This thread should not be surprised if mods close it and remake it with some ground rules, one of which could very well be treating RL suggestions as spam.
This thread should not be surprised if mods close it and remake it with some ground rules, one of which could very well be treating RL suggestions as spam.
How likely is Mother of Runes te reappear ? Ist the only Card im interested in to convert over to Modern.
As long as she has to go through Standard, it's virtually impossible.
+1 for remaking the thread, slapping it with a sticky, and laying down some ground rules with an OP that contains all the reserved list cards. It'll make people actually think about what they're posting.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Since it's clearly something a lot of people want, and MARO has said the design is interesting and not too strong for standard, how likely do you guys think it is that Innocent Blood gets reprinted in Eldritch Moon?
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
That is one interaction, but I think it actually helps the lantern's opponent. It helps them draw an unknown card against lantern (you predict the top card as the spell resolves, too late for them to mill it). Also, Lantern players may not want to draw two cards at once. If they draw two lands, they could just die if it lets their opponent get under their bridge.
Since it's clearly something a lot of people want, and MARO has said the design is interesting and not too strong for standard, how likely do you guys think it is that Innocent Blood gets reprinted in Eldritch Moon?
Back to basics is never going through standard since MARO has stated that land destruction type cards are all but dead. Innocent blood's best chance both flavor wise and balance wise is through Eldrich Moon since: Liliana is there, there will probably be more recurring zombies in that set, etc.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
I want to cast Hymn to Tourach but I also don't want to play Legacy.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Back to basics is never going through standard since MARO has stated that land destruction type cards are all but dead. Innocent blood's best chance both flavor wise and balance wise is through Eldrich Moon since: Liliana is there, there will probably be more recurring zombies in that set, etc.
I'd love to see Innocent Blood with an Innistrad art, since it's the setting where they're not afraid to push the limits on the disturbing. I mean, the art with zombies doesn't evoke the same feeling as the name.
I was thinking the other day about the 2 mana kill spells; there is no perfect one in a single color. Doom Blade, Go For the Throat, and Victim of Night all have important weaknesses. It seems fitting that there is no perfect 2 mana counter in mono-blue. Certainly Terminate is the perfect 2 mana kill spell. What, if anything, would be the analogue for counter spells. Is there anything in UW or UB that's similar/could be reprinted?
Of course it's also possible that I'm thinking about this incorrectly and Thoughtseize is the correct comparison for Counterspell
I was thinking the other day about the 2 mana kill spells; there is no perfect one in a single color. Doom Blade, Go For the Throat, and Victim of Night all have important weaknesses. It seems fitting that there is no perfect 2 mana counter in mono-blue. Certainly Terminate is the perfect 2 mana kill spell. What, if anything, would be the analogue for counter spells. Is there anything in UW or UB that's similar/could be reprinted?
Of course it's also possible that I'm thinking about this incorrectly and Thoughtseize is the correct comparison for Counterspell
There's no analogue for counterspells in that case because removal that can hit any creature isn't the same as a counterspell that can hit any spell. With removal, you're talking about a type of spell that can usually hit 80%* of its possible targets (or 100% in Terminate's case) which only make up less than 50%** of existing Magic cards. That means the average removal spell can hit approximately 40% of cards (50% for Terminate). Compare that to counterspells, most often broken up into noncreature vs. creature (50/50ish). The ten percent jump in effectiveness you see with Terminate is nothing compared to suddenly making the counterspell able to handle 100% (+50%!) of spells in Magic. Not only that, but Counterspells also nullify enter the battlefield effects, which removal spells do not.
It's acknowledged that there's an unfortunate lack of middle ground between 2 and 3, as that is the fairest place for Counterspell to be. That's why you see a lot of two mana counterspells with additional effects, like Countersquall. Land destruction faces the same issue, with 3 generally being considered too cheap and 4 being too expensive.
* This 80% assumes there's an even color distribution of creatures and ignores artifacts. A crude guess, but the number gets the point across. Also ignoring creatures with protection, hexproof, etc.
