Seems like a cool card but needs to be built around. Barrack is the obvious culprit, and midrange decks don't want to be drawing dead in the lategame. Shame you can't abuse it with Phantasmagorian
Yeah yeah, I'm just horny for this card. I want to slip it into Soul Sister's for god's sake.
Better than sliced bread? Probably, as good as Deathrite? Probably not.
Turbo Megrim anyone?
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My Modern decks: B/R/G Living End G/R/B G/R Tron R/G U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
Its really not that powerful. The only deck that may want it is the rack deck and even then I'm pretty sure that its not a 4 of.
Lectrys is right. It's very similar to YP except its worse as it isn't a creature.
By itself it does nothing, when they run out of cards its dead.
I've played legacy loam pox for years and its not even good there. It might be good in EDH, but not here.
This is partially true and partially false. It's really not similar to YP other than the fact that they are both value boosters. YP boosts a bunch of tempo-y spells. Waste Not boosts your discard effects. The question is, what deck would want to waste a slot on such a booster?
The rack deck you alluded to (called 8Rack) is probably the only really viable home for the card at this point. Jund might look at it for a bit, but their list is jammed with all kinds of good stuffs; they have no real use for this. Mono Black Control might take a couple looks at this card, but I think ultimately their plan to control the board does not really have much room for it either.
8Rack on the other hand has been just sitting there for months now, getting developed and streamlined. It performs quite well as is. Waste Not puts gas in the tank, adds another win condition, and accelerates. All for the bargain price of 2 mana on an enchantment which is the most difficult permanent to remove...
The card will take the deck to another level, increasing its consistency, flexibility and potency all at the same time. It need not even be run as a 4 of to accomplish this. I was thinking more of a 3 of.
Waste Not seems like too high variance. There are games where it's nut but they all include casting it on turn 2, having it survive, then having a discard spell. I'd rather run playsets of either Shrieking Affliction or The Rack before even touch the card. Topdecking it late game when the opponent is out of cards is infinitely worse than drawing a rack effect. I find it funny how good it is against Living End decks.
Not really. You can take stuff out for it, but it won't make it more powerful than it already is, it'll just make it different at best, if Jund decides to even run it...which is unlikely. Hand disruption is a big part of Jund/BG, but it's got better threats to back up hand disruption...not this. Why would you cast waste not then a hand disruption spell, when you could just cast a hand disruption spell, then cast a tarmogoyf...or bob or...you get the idea.
People will try it in Jund, but I don't see this card fitting in with Jund very well.
You really need two triggers from it to break even. By itself it isn't doing anything, but it'll make up for that in two triggers. After that you are profiting. So the question really is, is it worth playing if it requires three triggers for profit?
Probably not...
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
You gotta know I am going to be testing the hell out of it when it is printed. I wish I had a better paper group so that I could proxy it and see what I can make of it, but I am pretty interested none the less.
Wow, yeah, that'll really help the momentum in discard decks which need to be as fast as possible if they actually wanna achieve something.
Derp.
What this sentiment fails to take into account is the unilateral nature of a lot of the mid-late cards, so for example in Eightrack you really want as small a hand as possible and are using cards like Liliana as engines. You just discard what you don't need.
What would they take out of their deck for it? Besides, they usually like to make you discard during their first or second turn. I don't think Jund would get a lot of value out of this card.
What would they take out of their deck for it? Besides, they usually like to make you discard during their first or second turn. I don't think Jund would get a lot of value out of this card.
Correct. Jund has no use for this card. This card is designed for a deck dedicated to discard. There's only 1 deck in modern attempting to do this currently.
Well I can finally start using my Liliana of the Veils to great advantage. I love discard strategies, but only if discard is their main strategy of the deck.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Its added value for the rack deck, mostly because it creates blockers (the deck dies horrably to fast aggro with out bridge) but the extra mana is nice, but not broken. That card draw though... that is... insanely good there.
Also! IT WONT HELP JUND. I know people are thinking it. the deck wants to either t1 discard, turn 2 confidant (who always draws...) or turn 1 deathrite, turn 2 lili. This fits none of those. Even the heavier discard rock decks would rather more discard (aka Wrench Mind) to do T1 discard, t2 discard, t3 tarmo/lili. It only fits rock/pox decks.
Wow. Wizards invented a card that will be super fun for anyone who doesn't actually have to play against it.
In any game, a certain amount of removal is necessary, be it discard, counterspelling, or creature removal, but usually players can only play so much, as they need to have a strategy to win the game and that takes up some of their deck. Now you can make a deck that does nothing but sits back and makes nothing happen, and you eventually win the game. It's like delver all over again. It won't be a big deal in Standard (notice how they tested in standard) but it will be a pain in the ass in Modern. Yep, draw-go is back, and it's black.
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Things WotC cares about:
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
Wow. Wizards invented a card that will be super fun for anyone who doesn't actually have to play against it.
In any game, a certain amount of removal is necessary, be it discard, counterspelling, or creature removal, but usually players can only play so much, as they need to have a strategy to win the game and that takes up some of their deck. Now you can make a deck that does nothing but sits back and makes nothing happen, and you eventually win the game. It's like delver all over again. It won't be a big deal in Standard (notice how they tested in standard) but it will be a pain in the ass in Modern. Yep, draw-go is back, and it's black.
The deck you are envisioning already exists and does pretty well without this card. With this card...
The deck you are envisioning already exists and does pretty well without this card. With this card...
Yes. Megrim/Shrieking Affliction/Liliana's Caress. I've played against it before, and each time, one of two things happens depending on the deck I'm playing:
-I utterly fail to accomplish anything, get trounced, and feel utterly powerless
-I eventually win a long, drawn out game, then wonder why I couldn't play two short, exciting games instead.
For a long time I only played aggro, and this sort of thing was the reason why. Aggro has dynamic, interesting matches with lots of interaction and strategy, with wins and losses often being decided on the final turn. And with aggro, you can always play the game. You can't always win, but you can always play and enjoy the experience. Meanwhile, control has become "I play win condition, countercountercountercounter or discarddiscarddiscarddiscard." It's so repetitive. I'd rather lose to Zoo than win against Draw-Go. But we're getting off topic.
This card will probably make Megrim a thing in Modern. Maybe even tier one, I'm not sure (depends on your definition of tier one). On the plus side, maybe with it in Standard WotC will finally print some decent discard hate other than Leyline of Sanctity and Loxodon Smiter, since until now they just assumed discard decks were simply not a big enough threat to worry about.
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Things WotC cares about:
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
Still, a lot of you seem to like it, so it's better they print this than another vanilla 2/2 no one cares about.
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Things WotC cares about:
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
This card will probably make Megrim a thing in Modern. Maybe even tier one, I'm not sure (depends on your definition of tier one).
Maybe but I don't think so.
I see megrim competing with this card not complimenting it. Megrim and Waste Not are doing similar things - giving your added value to your discard spells. The problem is - Megrim already has enough of those spells...they need all the room they have in the deck for discard spells. Furthermore the megrim spells actually deal damage and are thus used as the primary win condition. You can't dump megrims and put these in its place.
Waste Not is different. It belongs in a discard deck that doesn't use megrims as the road to victory...
Unless you're making your opponent draw cards, then forcing them to discard (Or they simply draw a ton of cards), this is going to be doing its work quite slowly after its first turn or so in play.
You are right that it can be a slow game, but 8R survives slow games pretty well. Besides, your opponent often draws cards on their own so, it is not that hard to find targets for D/C.
Tested this in a 8Rack shell in place of Bridge. Silly things took place. It fits in that deck but might actually be better in a deck with Wistful Thinking.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Tested this in a 8Rack shell in place of Bridge. Silly things took place. It fits in that deck but might actually be better in a deck with Wistful Thinking.
I think it opens up a lot of new cards and avenues of attack.
If this effect was printed as a planeswalker's ability (if this ability replaces ashiok's -x as a -2) that reads "target player discard a card, if it's a land card do x if it's a creature do y and if it's none of the above, you draw a card.
or even just +1 or -1, until next turn, whenever your opponent discards a card, do blah blah blah, that'll be much much better. primarily because this ability is useless when you get to top deck mode. and this card's purpose is really to fuel a control deck and give you advantage, not to serve as a wincon
Why are people thinking this is not a wincon or to slow to play? I've tested it in 8 rack. It is it's it's 3rd wincon. Also, with the new Waste Not, 8 rack turns into a combo deck. I have litterally made my opponent discard their entire hand on turn 2 in play testing.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Yeah yeah, I'm just horny for this card. I want to slip it into Soul Sister's for god's sake.
Better than sliced bread? Probably, as good as Deathrite? Probably not.
Turbo Megrim anyone?
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
This is partially true and partially false. It's really not similar to YP other than the fact that they are both value boosters. YP boosts a bunch of tempo-y spells. Waste Not boosts your discard effects. The question is, what deck would want to waste a slot on such a booster?
The rack deck you alluded to (called 8Rack) is probably the only really viable home for the card at this point. Jund might look at it for a bit, but their list is jammed with all kinds of good stuffs; they have no real use for this. Mono Black Control might take a couple looks at this card, but I think ultimately their plan to control the board does not really have much room for it either.
8Rack on the other hand has been just sitting there for months now, getting developed and streamlined. It performs quite well as is. Waste Not puts gas in the tank, adds another win condition, and accelerates. All for the bargain price of 2 mana on an enchantment which is the most difficult permanent to remove...
The card will take the deck to another level, increasing its consistency, flexibility and potency all at the same time. It need not even be run as a 4 of to accomplish this. I was thinking more of a 3 of.
I think eternal formats would find a better use for it in that regard.
Currently Playing:
Modern:
Tron
Titan-Shift
Not really. You can take stuff out for it, but it won't make it more powerful than it already is, it'll just make it different at best, if Jund decides to even run it...which is unlikely. Hand disruption is a big part of Jund/BG, but it's got better threats to back up hand disruption...not this. Why would you cast waste not then a hand disruption spell, when you could just cast a hand disruption spell, then cast a tarmogoyf...or bob or...you get the idea.
People will try it in Jund, but I don't see this card fitting in with Jund very well.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Probably not...
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
What this sentiment fails to take into account is the unilateral nature of a lot of the mid-late cards, so for example in Eightrack you really want as small a hand as possible and are using cards like Liliana as engines. You just discard what you don't need.
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What would they take out of their deck for it? Besides, they usually like to make you discard during their first or second turn. I don't think Jund would get a lot of value out of this card.
Correct. Jund has no use for this card. This card is designed for a deck dedicated to discard. There's only 1 deck in modern attempting to do this currently.
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U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Also! IT WONT HELP JUND. I know people are thinking it. the deck wants to either t1 discard, turn 2 confidant (who always draws...) or turn 1 deathrite, turn 2 lili. This fits none of those. Even the heavier discard rock decks would rather more discard (aka Wrench Mind) to do T1 discard, t2 discard, t3 tarmo/lili. It only fits rock/pox decks.
In any game, a certain amount of removal is necessary, be it discard, counterspelling, or creature removal, but usually players can only play so much, as they need to have a strategy to win the game and that takes up some of their deck. Now you can make a deck that does nothing but sits back and makes nothing happen, and you eventually win the game. It's like delver all over again. It won't be a big deal in Standard (notice how they tested in standard) but it will be a pain in the ass in Modern. Yep, draw-go is back, and it's black.
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
The deck you are envisioning already exists and does pretty well without this card. With this card...
Yes. Megrim/Shrieking Affliction/Liliana's Caress. I've played against it before, and each time, one of two things happens depending on the deck I'm playing:
-I utterly fail to accomplish anything, get trounced, and feel utterly powerless
-I eventually win a long, drawn out game, then wonder why I couldn't play two short, exciting games instead.
For a long time I only played aggro, and this sort of thing was the reason why. Aggro has dynamic, interesting matches with lots of interaction and strategy, with wins and losses often being decided on the final turn. And with aggro, you can always play the game. You can't always win, but you can always play and enjoy the experience. Meanwhile, control has become "I play win condition, countercountercountercounter or discarddiscarddiscarddiscard." It's so repetitive. I'd rather lose to Zoo than win against Draw-Go. But we're getting off topic.
This card will probably make Megrim a thing in Modern. Maybe even tier one, I'm not sure (depends on your definition of tier one). On the plus side, maybe with it in Standard WotC will finally print some decent discard hate other than Leyline of Sanctity and Loxodon Smiter, since until now they just assumed discard decks were simply not a big enough threat to worry about.
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
Still, a lot of you seem to like it, so it's better they print this than another vanilla 2/2 no one cares about.
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
Maybe but I don't think so.
I see megrim competing with this card not complimenting it. Megrim and Waste Not are doing similar things - giving your added value to your discard spells. The problem is - Megrim already has enough of those spells...they need all the room they have in the deck for discard spells. Furthermore the megrim spells actually deal damage and are thus used as the primary win condition. You can't dump megrims and put these in its place.
Waste Not is different. It belongs in a discard deck that doesn't use megrims as the road to victory...
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
I think it opens up a lot of new cards and avenues of attack.
Turbo Megrim, minus the Megrim.
Sadly, it's a bad thing in Modern to give your opponent gas to burn you out with.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
or even just +1 or -1, until next turn, whenever your opponent discards a card, do blah blah blah, that'll be much much better. primarily because this ability is useless when you get to top deck mode. and this card's purpose is really to fuel a control deck and give you advantage, not to serve as a wincon
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon