I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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Besides Seismic Shudder, how does this deck deals with a Silhana Ledgewalker (probably with an Armadillo Cloak or something like that)
Sometimes UR will lose to that, but they can also just find Capsize and bounce the aura, block with Mulldrifters, counter the aura, gain life from Glimmerpost long enough to win with Crusher or Thunder, etc.
Basically, Hexproof isn't a real deck right now, so most UR builds aren't going to be tuned to beat it (As opposed to having the specific hate against, say, Infect). But the general ways of dealing with untargetable creatures: Seismic Shudder; permission; blockers; recurring life gain; disrupting auras. Generally, UR Post doesn't have to answer every single threat; you can just slow them down enough to stall until the end game at which point you make the game unwinnable for people who are unfortunate enough to have forests in their deck, by repeatedly gaining life with Glimmerpost and things like that.
In looking at a bunch of U/R lists, I'm seeing many people running Preordain over Ponder and Brainstorm. Can anyone explain the reasoning behind this? Is the scry better than the extra card and layering of brainstorm/ponder?
Also, I'm working on my U/R deck, and I'm having trouble with the Mono-Black Control (Rats) matchup - it seems that my deck is too slow, and they are able to force discards far too easily. I'm not sure if I have enough card-draw, or what I can do to better fight this matchup. Any comments, with regard to this matchup or in general, would be appreciated.
Also, I tried to get my deck to arrange itself into three columns, but was unable to figure it out. If anyone could let me know how to do this, that would be awesome. Thanks for your help!
its funny you say MBC is a tough match because as an MBC player I've always found post to be a hard win despite having so many answers... over two days of dailies IzzetPost vs MBC is at an overall record of 13-4
Play Think Twice and another Deep Analysis. They give MBC fits.
Brainstorm is generally bad without a shuffle effect. Being instant and having the shuffle synergy makes it a natural partner to Teachings. The Preordain/Ponder argument is ancient, but I hold that generally, Ponder is better for combo decks (Since it's more likely to consistently find a specific card) whereas Preordain is better for control decks (Since the option to bottom one card and top the other is generally very good compared to keeping two mediocre cards and a good one with Ponder).
MBC: If you need to "tune" this deck against MBC, you have some serious problems. Almost any successful list will do reasonably against MBC; MBC basically isn't fast enough to stop you from getting to six mana, and it doesn't really have the tools to stop you from doing broken stuff with Capsize (Short of Duress, of course). Almost any of your endgame cards will be backbreaking for MBC, so even if they get your Capsize, you have other things you can hit them with. Mnemonic Wall (To get back Duressed spells) and Think Twice are all-stars.
Goblins: Invest in sweepers like Seismic Shudder, card advantage removal like Firebolt, and shoot the sledder first! I know the 3/3 for 2 with a drawback looks like the biggest threat, but no, shoot the sledder first. Hydroblast is an all-star here - it's Counterspell and Vindicate rolled into one, after all. You want cheap removal to just survive the early game until you can start abusing Capsize, playing creatures that outclass theirs defensively (Like Sea Gate Oracle) and just laughing at everything they do.
Faeries: This is a crappy match-up. Faeries might look like a fair deck, but it isn't. Then again neither is post. Pyroblast rules the day here, since it just outclasses every card in their deck. If they're the more aggressive version, sweepers are good. Instants in general (And Teachings-based builds) are good, because faeries has more trouble against draw-go decks, since that's more like an actual mirror for them. Negate, Dispel and other narrow cards can help too, as can instant-speed threats (Which are typically exotic card choices). Spells with flashback, especially Firebolt, are also very good - countering one half of a flashback spell isn't remotely as good as countering a whole card. Keep in mind, you have big, ridiculous spells that tend to win the game, and they generally don't. So being able to actually resolve something on your main phase is typically going to be better for you; the best thing they can resolve is Mulldrifter or Spire Golem, while the best stuff you can resolve is Capsize, Ulamog's Crusher and Rolling Thunder.
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It takes a LOT of testing to tune this kind of deck correctly. Since it pretty much wants to draw most of itself in any one game, one-ofs, two-ofs and three-ofs are very important and the numbers can be very sensitive, so I try not to make blanket statements. Skred IS a good idea.
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MBC: If you need to "tune" this deck against MBC, you have some serious problems. Almost any successful list will do reasonably against MBC; MBC basically isn't fast enough to stop you from getting to six mana, and it doesn't really have the tools to stop you from doing broken stuff with Capsize (Short of Duress, of course). Almost any of your endgame cards will be backbreaking for MBC, so even if they get your Capsize, you have other things you can hit them with. Mnemonic Wall (To get back Duressed spells) and Think Twice are all-stars.
Goblins: Invest in sweepers like Seismic Shudder, card advantage removal like Firebolt, and shoot the sledder first! I know the 3/3 for 2 with a drawback looks like the biggest threat, but no, shoot the sledder first. Hydroblast is an all-star here - it's Counterspell and Vindicate rolled into one, after all. You want cheap removal to just survive the early game until you can start abusing Capsize, playing creatures that outclass theirs defensively (Like Sea Gate Oracle) and just laughing at everything they do.
Faeries: This is a crappy match-up. Faeries might look like a fair deck, but it isn't. Then again neither is post. Pyroblast rules the day here, since it just outclasses every card in their deck. If they're the more aggressive version, sweepers are good. Instants in general (And Teachings-based builds) are good, because faeries has more trouble against draw-go decks, since that's more like an actual mirror for them. Negate, Dispel and other narrow cards can help too, as can instant-speed threats (Which are typically exotic card choices). Spells with flashback, especially Firebolt, are also very good - countering one half of a flashback spell isn't remotely as good as countering a whole card. Keep in mind, you have big, ridiculous spells that tend to win the game, and they generally don't. So being able to actually resolve something on your main phase is typically going to be better for you; the best thing they can resolve is Mulldrifter or Spire Golem, while the best stuff you can resolve is Capsize, Ulamog's Crusher and Rolling Thunder.
@ accumulated knowlege -- I don't like it, because it turns on opposing knowledges. Ponder, mulldrifter, and in my build sea gate oracle are more than enough. You guys should consider testing sea gate. It blocks a lot of problematic creatures in the format, and it's a fine draw spell in the mirror. It's kind of like a mini muldrifter, so you get mulldrifters 5-7 or whatever.
I've never lost to MBC with this deck. It can't really deal with counterspells, and you can always just pitch land to their discard. Duress is pretty horrible against us (as it doesn't hit post which is our best card), and they seem to always board it in for some reason. They also board LD, which isn't a good plan either. Basically, if they are competent, and they have a good list, it's a problem -- but I've played against probably 80% suboptimal lists so far.
However, I am really not sure about some of the numbers. I used to run a lot more permission (to the point where I had 4 Rune Snags). I'm not satisfied with the sideboard, I really want to put some Electrostatic Bolt, Shattering Pulse and at least one Hindering Touch in there in case an affinity or storm deck shows up. I'm running snow-basics because sometimes I feel like using Skred, but I'm really uncertain whether or not it's not really suboptimal.
seems like too much permission to me. With teachings, you don't need a glut of counters. 4-5 counters is really enough preboard. Postboard you have blasts, so that's fairly solid. Two capsize isn't needed either. Again, with filtering and teachings, you can always find capsize when you need it, and the double capsize draw seems pretty miserable.
I am inclined to disagree with UR Post having issues with Faeries. I have found in every game against Faeries, if you can keep up your tempo while knocking out their threats, the normally heavy burn main deck versions are able to have a favorable advantage game one against Faeries.
I find it much harder to keep up in Game 2, mind, but that is just what I've seen. Their addition of pro-red creatures is the main concern, as is being able to resolve your own win condition when they bring in more permission spells.
I've been having issues against MUC or the mirror though (mirror with heavy permission). In these cases, I find myself struggling to resolve anything, especially in MUC. Any thoughts on that?
I am inclined to disagree with UR Post having issues with Faeries. I have found in every game against Faeries, if you can keep up your tempo while knocking out their threats, the normally heavy burn main deck versions are able to have a favorable advantage game one against Faeries.
I find it much harder to keep up in Game 2, mind, but that is just what I've seen. Their addition of pro-red creatures is the main concern, as is being able to resolve your own win condition when they bring in more permission spells.
I've been having issues against MUC or the mirror though (mirror with heavy permission). In these cases, I find myself struggling to resolve anything, especially in MUC. Any thoughts on that?
Frankly, I haven't had a ton of trouble with MUC. The only decks I have trouble with are storm and infect, just because they're so fast we can't really interact with them well. Any slow, long control mirror will be won by your play and your card choices...when played well, this deck should just destroy a deck like MUC, because we have similar plans, only we get to 100 mana and have insane lategame cards that hit for 30 damage and they have a bunch of 2/4s we kill for one mana.
Certainly, if they have a million counters we can never win, but you just need to learn how to play around counters. You need to be able to put them on a counter if they have it, and put them on blanks if they are on blanks. That's the real issue with the matchup.
So what changes would you suggest? I was thinking about cutting a Counterspell, Prohibit and Capsize each, moving the two flame slashes and a firebolt main and adding one Electrostatic Bolt and two Shattering Pulse to the sideboard.
So far it's ran pretty well. I've played a few games, and I think my record is only two or three games lost, out of six or seven.
The second Capsize is a placeholder until I can find the cards I need. I used to think that having only one was sorta dumb, but after tutoring for one, then drawing the other, I'm going to cut it down to one.
Broken Amibitions is a replacement for Condescend until I can find the latter.
No sideboard as of yet; still working out how to play the deck efficiently before I do that, then I'll probably try a daily.
I'm going to play this in paper, so i want to have an nice idea from what should i add or remove. I played against an Monoblack discard (easy win) and an Infect (easy lose hahaha).
Returned to MTGO, playing pauper exclusively (with the odd draft for fun with winnings). Very quickly fell in love with this deck and have been practicing it against every person/deck I can find for almost 2 months now. But I need some help with the Affinity matchup, here's my list:
I'm fairly happy with the deck, but some concerns/questions I have are:
1. Manabase - Considering -2 Evolving Wilds +1 Izzet Boilerworks. I want 24 lands to hit every land-drop early, but Izzet gives 2 colours and another land drop, while Evolving gives 1 and thins the deck.
2. Sideboard - I need something to replace the Negates I think, the matches I want them a Pyroblast will do much better. Also I have trouble with Infect and Affinity, in that order. Infect is just hoping I draw enough removal to win, but Affinity I think I need SB help.
Should I be siding in Earth Rifts (drop their mana/artifact count) and Pyroblast (stop them reloading their hands) with my Ancient Grudges, and what to take out? I've been removing Condescend and Serrated Arrows, as I feel both are too slow (arrows needs at least 2 turns to kill their worst creature, condescend you need to get a lucky X=1 early or it does nothing). Honestly it seems to be a case of "did I draw Grudge + Prism with Flame Slash backup and he hasn't nut drawed?" and I have no idea if the Earth Rifts are fast/good enough or not. I had an Affinity player rage at me for using Earth Rift vs him and destroying his greedy 1 land keep, saying it was terrible vs Affinity.
I'm not a full time IzzetPost player, but I'd imagine earth rift as a sideboard choice against Affinity would be a bit too slow
That's what I was thinking. I might cut the 2 Negates in my sideboard for another Ancient Grudge and perhaps a Shattering Pulse (for the final nail in the coffin). I think with 4 Flame Slash and 3 (possibly 6) Ancient Grudge the matchup should go much smoother, then I just have the problem of 'did infect god draw?'
Thoughts/advice on what people sideboard out vs Affinity is still much appreciated.
Affinity nowadays plays a bunch of metalcraft durdles that aren't artefacts and don't die to Grudge. You want hydroblasts to deal with Atog, because Atog is a gigantic issue, but in many ways the build to beat Affinity decks is still kind of an unsolved problem. Gorilla Shaman is probably still good but you have to get it going early.
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Hydroblast! Why didn't I think of that, it's perfect. No more trading 2 artifacts for a Flame Slash just to stall their Atog swing/fling finisher. Thankyou very much!
Someone have already tested Dream Cache instead of Compulsive Research?
And how about Feldon's Cane (in Chronicles is common) to shuffle everything back to the library? If it's a good choise Trinket Mage + Feldon's Cane is interesting...
And I really don't think Dream Cache is better than Compulsive; putting cards back on top or bottom is a lot worse than discarding two or a land. Remember, Dream Cache doesn't let you put one on top and one on bottom; even if it did, it wouldn't be card advantage at all.
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If you could make changes to the deck for PAPER pauper, what would they be?
is there a variant using frantic search (is that card banned in paper?)
and high tide/rewind?
im keen to hear everyones thoughts on any other cards that could possibly make an inclusion, or cards you deem would be an auto inclusion in paper format.
Paper pauper isn't a real format; it isn't sanctioned and there is no banned list. So it depends entirely on what your play group chooses to allow.
Rewind is legal in MTGO Pauper and sees no play. There are no cards that are banned or which would be legal in paper that I would include in the Cloudpost deck, but without a specific banlist, the paper metagame is obviously broken because Hymn to Tourach and Sinkhole are in the format.
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How are you supposed to beat infect with this deck? I lost a game where I drew four bolts, mnemonic walled a bolt back, bolted again, and countered two spells, along with having that wall and a Mulldrifter to block. He got double rancor on a Myr in the end.
I boarded in a dispel, manaleak, negate, 2 seismic shudders, and a curfew(Threw it in there just to see if it worked well enough against infect to have a spot. Didn't draw it, so I have no clue)
Sometimes UR will lose to that, but they can also just find Capsize and bounce the aura, block with Mulldrifters, counter the aura, gain life from Glimmerpost long enough to win with Crusher or Thunder, etc.
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Also, I'm working on my U/R deck, and I'm having trouble with the Mono-Black Control (Rats) matchup - it seems that my deck is too slow, and they are able to force discards far too easily. I'm not sure if I have enough card-draw, or what I can do to better fight this matchup. Any comments, with regard to this matchup or in general, would be appreciated.
Also, I tried to get my deck to arrange itself into three columns, but was unable to figure it out. If anyone could let me know how to do this, that would be awesome. Thanks for your help!
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
8 Island
5 Mountain
2 Evolving Wilds
Creatures
1 Mnemonic Wall
4 Mulldrifter
1 Ulamog's Crusher
Artifacts
4 Prophetic Prism
Spells
4 Brainstorm
1 Capsize
2 Condescend
3 Counterspell
1 Echoing Truth
1 Into the Roil
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Mystical Teachings
4 Rune Snag
1 Deep Analysis
3 Flame Slash
1 Rolling Thunder
2 Stone Rain
2 Electrostatic Bolt
2 Hindering Touch
3 Hydroblast
3 Pyroblast
2 Seismic Shudder
2 Shattering Pulse
1 Stone Rain
Deck List:
BMBCB
UBUB Control/TeachingsBU
Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
Classic
BPoxB
Legacy
GB Eva Depths (Primer By Me) BG
Monthly Academy Showcase!
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Brainstorm is generally bad without a shuffle effect. Being instant and having the shuffle synergy makes it a natural partner to Teachings. The Preordain/Ponder argument is ancient, but I hold that generally, Ponder is better for combo decks (Since it's more likely to consistently find a specific card) whereas Preordain is better for control decks (Since the option to bottom one card and top the other is generally very good compared to keeping two mediocre cards and a good one with Ponder).
Goblins: Invest in sweepers like Seismic Shudder, card advantage removal like Firebolt, and shoot the sledder first! I know the 3/3 for 2 with a drawback looks like the biggest threat, but no, shoot the sledder first. Hydroblast is an all-star here - it's Counterspell and Vindicate rolled into one, after all. You want cheap removal to just survive the early game until you can start abusing Capsize, playing creatures that outclass theirs defensively (Like Sea Gate Oracle) and just laughing at everything they do.
Faeries: This is a crappy match-up. Faeries might look like a fair deck, but it isn't. Then again neither is post. Pyroblast rules the day here, since it just outclasses every card in their deck. If they're the more aggressive version, sweepers are good. Instants in general (And Teachings-based builds) are good, because faeries has more trouble against draw-go decks, since that's more like an actual mirror for them. Negate, Dispel and other narrow cards can help too, as can instant-speed threats (Which are typically exotic card choices). Spells with flashback, especially Firebolt, are also very good - countering one half of a flashback spell isn't remotely as good as countering a whole card. Keep in mind, you have big, ridiculous spells that tend to win the game, and they generally don't. So being able to actually resolve something on your main phase is typically going to be better for you; the best thing they can resolve is Mulldrifter or Spire Golem, while the best stuff you can resolve is Capsize, Ulamog's Crusher and Rolling Thunder.
@ accumulated knowlege -- I don't like it, because it turns on opposing knowledges. Ponder, mulldrifter, and in my build sea gate oracle are more than enough. You guys should consider testing sea gate. It blocks a lot of problematic creatures in the format, and it's a fine draw spell in the mirror. It's kind of like a mini muldrifter, so you get mulldrifters 5-7 or whatever.
I've never lost to MBC with this deck. It can't really deal with counterspells, and you can always just pitch land to their discard. Duress is pretty horrible against us (as it doesn't hit post which is our best card), and they seem to always board it in for some reason. They also board LD, which isn't a good plan either. Basically, if they are competent, and they have a good list, it's a problem -- but I've played against probably 80% suboptimal lists so far.
Also, staggershock is a sweet card
seems like too much permission to me. With teachings, you don't need a glut of counters. 4-5 counters is really enough preboard. Postboard you have blasts, so that's fairly solid. Two capsize isn't needed either. Again, with filtering and teachings, you can always find capsize when you need it, and the double capsize draw seems pretty miserable.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
I find it much harder to keep up in Game 2, mind, but that is just what I've seen. Their addition of pro-red creatures is the main concern, as is being able to resolve your own win condition when they bring in more permission spells.
I've been having issues against MUC or the mirror though (mirror with heavy permission). In these cases, I find myself struggling to resolve anything, especially in MUC. Any thoughts on that?
Frankly, I haven't had a ton of trouble with MUC. The only decks I have trouble with are storm and infect, just because they're so fast we can't really interact with them well. Any slow, long control mirror will be won by your play and your card choices...when played well, this deck should just destroy a deck like MUC, because we have similar plans, only we get to 100 mana and have insane lategame cards that hit for 30 damage and they have a bunch of 2/4s we kill for one mana.
Certainly, if they have a million counters we can never win, but you just need to learn how to play around counters. You need to be able to put them on a counter if they have it, and put them on blanks if they are on blanks. That's the real issue with the matchup.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
I'll send you a PM with my list.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
6 Mountain
7 Island
Sorceries:
4 Ponder
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Shock
2 Compulsive Reasearch
1 Rolling Thunder
4 Prophetic Prism
Creatures:
3 Sea Gate Oracle
2 Mulldrifter
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Ulamog's Crusher
Instants:
2 Incinerate
4 Rune Snag
1 Negate
2 Capsize
3 Mystical Teachings
2 Broken Ambitions
2 Repeal
So far it's ran pretty well. I've played a few games, and I think my record is only two or three games lost, out of six or seven.
The second Capsize is a placeholder until I can find the cards I need. I used to think that having only one was sorta dumb, but after tutoring for one, then drawing the other, I'm going to cut it down to one.
Broken Amibitions is a replacement for Condescend until I can find the latter.
No sideboard as of yet; still working out how to play the deck efficiently before I do that, then I'll probably try a daily.
BRG [T2] Jund Midrange GRB
W [Modern] Mono-White Control W
4 Glimmerpost
7 Island
1 Izzet Boilerworks
5 Mountain
2 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Mnemonic Wall
2 Mulldrifter
2 Steamcore Weird
1 Ulamog's Crusher
Spells
1 Capsize
4 Compulsive Research
2 Condescend
1 Counterspell
1 Deep Analysis
3 Flame Slash
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
1 Mysteries of Deep
2 Mystical Teachings
1 Negate
4 Preordain
1 Rolling Thunder
1 Staggershock
3 Prophetic Prism
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Earth Rift
1 Negate
3 Pyroblast
2 Seismic Shudder
1 Shattering Pulse
4 Stone Rain
I'm going to play this in paper, so i want to have an nice idea from what should i add or remove. I played against an Monoblack discard (easy win) and an Infect (easy lose hahaha).
8 Island
7 Mountain
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Evolving Wilds
Removal
2 Firebolt
4 Flame Slash
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Serrated Arrows
Counters
2 Prohibit
2 Condescend
4 Preordain
4 Prophetic Prism
1 Echoing Truth
2 Compulsive Research
1 Ghostly Flicker
1 Rolling Thunder
1 Capsize
Creatures
2 Sea Gate Oracle
4 Mulldrifter
1 Ulamog's Crusher
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Earth Rift
3 Hydroblast
3 Pyroblast
2 Seismic Shudder
2 Negate
1. Manabase - Considering -2 Evolving Wilds +1 Izzet Boilerworks. I want 24 lands to hit every land-drop early, but Izzet gives 2 colours and another land drop, while Evolving gives 1 and thins the deck.
2. Sideboard - I need something to replace the Negates I think, the matches I want them a Pyroblast will do much better. Also I have trouble with Infect and Affinity, in that order. Infect is just hoping I draw enough removal to win, but Affinity I think I need SB help.
Should I be siding in Earth Rifts (drop their mana/artifact count) and Pyroblast (stop them reloading their hands) with my Ancient Grudges, and what to take out? I've been removing Condescend and Serrated Arrows, as I feel both are too slow (arrows needs at least 2 turns to kill their worst creature, condescend you need to get a lucky X=1 early or it does nothing). Honestly it seems to be a case of "did I draw Grudge + Prism with Flame Slash backup and he hasn't nut drawed?" and I have no idea if the Earth Rifts are fast/good enough or not. I had an Affinity player rage at me for using Earth Rift vs him and destroying his greedy 1 land keep, saying it was terrible vs Affinity.
Deck List:
BMBCB
UBUB Control/TeachingsBU
Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
Classic
BPoxB
Legacy
GB Eva Depths (Primer By Me) BG
Monthly Academy Showcase!
An Introduction to Competitive Pauper! *Updated*
Pauper Meta Analysis & What Wizards Left Out!
Found at MTGO Academy!! Same Great Series, Same Great Content, Great New Home!! (yes that is me shamelessly trolling for more readers :))
Check me out on Twitter & Get a little MTGO Therapy
That's what I was thinking. I might cut the 2 Negates in my sideboard for another Ancient Grudge and perhaps a Shattering Pulse (for the final nail in the coffin). I think with 4 Flame Slash and 3 (possibly 6) Ancient Grudge the matchup should go much smoother, then I just have the problem of 'did infect god draw?'
Thoughts/advice on what people sideboard out vs Affinity is still much appreciated.
And how about Feldon's Cane (in Chronicles is common) to shuffle everything back to the library? If it's a good choise Trinket Mage + Feldon's Cane is interesting...
And I really don't think Dream Cache is better than Compulsive; putting cards back on top or bottom is a lot worse than discarding two or a land. Remember, Dream Cache doesn't let you put one on top and one on bottom; even if it did, it wouldn't be card advantage at all.
is there a variant using frantic search (is that card banned in paper?)
and high tide/rewind?
im keen to hear everyones thoughts on any other cards that could possibly make an inclusion, or cards you deem would be an auto inclusion in paper format.
Rewind is legal in MTGO Pauper and sees no play. There are no cards that are banned or which would be legal in paper that I would include in the Cloudpost deck, but without a specific banlist, the paper metagame is obviously broken because Hymn to Tourach and Sinkhole are in the format.
I boarded in a dispel, manaleak, negate, 2 seismic shudders, and a curfew(Threw it in there just to see if it worked well enough against infect to have a spot. Didn't draw it, so I have no clue)
Trade thread!
*Needs updating, got retired and am figuring out how to fix that problem