Some of your posts make me wonder if you even play they format. Shoal makes your opening hand even more important. Especially those playing against shoal. If you dont have a removal spell in your opener, you have to pitch it. Not to mention it is painful to path on turn 2 actually helping the shoal player. It was just prolonging the inevitable.
I didn't play back when these cards were legal. I only just started playing modern recently and see this huge banned list standing in the way, which naturally leads me to question it.
I didn't play back when these cards were legal. I only just started playing modern recently and see this huge banned list standing in the way, which naturally leads me to question it.
I am the same. So when I want to know why something is banned, I go and look at the announcement and read the reasoning. I would suggest doing the same as it will answer most of your questions without the need to post.
Edit:
What is the chances BB will push B/U fae to a high competitive level? I see a lot of talk about it, but I have only ever played against it in Legacy. So in Modern, what would it really do? I ask this while thinking, Jund has Pluse and Decay, B/R/X control has a world of counters, Tron has... Well Tron has that end game. Affinity has speed... Am I missing something. It seams like adding an Aggro control deck to the format would only help it. I say this while hoping Rock dies not get hit too hard by it but I honestly have no idea. I have never played against Fae.
Some of your posts make me wonder if you even play they format. Shoal makes your opening hand even more important. Especially those playing against shoal. If you dont have a removal spell in your opener, you have to pitch it. Not to mention it is painful to path on turn 2 actually helping the shoal player. It was just prolonging the inevitable.
Okay so I'm going for a low blow here so I can point out what an idiot you are. Prolonging is completely the wrong word. You can't prolong something that hasn't happened yet (the inevitable) but you can DELAY it from happening.
And from now on, anytime you use the complete wrong word, I'm gonna point it out. Hopefully people will eventually realize how dumb you are and just ignore you.
You are impossible to reason with and you refuse to acknowledge or admit when you're wrong or mistaken, even when multiple people in the thread point out your idiocy. You will purposely argue with people who share your views just to be argumentative. There's a difference between spurring a discussion along, and actively promoting the contrary solely for the sake of argument. I swear, half of your posts are troll- and flame-bait. And you know it! That's the worst thing about it. Do you wake up in the morning, walk over to your computer, and ask yourself, "how can I get people infracted today?" Or maybe you ask, "What ridiculous claims can I make today in order to look as asinine and moronic as possible?" Because, whatever your goals are, you seem to be achieving them.
Card me if you must, Lantern. Sorry, but I don't care, I needed to say that.
Okay so I'm going for a low blow here so I can point out what an idiot you are. Prolonging is completely the wrong word. You can't prolong something that hasn't happened yet (the inevitable) but you can DELAY it from happening.
And from now on, anytime you use the complete wrong word, I'm gonna point it out. Hopefully people will eventually realize how dumb you are and just ignore you.
You are impossible to reason with and you refuse to acknowledge or admit when you're wrong or mistaken, even when multiple people in the thread point out your idiocy. You will purposely argue with people who share your views just to be argumentative. There's a difference between spurring a discussion along, and actively promoting the contrary solely for the sake of argument. I swear, half of your posts are troll- and flame-bait. And you know it! That's the worst thing about it. Do you wake up in the morning, walk over to your computer, and ask yourself, "how can I get people infracted today?" Or maybe you ask, "What ridiculous claims can I make today in order to look as asinine and moronic as possible?" Because, whatever your goals are, you seem to be achieving them.
Card me if you must, Lantern. Sorry, but I don't care, I needed to say that.
Glad you understand America words. 'prolonging the inevitable' is a popular saying that means just putting off something that is going to happen anyway.
As for being argumentative, I counter your claims and I am automatically wrong? Like I said, your claims come at the back end of the decks dominance. You seem to be the one who can not take being wrong.
I have no intention to get people infracted. There are ways to get a point across without getting a mark.
Edit:
What is the chances BB will push B/U fae to a high competitive level? I see a lot of talk about it, but I have only ever played against it in Legacy. So in Modern, what would it really do? I ask this while thinking, Jund has Pluse and Decay, B/R/X control has a world of counters, Tron has... Well Tron has that end game. Affinity has speed... Am I missing something. It seams like adding an Aggro control deck to the format would only help it. I say this while hoping Rock dies not get hit too hard by it but I honestly have no idea. I have never played against Fae.
Glad you understand America words. 'prolonging the inevitable' is a popular saying that means just putting off something that is going to happen anyway.
As for being argumentative, I counter your claims and I am automatically wrong? Like I said, your claims come at the back end of the decks dominance. You seem to be the one who can not take being wrong.
I have no intention to get people infracted. There are ways to get a point across without getting a mark.
The phrase is DELAYING the inevitable. "Prolonging the inevitable" is a phase used by morons who don't understand what the word prolong means.
Faeires dominated through conflux, even with quick n toast and tokens in the format. It didn't start to slow down until ARB when Jund became a deck with the printing of BBE, Bit Blast, Terminate, and Maelstrom Pulse.
What is the chances BB will push B/U fae to a high competitive level? I see a lot of talk about it, but I have only ever played against it in Legacy. So in Modern, what would it really do? I ask this while thinking, Jund has Pluse and Decay, B/R/X control has a world of counters, Tron has... Well Tron has that end game. Affinity has speed... Am I missing something. It seams like adding an Aggro control deck to the format would only help it. I say this while hoping Rock dies not get hit too hard by it but I honestly have no idea. I have never played against Fae.
To be honest the straight U/B version would be T1.5. But the 3 color versions (UBr, UBg, and UBw) would be much better.
Quote from Tinfoil Hat »
The phrase is DELAYING the inevitable. "Prolonging the inevitable" is a phase used by morons who don't understand what the word prolong means.
Could be a region thing like bubbler/water cooler/water fountain or shaver/ razor or soda/pop/coke, because I have never in my 50 years heard anyone use delaying the inevitable. Its always been prolonging. When you look it up, they are both synonymous.
Faeires dominated through conflux, even with quick n toast and tokens in the format. It didn't start to slow down until ARB when Jund became a deck with the printing of BBE, Bit Blast, Terminate, and Maelstrom Pulse.
Again, the up tick in attendance STARTED at Alara when people had new toys to try and combat Fae. I agree Fae was still top dog until Conflux. But Fae had already dominated some time before Alara came out.
Again, the up tick in attendance STARTED at Alara when people had new toys to try and combat Fae. I agree Fae was still top dog until Conflux. But Fae had already dominated some time before Alara came out.
Either way, Fae never had to race affinity, storm, or infect; combat vs BGx Deathrite/Lili decks, have counterspell mana ready for an EoT living end but also leave mana open for a MP1 living end to back it up. BB is too weak for Legacy play so there is virtually no competitive data to pull from. All we got is standard data, and that data shows it had a decline when the new Jund Tools showed up.
Imagine it now with the even more popular BGx Tools, or having to fight against a deck that literally fills the board with critters turn 1... I think you need to take the deck back to the drawing board and re-evaluate how "powerful" you think BB is. It really isn't.
My playgroup has tested everything under the sun, UB Fae, UBR fae, UBW Fae 5c Fae... we just finished tested a pretty brutal BUG version of Fae w/ BB and JTMS. Ya know what the outcome was when we put it through the gauntlet?
We know we don't test vs. all the decks, but we feel strong that we've covered the majority of the meta to determine that BB is safe to unban. The types of decks that it can beat are generally slower creature based combo decks, however a Midrange deck with enough hand disruption and permanent removal shows BB for what it really is... a slow clunky token producer. I'm inclined to say Lingering Souls is better for a similar effect.
The hyper aggressive aggro decks like affinity and Tron just demolish Fae, even with Goyf DRS in the most recent build it couldn't handle the speed.
I challenge you (Bocephus) to put BB through the same testing gauntlet that my playgroup has, then see if you can come to the same conclusion that you have for it now.
Standard data is a much smaller card pool then what modern has to offer... people should think about that when they claim a card is broken because it was OP in standard.
EDIT: So it seems the BL announcement has moved up to midnight EST...
Either way, Fae never had to race affinity, storm, or infect; combat vs BGx Deathrite/Lili decks, have counterspell mana ready for an EoT living end but also leave mana open for a MP1 living end to back it up. BB is too weak for Legacy play so there is virtually no competitive data to pull from. All we got is standard data, and that data shows it had a decline when the new Jund Tools showed up.
Imagine it now with the even more popular BGx Tools, or having to fight against a deck that literally fills the board with critters turn 1... I think you need to take the deck back to the drawing board and re-evaluate how "powerful" you think BB is. It really isn't.
My playgroup has tested everything under the sun, UB Fae, UBR fae, UBW Fae 5c Fae... we just finished tested a pretty brutal BUG version of Fae w/ BB and JTMS. Ya know what the outcome was when we put it through the gauntlet?
We know we don't test vs. all the decks, but we feel strong that we've covered the majority of the meta to determine that BB is safe to unban. The types of decks that it can beat are generally slower creature based combo decks, however a Midrange deck with enough hand disruption and permanent removal shows BB for what it really is... a slow clunky token producer. I'm inclined to say Lingering Souls is better for a similar effect.
The hyper aggressive aggro decks like affinity and Tron just demolish Fae, even with Goyf DRS in the most recent build it couldn't handle the speed.
I challenge you (Bocephus) to put BB through the same testing gauntlet that my playgroup has, then see if you can come to the same conclusion that you have for it now.
Standard data is a much smaller card pool then what modern has to offer... people should think about that when they claim a card is broken because it was OP in standard.
Again, image is everything. I understand different players/groups test different versions of decks and say, its fine.
Personally in our testing if your meta is Jund/Junk heavy you run red over green. If your meta is heavy aggro you run the green version, if your meta is more combo run white. Granted thats if you know the meta. We came to the conclusion going in blind the UBr version is probably easier to run and set your SB up.
To nly look at one or 2 builds and say its fine is just wrong. Because whats going ot happen is they unban a card and the pros break the format in half with it and then they have to reban it and listen to the masses complain.
I think that is outdated. The timestamp for the tweet is on the seventh. The other tweet in the OP (the one saying Monday after the prerelease) is timestamped the 23rd.
I, for one, will be very disappointed if there are no changes yet again. I might as well play legacy if that is the case. At least they unban cards once in a while
Again, image is everything. I understand different players/groups test different versions of decks and say, its fine.
Personally in our testing if your meta is Jund/Junk heavy you run red over green. If your meta is heavy aggro you run the green version, if your meta is more combo run white. Granted thats if you know the meta. We came to the conclusion going in blind the UBr version is probably easier to run and set your SB up.
To nly look at one or 2 builds and say its fine is just wrong. Because whats going ot happen is they unban a card and the pros break the format in half with it and then they have to reban it and listen to the masses complain.
I thought I made it clear we've tested the UBR version.
Are you claiming that the "pros" can take any given card on the BL and break it in half and do stuff with it that no one else can? I don't think any "pro" can do much different then what my playgroup has done with BB in a Fae build.
If you think there's some magical combo that requires a repetitive token producer, then why haven't the pro's broke Awakening Zone or Goblin Assault?
I thought I made it clear we've tested the UBR version.
Are you claiming that the "pros" can take any given card on the BL and break it in half and do stuff with it that no one else can? I don't think any "pro" can do much different then what my playgroup has done with BB in a Fae build.
If you think there's some magical combo that requires a repetitive token producer, then why haven't the pro's broke Awakening Zone or Goblin Assault?
Much slower the BB. Speed is a huge component of the format.
Tell you what, lets wait till the announcement and then we can talk. Just because someones testing comes up different then yours doesnt mean either of us are wrong. Just different groups and players.
Is this data reflecting overall games or matches? Including sideboard games? Sorry, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the context. I must say, I think its strange that your Jund numbers are worse than Junk...mine was the opposite - Voice of Resurgence was an absolute beating. Could you post your lists?
I thought I made it clear we've tested the UBR version.
Are you claiming that the "pros" can take any given card on the BL and break it in half and do stuff with it that no one else can? I don't think any "pro" can do much different then what my playgroup has done with BB in a Fae build.
If you think there's some magical combo that requires a repetitive token producer, then why haven't the pro's broke Awakening Zone or Goblin Assault?
I thought I made it clear we've tested the UBR version.
Are you claiming that the "pros" can take any given card on the BL and break it in half and do stuff with it that no one else can? I don't think any "pro" can do much different then what my playgroup has done with BB in a Fae build.
If you think there's some magical combo that requires a repetitive token producer, then why haven't the pro's broke Awakening Zone or Goblin Assault?
My opinion on this is as follows
I think my answer to your sarcasm would be because those cards dont give you the benefit of things like Mistbind Clique and Spellstutter Sprite. The tribal synergy is what everyone is afraid of, granted it is from the standard and extended days. i think the term "pro" could EASILY be replaced by "experienced player" and give your question validity. there may not have been a suggestion of any superior intellect being able to do unheard of things, just people who are wary of what these cards do in conjunction with eachother...that, which has been said before, is usually expressed more by players who analyze and tweak to perfect how a deck interacts with the environment. so there may very well be different ways to gain advantage in faeries that havent been found in the modern atmosphere...because there was no value in looking until bitterblossom came off the list. but the truth is we as players would like the chance to see it for ourselves rather than take their fears of the format being ruined it at face value
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Wizards of the Coast Archive
The Born of the Gods Banned & Restricted update will be announced on February 3, 2014, which is the Monday after the Born of the Gods Prerelease. The changes, if there are any, will go into effect with the release of Born of the Gods on February 7, 2014.
This is the scheduling which we announced on September 20, 2012 when we tied the updates to set releases. Due to internal scheduling needs we had moved that announcement a week forward for the past few sets. Those conflicts have been resolved and this scheduling will continue for the foreseeable future.
I didn't play back when these cards were legal. I only just started playing modern recently and see this huge banned list standing in the way, which naturally leads me to question it.
I am the same. So when I want to know why something is banned, I go and look at the announcement and read the reasoning. I would suggest doing the same as it will answer most of your questions without the need to post.
Edit:
What is the chances BB will push B/U fae to a high competitive level? I see a lot of talk about it, but I have only ever played against it in Legacy. So in Modern, what would it really do? I ask this while thinking, Jund has Pluse and Decay, B/R/X control has a world of counters, Tron has... Well Tron has that end game. Affinity has speed... Am I missing something. It seams like adding an Aggro control deck to the format would only help it. I say this while hoping Rock dies not get hit too hard by it but I honestly have no idea. I have never played against Fae.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
Okay so I'm going for a low blow here so I can point out what an idiot you are. Prolonging is completely the wrong word. You can't prolong something that hasn't happened yet (the inevitable) but you can DELAY it from happening.
And from now on, anytime you use the complete wrong word, I'm gonna point it out. Hopefully people will eventually realize how dumb you are and just ignore you.
You are impossible to reason with and you refuse to acknowledge or admit when you're wrong or mistaken, even when multiple people in the thread point out your idiocy. You will purposely argue with people who share your views just to be argumentative. There's a difference between spurring a discussion along, and actively promoting the contrary solely for the sake of argument. I swear, half of your posts are troll- and flame-bait. And you know it! That's the worst thing about it. Do you wake up in the morning, walk over to your computer, and ask yourself, "how can I get people infracted today?" Or maybe you ask, "What ridiculous claims can I make today in order to look as asinine and moronic as possible?" Because, whatever your goals are, you seem to be achieving them.
Card me if you must, Lantern. Sorry, but I don't care, I needed to say that.
You're wish is my command.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Glad you understand America words. 'prolonging the inevitable' is a popular saying that means just putting off something that is going to happen anyway.
As for being argumentative, I counter your claims and I am automatically wrong? Like I said, your claims come at the back end of the decks dominance. You seem to be the one who can not take being wrong.
I have no intention to get people infracted. There are ways to get a point across without getting a mark.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
The phrase is DELAYING the inevitable. "Prolonging the inevitable" is a phase used by morons who don't understand what the word prolong means.
Faeires dominated through conflux, even with quick n toast and tokens in the format. It didn't start to slow down until ARB when Jund became a deck with the printing of BBE, Bit Blast, Terminate, and Maelstrom Pulse.
See above.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
To be honest the straight U/B version would be T1.5. But the 3 color versions (UBr, UBg, and UBw) would be much better.
Could be a region thing like bubbler/water cooler/water fountain or shaver/ razor or soda/pop/coke, because I have never in my 50 years heard anyone use delaying the inevitable. Its always been prolonging. When you look it up, they are both synonymous.
Again, the up tick in attendance STARTED at Alara when people had new toys to try and combat Fae. I agree Fae was still top dog until Conflux. But Fae had already dominated some time before Alara came out.
So the 27th it will be. So we will know soon.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
Either way, Fae never had to race affinity, storm, or infect; combat vs BGx Deathrite/Lili decks, have counterspell mana ready for an EoT living end but also leave mana open for a MP1 living end to back it up. BB is too weak for Legacy play so there is virtually no competitive data to pull from. All we got is standard data, and that data shows it had a decline when the new Jund Tools showed up.
Imagine it now with the even more popular BGx Tools, or having to fight against a deck that literally fills the board with critters turn 1... I think you need to take the deck back to the drawing board and re-evaluate how "powerful" you think BB is. It really isn't.
My playgroup has tested everything under the sun, UB Fae, UBR fae, UBW Fae 5c Fae... we just finished tested a pretty brutal BUG version of Fae w/ BB and JTMS. Ya know what the outcome was when we put it through the gauntlet?
Deck - W/L%
Jund - 30/70
Junk - 45/55
Infect - 50/50
KikiPod - 75/25
MeliraPod - 70/30
Twin - 60/40
Affinity - 10/90
URtron - 45/55
Living End - 60/40
We know we don't test vs. all the decks, but we feel strong that we've covered the majority of the meta to determine that BB is safe to unban. The types of decks that it can beat are generally slower creature based combo decks, however a Midrange deck with enough hand disruption and permanent removal shows BB for what it really is... a slow clunky token producer. I'm inclined to say Lingering Souls is better for a similar effect.
The hyper aggressive aggro decks like affinity and Tron just demolish Fae, even with Goyf DRS in the most recent build it couldn't handle the speed.
I challenge you (Bocephus) to put BB through the same testing gauntlet that my playgroup has, then see if you can come to the same conclusion that you have for it now.
Standard data is a much smaller card pool then what modern has to offer... people should think about that when they claim a card is broken because it was OP in standard.
EDIT: So it seems the BL announcement has moved up to midnight EST...
Again, image is everything. I understand different players/groups test different versions of decks and say, its fine.
Personally in our testing if your meta is Jund/Junk heavy you run red over green. If your meta is heavy aggro you run the green version, if your meta is more combo run white. Granted thats if you know the meta. We came to the conclusion going in blind the UBr version is probably easier to run and set your SB up.
To nly look at one or 2 builds and say its fine is just wrong. Because whats going ot happen is they unban a card and the pros break the format in half with it and then they have to reban it and listen to the masses complain.
According to this it's next week.
I think that is outdated. The timestamp for the tweet is on the seventh. The other tweet in the OP (the one saying Monday after the prerelease) is timestamped the 23rd.
They keep changing this.
I, for one, will be very disappointed if there are no changes yet again. I might as well play legacy if that is the case. At least they unban cards once in a while
I thought I made it clear we've tested the UBR version.
Are you claiming that the "pros" can take any given card on the BL and break it in half and do stuff with it that no one else can? I don't think any "pro" can do much different then what my playgroup has done with BB in a Fae build.
If you think there's some magical combo that requires a repetitive token producer, then why haven't the pro's broke Awakening Zone or Goblin Assault?
Much slower the BB. Speed is a huge component of the format.
Tell you what, lets wait till the announcement and then we can talk. Just because someones testing comes up different then yours doesnt mean either of us are wrong. Just different groups and players.
Is this data reflecting overall games or matches? Including sideboard games? Sorry, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the context. I must say, I think its strange that your Jund numbers are worse than Junk...mine was the opposite - Voice of Resurgence was an absolute beating. Could you post your lists?
Speculate less. Test more.
Bitterblossom just synergizes so well with the rest of the fae, especially Spellstutter Sprite and Mistbind Clique.
Plus 2 mana vs 3 of course
My opinion on this is as follows
I think my answer to your sarcasm would be because those cards dont give you the benefit of things like Mistbind Clique and Spellstutter Sprite. The tribal synergy is what everyone is afraid of, granted it is from the standard and extended days. i think the term "pro" could EASILY be replaced by "experienced player" and give your question validity. there may not have been a suggestion of any superior intellect being able to do unheard of things, just people who are wary of what these cards do in conjunction with eachother...that, which has been said before, is usually expressed more by players who analyze and tweak to perfect how a deck interacts with the environment. so there may very well be different ways to gain advantage in faeries that havent been found in the modern atmosphere...because there was no value in looking until bitterblossom came off the list. but the truth is we as players would like the chance to see it for ourselves rather than take their fears of the format being ruined it at face value
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
That says Janruary though. It's gonna be Smarch all over again! (If you don't get it google the simpsons)
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/01272014a
Get exited. CLick link.
get this: