I posted this in the Standard forums and it seems that the Magic 2014 Slivers by themselves would not make a good deck to compete in Standard. But since Modern also has the Time Spiral block Slivers as well as a greater mana base (fetchlands, shocklands, checklands, fastlands, filterlands, etc.) and the Lorwyn/Shadowmoor Changelings (not specifically Slivers but they count as such), are sliver decks viable in Modern? Why or why not?
I think you answered your own question. There are more than enough Sliver cards available for making a Modern sliver deck. Other tribes are probably more competetive but slivers are definitely viable.
If I had to be objective on the matter, I'd like to say no, not for competitive play.
As a kitchen table archetype Slivers are definitely doable, though it seems that they suffer greatly from losing steam within 3 turns of goldfishing, as well as being greatly susceptible to any removal-dense decks.
Though, if M14 is a preview of a future to come, that could change. Especially if WotC does a dumb and makes Crystalline Sliver 2.0: Hexproof Boogaloo edition.
Oh, but before I forget, if you do want to give it a shot, I highly recommend you amass a collection of Mutavaults (for obvious reasons) and Aether Vials (to plop out Slivers even faster and without the speed limitations of non-flash creatures). They will serve you well in just about any tribal strategy.
I was playing slivers for a little while. I made use of the Sliver Lords, as well as the tech of Aether Vial and Homing Sliver which was pretty sweet. I dig toolbox decks and it was a fun one to play. Still though, I felt like it was missing something. Maybe I should take another look at the deck after I get my current project to where I want it to be.
I think slivers is totally doable in modern, the problem is that the lords aren't as good as merfolk and the manabase is tough because you do need to go into so many colors...of course thats an advantage as well--merfolk would love an on-color golgari/boros charm and a little extra utility.
You got remval answers in your 3 drops, and gemhide + sentinel in play means a blood moon by itself wont even slow you down. Necrotic sliver will just blow it up anyway.
And against affinity why not side in harmonic slivers?
It lacks a way to refuel itself though, so pathing a key sliver may very well draw you a card (opaline sliver), and cost them a permanent (necrotic sliver) but unless the card you drew is a good enough replacement, the damage done could be quite substantial.
That said even with only 5 slivers in play, you would have a huge board presence.
You got remval answers in your 3 drops, and gemhide + sentinel in play means a blood moon by itself wont even slow you down. Necrotic sliver will just blow it up anyway.
And against affinity why not side in harmonic slivers?
It lacks a way to refuel itself though, so pathing a key sliver may very well draw you a card (opaline sliver), and cost them a permanent (necrotic sliver) but unless the card you drew is a good enough replacement, the damage done could be quite substantial.
That said even with only 5 slivers in play, you would have a huge board presence.
The only question is, why not affinity?
Excellent post. But one thing, I think by Gemhide Sliver you meant Manaweft Sliver, with one being legal in Modern and the other not legal in Modern.
Disagree, they're actually a worse version of Affinity.
Could you elaborate? Merfolk is a deck that's based around getting lord creatures down to pump up your creatures so you can swing for lots of damage. That's far closer to what Slivers are trying to do than Affinity, which isn't based on lords so much as cards that just get super powerful when you have lots of artifacts. Slivers doesn't run cards that get powered up by the number of Slivers you have in play, for example.
Slivers are fine for mana. Theyd be crazy vulnerable to blood moon but so is torn.
Tron actually isn't crazy vulnerable to Blood Moon. Unlike other decks that rely considerably on nonbasic lands (e.g. Jund), Tron is perfectly capable of still casting all its spells when a Blood Moon is in play. Most of its spells are colorless and thus don't care what color mana is being used to cast them, and for the cards that do require colored mana, they have Chromatics (and one or two basic Forests) to do the job there.
Blood Moon does hurt Tron, but it doesn't actually lock it out; it just slows it down. Which can really hurt the deck, don't get me wrong, but slowing down a deck is a lot less powerful than actually rendering it unable to cast things.
Could you elaborate? Merfolk is a deck that's based around getting lord creatures down to pump up your creatures so you can swing for lots of damage. That's far closer to what Slivers are trying to do than Affinity, which isn't based on lords so much as cards that just get super powerful when you have lots of artifacts. Slivers doesn't run cards that get powered up by the number of Slivers you have in play, for example.
No, but Affinity plays a game of vomiting out as much stuff as possible and swinging for lethal ASAP, which is what you'll be doing once you've got a mana sliver or two up and running.
Slivers don't have enough lords to play the Merfolk game as you describe it anyway, so you've kinda failed yourself there.
I played against a sliver deck on mtgo.
He used sinew and predatory sliver as lords and the only other slivers I saw were sidewinder and galerider. He used phantasmal image to copy the lords and the rest of the deck was essentially counters, bounce, and path to exile. He also used aether vial. I ended up losing to it, it can get some ridiculously strong draws.
But honestly if you want to play slivers, it's a very good deck in pauper, since you get 12 lords.
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Gemhide Sliver was from Time Spiral. It should be modern legal. Of course, Manaweft is strictly better, but if necessary one could play both.
You're right. When I was typing that I was actually thinking of Predatory Sliver and Muscle Sliver lol (with the one being legal in Modern thing). Sorry about that.
Tron actually isn't crazy vulnerable to Blood Moon. Unlike other decks that rely considerably on nonbasic lands (e.g. Jund), Tron is perfectly capable of still casting all its spells when a Blood Moon is in play. Most of its spells are colorless and thus don't care what color mana is being used to cast them, and for the cards that do require colored mana, they have Chromatics (and one or two basic Forests) to do the job there.
Blood Moon does hurt Tron, but it doesn't actually lock it out; it just slows it down. Which can really hurt the deck, don't get me wrong, but slowing down a deck is a lot less powerful than actually rendering it unable to cast things.
Ah, but neither is slivers.
Manaweft, gemhide, aether vile.
Maybe i worded it poorly but oh well.
Also, slivers can be either merfolk OR affinity. The list i posted i feel is more affinity-like where you vomit your hand asap. But one could just as easily cut out a lot of slivers and add in an aether vile + some soft counters
Which was why I said it was a worse version of Merfolk?
Except it isn't playing the strategy you've outlined soooooo...
Sliver Legion costs WUBRG. It is not a particularly efficient way of pumping up your creatures.
Did you ever stop to consider what sort of board state the Sliver pilot is in where they get to drop Legion?
Let me give you an idea.
It involves one or more mana slivers, a few pump slivers, and a ton of rainbow lands to work with, plus a Mutavault for good measure.
See this is why it's kitchentable at best, any real deck would've disrupted the plan before it could take form. It's an Affinity deck that takes 3 turns to do what should take only one, with a mass Cranial Plating priced at WUBRG.
Im not as good at pulling merfolk varients outta my a**. Again the question ends up being, why not merfolk?
Well harmonic sliver in the sideboard would hit alot harder i guess, kinda a nonbo with aether vial tho.
You obviously need Gemhide for mana fixing, but drop a lot of the +1/+0, +0/+1, +1/+1, and +2/+2 Slivers in with support, Sidewinder, and perhaps Pulmonary and Battering Slivers, as well, and you've got a nice Sliver Beatdown deck with plenty of answers that doesn't give a damn about removal.
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Since people are posting lists, here is the last version I had. Like I said, the Homing Sliver + Aether Vial tech is really sweet, but the deck still feels like it's missing something.
I feel like you either go DEGA for sedge sliver, or you go bant for flying, counterspells, and Kira, Great Glass-Spinner.
The 5 color lists make you shock yourself too much. Youre better off trying a 3 color list most of the time so you can support mutavault.
The real problem with slivers is that they bring you no real card advantage. It makes me want to run either dark confidant or snapcaster mage... Or possibly even Domri in spell light lists.
You're forgetting one of the best available Slivers: Mirror Entity. Since most Slivers are 1/1 on their own, just paying 2 mana you pump them all. But it can also turn non-Sliver creatures into them, allowing you to play some hatebears (Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is a card that can always fit decks with ~30 creatures) or mana dorks with cmc=1. Moreover, you can fetch it with Homing Sliver.
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4-5 colors really isn't that hard to run. 4x Arid Mesa and 4x Scalding Tarn can fetch up Hallowed Fountain t1 and Stomping Ground t2 to hit most combinations you will need. Then just hit whatever you need to get the Swamp. Sure, you might shock yourself for some damage but who cares if your set for the rest of the game. You can always slow play your lands if you're against aggro, and some decks don't even care about your life total anyway.
I think I like bant. Whoever mentioned Phantasmal image was on the right track.
4 Flying Sliver
4 Poisonous Sliver
4 Flanking Sliver
12 Sliver Lord
2 Shadow Sliver
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Path to exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Free slots
20 Land
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As a kitchen table archetype Slivers are definitely doable, though it seems that they suffer greatly from losing steam within 3 turns of goldfishing, as well as being greatly susceptible to any removal-dense decks.
Though, if M14 is a preview of a future to come, that could change. Especially if WotC does a dumb and makes Crystalline Sliver 2.0: Hexproof Boogaloo edition.
Oh, but before I forget, if you do want to give it a shot, I highly recommend you amass a collection of Mutavaults (for obvious reasons) and Aether Vials (to plop out Slivers even faster and without the speed limitations of non-flash creatures). They will serve you well in just about any tribal strategy.
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You got remval answers in your 3 drops, and gemhide + sentinel in play means a blood moon by itself wont even slow you down. Necrotic sliver will just blow it up anyway.
And against affinity why not side in harmonic slivers?
It lacks a way to refuel itself though, so pathing a key sliver may very well draw you a card (opaline sliver), and cost them a permanent (necrotic sliver) but unless the card you drew is a good enough replacement, the damage done could be quite substantial.
That said even with only 5 slivers in play, you would have a huge board presence.
The only question is, why not affinity?
Excellent post. But one thing, I think by Gemhide Sliver you meant Manaweft Sliver, with one being legal in Modern and the other not legal in Modern.
Could you elaborate? Merfolk is a deck that's based around getting lord creatures down to pump up your creatures so you can swing for lots of damage. That's far closer to what Slivers are trying to do than Affinity, which isn't based on lords so much as cards that just get super powerful when you have lots of artifacts. Slivers doesn't run cards that get powered up by the number of Slivers you have in play, for example.
Tron actually isn't crazy vulnerable to Blood Moon. Unlike other decks that rely considerably on nonbasic lands (e.g. Jund), Tron is perfectly capable of still casting all its spells when a Blood Moon is in play. Most of its spells are colorless and thus don't care what color mana is being used to cast them, and for the cards that do require colored mana, they have Chromatics (and one or two basic Forests) to do the job there.
Blood Moon does hurt Tron, but it doesn't actually lock it out; it just slows it down. Which can really hurt the deck, don't get me wrong, but slowing down a deck is a lot less powerful than actually rendering it unable to cast things.
No, but Affinity plays a game of vomiting out as much stuff as possible and swinging for lethal ASAP, which is what you'll be doing once you've got a mana sliver or two up and running.
Slivers don't have enough lords to play the Merfolk game as you describe it anyway, so you've kinda failed yourself there.
Also, Sliver Legion says hi.
He used sinew and predatory sliver as lords and the only other slivers I saw were sidewinder and galerider. He used phantasmal image to copy the lords and the rest of the deck was essentially counters, bounce, and path to exile. He also used aether vial. I ended up losing to it, it can get some ridiculously strong draws.
But honestly if you want to play slivers, it's a very good deck in pauper, since you get 12 lords.
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Gemhide Sliver was from Time Spiral. It should be modern legal. Of course, Manaweft is strictly better, but if necessary one could play both.
You're right. When I was typing that I was actually thinking of Predatory Sliver and Muscle Sliver lol (with the one being legal in Modern thing). Sorry about that.
Ah, but neither is slivers.
Manaweft, gemhide, aether vile.
Maybe i worded it poorly but oh well.
Also, slivers can be either merfolk OR affinity. The list i posted i feel is more affinity-like where you vomit your hand asap. But one could just as easily cut out a lot of slivers and add in an aether vile + some soft counters
Sliver Legion costs WUBRG. It is not a particularly efficient way of pumping up your creatures.
Except it isn't playing the strategy you've outlined soooooo...
Did you ever stop to consider what sort of board state the Sliver pilot is in where they get to drop Legion?
Let me give you an idea.
It involves one or more mana slivers, a few pump slivers, and a ton of rainbow lands to work with, plus a Mutavault for good measure.
See this is why it's kitchentable at best, any real deck would've disrupted the plan before it could take form. It's an Affinity deck that takes 3 turns to do what should take only one, with a mass Cranial Plating priced at WUBRG.
4 mutavault
2 temple garden
2 hallowed fountain
1 breeding pool
3 plains
4 island
4 forest
4 sinew sliver
4 predatory sliver
4 sentinel sliver
16 free spots
Im not as good at pulling merfolk varients outta my a**. Again the question ends up being, why not merfolk?
Well harmonic sliver in the sideboard would hit alot harder i guess, kinda a nonbo with aether vial tho.
You obviously need Gemhide for mana fixing, but drop a lot of the +1/+0, +0/+1, +1/+1, and +2/+2 Slivers in with support, Sidewinder, and perhaps Pulmonary and Battering Slivers, as well, and you've got a nice Sliver Beatdown deck with plenty of answers that doesn't give a damn about removal.
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It really play more like merfolk than Aaffinity, I actually play 12 lords.
3 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Marsh Flats
4 Mutavault
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Æther Vial
//Creatures
2 Bonescythe Sliver
2 Frenetic Sliver
3 Galerider Sliver
2 Mirror Entity
2 Necrotic Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sedge Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
2 Striking Sliver
1 Syphon Sliver
4 Homing Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
3 Sedge Sliver
3 Galerider Sliver
1 Bonescythe Sliver
1 Sentinel Sliver
1 Sliver Legion
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
Other Spells: 14
4 AEther Vial
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
2 Path to Exile
1 Crib Swap
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Brass
3 Arid Mesa
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Reflecting Pool
1 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Steam Vents
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Rest in Peace
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Pithing Needle
2 Spellskite
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Harmonic Sliver
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The 5 color lists make you shock yourself too much. Youre better off trying a 3 color list most of the time so you can support mutavault.
The real problem with slivers is that they bring you no real card advantage. It makes me want to run either dark confidant or snapcaster mage... Or possibly even Domri in spell light lists.
I think the real key is sidewinder sliver in aggro matchup.
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4 Flying Sliver
4 Poisonous Sliver
4 Flanking Sliver
12 Sliver Lord
2 Shadow Sliver
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Path to exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Free slots
20 Land
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
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