Actually, all of us are incorrect.
OK, step by step:
I have Liliana at 3. I haven't activated any of its abilities yet.
I use its -2. Opponent sacrifices a creature.
I cast a second Liliana (3 counters) and bin the first.
End result:
I have a Liliana at 3. I haven't activated any of its abilities yet.
That makes the extra Liliana basically "1BB: Target opponent sacrifices a creature." So much for that.
The next "best case" is Liliana at 1, and using its +1:
I have Liliana at 1. I haven't activated any of its abilities yet.
I use its +1. Each player discards a card
I cast a second Liliana (3 counters) and bin the first.
End result:
I have a Liliana at 3. I haven't activated any of its abilities yet.
Extra Liliana becomes "1BB: Put 2 loyalty counters on Liliana. Each player discards a card."
Buy your Thruns...
Buy your Sigarga's...
Buy your Liliana's...
Buy your Opals...
Sell your damn Phantasmal Images.
got em
got em
got em
don't really care bout em now
seriously .... I am SUPER EXCITED about this new ruling. This rule is going to allow people to open up with there deck building in Modern and with Masters coming soon OMG!!!! This ruling just opens up so many doors in deck building now ...... (shivers)
In any case, the "i have 2 lilianas, and mana to play them while my opponent for some reason is doing nothing at all" case isnt going to be such a common situation, so im not that worried.
Mox Opal
Two decks play this card: Affinity and Puresteel Paladin.
Your Mox no longer destroys your opponent's Mox. This only comes up in mirror matches. This is a good change, since it makes the game less dependent on who plays the first Mox.
What if you cast a second Mox when you already have one on the battlefield? It reads: 0: Untap Mox Opal.
Would you want to do that? In Affinity, of course not. Your curve is very low; extra mana does not help a whole lot except on the first turn.
Strongly agree with everything you just said, except for what's above.
The new Mox Opal rule MIGHT help Affinity's consistency for explosive starts. Remember, if you DIDN'T have a Ravager a second Mox Opal was just a deader than dead card. Now it's basically a Lotus Petal. You realize why that could be dangerous. A 5/2 flyer beating your face on turn 2 is already possible, but might be more consistently possible with this rule change. A 7/2 creature with protection from all colors swinging on turn 2 is now unlikely, but possible.
Strongly agree with everything you just said, except for what's above.
The new Mox Opal rule MIGHT help Affinity's consistency for explosive starts. Remember, if you DIDN'T have a Ravager a second Mox Opal was just a deader than dead card. Now it's basically a Lotus Petal. You realize why that could be dangerous. A 5/2 flyer beating your face on turn 2 is already possible, but might be more consistently possible with this rule change. A 7/2 creature with protection from all colors swinging on turn 2 is now unlikely, but possible.
The vast majority of the time, affinity is not going to want to do that... but I will agree that in rare instances it will be beneficial to "petal" their Opals.
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I'm not sure how it opens up (cards that are being played are just going to be played more with a bit less ways to remove), I'm actually disappointed that clones were neutered. The flavor stinks too.
The vast majority of the time, affinity is not going to want to do that... but I will agree that in rare instances it will be beneficial to "petal" their Opals.
Not trying to be rude, but I don't understand your logic. Opponents aren't going to use artifact hate on Opals. If they resolve a shatterstorm or a 3-4 mana Shattering Spree the game is over already, so holding back an opal is probably worthless.
I'd rather use an extra Mox Opal as a lotus petal then save them on the off chance I topdeck a Ravager and can get a single +1/+1 counter. Remember that most affinity decks use Galvanic Blast over Shrapnel Blast. Obviously if you HAVE the ravager it's different, because that +1/+1 can be the difference in a win or a loss, especially post board. But otherwise... why WOULDN'T you use them as lotus petals?
Not trying to be rude, but I don't understand your logic. Opponents aren't going to use artifact hate on Opals. If they resolve a shatterstorm or a 3-4 mana Shattering Spree the game is over already, so holding back an opal is probably worthless.
I'd rather use an extra Mox Opal as a lotus petal then save them on the off chance I topdeck a Ravager and can get a single +1/+1 counter. Remember that most affinity decks use Galvanic Blast over Shrapnel Blast. Obviously if you HAVE the ravager it's different, because that +1/+1 can be the difference in a win or a loss, especially post board. But otherwise... why WOULDN'T you use them as lotus petals?
You're not being rude, I just didn't fully speak my mind.
Most of the time you are going to want to sacrifice your opal to ravager. Why sac it for nothing when you can sac it for a +1/+1. The amount of explosive hands that affinity would gain from both requiring 1 more mana AND having 2 opals in hand will not be very common.
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Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
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The amount of explosive hands that affinity would gain from both requiring 1 more mana AND having 2 opals in hand will not be very common.
That's a fair point. I'll need to goldfish some hands before I have a strong opinion either way. Remember, you don't always draw a ravager. This still makes Mox Opal NEVER a dead card, which improves consistency.
T1 Etched Champion is still kind of scary, though I suppose T1 Wild Nactl was nearly as scary and only required 1 card (a R or W fetch), where as Champion will require Darksteel Citadel + Memnite/Thopter + 2x Mox Opal.
Ok so it seems like people are suggesting you can use/respond to the second copy of a legendary card before it dies. For example you could play a second flagstone and then tap it before sacking it. Correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't seem to line up with the text in the article.
"When multiple copies are on the battlefield under one player's control, that player chooses one to put into the graveyard as a state-based effect until only one remains."
In fact it doesn't even sound like they get sacked they just get put into the graveyard. I don't know if that will make a huge difference though.
Since the choosing is a state based effect it seems as though you would never get a chance to, for example, use your second flagstone.
Judging by the wording of your post you're assuming that the second legendary permanent is the one that gets sacrificed, and the original must remain in play. It's explicitly stated that that's not the case in the two articles about the rules change that were linked earlier. When you control two copies of the same legendary permanent or two planeswalkers with the same type, you choose which ones go to the graveyard as a state-based effect. It doesn't matter which one goes, as long as you only have one when you're done.
Using Flagstones of Trokair for example, Atrius was correct in their post about it. One in play, one in hand. Tap the one in play for mana, play the one from your hand, tapped one goes to the graveyard and you get your plains, and still have an untapped Flagstones.
The new planeswalker rule works the same way. If you have Liliana of the Veil in play, you can use one of her abilities, play a second one from your hand, and then use that one's abilities as well.
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Or 1BB: Target opponent sacrifices 2 creatures.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
OK, step by step:
I have Liliana at 3. I haven't activated any of its abilities yet.
I use its -2. Opponent sacrifices a creature.
I cast a second Liliana (3 counters) and bin the first.
End result:
I have a Liliana at 3. I haven't activated any of its abilities yet.
That makes the extra Liliana basically "1BB: Target opponent sacrifices a creature." So much for that.
The next "best case" is Liliana at 1, and using its +1:
I have Liliana at 1. I haven't activated any of its abilities yet.
I use its +1. Each player discards a card
I cast a second Liliana (3 counters) and bin the first.
End result:
I have a Liliana at 3. I haven't activated any of its abilities yet.
Extra Liliana becomes "1BB: Put 2 loyalty counters on Liliana. Each player discards a card."
| Ad Nauseam
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Big Johnny.
got em
got em
got em
don't really care bout em now
seriously .... I am SUPER EXCITED about this new ruling. This rule is going to allow people to open up with there deck building in Modern and with Masters coming soon OMG!!!! This ruling just opens up so many doors in deck building now ...... (shivers)
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Strongly agree with everything you just said, except for what's above.
The new Mox Opal rule MIGHT help Affinity's consistency for explosive starts. Remember, if you DIDN'T have a Ravager a second Mox Opal was just a deader than dead card. Now it's basically a Lotus Petal. You realize why that could be dangerous. A 5/2 flyer beating your face on turn 2 is already possible, but might be more consistently possible with this rule change. A 7/2 creature with protection from all colors swinging on turn 2 is now unlikely, but possible.
The vast majority of the time, affinity is not going to want to do that... but I will agree that in rare instances it will be beneficial to "petal" their Opals.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
calling liberals loons=not okay
The standard to which the forum moderators apply the rules here.
Not trying to be rude, but I don't understand your logic. Opponents aren't going to use artifact hate on Opals. If they resolve a shatterstorm or a 3-4 mana Shattering Spree the game is over already, so holding back an opal is probably worthless.
I'd rather use an extra Mox Opal as a lotus petal then save them on the off chance I topdeck a Ravager and can get a single +1/+1 counter. Remember that most affinity decks use Galvanic Blast over Shrapnel Blast. Obviously if you HAVE the ravager it's different, because that +1/+1 can be the difference in a win or a loss, especially post board. But otherwise... why WOULDN'T you use them as lotus petals?
You're not being rude, I just didn't fully speak my mind.
Most of the time you are going to want to sacrifice your opal to ravager. Why sac it for nothing when you can sac it for a +1/+1. The amount of explosive hands that affinity would gain from both requiring 1 more mana AND having 2 opals in hand will not be very common.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
That's a fair point. I'll need to goldfish some hands before I have a strong opinion either way. Remember, you don't always draw a ravager. This still makes Mox Opal NEVER a dead card, which improves consistency.
T1 Etched Champion is still kind of scary, though I suppose T1 Wild Nactl was nearly as scary and only required 1 card (a R or W fetch), where as Champion will require Darksteel Citadel + Memnite/Thopter + 2x Mox Opal.
Using Flagstones of Trokair for example, Atrius was correct in their post about it. One in play, one in hand. Tap the one in play for mana, play the one from your hand, tapped one goes to the graveyard and you get your plains, and still have an untapped Flagstones.
The new planeswalker rule works the same way. If you have Liliana of the Veil in play, you can use one of her abilities, play a second one from your hand, and then use that one's abilities as well.