You have a lot of one drops. If you have the money to drop Ranger of Eos, it would be worth it, and Mentor might actually be playable then.
Private Mod Note
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Things WotC cares about:
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
For white weenie, you want cheap cards you can get into the field quickly. I would recommend replacing the angel with Angelic Destiny. Same cost, but must more effective when placed on a Mirren Crusader. If you want to hose pod, put Stony Silencce in your sideboard, and include several O-Rings in your main board.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Things WotC cares about:
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
For white weenie, you want cheap cards you can get into the field quickly. I would recommend replacing the angel with Angelic Destiny. Same cost, but must more effective when placed on a Mirren Crusader. If you want to hose pod, put Stony Silencce in your sideboard, and include several O-Rings in your main board.
So, would you recommend not using hero of bladehold or other turn 4s? Top off at 3CMC?
So, would you recommend not using hero of bladehold or other turn 4s? Top off at 3CMC?
It depends on how much land you have; but I wouldn't go to 5.
I think you need to decide what cards you want to build around. Champion of the Parish implies tribal human, Honour of the Pure says mono-white, War Falcon says soldier, and some of the other cards suggest token. You need to pick. Also, you should probably splash another color. It almost never pays to go mono, even if you don't want to play fetchlands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Things WotC cares about:
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
It depends on how much land you have; but I wouldn't go to 5.
I think you need to decide what cards you want to build around. Champion of the Parish implies tribal human, Honour of the Pure says mono-white, War Falcon says soldier, and some of the other cards suggest token. You need to pick. Also, you should probably splash another color. It almost never pays to go mono, even if you don't want to play fetchlands.
My mana base will prolly be 20
I want to play mono white if at all possible. Not a fan of dual colors or lands.
The nice thing about champion of parish is that most soldiers are human, so I can still run war hawk. What would be the token difference?
I want to play mono white if at all possible. Not a fan of dual colors or lands.
The nice thing about champion of parish is that most soldiers are human, so I can still run war hawk. What would be the token difference?
For tokens, you would run intangible virtue and splash black to flashback lingering souls.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Things WotC cares about:
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
Dude, it's much, much better than HoP. It not only comes with a 3/3 flying body that pumps all your creatures (bonus), but it stops sac lands, Griselbrand, Pod, and most other silly little combo decks one might run into out there. I wouldn't main deck it (especially if you're going aggro), but it's a pretty good sideboard choice.
In modern, the general rule is that the creature needs to do one or more of the following in order to be playable:
1) Affect the game state immediately. If the creature's main role is to attack, but it has to come in and wait for a turn before it can attack, it's behind the 8-ball. (This is the primary reason that Hero of Bladehold has fallen out of favor; even though it offers 7 power for four mana when it swings, it has to swing first.) Examples of these types of cards: Dryad Militant, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Iona, Shield of Emeria.
2) Have an Enters the Battlefield effect that can make losing that creature tolerable. There's so much good creature control out there that you have to expect that (sans protection) your creatures are going to die. Example creatures: Aven Mindcensor, Banisher Priest.
3) Come with evasion/protection. If your creature can be easily chump-blocked, then you have to clear the way for it with spells in order for it to hit when it counts. The problem with this, however, is that now you have cards that aren't as good without other cards (i.e. HoB isn't as good without PtE removing blockers), a common error in non-combo deck construction. Examples of these types of cards: Mirran Crusader, Baneslayer Angel
4) Offer long-term value at a low cost. A guy like Bob (Dark Confidant) falls here because, left unchecked, he generates a ton of card advantage for only 2 mana. Other examples: Soul Warden
5) Be good on its own. Note: this is very different from being made good by other things. It's tempting to say "if I equip such-and-such with a Sword of Fire and Ice then it's really awesome," but the reality is that if it needs that Sword, then it's the Sword that's doing the work and you should probably use something better. If you're down to your last draw and you need something, anything to win the game, then drawing a War Falcon is not going to help. The other problem with War Falcon (not to pick on the bird) is that opponents can simply kill everything around it and have the side benefit of neutering it at the same time. Don't make your opponents' kill spells better.
As far as the archetype, WW is not going to outrace tuned aggro r/(w/g) decks. What it has going for it, however, is its cheap utility creatures. Sticks like Dryad Militant, Thalia, Banisher Priest, etc. offer value beyond attacking and blocking and can swing the game in your favor long-term. At this point you're not pure aggro, but that's okay - white has some really good mid-range creatures that can take over the game, you just have to survive to get there.
Let's go over your card choices in light of the above:
Elite Vanguard: Dryad Militant is strictly better, unless you're planning on playing anything from the grave. Given that you're mono white, Lingering Souls isn't an issue, so go with the Militant Doomed Traveler: I like this guy, but if I'm the opponent, I watch him hit the battlefield and don't even worry about him for at least 10 turns. That's not what you want out of a creature. On the other hand, an unchecked Soul Warden can be a big problem for other decks, such as Red burn decks that rely on being able to hit you with 7 lightning bolt effects. Having to go to 8 or 9 can really kill their chances of winning. Champion of the Parish: Again, this is the mistaken corrolary to rule #5. He's useless on his own. If you play him anywhere but first or second turn, he's going to end up a 2/2 or 3/3 without any evasion or ETB effect. Martyr of Sands is a devastating little card that can often gain you 9-12 life second turn before it gets killed. War Falcon: Seems legit at first, but that requirement is rough. A card like Judge's Familiar - while it has less power - basically makes all of their "good" spells cost more (until they kill it). Very, very efficient little creature, and not expensive to obtain, either. Mirran Crusader: awesome card, has evasion and protection. The only problem is how to make him better, as when I use him I often find myself getting chumped all day long by things like Lingering souls. Another one you might want to consider (given your meta) is Stillmoon Cavalier, which has some very relevant protections and some interesting pump effects to take it long-game. Honor of the Pure: Compare it to Glory Seeker. Glory Seeker is better if you only have one creature (when you're behind). They're pretty much equal if you have 2 creatures, and HoP comes out a little better the more creatures you have. That's to say, the more you're winning, the better the spell becomes (provided they're not chumping your creatures). That's not good enough - you want creatures that get tough when the tough gets going. Though it's more expensive, Serra Avenger is almost certainly better - you can me more confidant that that 3 extra power is getting through.
The benefit of White Weenie, again though, is in its utility creatures. You want to make sure that you're getting full value from these guys before you bring in your big guns to finish things off.
So what are they good against?
Soul Warden: most aggro decks - this little guy can buy you some needed time.
Dryad Militant: This caulkblocks up Snapcaster Mage, Lingering Souls, etc. She'll probably die, but anything that needs to be answered is good in my book.
Judge's Familiar: Good against almost everything in the format - will protect you from Thoughtseize and its ilk. Your opponents will end up wasting their creature control on it in order to make sure their other stuff doesn't get countered.
Martyr of Sands: like an uber-Soul Warden, she gains life a lot more quickly. Good again against most aggro decks.
Ethersworn Canonist: She'll slow you down a little bit, but she keeps most of those pesky combo decks in check.
Thalia: This deck probably packs fewer non-creature spells than any in the format. Brutal against hexproof aura decks.
Leonin Arbiter: Preventing Library search (even at a cost) is awesome. There're so many sac lands floating around that having this guy out just gunks up the machinery.
True Believer: Screw you, Liliana
Samurai of the Pale Curtain: Like a Dryad Militant for permanents, this protects you against those pesky combo decks.
Banisher Priest/Fiend Hunter: Getting rid of creatures is good, I'm told. These guys are good at that.
Mirror Entity and Brave the Elements: Your finishers. It won't be uncommon to have 5 or 6 guys out, and pumping them up to four and getting them through is key. BtE is flat-out awesome, and I think Mirror Entity could be strong enough to be worth giving a try.
Dude, it's much, much better than HoP. It not only comes with a 3/3 flying body that pumps all your creatures (bonus), but it stops sac lands, Griselbrand, Pod, and most other silly little combo decks one might run into out there. I wouldn't main deck it (especially if you're going aggro), but it's a pretty good sideboard choice.
In modern, the general rule is that the creature needs to do one or more of the following in order to be playable:
1) Affect the game state immediately. If the creature's main role is to attack, but it has to come in and wait for a turn before it can attack, it's behind the 8-ball. (This is the primary reason that Hero of Bladehold has fallen out of favor; even though it offers 7 power for four mana when it swings, it has to swing first.) Examples of these types of cards: Dryad Militant, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Iona, Shield of Emeria.
2) Have an Enters the Battlefield effect that can make losing that creature tolerable. There's so much good creature control out there that you have to expect that (sans protection) your creatures are going to die. Example creatures: Aven Mindcensor, Banisher Priest.
3) Come with evasion/protection. If your creature can be easily chump-blocked, then you have to clear the way for it with spells in order for it to hit when it counts. The problem with this, however, is that now you have cards that aren't as good without other cards (i.e. HoB isn't as good without PtE removing blockers), a common error in non-combo deck construction. Examples of these types of cards: Mirran Crusader, Baneslayer Angel
4) Offer long-term value at a low cost. A guy like Bob (Dark Confidant) falls here because, left unchecked, he generates a ton of card advantage for only 2 mana. Other examples: Soul Warden
5) Be good on its own. Note: this is very different from being made good by other things. It's tempting to say "if I equip such-and-such with a Sword of Fire and Ice then it's really awesome," but the reality is that if it needs that Sword, then it's the Sword that's doing the work and you should probably use something better. If you're down to your last draw and you need something, anything to win the game, then drawing a War Falcon is not going to help. The other problem with War Falcon (not to pick on the bird) is that opponents can simply kill everything around it and have the side benefit of neutering it at the same time. Don't make your opponents' kill spells better.
As far as the archetype, WW is not going to outrace tuned aggro r/(w/g) decks. What it has going for it, however, is its cheap utility creatures. Sticks like Dryad Militant, Thalia, Banisher Priest, etc. offer value beyond attacking and blocking and can swing the game in your favor long-term. At this point you're not pure aggro, but that's okay - white has some really good mid-range creatures that can take over the game, you just have to survive to get there.
Let's go over your card choices in light of the above:
Elite Vanguard: Dryad Militant is strictly better, unless you're planning on playing anything from the grave. Given that you're mono white, Lingering Souls isn't an issue, so go with the Militant Doomed Traveler: I like this guy, but if I'm the opponent, I watch him hit the battlefield and don't even worry about him for at least 10 turns. That's not what you want out of a creature. On the other hand, an unchecked Soul Warden can be a big problem for other decks, such as Red burn decks that rely on being able to hit you with 7 lightning bolt effects. Having to go to 8 or 9 can really kill their chances of winning. Champion of the Parish: Again, this is the mistaken corrolary to rule #5. He's useless on his own. If you play him anywhere but first or second turn, he's going to end up a 2/2 or 3/3 without any evasion or ETB effect. Martyr of Sands is a devastating little card that can often gain you 9-12 life second turn before it gets killed. War Falcon: Seems legit at first, but that requirement is rough. A card like Judge's Familiar - while it has less power - basically makes all of their "good" spells cost more (until they kill it). Very, very efficient little creature, and not expensive to obtain, either. Mirran Crusader: awesome card, has evasion and protection. The only problem is how to make him better, as when I use him I often find myself getting chumped all day long by things like Lingering souls. Another one you might want to consider (given your meta) is Stillmoon Cavalier, which has some very relevant protections and some interesting pump effects to take it long-game. Honor of the Pure: Compare it to Glory Seeker. Glory Seeker is better if you only have one creature (when you're behind). They're pretty much equal if you have 2 creatures, and HoP comes out a little better the more creatures you have. That's to say, the more you're winning, the better the spell becomes (provided they're not chumping your creatures). That's not good enough - you want creatures that get tough when the tough gets going. Though it's more expensive, Serra Avenger is almost certainly better - you can me more confidant that that 3 extra power is getting through.
The benefit of White Weenie, again though, is in its utility creatures. You want to make sure that you're getting full value from these guys before you bring in your big guns to finish things off.
So what are they good against?
Soul Warden: most aggro decks - this little guy can buy you some needed time.
Dryad Militant: This caulkblocks up Snapcaster Mage, Lingering Souls, etc. She'll probably die, but anything that needs to be answered is good in my book.
Judge's Familiar: Good against almost everything in the format - will protect you from Thoughtseize and its ilk. Your opponents will end up wasting their creature control on it in order to make sure their other stuff doesn't get countered.
Martyr of Sands: like an uber-Soul Warden, she gains life a lot more quickly. Good again against most aggro decks.
Ethersworn Canonist: She'll slow you down a little bit, but she keeps most of those pesky combo decks in check.
Thalia: This deck probably packs fewer non-creature spells than any in the format. Brutal against hexproof aura decks.
Leonin Arbiter: Preventing Library search (even at a cost) is awesome. There're so many sac lands floating around that having this guy out just gunks up the machinery.
True Believer: Screw you, Liliana
Samurai of the Pale Curtain: Like a Dryad Militant for permanents, this protects you against those pesky combo decks.
Banisher Priest/Fiend Hunter: Getting rid of creatures is good, I'm told. These guys are good at that.
Mirror Entity and Brave the Elements: Your finishers. It won't be uncommon to have 5 or 6 guys out, and pumping them up to four and getting them through is key. BtE is flat-out awesome, and I think Mirror Entity could be strong enough to be worth giving a try.
That was a great little primer!
I didnt even think about the judge's familiar, seems like an excellent choice. I am going to go with the serra avenger as my 2 drop choice, dat vigilance is too sweet to ignore, even on turn 4.
Now, what about mentor of the meek? With not running honor of the pure, and everything costing 3 or less, I think I would be able to have the extra mana to spend. Card advantage in an aggro deck is sweet, I'm worried it might be a little too slow though.
Everything is cheap, cost effective, and most of all, the whitest of weenies. Keep drawing cards untill I hit serra avenger or figure of destiny. Dat vigilance and flying.
I didnt even think about the judge's familiar, seems like an excellent choice. I am going to go with the serra avenger as my 2 drop choice, dat vigilance is too sweet to ignore, even on turn 4.
Now, what about mentor of the meek? With not running honor of the pure, and everything costing 3 or less, I think I would be able to have the extra mana to spend. Card advantage in an aggro deck is sweet, I'm worried it might be a little too slow though.
Everything is cheap, cost effective, and most of all, the whitest of weenies. Keep drawing cards untill I hit serra avenger or figure of destiny. Dat vigilance and flying.
Mentor of the Meek is exactly what you'd think he is - a slow source of card advantage. Keep in mind that you don't want to try to do too many things, either - you can't do everything well. Your deck isn't aggressive enough to belch out 20 damage in four/five turns. It's slow, building up enough pieces to muck with opponent strategies over the long-haul. Mentor of the Meek, in this style of deck, has a role. He also helps dig for your finishers (which you need). Give him a try and see what happens.
I actually don't like Serra Avenger in your deck. It's really the only offensive threat, and "only" three damage. It doesn't do much on its own. Yes, it has flying and vigilance, but I'm not sure if it's enough on its own. What you're really looking for is a card that will pump all your creatures (like Mirror Entity) and/or push through damage.
If you're only going 20 lands, you might also want to consider Knight of the White Orchid. He's similar to the Avenger in that he's not a card you want to be casting second turn even though he's only two mana. He'd be a nice little boon to your mana development - especially if you run Mentor of the Meek, which you'll find can be quite mana hungry.
Mentor of the Meek is exactly what you'd think he is - a slow source of card advantage. Keep in mind that you don't want to try to do too many things, either - you can't do everything well. Your deck isn't aggressive enough to belch out 20 damage in four/five turns. It's slow, building up enough pieces to muck with opponent strategies over the long-haul. Mentor of the Meek, in this style of deck, has a role. He also helps dig for your finishers (which you need). Give him a try and see what happens.
I actually don't like Serra Avenger in your deck. It's really the only offensive threat, and "only" three damage. It doesn't do much on its own. Yes, it has flying and vigilance, but I'm not sure if it's enough on its own. What you're really looking for is a card that will pump all your creatures (like Mirror Entity) and/or push through damage.
If you're only going 20 lands, you might also want to consider Knight of the White Orchid. He's similar to the Avenger in that he's not a card you want to be casting second turn even though he's only two mana. He'd be a nice little boon to your mana development - especially if you run Mentor of the Meek, which you'll find can be quite mana hungry.
I got to do some play testing and I must say, mentor of the meek was really good. Slow burn, but always got cards in my hand. Basically, white is aggressively costed for the long haul.
Could hero of blade hold be my finisher then? Serra avenger actually helped me out quite a bit tonight, since it is only two mana
I am actually having little trouble with lands. Everything is aggressively costed, and when mentor is out, I draw all the lands I need. Although mentor is very mana hungry, I never had an issue with the 20 land count. I'll do a little review of each of the cards I played with tonight if it will help people:
Dryad Militant: great beater, cheap, effective. Didnt run into any snapcasters tonight though.
Judge's familiar: Dont underestimate this little guy. Helped me stave off infect pumps long enough to stabilize the board. And a flyer to boot!
soul warden: Not a bad card at all. Opponet has to deal with it or it can get very annoying.
samurai of the pale curtain: Actually did a lot of work for me, impressed with it. in combat, its a 3/3, otherwise, a grizzly bear with an upside.
leonin arbiter: Didnt have much to do with him, but his ability is sure to be relavent in a competative meta.
Mirran Crusader: Def a close second for MVP. 3CMC for essentially a 4/2 first strike protection from green and black, two colors essential to modern.
mentor of the meek: The unsung hero of the deck. Keep the deck going when its running out of steam. Great card, and one of the only cards that give white card advantage.
fiend hunter: A fine man. removal and a big booty all in one. I would run banisher priest over her tho.
serra avenger: I really like this card. its a beater, but in bolt range. Vigilance makes the card worth playing, although I'll be looking for substitutes or better cards.
The benefit of White Weenie, again though, is in its utility creatures. You want to make sure that you're getting full value from these guys before you bring in your big guns to finish things off.
I love this, and everything else you said. Please consider writing a primer at some point.
So if you were to splash a color, what would it be? I would guess green, for Gaddock Teeg?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Things WotC cares about:
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
I think heliod costs too much, for too slow of an effect to be good maindeck. With that said, I could see him as SB tec for long grindy matches (heres looking at you jund)
I love this, and everything else you said. Please consider writing a primer at some point.
So if you were to splash a color, what would it be? I would guess green, for Gaddock Teeg?
black, for lingering souls and discard, IMO. I've been thinking about how to change soul sisters to make it more disruptive, and this is my preliminary decklist (I ended up ditching the sisters plan completely). To me, it still feels like white weenie, even though it runs a lot more disruption instead of just being a swarm aggro plan.
The game plan is to play discard spells turns 1 & 2, then drop some tokens, then start the beats turn 4, hopefully with an anthem. The deck should be able to generate a swarm pretty fast, and if they somehow stop the initial onslaught, then hero of bladehold, blood baron of vizkopa, or simply more tokens should be able to keep pressure up. An active vault of the archangel + tokens makes it hard to lose against a fair deck late game.
If death and taxes is considered white weenie, I'd say its quite viable. Otherwise, they'll need to create some way of card filtering, aka white brainstorm, for the deck to have some consistency.
If death and taxes is considered white weenie, I'd say its quite viable. Otherwise, they'll need to create some way of card filtering, aka white brainstorm, for the deck to have some consistency.
Well, we have card draw with mentor of the meek. Otherwise, that really isnt white's specialty.
Soldier of the Pantheon can probably find its way into this deck, sharing or replacing a slot with Dryad Militant. Off the top of my head, it can block/can't be blocked by Geist, DRS, Fulminator Mage...okay, so maybe it's not that useful. It's also resistant to Helix Terminate and while that isn't much, might be occasionally relevant?
I'm sure there are a lot of obvious cards I'm missing that aren't coming to mind right now too. Maybe.
Basically, if you want to open packs to get cards for Standard and Modern, the simpler approach is to just buy all the singles you need and then set some money on fire to make up the difference.
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Decks I play and stuff.
Legacy Burn
Modern Mono U Tron
20 Plains
Creatures
1 drops 28
4 doomed travler
4 champion of parish
4 dryad captin
4 War hawk
4 elite vanguard
4righteous blow will trade out for Paths when I get the Money
4 brave the elements
2 drops, 8
4 Thalia
4 Precinct captain or honor of the pure
3 Drops; 6
4 Mirrin Crusader
2 Banisher Preist or mentor the meek
4 drops; 2
angel of jubilation
Sideboard:
4 Kor Firewalker
4 Oblivion ring
Need more cards
I need to minus 4 cards, what you guys recommend? Also, can I fit in a serra's avenger?
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
What would the decklist be like then?
What do Y'all think of angel of jubilation?
I think it's an expensive Honor of the Pure
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
But its a flying body and hoses birthing pod
For white weenie, you want cheap cards you can get into the field quickly. I would recommend replacing the angel with Angelic Destiny. Same cost, but must more effective when placed on a Mirren Crusader. If you want to hose pod, put Stony Silencce in your sideboard, and include several O-Rings in your main board.
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
My list would look something like this:
4 elite vanguard
4 doomed travler
4 champion of the parish
4 war falcon
4 dryad militant
4 path to exile
4 brave the elements
4 Thalia
4 honor of the pure
4 mirran crusader
20 lands
What would you recommend taking out for angelic destiny? What about mentor of the meek? Can I squeeze in precinct captain?
So, would you recommend not using hero of bladehold or other turn 4s? Top off at 3CMC?
It depends on how much land you have; but I wouldn't go to 5.
I think you need to decide what cards you want to build around. Champion of the Parish implies tribal human, Honour of the Pure says mono-white, War Falcon says soldier, and some of the other cards suggest token. You need to pick. Also, you should probably splash another color. It almost never pays to go mono, even if you don't want to play fetchlands.
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
My mana base will prolly be 20
I want to play mono white if at all possible. Not a fan of dual colors or lands.
The nice thing about champion of parish is that most soldiers are human, so I can still run war hawk. What would be the token difference?
For tokens, you would run intangible virtue and splash black to flashback lingering souls.
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
What would be the better choice, mono white weenie or tokens?
Should I worry about war falcon or just forget it and go with honor of the pure?
Dude, it's much, much better than HoP. It not only comes with a 3/3 flying body that pumps all your creatures (bonus), but it stops sac lands, Griselbrand, Pod, and most other silly little combo decks one might run into out there. I wouldn't main deck it (especially if you're going aggro), but it's a pretty good sideboard choice.
In modern, the general rule is that the creature needs to do one or more of the following in order to be playable:
2) Have an Enters the Battlefield effect that can make losing that creature tolerable. There's so much good creature control out there that you have to expect that (sans protection) your creatures are going to die. Example creatures: Aven Mindcensor, Banisher Priest.
3) Come with evasion/protection. If your creature can be easily chump-blocked, then you have to clear the way for it with spells in order for it to hit when it counts. The problem with this, however, is that now you have cards that aren't as good without other cards (i.e. HoB isn't as good without PtE removing blockers), a common error in non-combo deck construction. Examples of these types of cards: Mirran Crusader, Baneslayer Angel
4) Offer long-term value at a low cost. A guy like Bob (Dark Confidant) falls here because, left unchecked, he generates a ton of card advantage for only 2 mana. Other examples: Soul Warden
5) Be good on its own. Note: this is very different from being made good by other things. It's tempting to say "if I equip such-and-such with a Sword of Fire and Ice then it's really awesome," but the reality is that if it needs that Sword, then it's the Sword that's doing the work and you should probably use something better. If you're down to your last draw and you need something, anything to win the game, then drawing a War Falcon is not going to help. The other problem with War Falcon (not to pick on the bird) is that opponents can simply kill everything around it and have the side benefit of neutering it at the same time. Don't make your opponents' kill spells better.
As far as the archetype, WW is not going to outrace tuned aggro r/(w/g) decks. What it has going for it, however, is its cheap utility creatures. Sticks like Dryad Militant, Thalia, Banisher Priest, etc. offer value beyond attacking and blocking and can swing the game in your favor long-term. At this point you're not pure aggro, but that's okay - white has some really good mid-range creatures that can take over the game, you just have to survive to get there.
Let's go over your card choices in light of the above:
Doomed Traveler: I like this guy, but if I'm the opponent, I watch him hit the battlefield and don't even worry about him for at least 10 turns. That's not what you want out of a creature. On the other hand, an unchecked Soul Warden can be a big problem for other decks, such as Red burn decks that rely on being able to hit you with 7 lightning bolt effects. Having to go to 8 or 9 can really kill their chances of winning.
Champion of the Parish: Again, this is the mistaken corrolary to rule #5. He's useless on his own. If you play him anywhere but first or second turn, he's going to end up a 2/2 or 3/3 without any evasion or ETB effect. Martyr of Sands is a devastating little card that can often gain you 9-12 life second turn before it gets killed.
War Falcon: Seems legit at first, but that requirement is rough. A card like Judge's Familiar - while it has less power - basically makes all of their "good" spells cost more (until they kill it). Very, very efficient little creature, and not expensive to obtain, either.
Mirran Crusader: awesome card, has evasion and protection. The only problem is how to make him better, as when I use him I often find myself getting chumped all day long by things like Lingering souls. Another one you might want to consider (given your meta) is Stillmoon Cavalier, which has some very relevant protections and some interesting pump effects to take it long-game.
Honor of the Pure: Compare it to Glory Seeker. Glory Seeker is better if you only have one creature (when you're behind). They're pretty much equal if you have 2 creatures, and HoP comes out a little better the more creatures you have. That's to say, the more you're winning, the better the spell becomes (provided they're not chumping your creatures). That's not good enough - you want creatures that get tough when the tough gets going. Though it's more expensive, Serra Avenger is almost certainly better - you can me more confidant that that 3 extra power is getting through.
The benefit of White Weenie, again though, is in its utility creatures. You want to make sure that you're getting full value from these guys before you bring in your big guns to finish things off.
Let me give you an example:
4 Soul Warden
3 Dryad Militant
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Martyr of Sands
2 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Leonin Arbiter
2 True Believer
2 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Banisher Priest
2 Fiend Hunter
3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Mirror Entity
15 Plains
4 Tectonic Edge
4 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Brave the Elements
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 True Believer
1 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Frontline Medic
So what are they good against?
Soul Warden: most aggro decks - this little guy can buy you some needed time.
Dryad Militant: This caulkblocks up Snapcaster Mage, Lingering Souls, etc. She'll probably die, but anything that needs to be answered is good in my book.
Judge's Familiar: Good against almost everything in the format - will protect you from Thoughtseize and its ilk. Your opponents will end up wasting their creature control on it in order to make sure their other stuff doesn't get countered.
Martyr of Sands: like an uber-Soul Warden, she gains life a lot more quickly. Good again against most aggro decks.
Ethersworn Canonist: She'll slow you down a little bit, but she keeps most of those pesky combo decks in check.
Thalia: This deck probably packs fewer non-creature spells than any in the format. Brutal against hexproof aura decks.
Leonin Arbiter: Preventing Library search (even at a cost) is awesome. There're so many sac lands floating around that having this guy out just gunks up the machinery.
True Believer: Screw you, Liliana
Samurai of the Pale Curtain: Like a Dryad Militant for permanents, this protects you against those pesky combo decks.
Banisher Priest/Fiend Hunter: Getting rid of creatures is good, I'm told. These guys are good at that.
Mirror Entity and Brave the Elements: Your finishers. It won't be uncommon to have 5 or 6 guys out, and pumping them up to four and getting them through is key. BtE is flat-out awesome, and I think Mirror Entity could be strong enough to be worth giving a try.
That was a great little primer!
I didnt even think about the judge's familiar, seems like an excellent choice. I am going to go with the serra avenger as my 2 drop choice, dat vigilance is too sweet to ignore, even on turn 4.
Now, what about mentor of the meek? With not running honor of the pure, and everything costing 3 or less, I think I would be able to have the extra mana to spend. Card advantage in an aggro deck is sweet, I'm worried it might be a little too slow though.
Edit: Here is my new revised list:
1 drops
4 judge’s familiars
4 dryad millitants
4 Soul warden
4 mayter of the sands
4 figure of destiny
2 drops
4 thalia
4 leonin arbiter
3 drops
4 banister priest
4 mirran crusader
2 mentor of the meek
“4 drop”
2 serra avenger
4 Paths
4 braves
20 lands
Everything is cheap, cost effective, and most of all, the whitest of weenies. Keep drawing cards untill I hit serra avenger or figure of destiny. Dat vigilance and flying.
Mentor of the Meek is exactly what you'd think he is - a slow source of card advantage. Keep in mind that you don't want to try to do too many things, either - you can't do everything well. Your deck isn't aggressive enough to belch out 20 damage in four/five turns. It's slow, building up enough pieces to muck with opponent strategies over the long-haul. Mentor of the Meek, in this style of deck, has a role. He also helps dig for your finishers (which you need). Give him a try and see what happens.
I actually don't like Serra Avenger in your deck. It's really the only offensive threat, and "only" three damage. It doesn't do much on its own. Yes, it has flying and vigilance, but I'm not sure if it's enough on its own. What you're really looking for is a card that will pump all your creatures (like Mirror Entity) and/or push through damage.
If you're only going 20 lands, you might also want to consider Knight of the White Orchid. He's similar to the Avenger in that he's not a card you want to be casting second turn even though he's only two mana. He'd be a nice little boon to your mana development - especially if you run Mentor of the Meek, which you'll find can be quite mana hungry.
I got to do some play testing and I must say, mentor of the meek was really good. Slow burn, but always got cards in my hand. Basically, white is aggressively costed for the long haul.
Could hero of blade hold be my finisher then? Serra avenger actually helped me out quite a bit tonight, since it is only two mana
I am actually having little trouble with lands. Everything is aggressively costed, and when mentor is out, I draw all the lands I need. Although mentor is very mana hungry, I never had an issue with the 20 land count. I'll do a little review of each of the cards I played with tonight if it will help people:
Dryad Militant: great beater, cheap, effective. Didnt run into any snapcasters tonight though.
Judge's familiar: Dont underestimate this little guy. Helped me stave off infect pumps long enough to stabilize the board. And a flyer to boot!
soul warden: Not a bad card at all. Opponet has to deal with it or it can get very annoying.
Boros elite: Underwhelming, do not recommend.
2 drops
thalia: AMAZING. By far the MVP of the deck.
samurai of the pale curtain: Actually did a lot of work for me, impressed with it. in combat, its a 3/3, otherwise, a grizzly bear with an upside.
leonin arbiter: Didnt have much to do with him, but his ability is sure to be relavent in a competative meta.
Mirran Crusader: Def a close second for MVP. 3CMC for essentially a 4/2 first strike protection from green and black, two colors essential to modern.
mentor of the meek: The unsung hero of the deck. Keep the deck going when its running out of steam. Great card, and one of the only cards that give white card advantage.
fiend hunter: A fine man. removal and a big booty all in one. I would run banisher priest over her tho.
serra avenger: I really like this card. its a beater, but in bolt range. Vigilance makes the card worth playing, although I'll be looking for substitutes or better cards.
Brave the elements: PROTECT YOUR WEENIES! This did work for me.
and path to exile is always sweet.
Let me know what you guys think. Need a finisher.
I love this, and everything else you said. Please consider writing a primer at some point.
So if you were to splash a color, what would it be? I would guess green, for Gaddock Teeg?
-making certain Standard cards can be played in Modern, therefore increasing their value and increasing WotC's profit margin
Things WotC does not care about:
-keeping the ban list as short as possible
-taking chances with an entire format for the benefit of a single card
-catering to play styles that newer players generally don't like and will lose them more players than it will gain
-keeping the meta balanced between archetypes/colors/whatever
-keeping cards on the secondary market cheap (available yes, but not cheap)
-keeping the meta diverse (as long as a single deck doesn't threaten the popularity of the format)
black, for lingering souls and discard, IMO. I've been thinking about how to change soul sisters to make it more disruptive, and this is my preliminary decklist (I ended up ditching the sisters plan completely). To me, it still feels like white weenie, even though it runs a lot more disruption instead of just being a swarm aggro plan.
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 tidehollow sculler
4 high priest of penance
4 lingering souls
4 spectral procession
4 hero of bladehold
2 blood baron of vizkopa
4 honor of the pure
4 marsh flats
2 verdant catacombs
2 arid mesa
4 isolated chapel
2 godless shrine
2 plains
2 swamp
2 vault of the archangel
3 windbrisk heights
The game plan is to play discard spells turns 1 & 2, then drop some tokens, then start the beats turn 4, hopefully with an anthem. The deck should be able to generate a swarm pretty fast, and if they somehow stop the initial onslaught, then hero of bladehold, blood baron of vizkopa, or simply more tokens should be able to keep pressure up. An active vault of the archangel + tokens makes it hard to lose against a fair deck late game.
sideboard would likely be some combination of leyline of the void, leyline of sanctity, ghost quarter, pithing needle/phyrexian revoker, and artifact/enchantment hate.
Well, we have card draw with mentor of the meek. Otherwise, that really isnt white's specialty.
I'm sure there are a lot of obvious cards I'm missing that aren't coming to mind right now too. Maybe.