double Guide T3 explosives followed up by some 1 for 1's should still be sufficient to give you the chance to stabilize.
If you really wanna test it, I can play you. I'm with badd. I've played fae in my testing over 30 times, and lost twice. Its been incredibly lopsided, especially with boro's charms and 3 drops that are fine after wipes.
Edit: seriously. I don't mind the testing We can play on cockatrice if you like. I didnt want it to seem like I was calling you out, but if you dont wanna play against bad zoo players I got the time.
As someone who loves value durdling, I love this. I've always wanted to make a Savor the Moment Superfriends deck and just, like, go off with value. Can you even imagine Snapcastering back a Savor the Moment with a couple planeswalkers in play? Unghhh....
2x UW Control
1x Zoo
1x Jund
1x Doran
1x Pod
1x BW Tokens
At least I hope there's a good representation of various decks.
2 Big Zoo (with KotR)
1 Little Zoo (With BTE)
2 Melira Pod
1 BGx (my bets are on Junk over Jund)
1 Twin (with full 4x Deceiver Exarch, probably the midrange UWR version)
1 Either Bant or BW Tokens
Few things:
1) Whats BTE again?
2) Twin with 4 Exarch cannot also be the Midrange UWR version (that im aware of). The 4x Exarch is part of the All-in-Twin deck.
3) You easily have the most disturbing avatar on the forum. It's like some kind of angry mongoloid. Grats!
Burning-Tree Emissary.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It wrecks small zoo. That is one of the main reason that I believe the Midrange version will put up far better results than the small one. It's more versatile and can handle more thrown at it. Plus it is only SLIGHTLY slower.
Modern
xWBreakfast at Urza'sxW
UWGBantUWG
GWRNaya ZooRWG
Pod, G/W Hatebears, Living End.
We already had access to Firespout, which is easier for such as Tron to cast if required. Some decks such as tempo twin prefer Anger, but if it's Tron that succeeds I'd expect not since pod is already a good matchup and Anger is only really about as successful against zoo as firespout.
Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
This ^
Honestly if Zoo will be played in great numbers it could put results, if not it will be eat by all the pod decks will be there.
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
So I'll say that we see Merfolk, Twin, GR Tron, Living End, 2 Pod, 2 Zoo. I'm not going to try to guess which flavors of Pod or Zoo are successful.
Remember, of course, this is a Pro Tour. So 38% of the matches the players will be playing will be Born of the Gods draft.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
Pod isn't as bad of a matchup for Zoo as a lot of people think. I wouldn't use the 1-2 Videos on CFB as a sample size to predict the matchup. I'm not sure it's favorable for Zoo, but I haven't found it to be that far from 50/50 when testing my lists. Path to exile generally eats the big creatures that matter, and all the other creatures in Pod serve as bad chump blockers for zoo's larger creature base. If zoo is playing Grim Lavamancer & Ghor Clan Rampager, the matchup gets a lot easier for them as well.
Personally, the worst matchup I've found for Zoo so far is UWR control. Snapcasters + Helixes + Wraths just makes it really hard to win against. Even with cards like Boros Charm, the matchup is a grind, and not usually favorable unless you're playing a decent amount of hate like Voice of Resurgence. You can't afford to overextend due to the presence of Supreme Verdict, but if you don't put them on a decent clock, they'll start dropping cards like Ajani Vengeant, or just picking off your creatures one by one until they hit a revelation.
Just asking, why isn't anyone giving Hatebears a chance? It has favorable matchups for Zoo, Pod, and Faeries. Even with BGx weakened, it has a very good chance of making top 8.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Sorry, Valanarch, I don't know if G/W Hatebears is close to your heart, but I don't seeing it top8 more with BGx/Jund being weakened.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Mmm im no expert on the MU, but it really doesnt seem all that favourable for zoo. Pod tends to play 2+ voices, and 2+ finks, together with acceleration to mitigate life loss from lands, and wall of roots to well, wall.
I dont see how 4 paths can fix that, assuming you draw all 4, and putting enough pressure before they go off, or outvalue you.
But Voice is typically just a bump in the road, and you have 8-12 cards that can deal with it. Finks is a problem, but what are the odds you draw 1 of 4 cards in the first 3 turns when it matters? That's why the CFB videos sucked, because he drew Finks opening hand almost every game, it was insane. Sure, the Wall of Roots sucks, but basically any removal spell, including Boros Charm, can answer it. And I suspect the Pod person has a tough decision to make whether they want to keep it in play to block or Pod it away, and even if they just cast it on turn 2, I'm still only looking at turn 3 Pod which doesn't seem all that bad. Path, if you play any, is also huge game there since they often rely on their dudes living and getting more value as they Pod them.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
I found the deck is rather inconsistent. Unless more recent versions of the deck are more consistent?
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer