Basically BG/x Midrange is extremely powerful. It has been shown to be almost Legacy power level. Jund in Legacy is basically old modern jund, upgraded with duals, wastelands, and Hymn to Tourach. To lower this powerlevel you need to ban many cards out of the BG/x shell which simultaneously would hurt other decks and anger many many players.
You need to print spells to allow other archetypes to compete with the Midrange archetype. Lantern was on a good track with unbanning Ancestral Visions and Nacatl. Midrange wins by playing efficiency and out valuing its opposition. The answer is to allow decks to be A) Faster than it B) Out last it with a better late game or C) Both.
So straight aggro is a great way to make a fair deck that is faster than midrange. Printing good aggro creatures that don't fit into the BG/x midrange shell is a solid idea. Unbanning nacatl could work too.
Tempo could keep midrange off pace, and be faster. It's still a fair deck. This is harder to do without getting people upset, but something like Daze, Force Spike, etc. would go a long way to push Tempo.
That is how you be faster than BG/x Midrange without being unfair. The other option is to go over the top with a better late game. This is how Tron does it.
So you need to print things that allow for lategame strategies to win out and make it there. Ancestral Visions allows for these decks to get out from BG/x disruption and go over them with CA. Thopter Sword combo is a solid late game plan that would beat it is another example.
There is no WOE IS ME BG/X WILL ALWAYS INCORPORATE ANYTHING AND BE UNBEATABLE situation here. The key is for good cards that do not fit the midrange game plan.
Glad to see someone actually read my post rather then just joining in on the ban wagon.
Id love to see cards printed to help this situation by giving control a real CA rather than just cycle. Tempo should be fine, but are beaten down by midrange attrition. Pump aggro a bit, and you have a deck that can beat control as well as threaten midrange.
Jund is a deck that has 50-50 against the meta. when it starts to have 60-40 you'll see the meta shift to jund just because "pros" would rather take lots of small chances rather then 1 big one and auto loses.
So challange jund back into 50-50. make them say "in my flex spots I can sure up my game against control with walkers... or more removal against tempo... or finks for aggro... or discard for combo... But I can have all of it. you do this by making these archtypes as strong as jund.
If the solution is printing new cards, then Jund will be a problem for quite some time. It takes time for them to create the cards and we probably won't get them until the middle of the next block. Also, Sword of the Meek and Wild Nacatl might hurt aggro, so it is not the right time to unban them right now.
Wait. Nacatl might hurt aggro? o.O
And sword of the meek takes a bit too long to come online (being a 2 card combo AND being vulnerable to graveyard hate) to be a hurdle to aggro. It might hurt aggro in the sense that it might be a better control finisher than what we have right now, but that's not too important against aggro, since if control's managed to stabilize 99% of the time aggro is just dead.
And sword of the meek takes a bit too long to come online (being a 2 card combo AND being vulnerable to graveyard hate) to be a hurdle to aggro. It might hurt aggro in the sense that it might be a better control finisher than what we have right now, but that's not too important against aggro, since if control's managed to stabilize 99% of the time aggro is just dead.
The way I've heard it (and the reason Wizards said it was banned), it pushed other aggro decks out of the format because Naya Zoo was so much better than any other deck other than Affinity. I don't believe that, but it is something to think about.
Jund is too good! Broken, I tell you! Oh, wait, Pod is too good! Ban melira!
The common theme behind these decks, apart from the obligatory "LOL BAN FOREST" idiocy, is DRS. If anything should be banned, it's him. That said, I don't think that any card deserves a ban at this point. Wizards should instead be looking at cards to break up the BGx stranglehold on the format.
Man, sounds like an epic finals, a duel between the former-boogeyman-of-the-format and the current-boogeyman, two highly interactive decks being piloted by two great players, so no chance of another faerie macabre punt this time.
Good thing then that Wizards decided not to show us, I guess.
The common theme behind these decks, apart from the obligatory "LOL BAN FOREST" idiocy, is DRS. If anything should be banned, it's him. That said, I don't think that any card deserves a ban at this point. Wizards should instead be looking at cards to break up the BGx stranglehold on the format.
I thought the common theme behind these decks is IT HIT TOP 8 AGAIN, GET THE PITCHFORKS doomsaying.
Oh God no. Here come the people shouting for Birthing Pod/Melira/Chord of Calling bans. Again.
I have previously argued that the most surgical Melira Pod ban would be Viscera Seer because Twin Pod uses Melira as an anti-Infect bullet and Murderous Redcap as a removal 4-drop Persist guy (for faster Pod combos), and taking out Viscera Seer would eliminate all Turn 3 combos and probably remove all Turn 4 non-combo wins (as far as I have been able to calculate, all Turn 4 non-combo wins involve goldfishing, Turn 2 Seer + Voice of Resurgence, and saccing Voice immediately).
I thought the common theme behind these decks is IT HIT TOP 8 AGAIN, GET THE PITCHFORKS doomsaying.
The common theme is that both decks are historic overperformers for months on MTGO. June and July were the months of Melira Pod, where it enjoyed a disproportionate 10% share of the overall MTGO metagame and a 14% share of the 4-0/3-1 decks. For August and September, it was Jund and BG Rock with basically the same stats (higher, when both decks are taken as a unit). Maybe the pendulum will swing back again, but given GP Detroit, we can expect MTGO to be just a reflection of the top metagame for at least a few weeks. It's not great from a format diversity perspective.
And again, none of this is to suggest that either deck requires a ban. It is just to say that a) IF a card deserves a ban, which it DOESN'T CURRENTLY, it's DRS. And b) The format has too much BGx in it right now and could use a little unbanning action to shake things up.
Time to cast my vote. Every tournament has people getting ready to call on the banhammer, but I hate the whole ban concept. Every time a card is banned, it means Wizards messed up, it means loss of money for players, it means people quitting, it means a whole bunch of bad stuff. Banning DRS is ludicrous, the card was just printed, it's still in standard! It's a hate card that got printed because all the GY cards were too strong.
So unban everything you can and print more power in U and W. With all the uncounterable spells, vials and caverns, control could use a li'l help.
Aside from that it seems to me that the online meta is doing fine, so why would a GP be a more conclusive case for balance?
I could discuss all the things wizards could do to help modern be more diverse for days and days. Point is, as long as people keep complaining about the stuff that wins, wizards is never going to cater to the losing side. Instead, they'll keep nerfing the winning side, which at this point is just beating a dead horse.
Wizards is probably sitting with their heads in their hands, whispering, "where did we screw up this badly with the format?" since the format's inception, GBx has been strong. and they've only printed better stuff for it.
i kind of wish i could have watched what happened in the finals. granted, i wouldn't have enjoyed the top 8 that much, being the type of player i am. i would have cheered for affinity..
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I speak in sarcasm because calling people ******* ******** is not allowed.
Aside from that it seems to me that the online meta is doing fine, so why would a GP be a more conclusive case for balance?
Because most decks can go 4-0 and 3-1 on an average day online. Very few decks can go 7-2 to make it to Day two of a GP and even fewer decks can finish X-2 to get into top 8. The decks that do are super consistent/redundant.
Wizards is probably sitting with their heads in their hands, whispering, "where did we screw up this badly with the format?" since the format's inception, GBx has been strong. and they've only printed better stuff for it.
i kind of wish i could have watched what happened in the finals. granted, i wouldn't have enjoyed the top 8 that much, being the type of player i am. i would have cheered for affinity..
Overgrown tomb decks dominating is the result of Modern being a turn 4 format.
The card pool in Modern allows for decks relying on 5-6 mana spells that crush midrange decks to exist. But as long as you're getting comboed out on turn 4, those decks are unplayable.
Glad to see someone actually read my post rather then just joining in on the ban wagon.
Id love to see cards printed to help this situation by giving control a real CA rather than just cycle. Tempo should be fine, but are beaten down by midrange attrition. Pump aggro a bit, and you have a deck that can beat control as well as threaten midrange.
Jund is a deck that has 50-50 against the meta. when it starts to have 60-40 you'll see the meta shift to jund just because "pros" would rather take lots of small chances rather then 1 big one and auto loses.
So challange jund back into 50-50. make them say "in my flex spots I can sure up my game against control with walkers... or more removal against tempo... or finks for aggro... or discard for combo... But I can have all of it. you do this by making these archtypes as strong as jund.
QUICK, EVERYONE CHANGE GEARS IMMEDIATELY, IT'S TIME FOR PODGROANING.
Wait. Nacatl might hurt aggro? o.O
And sword of the meek takes a bit too long to come online (being a 2 card combo AND being vulnerable to graveyard hate) to be a hurdle to aggro. It might hurt aggro in the sense that it might be a better control finisher than what we have right now, but that's not too important against aggro, since if control's managed to stabilize 99% of the time aggro is just dead.
Oh God no. Here come the people shouting for Birthing Pod/Melira/Chord of Calling bans. Again.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
As a Boros player I'd rather like not feeling punished for omitting Green.
The way I've heard it (and the reason Wizards said it was banned), it pushed other aggro decks out of the format because Naya Zoo was so much better than any other deck other than Affinity. I don't believe that, but it is something to think about.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
The common theme behind these decks, apart from the obligatory "LOL BAN FOREST" idiocy, is DRS. If anything should be banned, it's him. That said, I don't think that any card deserves a ban at this point. Wizards should instead be looking at cards to break up the BGx stranglehold on the format.
Good thing then that Wizards decided not to show us, I guess.
I thought the common theme behind these decks is IT HIT TOP 8 AGAIN, GET THE PITCHFORKS doomsaying.
Meanwhile, at the Legion of Doom, Verdant Catacombs were being cracked.
I have previously argued that the most surgical Melira Pod ban would be Viscera Seer because Twin Pod uses Melira as an anti-Infect bullet and Murderous Redcap as a removal 4-drop Persist guy (for faster Pod combos), and taking out Viscera Seer would eliminate all Turn 3 combos and probably remove all Turn 4 non-combo wins (as far as I have been able to calculate, all Turn 4 non-combo wins involve goldfishing, Turn 2 Seer + Voice of Resurgence, and saccing Voice immediately).
The common theme is that both decks are historic overperformers for months on MTGO. June and July were the months of Melira Pod, where it enjoyed a disproportionate 10% share of the overall MTGO metagame and a 14% share of the 4-0/3-1 decks. For August and September, it was Jund and BG Rock with basically the same stats (higher, when both decks are taken as a unit). Maybe the pendulum will swing back again, but given GP Detroit, we can expect MTGO to be just a reflection of the top metagame for at least a few weeks. It's not great from a format diversity perspective.
And again, none of this is to suggest that either deck requires a ban. It is just to say that a) IF a card deserves a ban, which it DOESN'T CURRENTLY, it's DRS. And b) The format has too much BGx in it right now and could use a little unbanning action to shake things up.
really sad about the lack of video, the written reports are really lacking...
LOL, almost any Legion of Doom joke will get a laugh out of me. You are on a roll, Dotmatrix. You made that Finkel joke as well.
So unban everything you can and print more power in U and W. With all the uncounterable spells, vials and caverns, control could use a li'l help.
Aside from that it seems to me that the online meta is doing fine, so why would a GP be a more conclusive case for balance?
I could discuss all the things wizards could do to help modern be more diverse for days and days. Point is, as long as people keep complaining about the stuff that wins, wizards is never going to cater to the losing side. Instead, they'll keep nerfing the winning side, which at this point is just beating a dead horse.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
i kind of wish i could have watched what happened in the finals. granted, i wouldn't have enjoyed the top 8 that much, being the type of player i am. i would have cheered for affinity..
Because most decks can go 4-0 and 3-1 on an average day online. Very few decks can go 7-2 to make it to Day two of a GP and even fewer decks can finish X-2 to get into top 8. The decks that do are super consistent/redundant.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/232
There's your answer.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
The card pool in Modern allows for decks relying on 5-6 mana spells that crush midrange decks to exist. But as long as you're getting comboed out on turn 4, those decks are unplayable.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpdet13/welcome
Yep here ya go.