I don't think it's bad by any means, people just haven't been playing it. Jund and BG Rock have been showing up a lot more lately, as we can see, and UWR isn't favored there. It's not a bad matchup by any means, just that Jund has a slight edge. It just depends on the flavor of the month. UWR got its turn, now it's Jund's turn. I've seen UWR drop around 4% online as well, but I still don't think it's a bad deck. It's definitely still a tier 1 deck.
As far as individual lists go though, most people have been steering away from Shahar's list and playing the other list, the more controlling version. Cliques and Restos put pressure, but they're expensive and somewhat lackluster, and the deck doesn't particularly need the pressure to win games.
To be fair, there has only been one GP since. It has had 12 3-1s and 4 4-0s in the past week online. It's still putting up solid numbers.
UWR control is definitely still a major player in the format. It may not have Top 8'ed a single GP, but it was just half the field (with Jund being the other half) in the World Championship. It also continues to put up good numbers online, along with Jund and Tron, which are currently the Big 3 online.
well, combo's better when you've got all the avenues of play.
As long as they share a common road, it only gets stronger if you can morph from one line of play to another.
At any rate, it looks surprisingly sound. You're aiming to bin stuff that enables Ooze to do degenerate things, from Goryoan Griselbrand to spamming free Soul Spikes to drawing up for a ridiculous Zombie Infestation (seems like the worst case line of play) or turning into Assault Loam by binning Borborygmos.
I think it's a legit concept.
Absolutely nanners, though.
I noticed after Detroit that Modern has finally reached the same "midrange, combo, control" cycle that defines Legacy. And I'm really glad to see that--it shows that the format is healthy and self-regulating.
Sure, each of those categories has a deck that sits on top (Jund, Melira Pod, UWR) but those can be upset really easily. Look at RG Tron, which I expect to become even more popular than it already is. If it becomes a major player it will demand the tempo and creatureless combo decks (like Storm or reanimator) to make a showing.
The point is, I like the direction the format is headed.
I noticed after Detroit that Modern has finally reached the same "midrange, combo, control" cycle that defines Legacy. And I'm really glad to see that--it shows that the format is healthy and self-regulating.
Sure, each of those categories has a deck that sits on top (Jund, Melira Pod, UWR) but those can be upset really easily. Look at RG Tron, which I expect to become even more popular than it already is. If it becomes a major player it will demand the tempo and creatureless combo decks (like Storm or reanimator) to make a showing.
The point is, I like the direction the format is headed.
We can't be sure that it is in such a cycle until after GP Brisbane and GP Antwerp. If those two events see a shift as we might expect away from Jund and to the decks that beat Jund, then I agree with you and all is well. But if we see another GP Detroit Jundathon, or more Melira Pod wins, then that's a bit more worrisome. MTGO is also going to take a lot longer to adjust to the metagame cycles because most people there follow the lead of big events. Currently, Jund is at about 16% of the MTGO metagame, which is 4% points more than Pod at the height of its July popularity. It also makes up about 20% of the 4-0/3-1 finishes, so it's majorly overperforming. But again, MTGO players tend to take leads from big events, so this is somewhat to be expected.
So you believe the Twin decks hated Tron out, then folded to Rock/Pod?
I guess I could try to analyze the round-by-round standings... Ugh. Doesn't sound appealing right now.
It's possible. There were a large amount of Tron decks and Tron is the best deck against BGx and good against Melira Pod. Without something like Splinter Twin, they would have dominated the tournament.
It's possible. There were a large amount of Tron decks and Tron is the best deck against BGx and good against Melira Pod. Without something like Splinter Twin, they would have dominated the tournament.
I'd love to be that optimistic, but I don't see any clear reason why the same thing won't happen again. Theros could shake things up, I guess. The pros could also try to guess a different metagame and inadvertently expose themselves to Tron. I just don't think that's likely.
I would love to be that optimistic, but I don't see any clear reason why the same thing won't just happen again.
Because, some people recognize that everyone is just going to play the best decks (Currently Jund and Melira Pod). Those people will play the decks that prey on those decks. Also, stuff like Splinter Twin will conveniently see less play due to it losing to Jund, which makes RG Tron even better.
I'd love to be that optimistic, but I don't see any clear reason why the same thing won't happen again. Theros could shake things up, I guess. The pros could also try to guess a different metagame and inadvertently expose themselves to Tron. I just don't think that's likely.
Probably the one deck that could shake up the Modern meta that will be born with Theros's release is Combo Elves. From my testing, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx skyrockets the consistency of its big mana plan because it's like Elvish Archdruid if it had Haste, consumed a land drop, and didn't die to Bolt/Path to Exile. With a more consistent big mana plan, the percentage of wins that come from Summoner's Pact into Craterhoof Behemoth increases, so its match-ups with aggro and combo will improve. (Combo Elves also might start fusing with Aggro Elves because of the increased consistency of the Hoof plan.)
I've found that Combo Elves has a favourable pre-board match-up with Jund and Pod and probably even pre-board match-ups with Tempo Twin and GW Hatebears (keep in mind that I'm fighting through 2-3 Polukranos, World Eater in my GW Hatebears lists). I've also found that Combo Elves has a better pre-board match-up against combo than Pod does (and that Combo Elves is probably the most comparable to Pod--both have many-piece creature-based combos and mana ramp). Compensating by having a worse UWR Control match-up does suck, though.
(On another note, I've now crammed so much big mana into my Combo Elves list that I've actually comboed off with Beck // Call through Deceiver Exarch on Breeding Pool and I've actually hardcast Hoof for lethal through Pestermite on Nykthos (both against Tempo Twin in testing). Admittedly, a Nykthos-fuelled Turn 3 Regal Force helps with that Pestermite case.)
Thus, assuming that Combo Elves's increase in power comes with an increase in play, I predict that Jund and Pod will get worse and that UWR and RG Tron will improve.
We can't be sure that it is in such a cycle until after GP Brisbane and GP Antwerp. If those two events see a shift as we might expect away from Jund and to the decks that beat Jund, then I agree with you and all is well. But if we see another GP Detroit Jundathon, or more Melira Pod wins, then that's a bit more worrisome. MTGO is also going to take a lot longer to adjust to the metagame cycles because most people there follow the lead of big events. Currently, Jund is at about 16% of the MTGO metagame, which is 4% points more than Pod at the height of its July popularity. It also makes up about 20% of the 4-0/3-1 finishes, so it's majorly overperforming. But again, MTGO players tend to take leads from big events, so this is somewhat to be expected.
In my memory, don't the "top decks" usually get overplayed on modo but then underperform, which usually results in, "See, X wasn't the best after all!"
Granted, this is probably at least partially attributable to that deck being played by new people who aren't as good with it, and people building more hate in, but still - Jund isn't "easy" to play, but it's not extremely hard, and there aren't a lot of great "jund hate" cards out there.
I think I've said it numerous times, but if (not) enough:
doomsaying.
Doomsaying, and gross overexaggeration of the day to day situation.
I might be baseless in saying this, but I'm sure it's an expected human behavioral pattern in competitive games to play what wins, without much thought into "why" it wins; the end result would be overrepresentation of certain elements with results that do not follow with what one expects of the "good" deck.
Or, so I'm inclined to believe.
I don't dabble in the numbers and trend data, so my comment here is as good as a load of bricks by my own admission.
But what I want to be made clear is that sometimes, you want to take these results with a grain of salt.
Or perhaps do yearly reports on the trends of deck popularity and other factors. Would make for an interesting case study in the cyclical nature of the metagame.
^^ amulet of vigor deck. lets you "ramp" by playing summer bloom and the bounce lands in combination with amulet of vigor, letting you use the mana immediately.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
It looks like a Hive Mind combo, but I am not familiar with the Hive Mind deck. EDIT: yes it seems to be a hive mind list. I just didn't know about the complicated land part: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=483582
"The deck that every time I lose too I feel like I did something wrong in a past life to deserve this and contemplate the choices I've made that lead me up to this moment."
That's the long name. Most people just call it "amulet of vigor"
Is Scapeshift still a force to be reckoned with? In paper events, it only had 1 T16 at Detroit and none at Brisbane. mtgtop8 says it has 8 high finishes in the last 2 months - a shockingly low number, even lower than Merfolk and Faeries.
Honestly as someone who plays this deck(although a much different list trying things out) i am shocked this version is able to 4-0 so often. It seems incredibly weak to a single thoughtseize, turns all the opponents bolts on g1(and 2 since most leave them in with nothing better to add) and probably floods out a ton (flood pretty consistently with an extra serum vision, 1 less land and 2 Gifts ungiven). I guess giving up consistency for speed works pretty well for him
As far as individual lists go though, most people have been steering away from Shahar's list and playing the other list, the more controlling version. Cliques and Restos put pressure, but they're expensive and somewhat lackluster, and the deck doesn't particularly need the pressure to win games.
To be fair, there has only been one GP since. It has had 12 3-1s and 4 4-0s in the past week online. It's still putting up solid numbers.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
my brain meats...
60 cards
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Godless Shrine
3 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
22 lands
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Griselbrand
4 Necrotic Ooze
14 creatures
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Grisly Salvage
4 Lightning Axe
4 Soul Spike
1 Unburial Rites
3 Zombie Infestation
24 other spells
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Pestilence Demon
4 Thoughtseize
2 Through the Breach
3 Torpor Orb
15 sideboard cards
Still seems really cool. like when you take 1 combo deck that doesnt work well enough on its own, so you add in more...
I'll take 20.
Reposted for wtf value.
As long as they share a common road, it only gets stronger if you can morph from one line of play to another.
At any rate, it looks surprisingly sound. You're aiming to bin stuff that enables Ooze to do degenerate things, from Goryoan Griselbrand to spamming free Soul Spikes to drawing up for a ridiculous Zombie Infestation (seems like the worst case line of play) or turning into Assault Loam by binning Borborygmos.
I think it's a legit concept.
Absolutely nanners, though.
Edit:
Needs more Cadaverous Bloom.
Seriously though, in addition to all the obvious tacks, it could be able to steal wins with activated abilities in your opponent's yard, too.
Sure, each of those categories has a deck that sits on top (Jund, Melira Pod, UWR) but those can be upset really easily. Look at RG Tron, which I expect to become even more popular than it already is. If it becomes a major player it will demand the tempo and creatureless combo decks (like Storm or reanimator) to make a showing.
The point is, I like the direction the format is headed.
Regarding running a 4-color deck without fetchlands:
MostlyLost on Cockatrice.
We can't be sure that it is in such a cycle until after GP Brisbane and GP Antwerp. If those two events see a shift as we might expect away from Jund and to the decks that beat Jund, then I agree with you and all is well. But if we see another GP Detroit Jundathon, or more Melira Pod wins, then that's a bit more worrisome. MTGO is also going to take a lot longer to adjust to the metagame cycles because most people there follow the lead of big events. Currently, Jund is at about 16% of the MTGO metagame, which is 4% points more than Pod at the height of its July popularity. It also makes up about 20% of the 4-0/3-1 finishes, so it's majorly overperforming. But again, MTGO players tend to take leads from big events, so this is somewhat to be expected.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I guess I could try to analyze the round-by-round standings... Ugh. Doesn't sound appealing right now.
It's possible. There were a large amount of Tron decks and Tron is the best deck against BGx and good against Melira Pod. Without something like Splinter Twin, they would have dominated the tournament.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Because, some people recognize that everyone is just going to play the best decks (Currently Jund and Melira Pod). Those people will play the decks that prey on those decks. Also, stuff like Splinter Twin will conveniently see less play due to it losing to Jund, which makes RG Tron even better.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Probably the one deck that could shake up the Modern meta that will be born with Theros's release is Combo Elves. From my testing, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx skyrockets the consistency of its big mana plan because it's like Elvish Archdruid if it had Haste, consumed a land drop, and didn't die to Bolt/Path to Exile. With a more consistent big mana plan, the percentage of wins that come from Summoner's Pact into Craterhoof Behemoth increases, so its match-ups with aggro and combo will improve. (Combo Elves also might start fusing with Aggro Elves because of the increased consistency of the Hoof plan.)
I've found that Combo Elves has a favourable pre-board match-up with Jund and Pod and probably even pre-board match-ups with Tempo Twin and GW Hatebears (keep in mind that I'm fighting through 2-3 Polukranos, World Eater in my GW Hatebears lists). I've also found that Combo Elves has a better pre-board match-up against combo than Pod does (and that Combo Elves is probably the most comparable to Pod--both have many-piece creature-based combos and mana ramp). Compensating by having a worse UWR Control match-up does suck, though.
(On another note, I've now crammed so much big mana into my Combo Elves list that I've actually comboed off with Beck // Call through Deceiver Exarch on Breeding Pool and I've actually hardcast Hoof for lethal through Pestermite on Nykthos (both against Tempo Twin in testing). Admittedly, a Nykthos-fuelled Turn 3 Regal Force helps with that Pestermite case.)
Thus, assuming that Combo Elves's increase in power comes with an increase in play, I predict that Jund and Pod will get worse and that UWR and RG Tron will improve.
In my memory, don't the "top decks" usually get overplayed on modo but then underperform, which usually results in, "See, X wasn't the best after all!"
Granted, this is probably at least partially attributable to that deck being played by new people who aren't as good with it, and people building more hate in, but still - Jund isn't "easy" to play, but it's not extremely hard, and there aren't a lot of great "jund hate" cards out there.
doomsaying.
Doomsaying, and gross overexaggeration of the day to day situation.
I might be baseless in saying this, but I'm sure it's an expected human behavioral pattern in competitive games to play what wins, without much thought into "why" it wins; the end result would be overrepresentation of certain elements with results that do not follow with what one expects of the "good" deck.
Or, so I'm inclined to believe.
I don't dabble in the numbers and trend data, so my comment here is as good as a load of bricks by my own admission.
But what I want to be made clear is that sometimes, you want to take these results with a grain of salt.
Or perhaps do yearly reports on the trends of deck popularity and other factors. Would make for an interesting case study in the cyclical nature of the metagame.
"The deck that every time I lose too I feel like I did something wrong in a past life to deserve this and contemplate the choices I've made that lead me up to this moment."
That's the long name. Most people just call it "amulet of vigor"
It seems like BG Rock, with access to 4 Tectonic Edge and 4 Fulminator Mage, has put a damper on it.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Honestly as someone who plays this deck(although a much different list trying things out) i am shocked this version is able to 4-0 so often. It seems incredibly weak to a single thoughtseize, turns all the opponents bolts on g1(and 2 since most leave them in with nothing better to add) and probably floods out a ton (flood pretty consistently with an extra serum vision, 1 less land and 2 Gifts ungiven). I guess giving up consistency for speed works pretty well for him
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
4 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
2 River of Tears
2 Seachrome Coast
1 Swamp
2 Temple of Deceit
2 Temple of Silence
1 Watery Grave
23 lands
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Zur the Enchanter
12 creatures
3 Detention Sphere
3 Disfigure
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
1 Rest in Peace
3 Sleight of Hand
1 Spreading Seas
2 Steel of the Godhead
3 Thoughtseize
1 Threads of Disloyalty
25 other spells
oh my god, this deck.
I love it. I want to see it become part of the meta.