It still would just make blue decks even stronger, which they already are. There are many decks that run blue successfully, I really don't get why a boost for blue decks is needed with unbans. Blue got so many insane cards last years from which some are banned. I think WotC is doing well in trying to avoid that again. Blue has always been the strongest color in many peoples' eyes, and I think it's very well balanced at this point within Modern. No need to add more powerful cards to it.
And as far as mono colored decks go: Blue has Merfolk. White has Soul Sisters. Green has devotion to Green and elves. Black has 8-rack and devotion t black. Red has Burn.
Merfolk gets the best results at this point for mono-colored decks. Twin is probably the best deck and contains blue. UWR control does really well and contains blue. Maybe we will see decks like Counter-Cat making their return at some point. There are many options for blue decks. So I really don't get why blue cards need to come off the ban list. Blue decks do not need help.
You must be joking. UWR control doing really well? You doth protest a bit too much. Go look at the top 16 of the last five big modern tournaments and the MODO meta. UWR control is <3% of the meta and hasn't been placing well for a while now. Just because it won a Pro Tour (of which, no other UWR Control deck was in the top 32!) and Shenhar won Worlds (a 16 player event) with a more mid-range version, doesn't mean anything. If anything green is the best color in Modern right now what between Pod and RUG Twin. It's obvious that while blue is good, Twin decks revolve around a RED card and without it wouldn't exist, and decks like Scapeshift revolve around a green card and mountains. The only decks that rely on blue as a basis of their deck are UWR control, Fish, and 'Blue Moon'. The best deck in the format is a green based mid-range deck (Pod). Before that Modern was dominated by Jund, and GBx decks are still doing better than UWR control.
It seems to me regardless of facts you just simply dislike Blue, and blue based slice of the color pie. Control NEEDS a boost. Either Jace or AV or getting FoF into the format somehow.
Go look at the top 16 of the last five big modern tournaments and the MODO meta. UWR control is <3% of the meta and hasn't been placing well for a while now.
According to MTG Gold Fish, UWR Control is 7% of the Meta and seems to be doing well. Nonetheless, I do think Control does need a boost. I am pro an AV unban.
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Now Playing Modern RUBW Affinity BGR Midrange UWR Control RG Titan Shift RW Burn GW Bogles G Tron
Go look at the top 16 of the last five big modern tournaments and the MODO meta. UWR control is <3% of the meta and hasn't been placing well for a while now.
According to MTG Gold Fish, UWR Control is 7% of the Meta and seems to be doing well. Nonetheless, I do think Control does need a boost. I am pro an AV unban.
It still would just make blue decks even stronger, which they already are. There are many decks that run blue successfully, I really don't get why a boost for blue decks is needed with unbans. Blue got so many insane cards last years from which some are banned. I think WotC is doing well in trying to avoid that again. Blue has always been the strongest color in many peoples' eyes, and I think it's very well balanced at this point within Modern. No need to add more powerful cards to it.
And as far as mono colored decks go: Blue has Merfolk. White has Soul Sisters. Green has devotion to Green and elves. Black has 8-rack and devotion t black. Red has Burn.
Merfolk gets the best results at this point for mono-colored decks. Twin is probably the best deck and contains blue. UWR control does really well and contains blue. Maybe we will see decks like Counter-Cat making their return at some point. There are many options for blue decks. So I really don't get why blue cards need to come off the ban list. Blue decks do not need help.
You must be joking. UWR control doing really well? You doth protest a bit too much. Go look at the top 16 of the last five big modern tournaments and the MODO meta. UWR control is <3% of the meta and hasn't been placing well for a while now. Just because it won a Pro Tour (of which, no other UWR Control deck was in the top 32!) and Shenhar won Worlds (a 16 player event) with a more mid-range version, doesn't mean anything. If anything green is the best color in Modern right now what between Pod and RUG Twin. It's obvious that while blue is good, Twin decks revolve around a RED card and without it wouldn't exist, and decks like Scapeshift revolve around a green card and mountains. The only decks that rely on blue as a basis of their deck are UWR control, Fish, and 'Blue Moon'. The best deck in the format is a green based mid-range deck (Pod). Before that Modern was dominated by Jund, and GBx decks are still doing better than UWR control. Merfolk is doing pretty well, as is Blue Moon.
It seems to me regardless of facts you just simply dislike Blue, and blue based slice of the color pie. Control NEEDS a boost. Either Jace or AV or getting FoF into the format somehow.
I don't dislike blue at all, I'm just being realistic. I love blue, and have had many blue decks in the past, so no, that's not it. I was trying to be objective. I never said blue was the best color in Modern by the way. It probably isn't. It's kind of hard to determine though as it is pretty subjective.
Anyway, Twin wouldn't exist without exarch/pestermite and blue dig abilities. So yes, blue is a very important part of the Twin deck, as is red of course. One could not exist without the other, so it's a mood point to say red is the most important part of the deck. It's called Twin/Exarch for a reason. Twin is already 15% of the meta, so that's a pretty good deal for blue (and red) and it's only one of the blue decks that exists.