** According to Gatherer there are 8379 creatures and 6988 non-creature, non-lands. Number includes silver bordered cards and there are some weird non-creature, non-land types like phenomenon but the number is pretty close to accurate. 50/50 used for simplicity and close-enoughness
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
Your argument ignores the fundamental problem with countermagic vs removal--Countermagic MUST be deployed before a threat can resolve; Removal can work at any point. In a deck with 40 counterspells and 20 lands, one resolved threat is good game. In a deck with 40 removal spells and 20 lands, it's unlikely to lose to any single creature.
Drawing counterspells on anything other than an empty board is as good as drawing nothing, which is why removal is more restrictive. There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Your argument ignores the fundamental problem with countermagic vs removal--Countermagic MUST be deployed before a threat can resolve; Removal can work at any point. In a deck with 40 counterspells and 20 lands, one resolved threat is good game. In a deck with 40 removal spells and 20 lands, it's unlikely to lose to any single creature.
Drawing counterspells on anything other than an empty board is as good as drawing nothing, which is why removal is more restrictive. There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers.
You're not wrong, but that also highlights one of the issues with two mana counterspells that can hit anything. If your deck is 20 lands and 40 counterspells and you're on the play, and they don't have a one-drop, they'll literally never resolve a threat (assuming you draw the same number of counterspells as they do threats, which works for the sake of the vacuum). As they run out of lower drops you're only going to get more efficient, too.
I don't necessarily think a two mana counterspell would be overpowered in Modern. Mana Leak exists and it's pretty close. But there is no Terminate-analogous complicated mana costed Counterspell variant. Counterspell is, in a vacuum, better than Terminate, and making it cost UG or UB isn't going to change that.
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
Now that dredge is picking up in popularity, I kind of wish they would print Scourge of Nel Toth in modern. Yes, it's ridiculously powerful because of the built in Dread Return, but given it's a vanilla 6/6 flying bomb it doesn't feel as broken as cheating things into play with the typical cards.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Now that dredge is picking up in popularity, I kind of wish they would print Scourge of Nel Toth in modern. Yes, it's ridiculously powerful because of the built in Dread Return, but given it's a vanilla 6/6 flying bomb it doesn't feel as broken as cheating things into play with the typical cards.
Now that dredge is picking up in popularity, I kind of wish they would print Scourge of Nel Toth in modern. Yes, it's ridiculously powerful because of the built in Dread Return, but given it's a vanilla 6/6 flying bomb it doesn't feel as broken as cheating things into play with the typical cards.
Yes, please. Synergizes with dredge, makes Bridge from Below more of a thing, and doesn't wantonly violate the turn four rule like other dredge gems. Sign me up!
Now that dredge is picking up in popularity, I kind of wish they would print Scourge of Nel Toth in modern. Yes, it's ridiculously powerful because of the built in Dread Return, but given it's a vanilla 6/6 flying bomb it doesn't feel as broken as cheating things into play with the typical cards.
Ha, forgot about that hidden gem. Back in the day it was sort of an odd ball, but with modern dredge he'd fit in great. Scourge looks more broken then he actually is because of the sacrifice effect. You'd need to have two creatures recur on turn 2, then sacrifice both plus have two black just to get the dragon in play. Earliest I've ever gotten Scourge of Nel Toth into play with modern dredge was turn 2, and it involved having to sacrifice two bloodghast plus having the right lands out to do it. Prized Amalgam can make a bit of a difference.
Ichorid is just plain better than the dragon due to haste, though.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
With the unbaning of AV my hopes for a Divert reprint has been ignited once more. With SoI block being graveyard centered, i hope to see ghastly demise again.
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Thanks to SpiderBoy4 @ High-Light Studio's for the awesome banner
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
Reserve List.
This thread should not be surprised if mods close it and remake it with some ground rules, one of which could very well be treating RL suggestions as spam.
As long as she has to go through Standard, it's virtually impossible.
+1 for remaking the thread, slapping it with a sticky, and laying down some ground rules with an OP that contains all the reserved list cards. It'll make people actually think about what they're posting.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Because infect needs another card that protects it's stuff?
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I'd replace curfew with counterspell, everything else looks very solid.
Oh and undermine
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
Curfew has a higher chance of getting through standard and I like how unique it is. It always bounces a creature no questions asked.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
2. Counterspell
3. Counterspell
4. Counterspell
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Innocent Blood
Counterspell
Curfew
Carrion Feeder
Back to Basics
Since it's clearly something a lot of people want, and MARO has said the design is interesting and not too strong for standard, how likely do you guys think it is that Innocent Blood gets reprinted in Eldritch Moon?
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
Back to basics is never going through standard since MARO has stated that land destruction type cards are all but dead. Innocent blood's best chance both flavor wise and balance wise is through Eldrich Moon since: Liliana is there, there will probably be more recurring zombies in that set, etc.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I'd love to see Innocent Blood with an Innistrad art, since it's the setting where they're not afraid to push the limits on the disturbing. I mean, the art with zombies doesn't evoke the same feeling as the name.
There's always cube and EDH... but that's nowhere near as predictable.
Of course it's also possible that I'm thinking about this incorrectly and Thoughtseize is the correct comparison for Counterspell
then play Rise/fall its a decent alternative
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
There's no analogue for counterspells in that case because removal that can hit any creature isn't the same as a counterspell that can hit any spell. With removal, you're talking about a type of spell that can usually hit 80%* of its possible targets (or 100% in Terminate's case) which only make up less than 50%** of existing Magic cards. That means the average removal spell can hit approximately 40% of cards (50% for Terminate). Compare that to counterspells, most often broken up into noncreature vs. creature (50/50ish). The ten percent jump in effectiveness you see with Terminate is nothing compared to suddenly making the counterspell able to handle 100% (+50%!) of spells in Magic. Not only that, but Counterspells also nullify enter the battlefield effects, which removal spells do not.
It's acknowledged that there's an unfortunate lack of middle ground between 2 and 3, as that is the fairest place for Counterspell to be. That's why you see a lot of two mana counterspells with additional effects, like Countersquall. Land destruction faces the same issue, with 3 generally being considered too cheap and 4 being too expensive.
* This 80% assumes there's an even color distribution of creatures and ignores artifacts. A crude guess, but the number gets the point across. Also ignoring creatures with protection, hexproof, etc.
** According to Gatherer there are 8379 creatures and 6988 non-creature, non-lands. Number includes silver bordered cards and there are some weird non-creature, non-land types like phenomenon but the number is pretty close to accurate. 50/50 used for simplicity and close-enoughness
Living End Contributor and Enthusiast
Come Pucatrade with me
Rules Advisor
Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
Drawing counterspells on anything other than an empty board is as good as drawing nothing, which is why removal is more restrictive. There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
You're not wrong, but that also highlights one of the issues with two mana counterspells that can hit anything. If your deck is 20 lands and 40 counterspells and you're on the play, and they don't have a one-drop, they'll literally never resolve a threat (assuming you draw the same number of counterspells as they do threats, which works for the sake of the vacuum). As they run out of lower drops you're only going to get more efficient, too.
I don't necessarily think a two mana counterspell would be overpowered in Modern. Mana Leak exists and it's pretty close. But there is no Terminate-analogous complicated mana costed Counterspell variant. Counterspell is, in a vacuum, better than Terminate, and making it cost UG or UB isn't going to change that.
Living End Contributor and Enthusiast
Come Pucatrade with me
Rules Advisor
Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I would rather see Ichorid reprinted.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Yes, please. Synergizes with dredge, makes Bridge from Below more of a thing, and doesn't wantonly violate the turn four rule like other dredge gems. Sign me up!
Ha, forgot about that hidden gem. Back in the day it was sort of an odd ball, but with modern dredge he'd fit in great. Scourge looks more broken then he actually is because of the sacrifice effect. You'd need to have two creatures recur on turn 2, then sacrifice both plus have two black just to get the dragon in play. Earliest I've ever gotten Scourge of Nel Toth into play with modern dredge was turn 2, and it involved having to sacrifice two bloodghast plus having the right lands out to do it. Prized Amalgam can make a bit of a difference.
Ichorid is just plain better than the dragon due to haste, though.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath