FWIW, it's not that Modern can't play the Dredge subgame (Modern pretty much has -the- supply of gravehate cards in the totality of Magic, if I'm not mistaken).
Wizards just doesn't think it's fun for people to be tasked with it.
At least that subgame has more marginal benefit to it than, say, the Bogles subgame. There's more graveyard decks in the format than there are Hexproof-Pants strats, greater incentive to pack those RIPs/RoPs/LeyVoids/etc...
I think 12-post would be fine. they can't get Karn any faster than Tron, and unless I missed something, even though it is a bit better than Tron in most cases, it has the same weaknesses
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If non-interactive decks are such a problem then they should do something about Storm, boogles/hexproof and Infect decks. Those are all not really interactive unless you define interaction as playing your first land and then taking 9 poison damage the following turn.
The funny thing is, they did do something about two of those decks with Blazing Shoal and Seething Song/Rite of Flame banned.
Its turn 3 off of cascade? IDK. Even in Twin it doesn't strike me as that terrible.(Thought it was suspend 3 but it is suspend 4)
The Modern cascade cards are all horrible. Even if BBE was unbanned it still wouldn't work well with cascade because any deck that would be running them together would either be weak to combo because it couldn't run 2-3 mana counterspells or it would have to be a 4 color deck.
I agree. Suppose you could try it in Living End.
That's such a great idea!/sarcasm
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
And sword doesn't feel very right since in the best case scenario of it not breaking anything, it'd be yet another combo combination, even if it'd be played in a control deck, it'd still produce a combo/control deck.
We probably already have too many combo mombo's.
The thing is, while I am of late unsure if Sword is safe, it would not be hard to hate out. Affinity already demands you have art hate. Sword I think would catch a lot of flack.
The thing is, while I am of late unsure if Sword is safe, it would not be hard to hate out. Affinity already demands you have art hate. Sword I think would catch a lot of flack.
It could make tezzeret control viable too which would be awesome. In that shell, yes it would be exceedingly hard to get rid of, but yea without chrome mox the deck moves really slow anyway. I reaaaalllllly don't see how this is worse than twin.
combos in modern, once assembled, typically win on the spot
it would be a different sort of combo than we are used to
as for 12post, the deck is insane. maybe you could ban glimmerpost because that card pushes it over the edge with life gain. its so much easier to drop eldrazi with 12post especially with eye of ugin
12post ruined the initial modern format by saying that if you didn't win by turn 5 you lost. Having emrakul coming down that early consistently is bad for the overall health of the format. This led to the combo dominated PT where everyone aimed to outrace 12post. No point playing fair if it's in the format.
I did some research on 12post and realised it is truely far too strong for the format. Indeed as Nixerator said having Emrakul coming down on turn 5 pretty much ruins all combo decks and allows only for certain decks to exist thus hurting the variety of the format.
Regarding dredge I think that it isn't bad at all for a deck that attacks from a different angle to exist in the format. I already feel good running some amount of Rest in Peace and Gralfdiggers Cage in my sideboard and dredge is exactly the deck that just dies to hate so punishing people that don't have the proper answers in their sideboard seems just about right. Both Storm and a variety of other t1.5 decks break the turn 4 rule but still are allowed to exist.
Being able to break the turn 4 rule vs being able to break the turn 4 rule consistently are two very different things though.
I did some research on 12post and realised it is truely far too strong for the format. Indeed as Nixerator said having Emrakul coming down on turn 5 pretty much ruins all combo decks and allows only for certain decks to exist thus hurting the variety of the format.
Regarding dredge I think that it isn't bad at all for a deck that attacks from a different angle to exist in the format. I already feel good running some amount of Rest in Peace and Gralfdiggers Cage in my sideboard and dredge is exactly the deck that just dies to hate so punishing people that don't have the proper answers in their sideboard seems just about right. Both Storm and a variety of other t1.5 decks break the turn 4 rule but still are allowed to exist.
Yes dredge should exist. As you'll notice though decks like storm (a good comparison since both have tremendous amounts of hate printed against them) have been nerfed as well. The fact of the matter is dredge needs to find a way to exist without dread return. It simply can cast it too fast to realistically hate it out. It SHOULD be given GGT back though, but as for anything else it will have to rely on future printings.
On a more personal level, I don't want to have to devote a gigantic portion of my sideboard to grave hate just to have a fair chance vs dredge. The format becomes unfun when you have to fill your sideboard up with large numbers of specific hate cards just because someone wants to play the solitaire sub game. I don't want to have to remove more side cards for more grave hate (I already run 3 RiP) because I need to draw it by turn two. (Unlike storm twin or heck any other deck barring maybe my affinity hate.)
Why would people want to trade Stoneforge Mystic for Batterskull? I love Batterskull, it is in my sideboard for against aggro and control.
If they unbanned Mystic, they would have to be even more careful with every equipment made from this point on. I would rather have a smorgasbord of exciting equipments than one creature.
Why would people want to trade Stoneforge Mystic for Batterskull? I love Batterskull, it is in my sideboard for against aggro and control.
If they unbanned Mystic, they would have to be even more careful with every equipment made from this point on. I would rather have a smorgasbord of exciting equipments than one creature.
To be honest I think even if they are not restricted by Stoneforge Mystic they will probably will never print equipment that is as good as the swords or Batterskull.
Why would people want to trade Stoneforge Mystic for Batterskull? I love Batterskull, it is in my sideboard for against aggro and control.
If they unbanned Mystic, they would have to be even more careful with every equipment made from this point on. I would rather have a smorgasbord of exciting equipments than one creature.
To be honest I think even if they are not restricted by Stoneforge Mystic they will probably will never print equipment that is as good as the swords or Batterskull.
To echo your point, as long as equip costs aren't too low and living weapon doesn't return it should be okay. But yea can't come off because Batterskull :/
On the contrary I believe that equipment as strong or near the power level of Swords of X&Y and Batterskull should be printed. At the momment equipment is like nonexistant in standard, same was for the last season too, the only equipment that was ever played was essentially teh Swords and Batterskull. Living Weapon shouldn't return because it is one mess of a mechanic from a game standpoint (You essentially play Batterskull because it is a 4/4 Vigilance Lifelink that is resilent to removal, not because you want to equip it to a creature.)
Perhaps is a personal thing but I really like equipment and I am really sad to see that there were only like 5+1 good equipment pieces ever printed. I mean equipment is cool. I want to play with it more, not less because of whatever resons. (And I am talking about a competitive level. Yes I had a Runechanted Pike deck back then but isn't exactly what you'd compare to the Swords.)
Mystic is a broken card. Even without Batterskull in the format I still think Mystic shouldn't be unbanned.
But Runechanter's Pike was in fact a competitive card. It saw considerable play in UW Delver.
In Scars-Innistrad Standard, Runechanter's Pike saw about as much play, if not more, than the three Swords did combined.
On the contrary I believe that equipment as strong or near the power level of Swords of X&Y and Batterskull should be printed. At the momment equipment is like nonexistant in standard, same was for the last season too, the only equipment that was ever played was essentially teh Swords and Batterskull. Living Weapon shouldn't return because it is one mess of a mechanic from a game standpoint (You essentially play Batterskull because it is a 4/4 Vigilance Lifelink that is resilent to removal, not because you want to equip it to a creature.)
Perhaps is a personal thing but I really like equipment and I am really sad to see that there were only like 5+1 good equipment pieces ever printed. I mean equipment is cool. I want to play with it more, not less because of whatever resons. (And I am talking about a competitive level. Yes I had a Runechanted Pike deck back then but isn't exactly what you'd compare to the Swords.)
Mystic is a broken card. Even without Batterskull in the format I still think Mystic shouldn't be unbanned.
Oh I mean I LOVE equipment particularly flavor wise. I really enjoyed playing delver pike last standard. It's just hard to make competitive because of the risks of equipping. It has to be extremely good to be competitive. I really think there's a lot of potential to make more build around equipment like runechanters pike though that can help negate the risk of abuse.
On the contrary I believe that equipment as strong or near the power level of Swords of X&Y and Batterskull should be printed. At the momment equipment is like nonexistant in standard, same was for the last season too, the only equipment that was ever played was essentially teh Swords and Batterskull. Living Weapon shouldn't return because it is one mess of a mechanic from a game standpoint (You essentially play Batterskull because it is a 4/4 Vigilance Lifelink that is resilent to removal, not because you want to equip it to a creature.)
Perhaps is a personal thing but I really like equipment and I am really sad to see that there were only like 5+1 good equipment pieces ever printed. I mean equipment is cool. I want to play with it more, not less because of whatever resons. (And I am talking about a competitive level. Yes I had a Runechanted Pike deck back then but isn't exactly what you'd compare to the Swords.)
Mystic is a broken card. Even without Batterskull in the format I still think Mystic shouldn't be unbanned.
People don't equip their batterskulls to creatures enough, it will often put them out of all damage and -x/-x kill spells range.
Not necessarily, you can get stalled out with a batterskull in play (it is only a 4/4), equipping it to a more evasive threat, or just to a bigger one can break through the stall. I agree its primary purpose is a big dumb beater but to say thats all is misrepresenting the power of the card
I want dredge, I want sfm, I want good draw spells, I want good counter spells(one or the other IDK), I want good walkers of other colors. I want good artifacts.
I want dredge, I want sfm, I want good draw spells, I want good counter spells(one or the other IDK), I want good walkers of other colors. I want good artifacts.
And I want Bogles off the Proven section.
Good thing they won't make me a moderator.
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Wizards just doesn't think it's fun for people to be tasked with it.
At least that subgame has more marginal benefit to it than, say, the Bogles subgame. There's more graveyard decks in the format than there are Hexproof-Pants strats, greater incentive to pack those RIPs/RoPs/LeyVoids/etc...
I am just asking so that I don't do it, what isn't currently civil in this discussion?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
/suicide
And sword doesn't feel very right since in the best case scenario of it not breaking anything, it'd be yet another combo combination, even if it'd be played in a control deck, it'd still produce a combo/control deck.
We probably already have too many combo mombo's.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
It could make tezzeret control viable too which would be awesome. In that shell, yes it would be exceedingly hard to get rid of, but yea without chrome mox the deck moves really slow anyway. I reaaaalllllly don't see how this is worse than twin.
combos in modern, once assembled, typically win on the spot
it would be a different sort of combo than we are used to
as for 12post, the deck is insane. maybe you could ban glimmerpost because that card pushes it over the edge with life gain. its so much easier to drop eldrazi with 12post especially with eye of ugin
Being able to break the turn 4 rule vs being able to break the turn 4 rule consistently are two very different things though.
Yes dredge should exist. As you'll notice though decks like storm (a good comparison since both have tremendous amounts of hate printed against them) have been nerfed as well. The fact of the matter is dredge needs to find a way to exist without dread return. It simply can cast it too fast to realistically hate it out. It SHOULD be given GGT back though, but as for anything else it will have to rely on future printings.
On a more personal level, I don't want to have to devote a gigantic portion of my sideboard to grave hate just to have a fair chance vs dredge. The format becomes unfun when you have to fill your sideboard up with large numbers of specific hate cards just because someone wants to play the solitaire sub game. I don't want to have to remove more side cards for more grave hate (I already run 3 RiP) because I need to draw it by turn two. (Unlike storm twin or heck any other deck barring maybe my affinity hate.)
If they unbanned Mystic, they would have to be even more careful with every equipment made from this point on. I would rather have a smorgasbord of exciting equipments than one creature.
To be honest I think even if they are not restricted by Stoneforge Mystic they will probably will never print equipment that is as good as the swords or Batterskull.
To echo your point, as long as equip costs aren't too low and living weapon doesn't return it should be okay. But yea can't come off because Batterskull :/
In Scars-Innistrad Standard, Runechanter's Pike saw about as much play, if not more, than the three Swords did combined.
Oh I mean I LOVE equipment particularly flavor wise. I really enjoyed playing delver pike last standard. It's just hard to make competitive because of the risks of equipping. It has to be extremely good to be competitive. I really think there's a lot of potential to make more build around equipment like runechanters pike though that can help negate the risk of abuse.
People don't equip their batterskulls to creatures enough, it will often put them out of all damage and -x/-x kill spells range.
It's rather better at being colorless pseudo-Baneslayer with the ability to reset itself after "death."
And I want Bogles off the Proven section.
Good thing they won't make me a moderator.