MTG Salvation

Quote from idm

Quote from Renasce

Quote from arvinsim

Magic was never only a collector's game. Nor is it only a player's game.

Those who claim that Magic is X's game or Y's game is just silly. It has always been in WoTC's best interest to satisfy as many demographics as possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gtqv5vYANI

He's basically saying exactly the same. Funny vid though. Does this mean WotC is freaking out about Modern prices? Because if $20 a card is okay, than what is happening in Modern is certainly NOT okay.

It doesn't mean much of anything in regards to what Wizards of the Coast thinks. Richard Garfield hasn't been heavily involved with the game since Arabian Nights. He occasionally comes in to work as a designer for some sets (e.g. Tempest, Odyssey, Ravnica, Innistrad) but that's mostly it. I'm sure some members of R&D value his opinion on matters, but he definitely isn't speaking for Wizards of the Coast on anything.

I agree with his sentiments, though.

Ah ok, good to know :).

I agree with him too.

Recently made the decision to foil-out a pauper cube so placed an order for a number of the lower priced FNM promos I did not already have through TCGPlayer. Just six days ago I put the FNM Gitaxian Probe in my cart at $4.00, but later removed it in favor of a quantity of other $1 and less FNM promos alongside other regular common foils in the 25 cent range.

I see that Gitaxian Probe sells for $16.00 today. *sigh*

So I'm sure this has been discussed at length all over mtgsalvation, but I wanted a fresh perspective

How safe is it to purchase zendikar fetch lands? Luckily I picked up Tarns when tcg average was around 40 dollars. This has increased a bit since then. I would prefer hold these for the long run, but I was curious if you think it's a good investment to pick up playsets of the ones I don't already have. I think most people think fetches are coming in some kind of reprint. Be it a core set or a modern masters type set. But we don't know when. If when happens to be two years from now I think they could double in price between now and then

I just wanna have them in case I want to play them some day. I'm not Harding for mass returns but I don't wanna feel like a sucker either by getting arid mesas now only to have them drop to ten bucks

Quote from Krovax

So I'm sure this has been discussed at length all over mtgsalvation, but I wanted a fresh perspective

How safe is it to purchase zendikar fetch lands? Luckily I picked up Tarns when tcg average was around 40 dollars. This has increased a bit since then. I would prefer hold these for the long run, but I was curious if you think it's a good investment to pick up playsets of the ones I don't already have. I think most people think fetches are coming in some kind of reprint. Be it a core set or a modern masters type set. But we don't know when. If when happens to be two years from now I think they could double in price between now and then

I just wanna have them in case I want to play them some day. I'm not Harding for mass returns but I don't wanna feel like a sucker either by getting arid mesas now only to have them drop to ten bucks

Fetchlands will be reprinted in the future. When, we do not know. Also, if you have fetchlands and plan to use them, then keep them. But if you don't plan to use them, and if they ever exceed the $100 mark (which I think will be sooner than you think), then I would just go ahead and sell them.

Get them now, definatly. They wont be reprinted in a core set ever, pretty much guaranteed, and wizards might not have planned to reprint them either due to price or gameplay until next modern season in fall of 2015. It is safe to say after this summer they will definatly be higher than they are now so if you plan on using them in the next 1-2 years, get them now. The originals will always be valueable.

Quote from Krovax

So I'm sure this has been discussed at length all over mtgsalvation, but I wanted a fresh perspective

How safe is it to purchase zendikar fetch lands? Luckily I picked up Tarns when tcg average was around 40 dollars. This has increased a bit since then. I would prefer hold these for the long run, but I was curious if you think it's a good investment to pick up playsets of the ones I don't already have. I think most people think fetches are coming in some kind of reprint. Be it a core set or a modern masters type set. But we don't know when. If when happens to be two years from now I think they could double in price between now and then

I just wanna have them in case I want to play them some day. I'm not Harding for mass returns but I don't wanna feel like a sucker either by getting arid mesas now only to have them drop to ten bucks

You are going to get a range of answers, but most people will say that a reprint is inevitable, the only question is when. The odds of them being reprinted in M15 are very tiny, due to shocks still being legal when it is released and the fact that new players don't often see the benefit of paying life for land. The Fall set is a possibility (I think a decent possibility, some think a small possibility) because Shocks will rotate from Standard and if you look at the timeline of price increases there was ample indication when they were designing the set that the fetchlands would need to be reprinted. After that you are looking at Fall of next year since the same core set reasons apply.

My thought is that if you are buying for speculation reasons then only buy if you are really active with the market and have a good way to reliably sell them. I think that people are going to sell them like hotcakes after Modern season in anticipation of reprints because the prices that they are climbing too seems unsustainable in the long term, and I think that while they will still be crazy high during Modern season there will be less willing and able to pay the price as the season goes. They are not the secure buy that something like Goyf is. Goyf is not getting reprinted in significant numbers for the foreseeable future.

If you are buying to play them in the upcoming season and beyond, and you can afford them, then buy them. You might lose a little bit of money at some point when the market dips, but the value you get in playing with them should far surpass any monetary loss.

Quote from DrWorm

If you are buying to play them in the upcoming season and beyond, and you can afford them, then buy them. You might lose a little bit of money at some point when the market dips, but the value you get in playing with them should far surpass any monetary loss.

This. SO. MUCH.

Fewer prints (older set), and more demand since a lot of people prefer the art of the old ones over the new ones.

Quote from Mikep

Theoretically if demand for shock lands in say a year or two's time is driven by new players entering modern, would we see the prices level out? I know if I was new to modern I'd be looking to get a deck cheaply, rather than concerning myself over art or rarity (maybe that's unusual?). Perhaps I'll try to pick up some older ones, but the price puts me off a little!

Even if every new player from here forward considered only cost and bought the best value, and even if shocks continue to make an appearance in a large expansion every four or five years, it won't change the fact a large number of Ravnica-block shocks have been removed from circulation effectively forever. Over the past eight or nine years many have certainly been lost/destroyed, and a large number of others are finding homes in hand-collated complete sets and cubes. Many of these complete sets are in the hands of 20 & 30-somethings and will remain bindered in 9-pocket pages on their bookshelves for the next 50 years.

The limited pool of available copies virtually guarantees the Rav-block versions will command a premium over all subsequent reprints.

As soon as RTR block rotates there will be a slight dip in shock prices, and then they will start to rise. The more people who enter the format, the higher they will go.

Quote from bocephus

As soon as RTR block rotates there will be a slight dip in shock prices, and then they will start to rise. The more people who enter the format, the higher they will go.

This is correct. Anyone who wants to get into the format should buy the shocklands in late August as Standard players begin to dump them.

There are enough shocks in the format that when Standard rotates it shouldn't cause a surge of price spikes. Unlike the fetches, or several other playable dual lands, shocks see almost no play outside of Modern when they aren't Standard legal.

Quote from Thenarus

There are enough shocks in the format that when Standard rotates it shouldn't cause a surge of price spikes. Unlike the fetches, or several other playable dual lands, shocks see almost no play outside of Modern when they aren't Standard legal.

4300 players, a record event, the demand is there. I project them getting back up to the $20-$40 range depending the colors. The more blue does at events, the more demand for blue shocks will be. The whole reason shocks were reprinted was for Modern.

Quote from iamghost

i think wizards will reprint them both to keep them in t2 and to avoid the spike fetches are having right now. they already printed scrylands to help standard manabase, probably they will find something else that will be similar to shocks (if not shocks since they are ravnica-flavored). if they don't, they will rise in value.

Shocks aren't Ravnica flavored. What is Ravnica flavored about a Steam Vent or an Overgrown Tomb?

Quote from iamghost

i think wizards will reprint them both to keep them in t2 and to avoid the spike fetches are having right now. they already printed scrylands to help standard manabase, probably they will find something else that will be similar to shocks (if not shocks since they are ravnica-flavored). if they don't, they will rise in value.

Wotc has said that they do not want shocks and fetches together in Standard. It was a while ago, but I have not seen or heard anything that would make me think they have changed their minds.

Quote from Valanarch

Quote from iamghost

i think wizards will reprint them both to keep them in t2 and to avoid the spike fetches are having right now. they already printed scrylands to help standard manabase, probably they will find something else that will be similar to shocks (if not shocks since they are ravnica-flavored). if they don't, they will rise in value.

Shocks aren't Ravnica flavored. What is Ravnica flavored about a Steam Vent or an Overgrown Tomb?

I would say they are clearly Ravnica flavored. The names may be a bit generic but Hallowed Fountain, Sacred Foundry, Temple Garden etc. all depict and reference places that exist on Ravnica.
Im pretty sure we wont see a Shock land that will reference to another plane ever.

Weren't the shocks keep generic on purpose? I vaguely remember reading that.

Quote from Galerion

Quote from Valanarch

Quote from iamghost

i think wizards will reprint them both to keep them in t2 and to avoid the spike fetches are having right now. they already printed scrylands to help standard manabase, probably they will find something else that will be similar to shocks (if not shocks since they are ravnica-flavored). if they don't, they will rise in value.

Shocks aren't Ravnica flavored. What is Ravnica flavored about a Steam Vent or an Overgrown Tomb?

I would say they are clearly Ravnica flavored. The names may be a bit generic but Hallowed Fountain, Sacred Foundry, Temple Garden etc. all depict and reference places that exist on Ravnica.
Im pretty sure we wont see a Shock land that will reference to another plane ever.

They "depict" Ravnica locations because they are IN Ravnica sets. Nothing stops a reprint of them in another place.

Shocks wont hit fetch prices for YEARS. They will however hit the 20-30 dollar range. Most shocks don't see play as more than a 2 or 3 of except in 2 color decks. Fetches generally see play in set form so they are in higher demand than shocks are anyways. Not to mention everyone owns sets of shocks and it is still being opened. Maybe in 5 years shocks will be 50+ but not before then. Also wizards most likely wont reprint them any time soon. They JUST reprinted them. Asking for them to be printed AGAIN is just being greedy. "Omg they are rotating, its gonna spike! REPRINT!"

I check in on this thread a few times a day, but rarely comment. I just have one question in mind at the moment. Would it help to keep prices in check if Wizards adopted an established reprint policy for most "staple" cards? Say they guarantee there will be another print run of such cards on an X year cycle either in a Standard or MM style set. Would this help fix the market?

In terms of flavor, the shocks were thematic to Ravnica. The story follows that there are 10 guilds for all the 2-pair colour combinations. Each guild had a certain theme/role in society, which can also be seen from the cards (Boros were police, Azorius were law mages (like judges), Simic were biologists, Izzet were engineers, etc.). For those lands, they tried to encompass something that made sense thematically for the guild. Breeding Pool as a scene makes a lot of sense for them, since they're biologists, or Steam Vents thematically reminds me of engineering work. To put shocks into another set kind of ruins that lore. But the lore itself sort of sucks, the books were meh and they've since stopped them cause they got to a point where they were awful. At least the Ravnica books were decent, not like the Chandra/Gideon book, or the Tezzeret book, those two are just awful.

It is only in your mind that reprinting a Temple Garden in a non rav set would ruin the lore. A temple with a garden is generic and could take place in any setting. You imagine steam vents as being tied to izzet engineering but it could just as easily be a hotsprings with nearby volcanic activity or some such thing. Just because it has thus far been on Ravnica doesn't mean it needs to be. As opposed to something like Urborg or Academy Ruins which reference specific places.

Quote from rackham89

It is only in your mind that reprinting a Temple Garden in a non rav set would ruin the lore. A temple with a garden is generic and could take place in any setting. You imagine steam vents as being tied to izzet engineering but it could just as easily be a hotsprings with nearby volcanic activity or some such thing. Just because it has thus far been on Ravnica doesn't mean it needs to be. As opposed to something like Urborg or Academy Ruins which reference specific places.

I think it doesnt matter what could be.
Wizards didnt wanted to reprint them in a random set. They waited until we returned to Ravnica so Wizards probably also thinks that these are tied to Ravnica.

Shocks won't hit fetch prices unless the player base grows like it did from Zendikar to now. The problem with fetches is that there simply aren't very many of them given the size of the player base, and virtually every deck needs them. It's a perfect storm of suck.