Control in general does not need a boost imo. We've been over this. Control in Modern has a different face. There's only a couple of decks that are pure control. Other than that control is part of many strategies. The blue draw/go type of decks (not talking about PURE and ONLY draw/go, since that doesn't really exist anymore anyway) are not really present in Modern and only will be if WotC decides to print some new cards that add to that strategy. Should blue be able to control as it does in Legacy? I disagree with that if that's what you mean. There's always going to be a color that's a bit more represented than other colors. Maybe now that's green. So what? In two years it could be white, or blue or... Like I said, it's not as if blue is vastly underplayed in Modern. That's simply not true.
Maybe blue based control could use a slight boost, but that has to be done with future printings, not with unbanning Jace (seriously come on... Adding one of the most OP cards ever printed to a format that doesn't even come close to having the amount of answers Legacy has? That's just silly) nor with unbanning AV (which would buff Twin/Exarch more which we really don't want).
Be realistic. Control cannot get a boost by unbanning cards that are currently on the ban list without destroying the meta. Future printings are the answer.
Go look at the top 16 of the last five big modern tournaments and the MODO meta. UWR control is <3% of the meta and hasn't been placing well for a while now.
According to MTG Gold Fish, UWR Control is 7% of the Meta and seems to be doing well. Nonetheless, I do think Control does need a boost. I am pro an AV unban.
I likw MTGgoldfish and I often look at it, but unfortunately it only shows the decks from the last 2 weeks and MTGO is a bit swingy. Besides that it sometimes groups the decks wrong. One day it bundles BG Rock with Jund and sometimes they are separate.
UWR control was a big deck (nr 2 or 3) shortly after the last B&R update, but it apparently didn't like the return of Jund and Tron. I guess that AV would be very good against Jund, but maybe all UWR needs is a meta change.
well, he was speaking about the last 5 big tournaments, MTG Goldfish counts Daily's as well...
Premier Events are not big tournaments. Often only 34 people participate and sometimes it doesn't even reach the 33 minimum player entry. Most likely the low attendance is because these tournaments are on MTGO, and as everybody knows, MTGO is often being... MTGO. It is actually easier to make a top 16 than to go 3-1 in a Daily.
Look at Grand Prix Richmond, Pro Tour Valencia, the two 160+ man tournaments that were held in Italy a month ago, etc. No UWR control in top 32 @ the Grand Prix, one in the Pro Tour top 32, and none in either of the top 8 of either Bologna or Arezzo. As for IDM, you can't tell the difference between a Control deck, which has a specific type of 'feel' and play style, compared to decks with 'control elements' aka in certain MU's they play the 'control' role. You also think legacy has more options to deal with Jace, when the decks that play Jace have Force of Will, Daze, and a bunch of free/cheap ways to defend him, not to mention mana denial is much stronger in legacy which makes Jace a lot stronger there. Jace in Modern would be a lot worse than he is in Legacy and ever was in Standard. Bolt takes care of him, he's bad against a host of decks (Affinity, Fish, Hatebears, etc.), and there are also cards around now like Dreadbore that would be good against him. Of course he is still powerful, but he's not going to take UWR from <3% to 30%. He'll make UWR/Esper competitive, and really he can only slot into Control decks so he doesn't have the problem of the boogeyman that is Twin (AV is awful in Twin imho).
The problem with UWR or any control type deck is the number of playable decks in the format. If you build your control deck to beat one deck, 3 others are bad match ups for you. Pairings at events are huge in Modern. There just is not enough room in your 75 to have a deck that can beat everything you will see in a large event.
Go look at the top 16 of the last five big modern tournaments and the MODO meta. UWR control is <3% of the meta and hasn't been placing well for a while now.
According to MTG Gold Fish, UWR Control is 7% of the Meta and seems to be doing well. Nonetheless, I do think Control does need a boost. I am pro an AV unban.
I likw MTGgoldfish and I often look at it, but unfortunately it only shows the decks from the last 2 weeks and MTGO is a bit swingy. Besides that it sometimes groups the decks wrong. One day it bundles BG Rock with Jund and sometimes they are separate.
UWR control was a big deck (nr 2 or 3) shortly after the last B&R update, but it apparently didn't like the return of Jund and Tron. I guess that AV would be very good against Jund, but maybe all UWR needs is a meta change.
well, he was speaking about the last 5 big tournaments, MTG Goldfish counts Daily's as well...
Premier Events are not big tournaments. Often only 34 people participate and sometimes it doesn't even reach the 33 minimum player entry. Most likely the low attendance is because these tournaments are on MTGO, and as everybody knows, MTGO is often being... MTGO. It is actually easier to make a top 16 than to go 3-1 in a Daily.
Look at Grand Prix Richmond, Pro Tour Valencia, the two 160+ man tournaments that were held in Italy a month ago, etc. No UWR control in top 32 @ the Grand Prix, one in the Pro Tour top 32, and none in either of the top 8 of either Bologna or Arezzo. As for IDM, you can't tell the difference between a Control deck, which has a specific type of 'feel' and play style, compared to decks with 'control elements' aka in certain MU's they play the 'control' role. You also think legacy has more options to deal with Jace, when the decks that play Jace have Force of Will, Daze, and a bunch of free/cheap ways to defend him, not to mention mana denial is much stronger in legacy which makes Jace a lot stronger there. Jace in Modern would be a lot worse than he is in Legacy and ever was in Standard. Bolt takes care of him, he's bad against a host of decks (Affinity, Fish, Hatebears, etc.), and there are also cards around now like Dreadbore that would be good against him. Of course he is still powerful, but he's not going to take UWR from <3% to 30%. He'll make UWR/Esper competitive, and really he can only slot into Control decks so he doesn't have the problem of the boogeyman that is Twin (AV is awful in Twin imho).
Did I say anywhere that decks with control elements ARE control decks? I think I made clear by saying the word ELEMENTS that I'm not stating that at all. I'm also growing pretty tired of your condescending tone, constantly making assumptions. "You can't tell the difference". Please just try to stay on subject and not make assumptions about someone's experience with Magic. I think I might have played Magic while you were still in diapers. Ah well. No harm no fowl.
And ehm, Legacy does in fact have more answers to Jace than Modern. That is a fact. That the Jace player can answer those answers is neither here nor there, that is how legacy/Magic works. I could go on by saying that decks can answer that FoW of the Jace player to make sure the removal goes through, but it's just a useless discussion.
Other than that, I'm not going to try and convince you. You have a very different approach to the Modern format, and maybe even to Magic in general than me. So no need to discuss this further.
Though, don't hold your breath for Jace coming off the list. One can hope, but it's still not going to happen. WotC has admitted Jace was a mistake, and I would be very surprised if they would risk the second most popular format ever (a format they actually support) by unbanning a card that would instantly be the most desirable/expensive card and most broken card in Modern. It would warp the format and thinking it won't just baffles me. Ah well. It either shows you have a playset lying around and really want to play them in Modern, or you never played with Jace in any format and have no idea how format warping it would be. Either way, nothing in your post seems really objective (you even throw numbers around that are heavily influenced by your own opinion about the 'real' meta). You obviously love playing blue based control and really want OP cards to come off the list to support it more. Woops, now I made an assumption. See how annoying that is?
Does somebody know at which time they will make the announcement?
I would really like to be there when the announcement gets made so I dont miss anything big as unlikely as that may be.
Does somebody know at which time they will make the announcement?
I would really like to be there when the announcement gets made so I dont miss anything big as unlikely as that may be.
It should be on the official website when it updates at midnight, that's how it was last time. It took like 4 minutes to load as everybody tried to refresh to find the changes.
Considering that there has been zero hype about this update, compared to the last one, I would be amazed to see any changes at all. I'm pretty sure that somebody KNEW that Bitterblossom was coming off well in advance, and spread the information. There was just too much chatter about it compared to this change to think that people didn't know stuff was happening....
If we did see any changes, the only one I'd expect would be GGT which I could care less about. AV or SotM could also come off, which I would care about slightly more, but they may give it more time before shaking things up more (not to mention that AV may just be too good with tarmo twin).
Control in general does not need a boost imo. We've been over this. Control in Modern has a different face. There's only a couple of decks that are pure control. Other than that control is part of many strategies. The blue draw/go type of decks (not talking about PURE and ONLY draw/go, since that doesn't really exist anymore anyway) are not really present in Modern and only will be if WotC decides to print some new cards that add to that strategy. Should blue be able to control as it does in Legacy? I disagree with that if that's what you mean. There's always going to be a color that's a bit more represented than other colors. Maybe now that's green. So what? In two years it could be white, or blue or... Like I said, it's not as if blue is vastly underplayed in Modern. That's simply not true.
The funny thing is that the bolded applies pretty just as much to Legacy as it does to Modern. Draw-Go Control is about as dead in Legacy as it is in Modern. I'd actually argue the format most friendly to Draw-Go Control right now is Standard, as Esper/Azorius Control sure seems a lot more like Draw-Go to me than anything in Legacy or Modern.
The real difference between Legacy Control and Modern Control isn't Jace; Jace is a great card, but ultimately he's just a high-quality finisher. The difference is that Legacy has Sensei's Divining Top and can use the CounterTop lock to gain considerable virtual card advantage.
Maybe blue based control could use a slight boost, but that has to be done with future printings, not with unbanning Jace (seriously come on... Adding one of the most OP cards ever printed to a format that doesn't even come close to having the amount of answers Legacy has? That's just silly) nor with unbanning AV (which would buff Twin/Exarch more which we really don't want).
What good answers to Jace does Legacy have that Modern lacks? Only one I can really think of is Force of Will, which is counteracted by the fact you can use Force of Will to protect your Jace.
Does somebody know at which time they will make the announcement?
I would really like to be there when the announcement gets made so I dont miss anything big as unlikely as that may be.
It should be on the official website when it updates at midnight, that's how it was last time. It took like 4 minutes to load as everybody tried to refresh to find the changes.
Considering that there has been zero hype about this update, compared to the last one, I would be amazed to see any changes at all. I'm pretty sure that somebody KNEW that Bitterblossom was coming off well in advance, and spread the information. There was just too much chatter about it compared to this change to think that people didn't know stuff was happening....
If we did see any changes, the only one I'd expect would be GGT which I could care less about. AV or SotM could also come off, which I would care about slightly more, but they may give it more time before shaking things up more (not to mention that AV may just be too good with tarmo twin).
Do you know which timezone they take into account? Im in Europe here.
Control in general does not need a boost imo. We've been over this. Control in Modern has a different face. There's only a couple of decks that are pure control. Other than that control is part of many strategies. The blue draw/go type of decks (not talking about PURE and ONLY draw/go, since that doesn't really exist anymore anyway) are not really present in Modern and only will be if WotC decides to print some new cards that add to that strategy. Should blue be able to control as it does in Legacy? I disagree with that if that's what you mean. There's always going to be a color that's a bit more represented than other colors. Maybe now that's green. So what? In two years it could be white, or blue or... Like I said, it's not as if blue is vastly underplayed in Modern. That's simply not true.
The funny thing is that the bolded applies pretty just as much to Legacy as it does to Modern. Draw-Go Control is about as dead in Legacy as it is in Modern. I'd actually argue the format most friendly to Draw-Go Control right now is Standard, as Esper/Azorius Control sure seems a lot more like Draw-Go to me than anything in Legacy or Modern.
The real difference between Legacy Control and Modern Control isn't Jace; Jace is a great card, but ultimately he's just a high-quality finisher. The difference is that Legacy has Sensei's Divining Top and can use the CounterTop lock to gain considerable virtual card advantage.
Maybe blue based control could use a slight boost, but that has to be done with future printings, not with unbanning Jace (seriously come on... Adding one of the most OP cards ever printed to a format that doesn't even come close to having the amount of answers Legacy has? That's just silly) nor with unbanning AV (which would buff Twin/Exarch more which we really don't want).
What good answers to Jace does Legacy have that Modern lacks? Only one I can really think of is Force of Will, which is counteracted by the fact you can use Force of Will to protect your Jace.
Jace will be fine in modern once they print true name in a standard legal set.
Does somebody know at which time they will make the announcement?
I would really like to be there when the announcement gets made so I dont miss anything big as unlikely as that may be.
It should be on the official website when it updates at midnight, that's how it was last time. It took like 4 minutes to load as everybody tried to refresh to find the changes.
Considering that there has been zero hype about this update, compared to the last one, I would be amazed to see any changes at all. I'm pretty sure that somebody KNEW that Bitterblossom was coming off well in advance, and spread the information. There was just too much chatter about it compared to this change to think that people didn't know stuff was happening....
If we did see any changes, the only one I'd expect would be GGT which I could care less about. AV or SotM could also come off, which I would care about slightly more, but they may give it more time before shaking things up more (not to mention that AV may just be too good with tarmo twin).
Do you know which timezone they take into account? Im in Europe here.
Does somebody know at which time they will make the announcement?
I would really like to be there when the announcement gets made so I dont miss anything big as unlikely as that may be.
It should be on the official website when it updates at midnight, that's how it was last time. It took like 4 minutes to load as everybody tried to refresh to find the changes.
Considering that there has been zero hype about this update, compared to the last one, I would be amazed to see any changes at all. I'm pretty sure that somebody KNEW that Bitterblossom was coming off well in advance, and spread the information. There was just too much chatter about it compared to this change to think that people didn't know stuff was happening....
If we did see any changes, the only one I'd expect would be GGT which I could care less about. AV or SotM could also come off, which I would care about slightly more, but they may give it more time before shaking things up more (not to mention that AV may just be too good with tarmo twin).
Do you know which timezone they take into account? Im in Europe here.
usually Eastern time, GMT - 4:00
Thanks.
Hmm that would be 6 am here. Good thing I have vacation and I wanted to play on MTGO the entire night anyway.
Does somebody know at which time they will make the announcement?
I would really like to be there when the announcement gets made so I dont miss anything big as unlikely as that may be.
It should be on the official website when it updates at midnight, that's how it was last time. It took like 4 minutes to load as everybody tried to refresh to find the changes.
Considering that there has been zero hype about this update, compared to the last one, I would be amazed to see any changes at all. I'm pretty sure that somebody KNEW that Bitterblossom was coming off well in advance, and spread the information. There was just too much chatter about it compared to this change to think that people didn't know stuff was happening....
If we did see any changes, the only one I'd expect would be GGT which I could care less about. AV or SotM could also come off, which I would care about slightly more, but they may give it more time before shaking things up more (not to mention that AV may just be too good with tarmo twin).
Do you know which timezone they take into account? Im in Europe here.
I think that they use New York's time zone, which is UTC-5:00.
The problem with UWR or any control type deck is the number of playable decks in the format. If you build your control deck to beat one deck, 3 others are bad match ups for you. Pairings at events are huge in Modern. There just is not enough room in your 75 to have a deck that can beat everything you will see in a large event.
This is true, It's because there aren't many general answers to jace. Right now the closest there is to a general catch all answer in modern is Mana leak for counterspells, which isn't amazing. Another set could be nice, Counterspell certainly wouldn't break the format. Jace would help as well, but he'd be very powerful.
And ehm, Legacy does in fact have more answers to Jace than Modern. That is a fact. That the Jace player can answer those answers is neither here nor there, that is how legacy/Magic works. I could go on by saying that decks can answer that FoW of the Jace player to make sure the removal goes through, but it's just a useless discussion.
Other than that, I'm not going to try and convince you. You have a very different approach to the Modern format, and maybe even to Magic in general than me. So no need to discuss this further.
Though, don't hold your breath for Jace coming off the list. One can hope, but it's still not going to happen. WotC has admitted Jace was a mistake, and I would be very surprised if they would risk the second most popular format ever (a format they actually support) by unbanning a card that would instantly be the most desirable/expensive card and most broken card in Modern. It would warp the format and thinking it won't just baffles me. Ah well. It either shows you have a playset lying around and really want to play them in Modern, or you never played with Jace in any format and have no idea how format warping it would be. Either way, nothing in your post seems really objective (you even throw numbers around that are heavily influenced by your own opinion about the 'real' meta). You obviously love playing blue based control and really want OP cards to come off the list to support it more. Woops, now I made an assumption. See how annoying that is?
Jace is very strong, but he doesn't break anything about modern's rules. He can't break the turn 4 rule. Doesn't really homogenize the format as believe it or not , not every deck in modern would play him.
He doesn't go into Twin, he doesn't go into Pod, He doesn't go into Affinity, He doesn't go into Burn. He goes into mostly control decks, and some midrange decks.
Of course while bloodbraid is on the banlist, he wont come off, but blood braid was feasting on jaces for a long long time.
It's obvious that you don't want jace to go into modern, but its unlikely to be as absurd as you think. Modern is far more creature based than the eternal formats and Jace doesn't do super well when he's being bumrushed. Most effective answers for him are also in the modern format. There's actually no answers to him that aren't counterspells I can think of missing that actually see play in vintage or legacy.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
It's obvious that you don't want jace to go into modern, but its unlikely to be as absurd as you think. Modern is far more creature based than the eternal formats and Jace doesn't do super well when he's being bumrushed. Most effective answers for him are also in the modern format. There's actually no answers to him that aren't counterspells I can think of missing that actually see play in vintage or legacy.
While Im pro-jace I dont really want to get involved much in the Jace debate since nobody will change their mind anyway.
But the bolded part his the nail on the head. Wizards started recently printing cards that specifically can take care of planeswalkers. Dreadbore, Hero's Downfall, Fated Conflagration, Fated Retribution are a few examples of this.
At least the first two of them would have the chance to be played in Modern. That is something that you cant really say about Legacy or Vintage. Not mentioning how much Lightning Bolt is played and that Jace only survives if he goes up.
It still would just make blue decks even stronger, which they already are. There are many decks that run blue successfully, I really don't get why a boost for blue decks is needed with unbans. Blue got so many insane cards last years from which some are banned. I think WotC is doing well in trying to avoid that again. Blue has always been the strongest color in many peoples' eyes, and I think it's very well balanced at this point within Modern. No need to add more powerful cards to it.
And as far as mono colored decks go: Blue has Merfolk. White has Soul Sisters. Green has devotion to Green and elves. Black has 8-rack and devotion t black. Red has Burn.
Merfolk gets the best results at this point for mono-colored decks. Twin is probably the best deck and contains blue. UWR control does really well and contains blue. Maybe we will see decks like Counter-Cat making their return at some point. There are many options for blue decks. So I really don't get why blue cards need to come off the ban list. Blue decks do not need help.
While blue is strong in Modern right now, Control and Tempo are weak. The question is whether it is better to have balance in colors or balance in archetypes. I think that it is better to have a format with all 6 major archetypes in which blue is stronger than other colors than it is to have a format with only 3-4 strong archetypes and an even balance of the 5 colors.
The problem with UWR or any control type deck is the number of playable decks in the format. If you build your control deck to beat one deck, 3 others are bad match ups for you. Pairings at events are huge in Modern. There just is not enough room in your 75 to have a deck that can beat everything you will see in a large event.
While this is true, Control should be more powerful. Right now, it is about as powerful as other decks and it has some crippling matchups. In other decks with crippling matchups like RG Tron, that deck's overall power-level is higher than the decks in the rest of the format. Maybe that should be applied to control decks as well.
Go look at the top 16 of the last five big modern tournaments and the MODO meta. UWR control is <3% of the meta and hasn't been placing well for a while now.
According to MTG Gold Fish, UWR Control is 7% of the Meta and seems to be doing well. Nonetheless, I do think Control does need a boost. I am pro an AV unban.
MTG Goldfish categorizes WUR Twin, WUR Midrange, and WUR Control all as the same deck.
It still would just make blue decks even stronger, which they already are. There are many decks that run blue successfully, I really don't get why a boost for blue decks is needed with unbans. Blue got so many insane cards last years from which some are banned. I think WotC is doing well in trying to avoid that again. Blue has always been the strongest color in many peoples' eyes, and I think it's very well balanced at this point within Modern. No need to add more powerful cards to it.
And as far as mono colored decks go: Blue has Merfolk. White has Soul Sisters. Green has devotion to Green and elves. Black has 8-rack and devotion t black. Red has Burn.
Merfolk gets the best results at this point for mono-colored decks. Twin is probably the best deck and contains blue. UWR control does really well and contains blue. Maybe we will see decks like Counter-Cat making their return at some point. There are many options for blue decks. So I really don't get why blue cards need to come off the ban list. Blue decks do not need help.
You must be joking. UWR control doing really well? You doth protest a bit too much. Go look at the top 16 of the last five big modern tournaments and the MODO meta. UWR control is <3% of the meta and hasn't been placing well for a while now. Just because it won a Pro Tour (of which, no other UWR Control deck was in the top 32!) and Shenhar won Worlds (a 16 player event) with a more mid-range version, doesn't mean anything. If anything green is the best color in Modern right now what between Pod and RUG Twin. It's obvious that while blue is good, Twin decks revolve around a RED card and without it wouldn't exist, and decks like Scapeshift revolve around a green card and mountains. The only decks that rely on blue as a basis of their deck are UWR control, Fish, and 'Blue Moon'. The best deck in the format is a green based mid-range deck (Pod). Before that Modern was dominated by Jund, and GBx decks are still doing better than UWR control. Merfolk is doing pretty well, as is Blue Moon.
It seems to me regardless of facts you just simply dislike Blue, and blue based slice of the color pie. Control NEEDS a boost. Either Jace or AV or getting FoF into the format somehow.
I don't dislike blue at all, I'm just being realistic. I love blue, and have had many blue decks in the past, so no, that's not it. I was trying to be objective. I never said blue was the best color in Modern by the way. It probably isn't. It's kind of hard to determine though as it is pretty subjective.
Anyway, Twin wouldn't exist without exarch/pestermite and blue dig abilities. So yes, blue is a very important part of the Twin deck, as is red of course. One could not exist without the other, so it's a mood point to say red is the most important part of the deck. It's called Twin/Exarch for a reason. Twin is already 15% of the meta, so that's a pretty good deal for blue (and red) and it's only one of the blue decks that exists.
Control in general does not need a boost imo. We've been over this. Control in Modern has a different face. There's only a couple of decks that are pure control. Other than that control is part of many strategies. The blue draw/go type of decks (not talking about PURE and ONLY draw/go, since that doesn't really exist anymore anyway) are not really present in Modern and only will be if WotC decides to print some new cards that add to that strategy. Should blue be able to control as it does in Legacy? I disagree with that if that's what you mean. There's always going to be a color that's a bit more represented than other colors. Maybe now that's green. So what? In two years it could be white, or blue or... Like I said, it's not as if blue is vastly underplayed in Modern. That's simply not true.
First, there are no draw-go decks in Legacy. Second, I would be fine with nonblue control as well. But the only card that would promote nonblue control decks that is banned is Rite of Flame, which breaks the turn 4 rule into little tiny pieces. Third, I have gone over this many times. A deck being a control deck in some matchups does not make it control. If that was the case, almost every deck in the format would be a control deck. A deck can only be a Control deck if it plays the controlling role in over 50% of its matchups.
Maybe blue based control could use a slight boost, but that has to be done with future printings, not with unbanning Jace (seriously come on... Adding one of the most OP cards ever printed to a format that doesn't even come close to having the amount of answers Legacy has? That's just silly) nor with unbanning AV (which would buff Twin/Exarch more which we really don't want).
I am still rooting for Chrome Mox. Also, I would be happy with a Splinter Twin ban in exchange for Preordain and AV.
Be realistic. Control cannot get a boost by unbanning cards that are currently on the ban list without destroying the meta. Future printings are the answer.
Future printings take a long time to accomplish anything. Wizards can only respond to issues in a format 18 months later. If the format can be fixed with the banned list, there is no reason to wait that long for it to be fixed.
What good answers to Jace does Legacy have that Modern lacks? Only one I can really think of is Force of Will, which is counteracted by the fact you can use Force of Will to protect your Jace.
What good answers to Jace does Legacy have that Modern lacks? Only one I can really think of is Force of Will, which is counteracted by the fact you can use Force of Will to protect your Jace.
What good answers to Jace does Legacy have that Modern lacks? Only one I can really think of is Force of Will, which is counteracted by the fact you can use Force of Will to protect your Jace.
Ahh I am shamed. I havent played Blue or Red in Legacy for a long time so I forgot about REB. It sees no play in vintage (in my meta) so I I completely blanked out on it.
On the other hand I haven't seen vindicate played in YEARS.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
While this is true, Control should be more powerful. Right now, it is about as powerful as other decks and it has some crippling matchups. In other decks with crippling matchups like RG Tron, that deck's overall power-level is higher than the decks in the rest of the format. Maybe that should be applied to control decks as well.
Just so I am clear about where you stand, since you agreed with my post. You want Wotc to narrow the format by unbanning or printing new cards so control gets a boost? Because the problem with control is the number of viable decks in the format. Control can not prepare for all decks they might see.
While this is true, Control should be more powerful. Right now, it is about as powerful as other decks and it has some crippling matchups. In other decks with crippling matchups like RG Tron, that deck's overall power-level is higher than the decks in the rest of the format. Maybe that should be applied to control decks as well.
Just so I am clear about where you stand, since you agreed with my post. You want Wotc to narrow the format by unbanning or printing new cards so control gets a boost? Because the problem with control is the number of viable decks in the format. Control can not prepare for all decks they might see.
It can still see play if they print stronger and more general options, compared to very narrow answers.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Guys, I agree that they should unban Jace. There is so much hate being printed that I think he would be fine in the current meta. Although, I do not think UWR control needs anymore power, (it won the last pt).
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?
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
You must be joking. UWR control doing really well? You doth protest a bit too much. Go look at the top 16 of the last five big modern tournaments and the MODO meta. UWR control is <3% of the meta and hasn't been placing well for a while now. Just because it won a Pro Tour (of which, no other UWR Control deck was in the top 32!) and Shenhar won Worlds (a 16 player event) with a more mid-range version, doesn't mean anything. If anything green is the best color in Modern right now what between Pod and RUG Twin. It's obvious that while blue is good, Twin decks revolve around a RED card and without it wouldn't exist, and decks like Scapeshift revolve around a green card and mountains. The only decks that rely on blue as a basis of their deck are UWR control, Fish, and 'Blue Moon'. The best deck in the format is a green based mid-range deck (Pod). Before that Modern was dominated by Jund, and GBx decks are still doing better than UWR control.
It seems to me regardless of facts you just simply dislike Blue, and blue based slice of the color pie. Control NEEDS a boost. Either Jace or AV or getting FoF into the format somehow.
According to MTG Gold Fish, UWR Control is 7% of the Meta and seems to be doing well. Nonetheless, I do think Control does need a boost. I am pro an AV unban.
Modern
RUBW Affinity
BGR Midrange
UWR Control
RG Titan Shift
RW Burn
GW Bogles
G Tron
According to MTG Gold Fish this deck is UWR control: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/231172
Besides, I was talking about Paper and MODO. It's obvious to anyone it isn't doing well. Hell, Scapeshift has been putting up better results.
I don't dislike blue at all, I'm just being realistic. I love blue, and have had many blue decks in the past, so no, that's not it. I was trying to be objective. I never said blue was the best color in Modern by the way. It probably isn't. It's kind of hard to determine though as it is pretty subjective.
Anyway, Twin wouldn't exist without exarch/pestermite and blue dig abilities. So yes, blue is a very important part of the Twin deck, as is red of course. One could not exist without the other, so it's a mood point to say red is the most important part of the deck. It's called Twin/Exarch for a reason. Twin is already 15% of the meta, so that's a pretty good deal for blue (and red) and it's only one of the blue decks that exists.
Control in general does not need a boost imo. We've been over this. Control in Modern has a different face. There's only a couple of decks that are pure control. Other than that control is part of many strategies. The blue draw/go type of decks (not talking about PURE and ONLY draw/go, since that doesn't really exist anymore anyway) are not really present in Modern and only will be if WotC decides to print some new cards that add to that strategy. Should blue be able to control as it does in Legacy? I disagree with that if that's what you mean. There's always going to be a color that's a bit more represented than other colors. Maybe now that's green. So what? In two years it could be white, or blue or... Like I said, it's not as if blue is vastly underplayed in Modern. That's simply not true.
Maybe blue based control could use a slight boost, but that has to be done with future printings, not with unbanning Jace (seriously come on... Adding one of the most OP cards ever printed to a format that doesn't even come close to having the amount of answers Legacy has? That's just silly) nor with unbanning AV (which would buff Twin/Exarch more which we really don't want).
Be realistic. Control cannot get a boost by unbanning cards that are currently on the ban list without destroying the meta. Future printings are the answer.
Look at Grand Prix Richmond, Pro Tour Valencia, the two 160+ man tournaments that were held in Italy a month ago, etc. No UWR control in top 32 @ the Grand Prix, one in the Pro Tour top 32, and none in either of the top 8 of either Bologna or Arezzo. As for IDM, you can't tell the difference between a Control deck, which has a specific type of 'feel' and play style, compared to decks with 'control elements' aka in certain MU's they play the 'control' role. You also think legacy has more options to deal with Jace, when the decks that play Jace have Force of Will, Daze, and a bunch of free/cheap ways to defend him, not to mention mana denial is much stronger in legacy which makes Jace a lot stronger there. Jace in Modern would be a lot worse than he is in Legacy and ever was in Standard. Bolt takes care of him, he's bad against a host of decks (Affinity, Fish, Hatebears, etc.), and there are also cards around now like Dreadbore that would be good against him. Of course he is still powerful, but he's not going to take UWR from <3% to 30%. He'll make UWR/Esper competitive, and really he can only slot into Control decks so he doesn't have the problem of the boogeyman that is Twin (AV is awful in Twin imho).
Did I say anywhere that decks with control elements ARE control decks? I think I made clear by saying the word ELEMENTS that I'm not stating that at all. I'm also growing pretty tired of your condescending tone, constantly making assumptions. "You can't tell the difference". Please just try to stay on subject and not make assumptions about someone's experience with Magic. I think I might have played Magic while you were still in diapers. Ah well. No harm no fowl.
And ehm, Legacy does in fact have more answers to Jace than Modern. That is a fact. That the Jace player can answer those answers is neither here nor there, that is how legacy/Magic works. I could go on by saying that decks can answer that FoW of the Jace player to make sure the removal goes through, but it's just a useless discussion.
Other than that, I'm not going to try and convince you. You have a very different approach to the Modern format, and maybe even to Magic in general than me. So no need to discuss this further.
Though, don't hold your breath for Jace coming off the list. One can hope, but it's still not going to happen. WotC has admitted Jace was a mistake, and I would be very surprised if they would risk the second most popular format ever (a format they actually support) by unbanning a card that would instantly be the most desirable/expensive card and most broken card in Modern. It would warp the format and thinking it won't just baffles me. Ah well. It either shows you have a playset lying around and really want to play them in Modern, or you never played with Jace in any format and have no idea how format warping it would be. Either way, nothing in your post seems really objective (you even throw numbers around that are heavily influenced by your own opinion about the 'real' meta). You obviously love playing blue based control and really want OP cards to come off the list to support it more. Woops, now I made an assumption. See how annoying that is?
I would really like to be there when the announcement gets made so I dont miss anything big as unlikely as that may be.
It should be on the official website when it updates at midnight, that's how it was last time. It took like 4 minutes to load as everybody tried to refresh to find the changes.
Considering that there has been zero hype about this update, compared to the last one, I would be amazed to see any changes at all. I'm pretty sure that somebody KNEW that Bitterblossom was coming off well in advance, and spread the information. There was just too much chatter about it compared to this change to think that people didn't know stuff was happening....
If we did see any changes, the only one I'd expect would be GGT which I could care less about. AV or SotM could also come off, which I would care about slightly more, but they may give it more time before shaking things up more (not to mention that AV may just be too good with tarmo twin).
The real difference between Legacy Control and Modern Control isn't Jace; Jace is a great card, but ultimately he's just a high-quality finisher. The difference is that Legacy has Sensei's Divining Top and can use the CounterTop lock to gain considerable virtual card advantage.
What good answers to Jace does Legacy have that Modern lacks? Only one I can really think of is Force of Will, which is counteracted by the fact you can use Force of Will to protect your Jace.
Do you know which timezone they take into account? Im in Europe here.
Jace will be fine in modern once they print true name in a standard legal set.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
usually Eastern time, GMT - 4:00
CG
Thanks.
Hmm that would be 6 am here. Good thing I have vacation and I wanted to play on MTGO the entire night anyway.
I think that they use New York's time zone, which is UTC-5:00.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
This is true, It's because there aren't many general answers to jace. Right now the closest there is to a general catch all answer in modern is Mana leak for counterspells, which isn't amazing. Another set could be nice, Counterspell certainly wouldn't break the format. Jace would help as well, but he'd be very powerful.
Jace is very strong, but he doesn't break anything about modern's rules. He can't break the turn 4 rule. Doesn't really homogenize the format as believe it or not , not every deck in modern would play him.
He doesn't go into Twin, he doesn't go into Pod, He doesn't go into Affinity, He doesn't go into Burn. He goes into mostly control decks, and some midrange decks.
Of course while bloodbraid is on the banlist, he wont come off, but blood braid was feasting on jaces for a long long time.
It's obvious that you don't want jace to go into modern, but its unlikely to be as absurd as you think. Modern is far more creature based than the eternal formats and Jace doesn't do super well when he's being bumrushed. Most effective answers for him are also in the modern format. There's actually no answers to him that aren't counterspells I can think of missing that actually see play in vintage or legacy.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
While Im pro-jace I dont really want to get involved much in the Jace debate since nobody will change their mind anyway.
But the bolded part his the nail on the head. Wizards started recently printing cards that specifically can take care of planeswalkers.
Dreadbore, Hero's Downfall, Fated Conflagration, Fated Retribution are a few examples of this.
At least the first two of them would have the chance to be played in Modern. That is something that you cant really say about Legacy or Vintage. Not mentioning how much Lightning Bolt is played and that Jace only survives if he goes up.
While blue is strong in Modern right now, Control and Tempo are weak. The question is whether it is better to have balance in colors or balance in archetypes. I think that it is better to have a format with all 6 major archetypes in which blue is stronger than other colors than it is to have a format with only 3-4 strong archetypes and an even balance of the 5 colors.
While this is true, Control should be more powerful. Right now, it is about as powerful as other decks and it has some crippling matchups. In other decks with crippling matchups like RG Tron, that deck's overall power-level is higher than the decks in the rest of the format. Maybe that should be applied to control decks as well.
Splinter Twin isn't breaking anything.
MTG Goldfish categorizes WUR Twin, WUR Midrange, and WUR Control all as the same deck.
First, there are no draw-go decks in Legacy. Second, I would be fine with nonblue control as well. But the only card that would promote nonblue control decks that is banned is Rite of Flame, which breaks the turn 4 rule into little tiny pieces. Third, I have gone over this many times. A deck being a control deck in some matchups does not make it control. If that was the case, almost every deck in the format would be a control deck. A deck can only be a Control deck if it plays the controlling role in over 50% of its matchups.
I am still rooting for Chrome Mox. Also, I would be happy with a Splinter Twin ban in exchange for Preordain and AV.
Future printings take a long time to accomplish anything. Wizards can only respond to issues in a format 18 months later. If the format can be fixed with the banned list, there is no reason to wait that long for it to be fixed.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Just for completeness
Red elemental blast
pyroblast
to a lesser extent
vindicate
Don't forget True-Name Nemesis and Bloodbraid Elf.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Ahh I am shamed. I havent played Blue or Red in Legacy for a long time so I forgot about REB. It sees no play in vintage (in my meta) so I I completely blanked out on it.
On the other hand I haven't seen vindicate played in YEARS.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
Just so I am clear about where you stand, since you agreed with my post. You want Wotc to narrow the format by unbanning or printing new cards so control gets a boost? Because the problem with control is the number of viable decks in the format. Control can not prepare for all decks they might see.
It can still see play if they print stronger and more general options, compared to very narrow answers.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash